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Thread: Heaven Sword and Dragon Saber-2008

  1. #1621
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiffTiff View Post
    Vivy17, I gave up debating over Alyssa's ZM after 2 responses because I've realized flamer and Wu couldn't provide any specific examples of why and how Alyssa has the characteristics ZM like the one described in the novel (From previous versions, Liza, Kitty, Sharla, Gigi all showed the ZM that were: mean, cruel, powerful, tricky, cunning, intelligent, naughty...) Alyssa took ZM to a different route. I guess I'll leave the childish, cartoonish, comic, silly acting to fans that like it . It's really hard to talk to a die-hard fans, so let's have a drink and move on ok, baby?
    Hi Maybe you should get a dose of my medicine too.

    It is easy for you or wu to come up with a list of things you believe Alyssa did well/bad in the series, according to the novel. But whats the point of that? You will just each stare at the other's list and think "ok... now what? Am I convinced?" Probably not, because the list itself, even according to the novel, is hugely subjective. A scene that you might have particularly hated might be loved by another person, hence that part of the list is not valid for said person. But wait, it is valid for you. Hence you see the large amount of subjectivity in the so-called list of "evidence".
    List of reasons essentially meaningless.

    Now lets have a drink.

  2. #1622
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamer View Post
    Well clearly you are taking it too seriously. See below.




    Rather emotional language I would say.



    See it from my point of view, no matter how much you try to argue this, you cannot hope to prove any actress better than another. How can you make an objective judgement but not require literal proof? Think about court judgement as they try to be as objective as possible. To try to make an objective call, literal proof is essential no? The forum is for fun but you and others are creating a tense environment with calls for PROOF and EVIDENCE that an actress is better than another. Come on guys, what proof?









    Need I say more about your love for evidence? If you only require a "list of reasons", then as I said before, they are meaningless.

    I'll post it again.
    Hahahah! Just because I use the term "you darn well know" and "for goodness sake" you assume that these are emotional responses? Please! Get yourself away from the computer and go into the real world. I keep re-stating the word "evidence" because you keep bringing it up. This is call summarize the other person's point of view, this should not be considered an obsession. If you think it is, then your world is very little my dear.

    You may believe that people's reasons for why they feel certain ways are subjective, and therefore, no one can really conjure up objective or hard evidence, but need I remind you AGAIN that this is a fan forum where fans go to express their views and opinions? Of course it is subjective!! This is not a class in law and justice where you are required to bring hard proof to the table! We can all list reasons as to why we think certain ways, link it to some "valid" reasonings and we are all set. Accept it and move on.

    The more I talk to you the more I am sick of the word "proof." You can pat yourself on the back for that.
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  3. #1623
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiffTiff View Post
    Thank you for the article, yanfeng

    I wish there would be some more updates on filming. I've been re-visiting most the blogs I know and there isn't anything new

    Vivy17, I gave up debating over Alyssa's ZM after 2 responses because I've realized flamer and Wu couldn't provide any specific examples of why and how Alyssa has the characteristics ZM like the one described in the novel (From previous versions, Liza, Kitty, Sharla, Gigi all showed the ZM that were: mean, cruel, powerful, tricky, cunning, intelligent, naughty...) Alyssa took ZM to a different route. I guess I'll leave the childish, cartoonish, comic, silly acting to fans that like it . It's really hard to talk to a die-hard fans, so let's have a drink and move on ok, baby?
    Hahah! I am on the verge of giving up too. It's like talking to an Alyssa wall. let's get to nearest pub and leave this misery behind. Cheers!
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  4. #1624
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    Quote Originally Posted by vivy17 View Post
    You may believe that people's reasons for why they feel certain ways are subjective, and therefore, no one can really conjure up objective or hard evidence, but need I remind you AGAIN that this is a fan forum where fans go to express their views and opinions? Of course it is subjective!! This is not a class in law and justice where you are required to bring hard proof to the table! We can all list reasons as to why we think certain ways, link it to some "valid" reasonings and we are all set. Accept it and move on.

    The more I talk to you the more I am sick of the word "proof." You can pat yourself on the back for that.
    You can stay in denial of your emotions and I will not pursuit it further. Moving on.

    Fan forum = subjective opinions.

    What is the POINT of so-called valid reasonings? No point at all. It will not change anything. For the third time.

    "It is easy for you or wu to come up with a list of things you believe Alyssa did well/bad in the series, according to the novel. But whats the point of that? You will just each stare at the other's list and think "ok... now what? Am I convinced?" Probably not, because the list itself, even according to the novel, is hugely subjective. A scene that you might have particularly hated might be loved by another person, hence that part of the list is not valid for said person. But wait, it is valid for you. Hence you see the large amount of subjectivity in the so-called list of "evidence"."

    Your "valid" reasonings may not be that valid at all in another person's eyes and vice versa. Hence the valid reasonings you are hoping for are... useless. Accept that, which I see as simple logic.

