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Thread: Heaven Sword and Dragon Saber-2008

  1. #1541
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiffTiff View Post
    Look like the battle of who was the best ZM will never end

    Wuyejin, who are the view of many, can you give me a list? . I know flamer is one of Alyssa's die hard fan, I guess you too?

    For those think Alyssa was the best ZM, I suggest you guys to check out HSDS 1986 and see Kitty Lai. Or the movie version with Sharla Cheung. If you guys are still not satisfy, maybe asking for other spcnet members to translate HSDS for you, to see JY's description of ZM's charater and personality. Or visit "wuxia translation" in this site; if you don't have access to the novel.

    At least check out Kitty Lai & Sharla Cheung versions first
    i think that the best ZM has to be Kitty Lai because she really play her role of ZM well anyway i did read the wuxia translation so if it go by what it say about ZM then the best of ZM has to go to Kitty Lai and am not a fan of her i just like her role has ZM anyway cant wait for the new HSDS to come out i would like too see how well ADy will play her role as ZM

  2. #1542
    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuyuejin View Post
    Sorry young lady, Gigi was good, but in the view of many, including me, Alyssa's ZM is the best, forever, ever, and ever.


    Thats what I'm talking about.


  3. #1543
    Senior Member wuyuejin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiffTiff View Post
    Wuyejin, who are the view of many, can you give me a list? . I know flamer is one of Alyssa's die hard fan, I guess you too?

    For those think Alyssa was the best ZM, I suggest you guys to check out HSDS 1986 and see Kitty Lai. Or the movie version with Sharla Cheung. If you guys are still not satisfy, maybe asking for other spcnet members to translate HSDS for you, to see JY's description of ZM's charater and personality. Or visit "wuxia translation" in this site; if you don't have access to the novel.
    'Many' includes me, flamer, and many others whose usernames I cant remember heheh. I watched all the movie and TV adaptations of Yi tian tu long ji. The Zhao Min of the 1986 version was good but I dont think she can compare to Alyssa's ZM since not only Alyssa's ZM is more adorable, her costumes were also prettier. On a side note, Ive always disliked the 1986 version as its fighting scenes look hell fake and Tony Leung's frequent onscreen image as a Sanhe Society's gang leader has too much of an impression in my mind for me to see him as a heroic youngster. Sharla Cheung's portrayal of ZM in The Evil Cult was excellent but the only problem is that her appearing time was too short, which gives Alyssa a marginal edge. Had they produced the sequel I would possibly have placed this ZM on the same level as Alyssa's ZM. You can save your time of advising me to read the book as Ive read it several times. Yes, Alyssa's ZM is not as ruthless, smart, and beautiful as the one in the book, but, still, I think she the best portrayal so far.
    日暮乡关何处是?烟波江上使人愁。

  4. #1544
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    Yep, you can put me on the Alyssa bandwagon as well. While I believed Kitty is probably more accurate to the novel, there just a certain flare to Alyssaa version, it's hard to describe but it make the character of ZM that much more likable. Gigi is ok, but like Athena's HR, her version comes and goes but little of lasting impression along the way.

  5. #1545
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    Thanks for the update. I don't like the Wudang customs. They're too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by wuyuejin View Post
    On a side note, Ive always disliked the 1986 version as its fighting scenes look hell fake...
    The fighting scenes in the 2003 version are even more fake and horrible to watch.

  6. #1546
    Senior Member resident:alien's Avatar
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    The best fighting scenes were the ones w/the Venoms. . .you can't replicate the action of Shaw Brothers. . .
    [ 空蕩的街景 想找個人放感情 做這種決定 是寂寞與我為鄰...我們的愛情 像你路過的風景 一直在進行 腳步卻從來不會為我而停...給你的愛一直很安靜 來交換你偶爾給的關心 明明是三個人的電影 我卻始終不能有姓名...你說愛像雲 要自在飄浮才美麗 我終於相信 分手的理由有時候很動聽...給你的愛一直很安靜 來交換你偶爾給的關心 明明是三個人的電影 我卻始終不能有姓名... 一直很安靜 ]

  7. #1547
    Senior Member wuyuejin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dictionary View Post
    The fighting scenes in the 2003 version are even more fake and horrible to watch.
    Yes, ure right, but I dont really care, as Alyssa's ZM made up for all the craps in the series.
    日暮乡关何处是?烟波江上使人愁。

  8. #1548
    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    How can anyone not like Alyssa's Zhao Min.

