How did Feng Qingyang learn Dugu Sword?

[Ken Cheng]

LDJ can't happen without some bits of the Condor Trilogy. So in no circumstance can "Earth-2" contain LDJ without some bits of L/ROCH/HSDS. Thus Earth-2 cannot exist.

The only strain of the CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY that made it into DOMD was the oblique reference to Au Yeung Fung, which was so oblique, in fact, that you can interpret that as being the legendary West Poison...or a similar, but unrelated character.

Other than that, though, DOMD is completely dissociated from the CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY. If Gwok Jing, Yeung Gor, and Cheung Mo Gei (and their non-historical associates) did not exist, Wai Siu Bo's story would be affected very little (if indeed at all).

[Jeren of all Trades]

Ok...what about not focussing on the how but the when... Did he already learned it and used Dugu sword when he was in Wah Shang pai or did he learned it after he left Wah Shang. In the story, the headmaster of Shaolin and Mo Dong recognized LWC swords skills as being of FQY... so does that mean that while in Wah Shang Pai FQY already knew it and was known for it... if that is the case, would he have been kicked out or at least banned from using it since it is not a Wah Shang Pai sword skills? Knowing how strict each pai is about using/stealing other pai's martial arts. Would FQY considered to be a traitor of Wah Shang since he is well known for his dugu sword art. Or maybe since no one knew about the sword art, he might claimed it as a Wah Shang sword art...

[ChanceEncounter]

The only strain of the CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY that made it into DOMD was the oblique reference to Au Yeung Fung, which was so oblique, in fact, that you can interpret that as being the legendary West Poison...or a similar, but unrelated character.

Other than that, though, DOMD is completely dissociated from the CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY. If Gwok Jing, Yeung Gor, and Cheung Mo Gei (and their non-historical associates) did not exist, Wai Siu Bo's story would be affected very little (if indeed at all).

But you can't remove stories based on, "if they didn't exist, it would not affect their lives much." Such an extrapolation is beyond our understanding of real life historical figures, and we have infinitely more data to go off of than novels. Not to mention it's a logically incongruous line of thinking.

[jiang bao]

that was only to cover people's ears & eyes



if that was the case, then YG would certainly have learned far more than what he actually displayed to have learned. Either that, or his descedents are entirely ingenious inventers, considering that LHC's sword skill is actually superior to Yang Guo's.

YG was only about 36 at the end of ROCH, so he had plenty of time to develop his own kung fu. The elite masters tended to live into at least their 90's, so assuming YG died naturally of old age, he had over 50 years to study or perfect his kung fu. Also, assuming that he and XLN lived in isolation from society, he would have had lots of free time to concentrate on bettering his kung fu. It's not impossible that he built the foundation for the LWC version of DG9J.

Since DG9J doesn't really require great inner power, it's possible the art could be passed down generation to generation without losing effectiveness like most of the other arts, so YG may very well have originated the art.

To explain why LWC's version still credits DG9J, it's possible YG and his decendents felt like he/they owed a lot to this "obscure" swordmaster and by naming the technique DG9J, he could give some deserved attention/credit to him.

[PJ]

YG was only about 36 at the end of ROCH, so he had plenty of time to develop his own kung fu. The elite masters tended to live into at least their 90's, so assuming YG died naturally of old age, he had over 50 years to study or perfect his kung fu. Also, assuming that he and XLN lived in isolation from society, he would have had lots of free time to concentrate on bettering his kung fu. It's not impossible that he built the foundation for the LWC version of DG9J.

Since DG9J doesn't really require great inner power, it's possible the art could be passed down generation to generation without losing effectiveness like most of the other arts, so YG may very well have originated the art.

To explain why LWC's version still credits DG9J, it's possible YG and his decendents felt like he/they owed a lot to this "obscure" swordmaster and by naming the technique DG9J, he could give some deserved attention/credit to him.

Judging by what we saw of Yang Guo post-16 years, it seems he wasn't interested in swordplay any more.

[jiang bao]

He was drowning in melancholy. After he reunites with her and becomes a national hero by being instrumental in relieving the siege of Xiangyang and after he gets to be alone with XLN finally, it would not be crazy if his outlook on life changed. We've already seen that he is interested in creating his own style, so all that might lead him to work to create a new sword style is think back to what he saw in DGQB's cave and the various levels of swordsmanship he achieved, and challenge himself (YG) to reach those levels.

