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Thread: Heaven Sword and Dragon Saber-2008

  1. #341
    Senior Member Leanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0-0-0 View Post
    i heard ZJZ was filming another series instead of HSDS, so it's going to be delayed for a long time.

    I'm so sick of remakes though.
    omg yes, hes filiming "xi you ji"
    and hes like gonna like change all the characters appearance in the audience mind... changing Tang Shen from a girlyish type of guy to some strong muscle dude and making his new "sun wu kong" into not very monkey like
    no one can ever replace Liu Xiao Ling Tong as "sun wu kong".... its just too hard
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  2. #342
    Senior Member sunnysnow's Avatar
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    Post from Ady's thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by yanfeng View Post
    Like, I think, everyone else here- I'm desperately hoping that Ady will land the ZM role. ZM's probably my favorite JY character (with a little competition from Hong Qi Gong and Dong Xie) and after watching Chinese Paladine, I'm convinced Ady will be a great ZM! As a second choice I would suggest that Michelle Ye is great at woman-disguised-as-a-man roles, and she certainly impressed me in World's Finest (though I would be a little afraid that ZM comes across as too comic, since Michelle is probably stronger at comic than dramatic characters.)

    I also agree that HuGe would be a great ZWJ, though that's probably asking for too much. I'd settle for either Wallace Chung- who I think did the agonizing-over-the-choice-between-women thing great in Secret History of Kang Xi- or perhaps Jason Wu- who I think would make this version of HSDS the most wuxia-oriented one. I've always thought that ZWJ is not a very acting-challenging role- he's a little bland compared to the women in HSDS, so why not cast a great martial artist in the role who can be adorable and yet dramatic (think Wudang master)?

    Zhi Ruo is an interesting character- and though I'm much more neutral here than for the ZM and ZWJ casting- I would root for Chu Ja-Hyun in the role. I think she pulled off a great woman with clear gentle-and-sweet as well as evil-and-vengence-obsessed sides to her in the latest Chu Liu Xiang. She'll give Zhirou a sort of grace and self-possession that the character has lacked recently- I think its harsh to make Zhirou a parody of jealousy and fear (of her shi fu), we need a dignity for her character that would make it clear why Wuji came so close to loving her. In the last chapter of the book ZWJ characterized his feelings for Zhi Ruo as "respect", for his cousin "gratitude", for Xiao Zhao "pity/affection" and, of course, for ZM "bone piercing love" Pardon my rough translation. The point being you want a Zhirou you can respect!

    I think Li Qian would make a good Xiao Zhao- she's the perfectly petite and girlish actress who has great emotional range- and XZ is supposed to the youngest of the girls. We also already know she can be great at farewell scenes (think the ending for Twin of Brothers)- which would be super when it comes to the parting scene with ZWJ (recall the '86 version with Maggie Siu's fantastic parting from Tony Leung... makes me shiver just to remember it!)

    For Qing Shu, I want the actor who was Gao Ming (bad guy) in Wing Chun- I guess I've just seen that, and am impressed by his 'character-warping' in there but still coming out with one shining redeeming trait (in that case love for his sister, in the case of Qing Shu some sort of final sacrifice for his father).

    I think the other juicy roles to be had are for Zhang CuiShan and Ying Susu, as well as the Da Shi Shu (oldest WuDang disciple). For me personally, I'll never find the equal of Simon Yam and Carol Cheng again, but I'd like to suggest that some more established actors/actress would go for doing a short few weeks of shooting as ZCS and YSS. So, I'll be ambitious and put Vincent Jiao or Vincent Zhao as my favourites for CuiShan. Both look awesome in ancient costume and have done many impressive 'heroic' roles (I think they have the "dai hup" look- as a precedent, Vincent Jiao was great as Golden Snake Warrior in the recent Sword Stained with Royal Blood, and Vincent Zhao needs no introduction in the world of Wuxia). YSS- hmm... oddly I can't think offhand of established actresses I'd like for YSS. Perhaps actresses who have been great ZM's in the past? Like Gigi Lai (I like her ability to give a spark of evil to very sympathetic characters) or Alyssa Chia (she has the advantage of having starred with both Vincent Jiao and Vincent Zhao to great results!).