    $this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://hiphotos.baidu.com/qinaidexiaoguai/pic/item/68c0f1187dfb1fae4bedbc12.jpg')

    $this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://hiphotos.baidu.com/qinaidexiaoguai/pic/item/e61fd0ef0562580cfcfa3c0a.jpg')

    $this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://hiphotos.baidu.com/%BC%D6%BE%B2%F6%A92008/pic/item/ba1466e68f25f037bb38206c.jpg')

    A reminder of the last Zhao Min for Ady to strive for.

  9. #1549
    Senior Member sunnysnow's Avatar
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    Pics of young ZWJ
    http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/indexlist_1567390533_1.html

    Quote Originally Posted by flamer View Post
    A reminder of the last Zhao Min for Ady to strive for.
    It may just be my opinion but i seriously hope Ady doesnt pit herself up against or strive to be anything like Alyssa's ZM. The last thing i would wanna see from this series is another cutesy pop-idolish portrayal of ZM. ZZR isn't looking good atm and so is ZWJ, hence im pinning my hopes on ZM. Of course, I still hope to be surprised by the final product.
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  10. #1550
    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnysnow View Post
    It may just be my opinion but i seriously hope Ady doesnt pit herself up against or strive to be anything like Alyssa's ZM. The last thing i would wanna see from this series is another cutesy pop-idolish portrayal of ZM. ZZR isn't looking good atm and so is ZWJ, hence im pinning my hopes on ZM. Of course, I still hope to be surprised by the final product.
    Haha yep I know what you're saying. I was referring to striving for Alyssa's success in the role (IMO) but not necessarily her style of acting.

  11. #1551
    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    On another note, I think ZJZ will not allow Ady to take the Taiwan idol-drama style of acting even if she wanted to.

  12. #1552
    Senior Member ChineseChik525's Avatar
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    i have just decided that i really like the guy portraying zhang cui shan. and the girl playing yss is pretty too, just not in that old-looking costume and hairstyle. even in the fur she looks better than that.


  13. #1553
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuyuejin View Post
    Sorry young lady, Gigi was good, but in the view of many, including me, Alyssa's ZM is the best, forever, ever, and ever.

    Instead of just saying subjectively that "Alyssa's ZM is the best, forever, ever and ever." How about you give me some reasons as to why you think she is the best? If your reason is simply because you are a hardcore fan of hers, then I would say that Alyssa is "lucky" to have fans like you because as a critic, I'd say her portrayal of ZM is the WORST to date.

    She made me HATE the character of ZM when I watched her on the screen. I liked Alyssa A LOT before this role. I mean, I followed her from the series of Dagger Li, the one serie in which she was an herbalist to the one of her as Empress Vo My Nuong and she was GREAT in all of those series. I never dislike her, and never wanted to actually criticize her as ZM. Heck, I was excited when I heard that she was the next ZM back in 2002, but after watching the serie I absolutely lost all respect for the role of ZM and I thought that Alyssa did a horrible job. It might not all be her fault, since she is simply just following the HORRIBLE script, but I can't help but say that ALyssa seriously butchered the role.
    My Loves...
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  14. #1554
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuyuejin View Post
    Yes, Alyssa's ZM is not as ruthless, smart, and beautiful as the one in the book, but, still, I think she the best portrayal so far.
    You make me laugh so hard! If you admit that Alyssa lacked the ruthlessness, intelligence and beauty as the character, why do you assume that she is best so far? Hhahahahah!!
    My Loves...
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  15. #1555
    Senior Member sunnysnow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamer View Post
    On another note, I think ZJZ will not allow Ady to take the Taiwan idol-drama style of acting even if she wanted to.
    ZJZ is not directing this. The acting will be overseen by Yu Min who tends to be rather strict but dramatic with his directing. On the whole, ZJZ's productions tend to be more serious and less idolish.

    Anyway, new pics uploaded on baidu.

