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Thread: Heaven Sword and Dragon Saber-2008

  1. #1561
    Senior Member ChineseChik525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babiadorkable View Post
    i think zzr looks better with that hair style rather than the other one
    yeah, she looks slightly younger in that picture. although she could do without the bright red lips i think. and is it just me, or does she look kinda too pale?


  2. #1562
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    I think HSDS 2003 was overall quite disappointing and for the most part due to Alyssa's version of ZM. Similar to what everyone has been saying, Alyssa's ZM was too cute, full of pouts, like she didn't have the character to command but rather the events of things just fell into place.

    I've watched 3 versions of this series and soon to be 4 with Ady's and I have to say, I love Gigi Lai's ZM the most. She was strong, cunning, and solid yet showed necessary emotions/contemplation when she became more soft hearted. I love Kitty Lai's ZM as well but because I think HSDS 86' was a bit choppy, not as thorough and the dialogue wasn't as impressive as HSDS 2000 thus HSDS 2000 still remains a classic to me. Even though there was much opposition to Lawrence's ZWJ but he wasn't that bad, his ZWJ showed more emotions and gentleness towards ZM than Tony's, which made it overall more enjoyable.

  3. #1563
    Senior Member wuyuejin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vivy17 View Post
    You make me laugh so hard! If you admit that Alyssa lacked the ruthlessness, intelligence and beauty as the character, why do you assume that she is best so far? Hhahahahah!!
    Hm, maybe you should consider to take a course on logic, as two events 'Alyssa being not as beautiful, ruthless, and smart as the character in the book' and 'Alyssa's ZM is the best so far' do not mutually excluding. I just returned home and am too tired and sleepy to post an analysis of Alyssa's acting as ZM right now. Maybe I will do that on Sunday or Monday, watch out! Btw may I ask you some questions? Have you ever read the book? Why do you think Alyssa screwed up ZM? By comparing her ZM to the ZM in the book or to other versions of ZM that you like?
    日暮乡关何处是?烟波江上使人愁。

  4. #1564
    Senior Member Surferket's Avatar
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    Sunny thanks for those pix. But this ZZR still looks very old!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by babiadorkable View Post
    i think zzr looks better with that hair style rather than the other one

  5. #1565
    Member vivy17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuyuejin View Post
    Hm, maybe you should consider to take a course on logic, as two events 'Alyssa being not as beautiful, ruthless, and smart as the character in the book' and 'Alyssa's ZM is the best so far' do not mutually excluding. I just returned home and am too tired and sleepy to post an analysis of Alyssa's acting as ZM right now. Maybe I will do that on Sunday or Monday, watch out! Btw may I ask you some questions? Have you ever read the book? Why do you think Alyssa screwed up ZM? By comparing her ZM to the ZM in the book or to other versions of ZM that you like?
    Speaking of taking a course in logic, perhaps you should considering enrolling in an ESL course too. What the heck does " do not mutually excluding" mean??

    I read the book, but not the original Chinese version. I read the one translated into Vietnamese. If you want to compare Alyssa's portrayal of ZM to the actual character from the original novel, then that is your choice, but I can guarantee you that not a lot of people are going to base it on the novel but more on the previous ZMs before her... and if we go in that direction, then Alyssa is possibly the worse ZM.

    Why do I dislike Alyssa's portrayal of ZM? Well... let me start off by re-stating that prior the the role of ZM, I actually liked Alyssa so there were no bias there.

    Alyssa came of as a bratty, spoiled, naive, immature and sometimes quite ignorant ZM. Whenever any of the characters questioned her motives, her authority or her in general, Alyssa's facial expressions showed her weakness, her insecurities and her lack of confidence. The ZM as portrayed by Kitty and Gigi showed a strong ZM full of confidence, cleverness and wit. ZM is supposed to be one of the strongest female character in the serie, but Alyssa portrayed ZM as a little princess who have yet to grow up and deal with reality. Alyssa's ZM was love struck and head over heels for ZWJ in a childish and immature way.

    (Again, not totally all her fault since it is largely due to the poorly written script) I dislike the entire 2003 remake in general and the fact that Alyssa made such a weak ZM bothered me even more.