    Right, enough chatter for now- what do you guys think? Perhaps if we can come up with a consensus dream team we can send the director an email plea?
    It's nice to hear about the best candidates to play the roles in HSDS but i seriously doubt everyone yanfeng listed, or even half of the list will come true. ZJZ loves recycling his extras so we'll probably get to see Gao Hu (Xu Zhu in TLBB and Huo Du in ROCH) in here as some character, the guy who acted as Zhe Bie in LOCH and Golden Wheel Monk in ROCH in some mongolian role here, probably Zhao Min's father or something. But then again, there has been rumours that HSDS would be ZJZ's last JY series which could also mean he could go all out and blow the budget to hire a stellar cast. He does like to cast one or two famous names (usually from HK or Taiwan) in supporting roles in his series. And of course, he loves to cast himself in guest roles as well!

    Anyway, I sincerely hope Ady gets ZM. I don't think she really suits any of the other roles otherwise. I'm sorry but somehow, Ady lacks the "classiness" to play ZZR. She's more the sassy and fun type, like ZM. Still rooting for Sun Feifei to play ZZR, though Chu Ja-Hyun sounds like an excellent choice as well!

    Actually, i wouldnt mind seeing Wallace as ZJZ. Hu Ge probably fits the bill more but im slightly tired of seeing him in Wuxia shows.

    BTW, HXM did mention recently that ZJZ approached him to play ZWJ (see, I told u the guy loves recycling his actors!) but HXM has accepted a couple of movie projects this year and most probably wont have the time to play ZWJ.
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  3. #343
    Senior Member yanfeng's Avatar
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    I must be sleep-deprived, but I forgot to add Kevin Cui Peng (who was WuHua in the latest Chu Liu Xiang) in as my vote for Qing Shu. He's very dashing in ancient costume and also does cool, obsessed, manipulative and pathetic well!

    Also for the First disciple of WuDang I imagine Kenny Ho would be a great choice- I haven't seen him in "fatherly" roles, but this upright to a fault character I can imagine Kenny being good at. I can't stress how important it is that the Wudang 'uncle's of ZWJ as well as the Ming sect members (particularly Yang Xiao) be strong actors in their own right- its harder to take ZWJ and the whole series seriously if you can't respect and admire the people who supposed to be held in high regard in the book!

    And can we have the person who acted as Zhaomin's father in HSDS '76 as well as HSDS '86 reprise the role? I know, I know he's a HK actor and he's a little on the oldesr side now, but he was so distinguished and yet touchingly, charmingly affectionate but still have the steel in him to throw out his daughter if he felt he had to.

    How could I have forgotten Esther Kwan as YSS? I loved her as the strong and smart Huo Qing Tong in 2002's Book and Sword, and if Vincent Zhao is CuiShan I'd like to finally see them together on the small screen!

    Either of my Cuishan hopes would also be great Yang Xiao's- Vincent Jiao in particular I think has the slightly seductive charm that a great Yang Xiao would have (in the book he is afterall one of the "Xiao Yao Er Xian"- the two debonair Left and Right Hands of the Ming Sect- Yang Xiao and Fan Yao!)

    Kingone Wang (Yi Dian Hong in the '07 Chu LiuXiang) would be great to have as one of the Ming Sect leaders- perhaps Fan Yao, the handsome Right Hand who disfigures himself to infiltrate the Mongolian tribe and ends up being one of Zhaomin's main henchmen and Shi fu.

    I feel like I want to add Hu Jing and Li BingBing in here somewhere since they've been awesome in wuxia serials, but can't think of enough meaty female roles for them- perhaps Ying Li (Wuji's cousin) or Bu Hui and her mom (the ones who Wuji's 7th Wudang 'uncle' fall in love with), though I'm not sure they'll be willing to take on smaller roles since they have led their own series in the past.

  4. #344
    Senior Member yanfeng's Avatar
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    Hi Sunnysnow, thanks for putting my post in the right thread, I've just put up my "add on" hopes as well! Its a bit like writing a letter to Santa- more to put your dreams on 'paper' than in actual hopes of getting something!

