Martial arts worthy of "shengong" status.

[endo]

Deun Yu - Kowtow Sun Gung

i'll one-up you here:

Hui Juk - lucky bastard at the right place at the right time Sun Gung

this skill just can't be taught...

[Doc Kwok]

What do you mean? It demonstrated the same kind of auto-protected that 9 Yang had. Don't have time to go into detail right now (at work), but here is the passage that describes this:

空见大
师调匀了一下呼吸，苦笑道：‘只盼再挨两拳，便……便化解了这场劫数。’我听他说话
气息不属，突然心念一动：‘看来他运起“金刚不坏体”神功之时，不能说话，我何不引
他说话，突然一拳打出。’便道：‘倘若我在一十三拳内打伤了你，你保得定我师父定会
来见我么？’他道：‘他亲口跟我说过的……’就在此时，我不等他一句话说完，呼的一
拳便击向他小腹。这一拳去势既快，落拳又低，要令他来不及发动护体神功。“哪知道佛
门神功，随心而起，我的拳劲刚触到他小腹，他神功便已布满全身。我但觉天旋地转，心
肺欲裂，腾腾腾连退七八步，背心在一株大树上一靠，这才站住。

随心而起 is the same kind of auto protect that 9 Yang is known for.

随心而起 means that you still need to have the intention in mind for it to work, so it couldn't be considered 'auto-protect'. That was why Kong Jian got killed - Xie Xun caught him completely off-guard, so he had no time to even think about protecting himself.

As for how strong it was compared to 9 Yang - ZWJ could still talk and laugh while being hit, while KJ had to immediately stop talking at XX's first sneak attack. KJ was also clearly in pain and winded when he took hits on the abdomen, while ZWJ acted like it didn't hurt at all when he was struck (which included hits on the abdomen, as well as on a vital point and from both sides). Also, as soon as XX started using the 7-injury fists, KJ had to repel the force away from himself in order to survive, while ZWJ simply absorbed it (the last few blows from Zong Weixia don't count, since the repulsion was the result of ZWJ sending 9 Yang into his body to heal him, and not his own force being reflected back).

This isn't conclusive though - the Kong Tong elders we saw were clearly much, much weaker than Xie Xun. I do have trouble picturing ZWJ repeating his performance in the same way with XX throwing the punches.

[PJ]

随心而起 means that you still need to have the intention in mind for it to work, so it couldn't be considered 'auto-protect'. That was why Kong Jian got killed - Xie Xun caught him completely off-guard, so he had no time to even think about protecting himself.

The exact same thing is true for 9 Yang Shen Gong. That's how Zhang Wuji got struck down by the Xuanming Elders on Wudang.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Zi Xia Shen Gong!

The only internal art that was proven to be able to transmit inner energy thru the air!

YES! I was about to point that out. Quite possibly the 'weakest' of the Shengong, and yet capable of doing something which nothing and no one else has demonstrated....

[Doc Kwok]

The exact same thing is true for 9 Yang Shen Gong. That's how Zhang Wuji got struck down by the Xuanming Elders on Wudang.

I don't think 9 yang would have let him just stand there and take their hits, automatic or not. In any case, he did recover fully in an hour and reduced both elders' palm power to less than 20% of their usual strength through the brief contact with his 9 yang.

It does seems that his 9 yang is vulnerable to diversion tactics. In that exchange, he did consciously summon 9 yang to deal with the first pair of palms, but got hit elsewhere by the second while his inner strength was concentrated on dealing with the first (Miejie and Zhou Zhirou basically did the same as well). However, this is not a good example to show whether 9 yang can 'auto-protect' because ZWJ was imposing his conscious will over 9 yang at that point, which presumably would override what it would have done automatically.

ZWJ: Disengage automatic pilot.
9 Yang: Roger, you now have control.
...
BANG!

It is rather hard to find good examples for or against though, since ZWJ got so good that it was basically impossible to take him completely by surprise. How about this though:

不料張無忌心意不動，九陽神功自然護體，變招快極，但饒是如此，背上衣衫也已給劃破了兩條長縫 ，實是險極。

This was from when he was bending over the leader of Hua Shan, and the two leaders of the Kun Lun sect attacked him silently from behind. In this case, it is explicitly stated that he did not even think about doing anything, but the 9 yang protected him anyway. Though in this case, it acted more like an 'automatic warning system' rather than like 'automatic armour'. Just as well though - 9 yang doesn't seem to work well against sharp weapons.

[flamer]

Yea 随心而起 is not quite the same as AUTO PROTECT of 9 Yang.

Only times his auto protect didn't work was when his main power was diverted elsewhere or he switched it off himself, or its the HEAVENLY SWORD.

[PJ]

Only times his auto protect didn't work was when his main power was diverted elsewhere or he switched it off himself, or its the HEAVENLY SWORD.

Same thing can be said about Reverend Kongjian's Diamond Body Invulnerability.

[flamer]

Same thing can be said about Reverend Kongjian's Diamond Body Invulnerability.

But his case is different. He HAD to "switch off" because he was speaking or losing concentration. 9 Yang will still be on even if ZWJ is speaking or losing concentrating.

[PJ]

But his case is different. He HAD to "switch off" because he was speaking or losing concentration. 9 Yang will still be on even if ZWJ is speaking or losing concentrating.