[PJ]

But Jin Yong himself proclaimed that Yang Guo's swordplay is inferior to Linghu Chong's. So Yang Guo couldn't have invented Dugu 9 Swords: at least, if we go by the author's intention.

[jiang bao]

I'd have to plead ignorance to that. Where exactly did JY say this? If it's in SOD, I must've missed or forgotten seeing it.

My own opinion is that JY himself didn't really know where he wanted to go with the FCY / YG / DGQB connection, so he kinda just didn't go there. I was just throwing out the YG as inventor thing out there as a possibility.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Judging by what we saw of Yang Guo post-16 years, it seems he wasn't interested in swordplay any more.

Yes, let me use a modified version of a rather 'hot' Chinese internet saying with regards to his lack of interest in swordplay:

Yang Guo thought that he was really NB, but in actuality, all he was doing was ZB, and, in being cocky and not bringing the heavy iron sword to fight JLGS, he proved himself to be a SB.

[PJ]

I'd have to plead ignorance to that. Where exactly did JY say this?

It was one of the 100 interview questions with Jin Yong

●楊過到底練成了獨孤劍法沒有？他的武功境界到底如何？（江彥肢）
金庸：有一部分因為獨孤求敗傳下來沒這麼完整，所以他的劍法沒有很強。但他的內力強過令狐沖，因為十六年在 山崖對著瀑布練習，內力甚強。

[jiang bao]

It does imply that YG's sword skills aren't as great as LHC's, since JY says "but" his inner power is better than LHC's, though his exact words don't necessarily preclude the possibility that YG or his descendants/pupils was responsible for at least partial development of DG9J. It sounds like JY is suggesting that there's an alternative, more complete version, of his sword manual around. Ah well, I don't know.

Maybe it was sewn into some magic pouch and swallowed by the 'condor' and permanently attaches to its stomache and when the 'condor' died, someone came across its remains and got the manual... lol.

[ChanceEncounter]

But Jin Yong himself proclaimed that Yang Guo's swordplay is inferior to Linghu Chong's. So Yang Guo couldn't have invented Dugu 9 Swords: at least, if we go by the author's intention.

I think it's fair to say that all of those questions are implied within the timeframe of the novel. Thus, it's possible that YG and LHC both improved dramatically as they left Jianghu, but obviously it was never written in the books.

I'm not saying it's likely that YG 'invented' DG9J, but it is one possible explanation.

[TuLongDao]

There are at least two Jin Yong continuity timelines, I think. Let's call them Earth-1 and Earth-2 (an homage for you DC Comics fans).

On Earth-1, this happened:

1. DGSD

2. LOCH

3. ROCH

4. HSDS

5. DOMD

On Earth-2, however, something like this happened:

1. DGSD

2. SPW

3. DOMD

i think that DGSG is after the condor trilogy because in Chapter 2 of DGSG, The Jade Cliff under moonlight, when Duan Yu entered "Blessed Reading Ground" there was a note that said and i quote from wuxiapedia, [under "Beggar Clan" was a note: "Missing 18 Dragon Subduing Palms"], the 18 dragon subduing palms was the pinnacle of external energy created by hong qi gong of the beggar clan, so how can xiao feng learned it if DGSG took place before the condor trilogy

[Ken Cheng]

i think that DGSG is after the condor trilogy because in Chapter 2 of DGSG, The Jade Cliff under moonlight, when Duan Yu entered "Blessed Reading Ground" there was a note that said and i quote from wuxiapedia, [under "Beggar Clan" was a note: "Missing 18 Dragon Subduing Palms"], the 18 dragon subduing palms was the pinnacle of external energy created by hong qi gong of the beggar clan, so how can xiao feng learned it if DGSG took place before the condor trilogy

Not possible. DGSD clearly happened during the Northern Sung Dynasty, around C.E. 1100, when the Khitan Liao Empire threatened the Northern Sung Dynasty, Hsi Hsia Kingdom was also formidable state, and the Jurchen tribes were only beginning to emerge.