    Actually, I think HXM would have made a decent ZWJ- at least I'm impressed with him in the '07 Shanghai Tang. He does "cool" great... though someone who does "vulnerable" and "earnest/sweet" would be a better ZWJ, so I guess I'm not heartbroken he turned the role down. (And let's keep our fingers crossed for someone along the lines of HuGe and Wallace Chung to turn up for the role.)

    I agree I can't see Ady as ZZR (can't really imagine her doing tormented and evil), not even Xiao Zhao (too tame a role for her, doesn't show off her talents enough)- maybe Bu hui/Bu hui's mom? Though Ady did so well at sassy I'd love to see her as ZM first and foremost!

    SFF as ZZR I can definitely see, I also think she's one of the loveliest actresses in wuxia of the 'new' generation, which would make it interesting for ZWJ. In the book, I think ZM is written as being most beautiful than ZZR, but a gorgeous ZZR would make ZWJ's choice that much more intriguing!

    Overall, I'm more worried about the smaller roles- I think having good/bad actors in the roles of Cuishan, Susu, the Ming Sect members (e.g. Zhou Dian, Yang Xiao, Fan Yao, White Eagle, Green Bat etc.), the Wudang 'uncles' and, of course, Zhang San Feng and ZM's father, are the distinguishing factor for me in any HSDS. Most (though not all I hasten to add!) HSDS adaptations have done a good job with the major roles, but some fall flat on the awful 'extras' they have come in to stand there and just deliver lines instead of being the awesome, cool, side-kicks and venerable martial artists that they're supposed to be! (Can you tell I'm an HSDS junkie?)

  5. #345
    Senior Member redfirefly124's Avatar
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    I want Yang Mi as Xiao Zhao Oh and I really hope there's going to be someone good for Yin Li (Zhu'er) and Yin Su Su, as they're my fav characters in HSDS Phyllis and CSS from HSDS 03 did pretty good...but it'll be nice to see some new faces. Maybe Zhang Lan Lan could play someone? Although her chances aren't big since she's not that popular....still, she's really pretty, and that could give her some bonus points in ZJZ's eyes...lol
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  6. #346
    Senior Member Qin_Shu_Bao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redfirefly124 View Post
    I want Yang Mi as Xiao Zhao Oh and I really hope there's going to be someone good for Yin Li (Zhu'er) and Yin Su Su, as they're my fav characters in HSDS Phyllis and CSS from HSDS 03 did pretty good...but it'll be nice to see some new faces. Maybe Zhang Lan Lan could play someone? Although her chances aren't big since she's not that popular....still, she's really pretty, and that could give her some bonus points in ZJZ's eyes...lol
    I agree, Yang Mi's humble, good-natured looks would help her flex the role of Xiao Zhao quite efficiently.

  7. #347
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    Default ZJZ's Yi Tian

    Ah yes - Zhang Jizhong's opportunity to redeem himself. After messing up with Xiao Ao, disappointing with Shen Diao and underwhelming with Tian Long, here's his chance to show more discerning viewers that he hasn't entirely abandoned the artistic vision he showed in She Diao.

    Yi Tian is a tough one to finish on, though. The original novel has rather a lot of problems which make it difficult to film. It's set over four distinct time periods and takes *ages* to get started properly; most of the first half is scene-setting. Zhang Wuji, who might well be Jinyong's worst main character, lacks a real reason to exist. Thank God for Zhao Min...when she finally appears.

    By the sound of things, I'd bet An Yixuan will be cast as ZM. I'd be happy with that, as I think she looks the part and also develops good chemistry with other actors. The director will have to rein in her cartoony tendencies, though, and also give her a bit of regal gravitas and maturity. (At the very least, this will differentiate Ady's interpretation from Alyssa Jia's, which turned a cunning, ambitious princess into some sort of frivolous, giggly teenager.)

    I've no idea who should act as Zhou Zhiruo. She is a rather atypical JY character who needs subtlety. Most Chinese TV actresses seem to do either 'nice-but-dull' or 'cutesy-cutesy'; that won't work with ZZR.