    Wudang 7, ZSF and YSS
    http://tieba.baidu.com/f?kz=506921338
    Ken Chang's looking very good, just wish YSS had a less granny-looking robe/hairstyle. I read that Ken still hasnt recovered from his leg injury and has to use crutches to climb up long flights of stairs daily, poor chap!

    Some pics of ZM and ZWJ
    http://tieba.baidu.com/f?kz=506925539

    Miejue and Granny GF's fight scene:
    $this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://www.wdsdq.com/wudangnews/UploadFiles_2959/200811/2008112208434724.jpg')
    $this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://www.wdsdq.com/wudangnews/UploadFiles_2959/200811/2008112121402047.jpg')
    $this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://www.wdsdq.com/wudangnews/UploadFiles_2959/200811/2008112121344585.jpg')

    credits: http://www.wdsdq.com/wudangnews/Show...?ArticleID=500

    Zhu'er, ZZR and MJ (ZZR looks slightly better in this new pic)
    $this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://www.wdsdq.com/wudangnews/UploadFiles_2959/200811/2008112814265423.jpg')
    $this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://www.wdsdq.com/wudangnews/UploadFiles_2959/200811/2008112814274305.jpg')
    $this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://www.wdsdq.com/wudangnews/UploadFiles_2959/200811/2008112814261715.jpg')

    Credits: http://www.wdsdq.com/wudangnews/Show...?ArticleID=506

    Not sure who the guy in black is. One of the Xuanming elders?
    $this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://www.wdsdq.com/wudangnews/UploadFiles_2959/200811/2008112609033241.jpg')
    $this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://www.wdsdq.com/wudangnews/UploadFiles_2959/200811/2008112609044629.jpg')
    $this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://www.wdsdq.com/wudangnews/UploadFiles_2959/200811/2008112609045990.jpg')

    More: http://www.wdsdq.com/wudangnews/Show...?ArticleID=505
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  16. #1556
    Senior Member sunnysnow's Avatar
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    Young ZJB (ZSF). The boy looks extremely cute but simply too young for the character!! The guy in white is obviously He Zudao so where on earth is GX?!?
    $this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://www.shaolin8.com/attachment/0811/e0ff23f33a.jpg')
    $this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://www.shaolin8.com/attachment/0811/0de4807a6b.jpg')

    $this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://www.shaolin8.com/attachment/0811/1274a6f43b.jpg')
    $this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://www.shaolin8.com/attachment/0811/b05020cd85.jpg')
    $this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://www.shaolin8.com/attachment/0811/253bc71745.jpg')
    $this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://www.shaolin8.com/attachment/0811/1d0d6b5199.jpg')

    More pics: http://www.shaolin8.com/www/images/2008-11/160.html
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  17. #1557
    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vivy17 View Post
    Instead of just saying subjectively that "Alyssa's ZM is the best, forever, ever and ever." How about you give me some reasons as to why you think she is the best? If your reason is simply because you are a hardcore fan of hers, then I would say that Alyssa is "lucky" to have fans like you because as a critic, I'd say her portrayal of ZM is the WORST to date.

    She made me HATE the character of ZM when I watched her on the screen. I liked Alyssa A LOT before this role. I mean, I followed her from the series of Dagger Li, the one serie in which she was an herbalist to the one of her as Empress Vo My Nuong and she was GREAT in all of those series. I never dislike her, and never wanted to actually criticize her as ZM. Heck, I was excited when I heard that she was the next ZM back in 2002, but after watching the serie I absolutely lost all respect for the role of ZM and I thought that Alyssa did a horrible job. It might not all be her fault, since she is simply just following the HORRIBLE script, but I can't help but say that ALyssa seriously butchered the role.
    Well your judgement of Alyssa being the worst ZM is pretty subjective too. You never gave any good reasons but only just "she did a horrible job". Its all a pretty subjective thing and its hard to raise concrete evidence from a tv production to say "oh she did an awesome/bad job here".

    Quote Originally Posted by vivy17 View Post
    You make me laugh so hard! If you admit that Alyssa lacked the ruthlessness, intelligence and beauty as the character, why do you assume that she is best so far? Hhahahahah!!
    Hey if you think about it, I may not be as smart as the depicted Zhu Geliang, but it doesn't mean I'm not smart at all. In this context, Alyssa may not be as ruthless, intelligent and beauty as the novel character, but that doesnt mean she did a bad job. Much less IMO she did not much lack those traits.