I attribute this more to the internal energy quantity rather than the internal energy type. It seems that when you have a high abundance of internal energy, you can talk while consuming internal energy; otherwise you have to keep silent. That is to say, if Kongjian had Zhang Wuji's amount of internal energy, he would also be able to talk while using DBI.

Kongjian probably just had a fraction of Zhang Wuji's internal energy.

[sarakoth]

I think TSTL's BGLTWWDZG's (did i spell that right) other worldliness deserves a mention. What other martial art literally reverses aging?

[flamer]

I attribute this more to the internal energy quantity rather than the internal energy type. It seems that when you have a high abundance of internal energy, you can talk while consuming internal energy; otherwise you have to keep silent. That is to say, if Kongjian had Zhang Wuji's amount of internal energy, he would also be able to talk while using DBI.

Kongjian probably just had a fraction of Zhang Wuji's internal energy.

I actually thought the "I can't talk" and "not so automatic" business were limitations of Diamond Body. 9 Yang is just a way more powerful and useful skill than Diamond Body. Doing what the Diamond Body does and more.

[ChanceEncounter]

Yea 随心而起 is not quite the same as AUTO PROTECT of 9 Yang.

Only times his auto protect didn't work was when his main power was diverted elsewhere or he switched it off himself, or its the HEAVENLY SWORD.

The "auto protect" is only where he had qi. When he had his qi diverted elsewhere, it specifically mentioned that since his qi was not there to protect him, that part of his body was vulnerable.

So insofar as it's 'automatic,' it's also a function of how much qi he has and how much he can afford to distribute it over his body. If he had Xu Zhu or Sweeper Monk level of qi, he would probably be able to engage in great level foes and still have enough left over to autoprotect.

[flamer]

The "auto protect" is only where he had qi. When he had his qi diverted elsewhere, it specifically mentioned that since his qi was not there to protect him, that part of his body was vulnerable.

So insofar as it's 'automatic,' it's also a function of how much qi he has and how much he can afford to distribute it over his body. If he had Xu Zhu or Sweeper Monk level of qi, he would probably be able to engage in great level foes and still have enough left over to autoprotect.

Yep I did mention that in:

Only times his auto protect didn't work was when his main power was diverted elsewhere or he switched it off himself, or its the HEAVENLY SWORD.

[ChanceEncounter]

Yep I did mention that in:

Only times his auto protect didn't work was when his main power was diverted elsewhere or he switched it off himself, or its the HEAVENLY SWORD.

Yes, you claimed that unless it was diverted elsewhere, it's automatic.

I made a small clarification that this wasn't true. He had to have qi flowing at that part of the body for his autoprotect to work. So, at some level, it still requires some conscious activity.

[flamer]

Yes, you claimed that unless it was diverted elsewhere, it's automatic.

I made a small clarification that this wasn't true. He had to have qi flowing at that part of the body for his autoprotect to work. So, at some level, it still requires some conscious activity.

Hmm let me ponder that over...

If his internal energy is not diverted elsewhere, isnt it flowing around his body? Thus automatic protection is on as long as his energy is not diverted?

[K2Grey]

I'm getting the impression that Kong Jian needs to consciously move his energy around in his body to block attacks, whereas Zhang Wuji's 9 Yang automatically moves inner power around for defensive purposes, as long as there is enough available energy to do so e.g. if he is using all his power to fight someone, and someone attacks him from the back, it will not block that attack since there is nothing to block with. But under normal circumstances, if he is hit on the back, the strike will be protected against.

[flamer]

I'm getting the impression that Kong Jian needs to consciously move his energy around in his body to block attacks, whereas Zhang Wuji's 9 Yang automatically moves inner power around for defensive purposes, as long as there is enough available energy to do so e.g. if he is using all his power to fight someone, and someone attacks him from the back, it will not block that attack since there is nothing to block with. But under normal circumstances, if he is hit on the back, the strike will be protected against.

Yea thats the feeling I get too. He will be protected even if he was completely unaware.

[yittz]

Kong Dong try to ambush ZWJ when he was talking, but bang 9Yang auto protect deflected it.

[ChanceEncounter]

Hmm let me ponder that over...

If his internal energy is not diverted elsewhere, isnt it flowing around his body? Thus automatic protection is on as long as his energy is not diverted?

For most normal circumstances, yes.

[CFT]

I attribute this more to the internal energy quantity rather than the internal energy type. It seems that when you have a high abundance of internal energy, you can talk while consuming internal energy; otherwise you have to keep silent. That is to say, if Kongjian had Zhang Wuji's amount of internal energy, he would also be able to talk while using DBI.

Kongjian probably just had a fraction of Zhang Wuji's internal energy.

I think this is an incorrect assertion. I am pretty sure that it was stated that techniques like DBI relied on 'one breath of qi'. Talking disrupts the focusing or circulation of the qi and this leads to vulnerability in the technique.

Likewise, the masses were astounded when ZWJ was able to talk when he was exerting himself in an inner power contest/struggle. Even the Du monks who have comparable inner power attainment can't do it.

If we go over to the Gu Long universe, there was a character in the Lu Xiaofeng series, Huo Tianqing, who was able to talk when he used his inner power in a contest with Dugu Yihe. But this is contrary to what is deemed possible.