  8. #348
    Senior Member yanfeng's Avatar
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    Definitely see that the danger with Ady as ZM is that she'll make her too comic and not sufficiently self-possessed. I think its hard to strike a balance- I thought Liza Wang had the strongest, most impressive ZM, but she was almost not sufficiently warm, Alyssa was a little too light-hearted, Gigi Lai and Kitty Lai came the closest- Gigi had a streak of "mean" and Kitty was soft but had a streak of clever. Fingers crossed Ady, if she gets the role, manages to give ZM an equal measure of steely strength, cunning manipulation and yet warm laughter and boundless, enduring loyalty!

    Have to disagree that HSDS is slow to start. The first two books are indeed devoted to Cuishan and Susu's story, but that's because they are half the point! I think HSDS is not particularly centered around one or two characters- instead its a whole community of wuxia characters that give HSDS its meaning. So, the first half of the series is not a prequel, its the first half of the story!

  9. #349
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    i guess LYF, SFF, YM. they maybe Fit.

    But as long the girl was pretty, everything is fine with me. BUT Zhao ming ming MUST BE THE PRETTIER GIRL from third character or all girl character. Huhu.
    and who going to play ZWJ ?
    i just loves all series about jiang hu.

    is HSDS really being remake again?? i heard it being canceled.

  10. #350
    Senior Member sunnysnow's Avatar
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    If Ady does get the role of ZM, I do hope she understands the character well and not give us something overly-cute She is however, more capable than that I think. I've watched "Da Han Tian Zi 3" with her in it and she does quite a good balance with a variety of different characteristics like being spoilt, sassy, slightly cunning but kind at times as well. For now, I still like Gigi Lai's ZM best. I also thought ZM was one of Gigi's best roles ever.

    I think SFF and Chu Ja-Hyun do have the capabilities, poise and looks to pull off ZZR. Yang Mi would be a perfect candidate for Xiao Zhao but I'm not sure whether she would accept such a role given that she's gone on to play leading roles for awhile now.
    Last edited by sunnysnow; 02-18-08 at 11:38 PM.
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    Senior Member yanfeng's Avatar
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    Ah... good to know- I didn't watch Da Han Tian Zi, now I'm hopeful.

    And yes Gigi is also my favorite ZM so far in terms of portraying the character- though I would say that its also how ZM was scripted that I liked... Gigi's ZM actually has more history and family/political context than any other ZM I've seen. (Although I think in terms of chemistry with their ZWJ, I actually like Kitty Lai and Alyssa Chia better. )

    I'm actually hopefully in general about the casting.... after watching a bunch of the latest CCTV historic/wuxia serials, I feel like there're a lot of good actors who take on smaller roles and am excited to see them use that to good effect in a series with a host of meaty characters!

  12. #352
    Senior Member yanfeng's Avatar
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    By the way, ZWJ is definitely one of JY's least heroic leading characters! More famous for being indecisive than anything else, he's definitely the accidental hero of the Condor trilogy. Still, there's something touching about a flawed hero that makes me sympathetic- even if I do agree that ZM is the more striking character.

    On a related note, I'm sure I've complained before here that JY, in his epilogue for HSDS mentioned that he actually was not fond of the idea of letting ZWJ end up with ZM because she has too much "leadership" characters.... his favorite female in HSDS is Xiaozhao!

  13. #353
    Senior Member 0-0-0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forU4nd1 View Post
    i guess LYF, SFF, YM. they maybe Fit.

    But as long the girl was pretty, everything is fine with me. BUT Zhao ming ming MUST BE THE PRETTIER GIRL from third character or all girl character. Huhu.
    and who going to play ZWJ ?
    i just loves all series about jiang hu.

    is HSDS really being remake again?? i heard it being canceled.
    Xiao Zhao should be the prettiest girl. It's explicitly stated in the novel and i realise that directors don't want to steal the spotlight away from ZM and ZZR, but it nonetheless annoys me. The characters of ZM and ZZR are more "interesting" so if they get overshadowed by Xiao Zhao, then clearly their portrayal is just not good enough.