LOCH did not begin until around 1200, an entire century later during the Southern Sung Dynasty. The Khitan Liao Empire was extinct, and the new threats to the Sung Dynasty were the Jurchen Jin Empire and the emerging Mongol Empire of Genghis Khan.

The concept that North Beggar Hung 7 Gung was the inventor of Hong Lung 18 Palms is an artifact of the first edition of LOCH published during the 1950s. After the publication of DGSD in the 1960s, that first edition of LOCH was superseded by a second edition that eliminated Hung 7 Gung's invention of the Hong Lung 18 Palms.

[jadebunny9]

Also, DGSD has to take place before the Condor Trilogy because Yideng from LOCH is Duan Yu's direct descendant.

[Huumanshadow]

Also, DGSD has to take place before the Condor Trilogy because Yideng from LOCH is Duan Yu's direct descendant.

Yeah, DGSD is before Condor Trilogy because the Kingdom of Dali was destroy by the mongols during the 16 years waiting that YG waited for XLN.

Also the Dugu in ROCH was never stated to be a swordsman, or his philosophy is that once you reach a certain level you no longer need a sword. YG reflect on this during his last fight with Jinlun Fawang and he realizes that he was arrogant when he discarded his Iron Sword because he thought that he was passed the stage of needing a sword. Dugu's sword grave show the progression of his skill.

age teens: he uses a extremely sharp Jade sword
age 30: Flexible Sword, hard to control and was abandon
age 40: Iron Sword, simplicity bring superiorty
age 40+: no longer need a sword, reach a state of no sword is better then with sword.

So i finally realizes that the Dugus have nothing in common except their name....

[ChanceEncounter]

Yeah, DGSD is before Condor Trilogy because the Kingdom of Dali was destroy by the mongols during the 16 years waiting that YG waited for XLN.

Also the Dugu in ROCH was never stated to be a swordsman, or his philosophy is that once you reach a certain level you no longer need a sword. YG reflect on this during his last fight with Jinlun Fawang and he realizes that he was arrogant when he discarded his Iron Sword because he thought that he was passed the stage of needing a sword. Dugu's sword grave show the progression of his skill.

age teens: he uses a extremely sharp Jade sword
age 30: Flexible Sword, hard to control and was abandon
age 40: Iron Sword, simplicity bring superiorty
age 40+: no longer need a sword, reach a state of no sword is better then with sword.

So i finally realizes that the Dugus have nothing in common except their name....

Dugu in the cave was known as the 'demon swordman,' or Jianmo.

Yang Guo regretted not bringing the HIS not because he felt he transcended that level (in fact, he knew he didn't because he never got past the wooden sword). He was arrogant enough to use a normal sword to try to use Jade Maiden.

They also both roamed Jianghu looking for someone to fight, but could never find a match. Furthermore, JY explicitly stated that since DGQB did not leave a manuscript, YG's swordmanship was not very advanced in comparison to LHC's. If there were two DGQB's, this would be a convenient place to clarify.

[CC]

Also the Dugu in ROCH was never stated to be a swordsman,

....

age teens: he uses a extremely sharp Jade sword
age 30: Flexible Sword, hard to control and was abandon
age 40: Iron Sword, simplicity bring superiorty
age 40+: no longer need a sword, reach a state of no sword is better then with sword.

So i finally realizes that the Dugus have nothing in common except their name....

Eh hwhat?????

[Huumanshadow]

Hmm, i was wrong. I just didnt remember anything about demonic swordsman. My bad

[Wu Wudi]

YG was only about 36 at the end of ROCH, so he had plenty of time to develop his own kung fu. The elite masters tended to live into at least their 90's, so assuming YG died naturally of old age, he had over 50 years to study or perfect his kung fu. Also, assuming that he and XLN lived in isolation from society, he would have had lots of free time to concentrate on bettering his kung fu. It's not impossible that he built the foundation for the LWC version of DG9J.

Since DG9J doesn't really require great inner power, it's possible the art could be passed down generation to generation without losing effectiveness like most of the other arts, so YG may very well have originated the art.

To explain why LWC's version still credits DG9J, it's possible YG and his decendents felt like he/they owed a lot to this "obscure" swordmaster and by naming the technique DG9J, he could give some deserved attention/credit to him.

Some things never change. lol

Sorry, Ken, but YG fans are no worse than Kobe fans!