  18. #1558
    Senior Member TiffTiff's Avatar
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    Thank you for the new updates, sunny

    I was out for Thanksgiving celebration at my brother's house, so I missed out on all of your guys replies

    Wuyuejin, I like Alyssa too, as an actress, but not her role as ZM. I think your reason to back her up was so funny . I thought her role of ZM was weak, she didn't show much like she had power in her hand. The part that I thought was really lame for ZM's part, was the scene at Wudang. Remember when one of the Ming Sect guy said "maybe ZM should be our leader's wife?" That part, from previous versions, from Kitty to Gigi. Those 2 ZMs showed little or no interest in that statement, one of Kitty's men got offended and challenged a duel b/c that was disrespecting to their powerful and royal princess

    But, but, the Alyssia's version, she got all HAPPY and got LOST IN THOUGHT, she completely forgot where she was or what she was doing, until 1 of the 2 XuangMing brothers make a noise to snap her out of her dream. I thought a true leader rarely show their weakness and should not be reminded by her follwers on her mission. I know that ZM is a girl, most girls are happy to hear when someone want to marry them, but ZM is not any ordinary girl. She's strong-minded, she's cunning and arrogrant, she has goal and duties to accomplish, she's not going to fall all weak on someone else's suggestion, well, unless from ZWJ.

    Alyssa was very pretty and young looking (she still looks good now too), but her acting of ZM consisted of over-the-top cuteness of widening her eyes, childish expression, bratty crying behavior at Fire Island; she was crying b/c she was missing her daddy, and when she was cooking the fish. She was a funny ZM rather than serious, mature and cunning. She only added 1 aspect to ZM's role, she make ZM more likeable, that was it. Maybe the script was bad, b/c there were some scenes when she said really weird stuff, not like words come from ZM's mouth. For example, the scene when she and Alex fell down the dungeon, the first she said was "Why don't you yell at me, scold at me, for being cunning, trick you into this place" When I watched that, it was like, WTH? That was supposed to be ZWJ line . An arrogrant and cunning ZM would not say something like that.
    Another comparison to show that she was not powerful or show any mean streak in her expression was the scene where she command her followers to cut off one the wulin men. Remember she asked people to surrender if don't they have to fight w/ 3 of her men. Well, one of the 6 sects wulin leader failed, her expression was so weak to command her guy to cut off that guy's finger. If you watch the Gigi Lai's version, her face was straight mean and ruthless, she raised her voice and firmly said "Cut off his finger!"

    Blamed it on the scripts and how it was altered left and right, but everyone has preferences. Maybe childish, idol-ish, and cartoonish acting is your preferences then go head. I'm not going to convince you that one ZM is better than other, it was just Alyssa's ZM was weak and not ruthless like the one in the book, if so, then it was not an accurate potrayal.

    I like sunnysnow for her being open-minded on trying to watch Kitty Lai's clip. I know that she loves Gigi's ZM, but I guess she kind of like Kitty Lai's ZM too; or at least has a nice impression after watching Kitty's clips
    Last edited by TiffTiff; 11-28-08 at 11:47 AM.

  19. #1559
    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    Hi there.

    I believe that in YTTLJ novel, it was in fact mentioned that Zhao Min was shyly pleased of that suggestion. Hence the indifference attitude of previous Zhao Mins were the inaccurate portrayal.

    一个呼叱群豪的大首领,霎时之间变成了忸怩作态的小姑娘。

    Regarding your other proposed issues, I think they are mostly a matter of interpretation and preference and no clear indication from the novel. The script issue does not affect the integrity of the work as a whole hence little effect overall IMO.

    I think its really hard to say which is clearly the best Zhao Min because its mostly a matter of preference with no clear cut answer of indicator.

  20. #1560
    Senior Member babiadorkable's Avatar
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    i think zzr looks better with that hair style rather than the other one
    www.winglin.net/fanfic/Emilyy8 [Raymond Lam, Bosco Wong, Ron Ng]

    www.winglin.net/fanfic/Emilyy5 [oneshots]

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