    The main problem with Ady as ZM is that there's a chance it could be an Alyssa repeat. Not that Alyssa's not enjoyable to watch, but she's just not the 3 dimensional ZM.

    I'm so glad to hear that HXM is busy Not that he'd be too bad a choice for ZWJ but i am soo sick of seeing his face and if i get my hands on DOMD, 50 eps of HXM should be enough of his face! Hu Ge doesn't fit the role for me either. I'd watch Jason Wu if only for the martial arts- it's hopefully a guarantee that the CGI won't be overboard

    The korean girl in Da Qi Ying Xiong Zhuan would be a great ZZR i think. Or maybe i'm just seeing the similarity between her acting and GYY's. Otherwise, i'll settle for SFF who's definitely going to be good in any wuxia serial.

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    Default Yi Tian: Too Long

    Quote Originally Posted by yanfeng
    Have to disagree that HSDS is slow to start. The first two books are indeed devoted to Cuishan and Susu's story, but that's because they are half the point! I think HSDS is not particularly centered around one or two characters- instead its a whole community of wuxia characters that give HSDS its meaning. So, the first half of the series is not a prequel, its the first half of the story!
    I'm glad you like the early bits of Yi Tian, but personally, I only began to find the novel interesting starting from Chapter 15 - when Zhang Wuji meets Zhu Jiuzhen. When I finished the book, I looked back and wondered what point Jinyong was trying to make with the Guo Xiang and Zhang Cuishan & Yin Susu sections (which are like two stories-within-a-story), and I couldn't think of anything. To me, it's just grossly inefficient background storytelling: they tell me some things I do need to know, but in far too many chapters, and amidst far too much mediocre writing. If I were Zhang Jizhong, I'd want to spend as few episodes as possible on this stuff, so as to move quickly onto filming the better bits.

    Quote Originally Posted by yanfeng
    By the way, ZWJ is definitely one of JY's least heroic leading characters! More famous for being indecisive than anything else, he's definitely the accidental hero of the Condor trilogy. Still, there's something touching about a flawed hero that makes me sympathetic- even if I do agree that ZM is the more striking character.
    Hmmm - dunno about that. ZWJ often seems at the mercy of fate, but this doesn't make him any less heroic. The problem with him is that he's poorly written; all that robotically earnest goodness makes him seem dull. He's like wuxia's answer to skimmed milk (with added vitamins). But these are JY's flaws, not ZWJ's. Just the very process of adapting the novel for TV should go some way towards making ZWJ more human.

    Quote Originally Posted by yanfeng
    On a related note, I'm sure I've complained before here that JY, in his epilogue for HSDS mentioned that he actually was not fond of the idea of letting ZWJ end up with ZM because she has too much "leadership" characters.... his favorite female in HSDS is Xiaozhao!
    Well, that is disappointing. Xiaozhao is so boring! I can only conclude that the revered Mr Cha has never read his own novel. Or maybe he just has terrible taste in women.

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    Quote Originally Posted by owbjhx View Post
    Well, that is disappointing. Xiaozhao is so boring! I can only conclude that the revered Mr Cha has never read his own novel. Or maybe he just has terrible taste in women.
    well i think it comes through in the novel because in the novel, Xiao Zhao was my favourite character- both ZM and ZZR are IMO so much more b!tchy and evil in the novel. In adaptation though, Xiao Zhao is never my favourite, it's usually Zhao Min.

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    Senior Member forU4nd1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0-0-0 View Post
    Xiao Zhao should be the prettiest girl. It's explicitly stated in the novel and i realise that directors don't want to steal the spotlight away from ZM and ZZR, but it nonetheless annoys me. The characters of ZM and ZZR are more "interesting" so if they get overshadowed by Xiao Zhao, then clearly their portrayal is just not good enough.
    Yeah.. i agree. in HSDS, i always want ZWJ with xiao zhao. But if character xiao zhao is the prettiest girl then i can't watch that. Its to painfull. That why ZM must be the prettiest girl.