    Do you need more reasons? Welll.... here are some from other members who make great points too:

    Quote Originally Posted by TiffTiff View Post

    Wuyuejin, I like Alyssa too, as an actress, but not her role as ZM. I think your reason to back her up was so funny . I thought her role of ZM was weak, she didn't show much like she had power in her hand. The part that I thought was really lame for ZM's part, was the scene at Wudang. Remember when one of the Ming Sect guy said "maybe ZM should be our leader's wife?" That part, from previous versions, from Kitty to Gigi. Those 2 ZMs showed little or no interest in that statement, one of Kitty's men got offended and challenged a duel b/c that was disrespecting to their powerful and royal princess

    But, but, the Alyssia's version, she got all HAPPY and got LOST IN THOUGHT, she completely forgot where she was or what she was doing, until 1 of the 2 XuangMing brothers make a noise to snap her out of her dream. I thought a true leader rarely show their weakness and should not be reminded by her follwers on her mission. I know that ZM is a girl, most girls are happy to hear when someone want to marry them, but ZM is not any ordinary girl. She's strong-minded, she's cunning and arrogrant, she has goal and duties to accomplish, she's not going to fall all weak on someone else's suggestion, well, unless from ZWJ.

    Alyssa was very pretty and young looking (she still looks good now too), but her acting of ZM consisted of over-the-top cuteness of widening her eyes, childish expression, bratty crying behavior at Fire Island; she was crying b/c she was missing her daddy, and when she was cooking the fish. She was a funny ZM rather than serious, mature and cunning. She only added 1 aspect to ZM's role, she make ZM more likeable, that was it. Maybe the script was bad, b/c there were some scenes when she said really weird stuff, not like words come from ZM's mouth. For example, the scene when she and Alex fell down the dungeon, the first she said was "Why don't you yell at me, scold at me, for being cunning, trick you into this place" When I watched that, it was like, WTH? That was supposed to be ZWJ line . An arrogrant and cunning ZM would not say something like that.
    Another comparison to show that she was not powerful or show any mean streak in her expression was the scene where she command her followers to cut off one the wulin men. Remember she asked people to surrender if don't they have to fight w/ 3 of her men. Well, one of the 6 sects wulin leader failed, her expression was so weak to command her guy to cut off that guy's finger. If you watch the Gigi Lai's version, her face was straight mean and ruthless, she raised her voice and firmly said "Cut off his finger!"

    Blamed it on the scripts and how it was altered left and right, but everyone has preferences. Maybe childish, idol-ish, and cartoonish acting is your preferences then go head. I'm not going to convince you that one ZM is better than other, it was just Alyssa's ZM was weak and not ruthless like the one in the book, if so, then it was not an accurate potrayal.

    I like sunnysnow for her being open-minded on trying to watch Kitty Lai's clip. I know that she loves Gigi's ZM, but I guess she kind of like Kitty Lai's ZM too; or at least has a nice impression after watching Kitty's clips
    and...
    Quote Originally Posted by time22shine

    I think HSDS 2003 was overall quite disappointing and for the most part due to Alyssa's version of ZM. Similar to what everyone has been saying, Alyssa's ZM was too cute, full of pouts, like she didn't have the character to command but rather the events of things just fell into place.

    I've watched 3 versions of this series and soon to be 4 with Ady's and I have to say, I love Gigi Lai's ZM the most. She was strong, cunning, and solid yet showed necessary emotions/contemplation when she became more soft hearted. I love Kitty Lai's ZM as well but because I think HSDS 86' was a bit choppy, not as thorough and the dialogue wasn't as impressive as HSDS 2000 thus HSDS 2000 still remains a classic to me. Even though there was much opposition to Lawrence's ZWJ but he wasn't that bad, his ZWJ showed more emotions and gentleness towards ZM than Tony's, which made it overall more enjoyable.
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  6. #1566
    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    Actually I did not notice those lack of confidence and weaknesses. As I said before, its a highly highly subjective thing.

