How *much* better was Dook Goo Kau Bai than the ROCH Greats?

[CC]

Actually, the term 'Great-Level-Martial-Arts' is something we made up in the forum isn't it?

Did JY ever narrate anything in LOCH/ROCH that said something along the lines that all the old and new greats had martial arts that were as good as each other?

Other than HYS saying XL18Z and Sad Palms were equally fierce? Thats not quite the same as saying they are overall equal in effectiveness.

[Dennis Chen]

I think Guo Jing and Yang Guo are very much 2 different sides to Wang Chongyang who while never shows up in the book, casts a long shadow on the Condor Trilogy.

However, unlike Guo Jing who ultimately (like WCY) lost his battle with outside forces (and died for it), Yang Guo was able to do what Wang was not. While Guo Jing was everything Wang Chongyang was, Yang Guo was everything WCY was not even though the basic outline of their stories in ROCH parallel one another to some extent.

If I were to apply the literary idea of doubling, I'd say that Yang Guo had at least matched Wang Chongyang, if not surpassed him. Not only in his personal life, but also his martial art.

By ROCH, the major story of Wang was his relationship with LCY. But unlike WCY, Yang Guo was able to consumate with his love; WCY had too much pride. That is the central story to both couples. Like WCY, Yang Guo became a hero but whereas WCY failed in many ways, YG was a success. The climax to their stories also mirror one another. WCY's last major act was to defeat Ouyang Feng and Yang Guo's was to defeat JLGS.

There's no question in my mind anymore that they were at least equal. I think there's much more to be revealed by this, but I'm at work.

NOTE: I know what I've written is a bit jumbled and imcomplete, but I'm not writing a term paper here.

[tape]

Admitting Yang Guo >> Wang Chongyang?!

I totally did not expect that from you.

[Ken Cheng]

If I were to apply the literary idea of doubling, I'd say that Yang Guo had at least matched Wang Chongyang, if not surpassed him. Not only in his personal life, but also his martial art.

By ROCH, the major story of Wang was his relationship with LCY. But unlike WCY, Yang Guo was able to consumate with his love; WCY had too much pride. That is the central story to both couples. Like WCY, Yang Guo became a hero but whereas WCY failed in many ways, YG was a success. The climax to their stories also mirror one another. WCY's last major act was to defeat Ouyang Feng and Yang Guo's was to defeat JLGS.

The difference is that the circumstances of Yeung Gor's relationship with Little Dragon Girl is that it was never, ever an adversarial relationship. That's not because Yeung Gor lacked pride (Are you kidding? This *is* Yeung Gor we're talking about), but the dynamics of the Yeung Gor/Little Dragon Girl relationship meant that they would never be in competition with each other.

The same wasn't true of Wong Chung Yeung and Lam Chiu Ying. From the day that they met, it was inevitable that their relationship would become adversarial. Given their abilities and egos, it could have gone no other way.

[pannonian]

The difference is that the circumstances of Yeung Gor's relationship with Little Dragon Girl is that it was never, ever an adversarial relationship. That's not because Yeung Gor lacked pride (Are you kidding? This *is* Yeung Gor we're talking about), but the dynamics of the Yeung Gor/Little Dragon Girl relationship meant that they would never be in competition with each other.

The same wasn't true of Wong Chung Yeung and Lam Chiu Ying. From the day that they met, it was inevitable that their relationship would become adversarial. Given their abilities and egos, it could have gone no other way.

Yang Guo was actually very yielding whenever the other side would show any signs of reciprocating. While this wasn't tested in his relationship with Xiao Longnu, it was seen in his relationship with Wang Chongyang. From the hated symbol of Quanzhen whose portrait Yang Guo spat on, Yang Guo eventually developed an understanding of the human weaknesses that drove Wang Chongyang and Lin Chaoying apart, as well as a respect for the qualities that made them giants. One of the main reasons why the Eagle Hero was so loved was because of how well Yang Guo connected with people emotionally. His IQ may have been high, but his EQ went through the roof.

[Dennis Chen]

Admitting Yang Guo >> Wang Chongyang?!

I totally did not expect that from you.

Well, more like Yang Guo >= Wang Chongyang.

But, yeah. I guess, like Yang Guo, at the age of 36, I'm not as enamoured by the "sound of my own voice" (so to speak) anymore.

It's also fun to see if I can make other people's ideas, even those that are different from my own, work in the context of the content. And if it does, it wouldn't make sense if I stubbornly hold on to my own ideas.

[pannonian]

One example of Yang Guo's lack of pride, for someone of his stature, can be seen in how he dealt with the Xishan Ghost whose ears he'd cut off. After a show of force made th Ghosts and the Shi Brothers submit to him, he turned his attention to the matter of the Ghost's concubines. The dispute was originally about the concubines, whom Yang Guo felt the Ghost had mistreated. The Ghost submitted to Yang Guo's wishes, and promised to leave the concubines, beating them if they didn't leave of their own accord. Yang Guo then realised the error of his original command, was momentarily at a loss about what to do, then sighed and made the Ghost promise to let the concubines decide for themselves what to do, rather than have a decision forced on them. The Xishan Ghosts, already impressed by his martial arts, were further impressed by his easygoingness.

[Trien Chieu]

I think DGKB is the best fighter of Jin Yong universe, perhap better than fighters from other authors too. He is much better than the greats, Kiu Fung, Gwok Jing, YG, GWM. He is at least 200% better than them. I think he is better than Huang Shang as Yeung Gor acknowledged his martial is better than the 9 Yin. I think he is also better than Sweeper Monk as Sweeper Monk wasn't that great after all. SM was killed by Murong Bo and other evil monk in DGSD. If it was DGKB, I don't think he would lose to Murong Bo and that evil monk.

I really like DGKB. He had such complex family background and his life is such a tragedy. I really like his first lover/wife (Maggie Siu), but hate his second lover. His sword play looks so good, I like it the best.

[Ken Cheng]

I think he is also better than Sweeper Monk as Sweeper Monk wasn't that great after all. SM was killed by Murong Bo and other evil monk in DGSD.

Only in the 1981 TVB adaptation. The Janitor Monk did, however, sustain a direct Hong Lung 28 Palms strike from Kiu Fung, which might have broken a few of the monk's ribs and caused him to spit blood.

Some believe, however, that Kiu Fung would not have been able to injure the Janitor Monk if the monk really didn't want to be injured. Supposedly, the monk wanted to see if Hong Lung 28 Palms was really all it was cracked up to be (the monk concluded that it was).

[kyss of the sword]

jin yong stated that DGKB had better swordskills then yang guo and better internal strength the LHC, so i always assumed that DGKB had LHC's sword skills with YG's internal strength. in short, he was flawless. he should have reached the same level as the greats at the end of roch when he was still in his forties.

[AnhHung]

I think he is also better than Sweeper Monk as Sweeper Monk wasn't that great after all. SM was killed by Murong Bo and other evil monk in DGSD. If it was DGKB, I don't think he would lose to Murong Bo and that evil monk.

I really like DGKB. He had such complex family background and his life is such a tragedy. I really like his first lover/wife (Maggie Siu), but hate his second lover. His sword play looks so good, I like it the best.

You are joking?