    Quote Originally Posted by 0-0-0 View Post
    The korean girl in Da Qi Ying Xiong Zhuan would be a great ZZR i think. Or maybe i'm just seeing the similarity between her acting and GYY's. Otherwise, i'll settle for SFF who's definitely going to be good in any wuxia serial.
    Yeah. in CLX series, she does good in BAD EVIL GIRL. <---- if i'm not mistaken. but SFF, i think she doesn't fit... her face is to ........(you know)

  17. #357
    Senior Member sunnysnow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forU4nd1 View Post
    Yeah.. i agree. in HSDS, i always want ZWJ with xiao zhao. But if character xiao zhao is the prettiest girl then i can't watch that. Its to painfull. That why ZM must be the prettiest girl.
    Eh..why not? Because the hero has to always end up with the prettiest girl??

    Quote Originally Posted by forU4nd1 View Post
    Yeah. in CLX series, she does good in BAD EVIL GIRL. <---- if i'm not mistaken. but SFF, i think she doesn't fit... her face is to ........(you know)
    I dont know. Have u by any chance seen some shows where SFF is evil?
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnysnow View Post
    Eh..why not? Because the hero has to always end up with the prettiest girl??
    Of course. huhu


    Quote Originally Posted by sunnysnow View Post
    I dont know. Have u by any chance seen some shows where SFF is evil?
    u got it wrong.....
    i mean the korean girl right??? which i think the same as the one in CLX.

    and SFF to .... what...err.. face unguilty <---can't express my feeling....... doesn't fit..

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    I like Producer Zhang...
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    Senior Member yanfeng's Avatar
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    Ha, owbjhx, great title for your post!

    Quote Originally Posted by owbjhx View Post
    I'm glad you like the early bits of Yi Tian, but personally, I only began to find the novel interesting starting from Chapter 15 - when Zhang Wuji meets Zhu Jiuzhen. When I finished the book, I looked back and wondered what point Jinyong was trying to make with the Guo Xiang and Zhang Cuishan & Yin Susu sections (which are like two stories-within-a-story), and I couldn't think of anything. To me, it's just grossly inefficient background storytelling: they tell me some things I do need to know, but in far too many chapters, and amidst far too much mediocre writing. If I were Zhang Jizhong, I'd want to spend as few episodes as possible on this stuff, so as to move quickly onto filming the better bits.
    I guess I'm prejudiced by having watched the '86 HSDS first... and there the earlier story is almost as interesting as Wuji's story. So even when reading the books I was happy to read about Susu and Cuishan's story.

    Quote Originally Posted by owbjhx View Post
    Hmmm - dunno about that. ZWJ often seems at the mercy of fate, but this doesn't make him any less heroic. The problem with him is that he's poorly written; all that robotically earnest goodness makes him seem dull. He's like wuxia's answer to skimmed milk (with added vitamins). But these are JY's flaws, not ZWJ's. Just the very process of adapting the novel for TV should go some way towards making ZWJ more human.
    Its true ZWJ is a little bland (skimmed milk fits the bill! ) But I'm saying that quite a few of JY's other heros are known for being steadfast and loyal (GuoJing), smart and loyal (YangGuo), playful and loyal (Linghu Chong)... but if you had to use two words to describe ZWJ, wouldn't "indecisive" creep into it? Not that I don't love ZWJ.... he really is a sweet guy, and he and ZM really do complement each other- one so devious and the other so guileless!

    Quote Originally Posted by owbjhx View Post
    Well, that is disappointing. Xiaozhao is so boring! I can only conclude that the revered Mr Cha has never read his own novel. Or maybe he just has terrible taste in women.
    My interpretation was the Mr Cha is a little traditional in his view of women- where beautiful and not-offensive are the highest virtues. Though there's something to be said about how evil ZM is at points in the novel- she comes across as much more random as well, the serials do tend to tone down her fits of chilly humor.

    And speaking of pretty girls- I enjoyed the shows that I personally thought the actress for ZM not the prettiest girl in the show. In those shows, its even more funny when the glib-tongued ZM pokes fun (with varying degrees of subtlety) at Wuji's tendency to wax uncertain over every pretty girl he meets!

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