  7. #1567
    Senior Member TiffTiff's Avatar
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    I've created a thread for ZM discussion, please go to the global series section , link here : http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=25762

    New updates from Lao Ren's blog, Ady's in her cool warrior outfits again
    http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_4beb36470100bl7t.html

    Updates from Houyee's blog, scene where ZCS & YSS suicide
    http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_556562e60100c9d8.html

  8. #1568
    Senior Member sunnysnow's Avatar
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    Thanks for the updates Tiff! That's a pretty sad post by Lao Ren. Seems like he's experienced some unhappiness with the HDSD crew and has decided not to provide anymore updates on filming

    Does anyone else think Wang Yuan Ke (YSS) looks like a mix between Sun Li and Shui Ling? I imagine she would look very beautiful in decent-looking costumes/hair; her features are rather dainty and she has a sort of "period" look to her as well. Though i have to say she looks very matured for her age; i cant believe she's only 24 this year.
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  9. #1569
    Senior Member wuyuejin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vivy17
    Speaking of taking a course in logic, perhaps you should considering enrolling in an ESL course too. What the heck does " do not mutually excluding" mean??
    Hah, I mean 'arent mutually excluded'! Having that said, do you think that your logic fault is more serious than my grammatical mistake? As I said, Ill post my analysis on Alyssa's ZM soon. Behold! Hahah... I cant read all your long post right now, but with just a skim I found a faulty reason:

    ---$$$ Wuyuejin, I like Alyssa too, as an actress, but not her role as ZM. I think your reason to back her up was so funny . I thought her role of ZM was weak, she didn't show much like she had power in her hand. The part that I thought was really lame for ZM's part, was the scene at Wudang. Remember when one of the Ming Sect guy said "maybe ZM should be our leader's wife?" That part, from previous versions, from Kitty to Gigi. Those 2 ZMs showed little or no interest in that statement, one of Kitty's men got offended and challenged a duel b/c that was disrespecting to their powerful and royal princess $$$---

    In the Chinese text, Zhao Min slightly blushed showing the typical coyness of damsels when she heard Wei Yixiao said to her: '... You should marry our leader'. Do you know how I was e*fing disappointed when I watched the 2002 and 1986 versions and didnt see a little trace of demureness on the faces of their respective ZMs??
    Last edited by wuyuejin; 11-29-08 at 08:27 PM.
    日暮乡关何处是?烟波江上使人愁。

  10. #1570
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    First thing first, wuyuejin, calm down mate, it's just a discussion, so relax . I've created a thread from ZM in the "global series discussion" please go there and praised Alyssa for her role as ZM. I'm afraid we might hijack this thread and it will not look pretty

    If you watch the 1986 & 2000 version again, Kitty seemed surprise and she turned to her left side a little to either think about the statement or at least have a little thought to it, same w/ Gigi. While Alyssa, she smiled and seemed really happy and was lost in her thought, until one of her men cleared his throat to make a sound, so snap her out of her dream.

    You seem very upset or something, being a die-hard fan (s) sometimes have to accept constructive criticism or different opinions from your idol too. Good thing that I don't like any actor or actress to death b/c I know they are human just like us. Most of them are prettier/hotter and have opportunity to be famous but doesn't mean I have to worship them b/c in real life, I don't know what kind of person they are, what kind of lives they live. You can defend your idol, b/c certainly they had or show something that you like, but don't lose your cool in the process of defending them

    I like flamer, he's cute and funny, he likes Alyssa but so far he haven't give concrete reason of why Alyssa's ZM and acting was the best to him. But it's cool with me, b/c everyone has an opinion, as long we respect other people's opinion then everyone will be happy

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    Sunny, I finally used Google Translation to understand what Lao Ren wrote, it was a shame that the HSDS crew were mean to him and his tour? I only know 3 sources to get updates, his blog, houyee, and Ady's blog. Now that he's not giving us update, then that would be sad. We have to count on you to give us updates then, hihihihi
    I wonder where is our vivi_g ? She used to give us news and pix, but she just disappear. Woohu, vivi, where are you? We missed you

  11. #1571
    Senior Member wuyuejin's Avatar
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    Hm you dont need to tell me to calm down, TiffTiff, as Ive never let my mind go wild debating on the net.
    日暮乡关何处是?烟波江上使人愁。

  12. #1572
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    Good, W (can I call you that, it's really hard to type out your name, I hate it if I misspelled someone nicks or names ), you can call me Tiff too, like I've always called sunnysnow Sunny

    Plz join me in the thread for ZM in the global series discussion

  13. #1573
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  14. #1574
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    Pics of cast uploaded onto the blog of one of the reporters who visited the set.
    http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_4a6806790100btu7.html

    Weapons
    http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_4a6806790100btti.html

    More props.
    http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_4a6806790100bttu.html
    The huge box-like thingy is the set for ZWJ & ZM's dungeon scene. Seems like the actors have to fall down through the tunnel on top. The white stone like feature is supposedly a cave ZCS and YSS are trapped in when they first arrive on Ice Fire Island.
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    Senior Member TiffTiff's Avatar
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    Woohu, thank you Sunny for the new update, yay, now we have another blogger to substitute in for Lao Ren, I'll add this new blogger to my bookmark. I don't know the language, but I sure can look at pictures .

    Ady's purple outfit has some nice design at the wrist. I wish the dragon sabre wouldn't be so huge

  16. #1576
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    I didn't think Alyssa's portrayal was horrible and absolutely didn't think she her acting was terrible. Yet, I found the script was at fault.. I mean I think one of the most out of place/annoying scene for me was when they were at all at the island and ZM "cartoonishly" tried to make food for everyone... if i I can find a clip of that scene..
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    Yes the always heated Condor Trilogy Debate on the female heroine. I probably have to go back and rewatch the 86 version again as it been so long, but the scene that definitely won me over with Alyssa was the Mansion Scene where both her and ZWJ fall below the trap. You can call it cutsy, cartoonish, or childish or whatever, but I found the scene more fully portrayed than the 2000 version. Like all version, nothing is perfect and 2003 pretty much went downhill with its script and *wonderful* special effect. 2000, we are not going there with ZWJ and ZRR casting. So far 86 is probably the most complete in my eyes (from what I remember of it) but there will always be room for improvement, which I am looking forward to this series. On a side note, resident:alien, your point is taken, but I wouldn't use that poster as a mean in illustrating it since the message definitely could offend a lot of people.

  18. #1578
    Senior Member loislane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drymonkey View Post
    On a side note, resident:alien, your point is taken, but I wouldn't use that poster as a mean in illustrating it since the message definitely could offend a lot of people.
    I second this.

    I think none of the ZM-s so far, are perfect, IMHO. I cant judge Gigi Lai though, coz I didnt watch the 2000 version. Both Kitty and Alyssa has their own plus and minus points... again, in my humble opinion. I have high hopes for Ady to be the perfect ZM, after seeing the pictures... but we'll see.

    Hmm... rather than Zhao Min, I care more abt the previous actresses who acted as Yin Susu. For me, the Best and Perfect Yin Susu is Dodo Cheng in the 86 version. The closest portrayal yet to the YSS in the book.

    I'm really looking forward to Wang Yuanke's performance, coz I like her face... but so far I haven't seen any selfish/playful expressions from Wang Yuanke that YSS should have. Btw, I agree with sunnysnow, WYK looks alot like Shui Ling.

    2003 YSS was pretty good, but lacks chemistry with Alec, and her portrayal was just not quite there yet... maybe it was the script's fault too. Dont know abt Michelle Mei in HSDS2000, was she good as YSS? As much as I love her as an actress, but she's really too old to be YSS x)
    Sorry, Cecilia Yip was the worst YSS, I think... I cant judge Sharla Cheung much as YSS in the movie, coz her appearance as YSS was too short... but she did a great job in the suicide scene.

  19. #1579
    Member vivy17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuyuejin View Post
    Hah, I mean 'arent mutually excluded'! Having that said, do you think that your logic fault is more serious than my grammatical mistake? As I said, Ill post my analysis on Alyssa's ZM soon. Behold! Hahah... I cant read all your long post right now, but with just a skim I found a faulty reason:
    You have yet to explain to me why my logic is at fault. So far, I am still lost within your grammatical errors....

    Also, if you seriously want this to be a debate, then don't use the excuse of "not having time" to defend Alyssa... because you obviously have the time to "skim" just to find one view you can argue with, and also reply to the post by Tiff. If you cannot think of reasons as to why you think Alyssa makes a good ZM, then I'll just assume that you are a hardcore fan who is just willing to blindedly defend your star. This is nothing to be ashamed of......
    Last edited by vivy17; 11-30-08 at 04:24 AM. Reason: forgot the quotation
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  20. #1580
    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    It is actually impossible to put out "evidence" for or against an actress' performance to give a definitive conclusion. There will always be lovers and haters and opinions highly subjective.

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