  5. #1625
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  6. #1626
    Senior Member sunnysnow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiffTiff View Post
    Sunny, I've got some clips for you, clips of Kitty in Mongolian clothes, sorry, the clips are in Vietnamese again

    1) Scene where she was about to put mark on ZZR's face

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=356zM...eature=related

    2) Another scene where she has a purple flower on her head, scene w/ Tony ZWJ
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PC6Sf...eature=related

    I hope Ady will have pretty tribal clothes.
    My gosh, is that Michael Tao as Fan Yao?!

    Thanks for the clips Tiff! Kitty is very pretty but i find the tribal outfit and accessories a little weird-looking; i much prefer her in han wear. Sheren looks really fitting as ZZR- in fact i think she performed better than GYY for the scene in the first clip.
    Last edited by sunnysnow; 12-04-08 at 01:16 AM.
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    The pictures are looking good so far. I think Ady looks really pretty as Zhao Min, I find her hairstyle actually pretty flattering for her.

    And yes, I think that Sheren did a better job as ZZR, best to date IMO. But I am a big fan of the 86 version.

    Does anyone know when this drama is scheduled to be finished?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haruhi6 View Post
    The pictures are looking good so far. I think Ady looks really pretty as Zhao Min, I find her hairstyle actually pretty flattering for her.
    yes and i think she is the most beautiful Zhao min, i hope her acting will be good too

  9. #1629
    Senior Member sunnysnow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haruhi6 View Post
    Does anyone know when this drama is scheduled to be finished?
    Filming is scheduled to end next March but there were long delays earlier and ZJZ has mentioned that its quite unlikely they complete filming by the original dateline. I'm guessing they'll probably need an extra month or two. Anyhow, it's very unlikely this will get released anytime next year. It'll probably be officially released in 2010.
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  10. #1630
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnysnow View Post
    My gosh, is that Michael Tao as Fan Yao?!

    Thanks for the clips Tiff! Kitty is very pretty but i find the tribal outfit and accessories a little weird-looking; i much prefer her in han wear. Sheren looks really fitting as ZZR- in fact i think she performed better than GYY for the scene in the first clip.

    Yes,that was Michael Tao.

    I actually found Kitty's clothing fun to look at... not practical but fun
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  11. #1631
    Senior Member yanfeng's Avatar
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    Thanks too for the clips Tifftiff, it was a great blast-from-the-past to get to see them again!

    And definitely Sheren was a very good 'good ZZR'- soft on the surface, but strong underneathe. However, it was her transition to the 'evil ZZR' that I found a little less convincing- Sheren has come a long way in her acting since then though and these days I think she's one of the best TVB actresses!

    Tony as ZWJ is sooo cute though... even way back then he had the understated style of acting going for him.

    URgg... 2010? I guess Sunny you're being realistic, but that does seem like a long time to wait- perhaps being ZJZ's last JY adaptation, he'll be able to push it through a little faster?

    Though, push come to shove, I'll pick a good, polished adaptation over a fast-to-market one any day!

  12. #1632
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    No problem sunny & yanfeng, when I have time, I'll post more clips for you guys, but it will be in vietnamese though

    New updates, look like scene where ZM came to Wudang and ZWJ and her agree on the 3 things he will do for her. Ady looks really lovely on the 4th pix

    http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_556562e60100cb3e.html

  13. #1633
    Senior Member sunnysnow's Avatar
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    Thanks for the update Tiff! It does seem like the scene where ZWJ promises ZM 3 requests though i wonder why it takes place at Wudang? DC actually looks pretty good in the first pic!

    Ken Chang's updated his blog with pics as well:
    http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_49943ec10100bx8p.html
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  14. #1634
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    Quote Originally Posted by yanfeng View Post
    Thanks too for the clips Tifftiff, it was a great blast-from-the-past to get to see them again!

    And definitely Sheren was a very good 'good ZZR'- soft on the surface, but strong underneathe. However, it was her transition to the 'evil ZZR' that I found a little less convincing- Sheren has come a long way in her acting since then though and these days I think she's one of the best TVB actresses!

    Tony as ZWJ is sooo cute though... even way back then he had the understated style of acting going for him.

    URgg... 2010? I guess Sunny you're being realistic, but that does seem like a long time to wait- perhaps being ZJZ's last JY adaptation, he'll be able to push it through a little faster?

    Though, push come to shove, I'll pick a good, polished adaptation over a fast-to-market one any day!


    I actually found Sheren's transition one of the best out of ZZr's. I see that in her eyes, before her transition, she had a nice and soft stare at ZWJ.. and later on, her stares become more angry at the thought of seeing ZM and and seeing ZWJ with her.

    In that cliff that TIffTiff showed,I liked Sheren's slightly coy expression dealing with ZM


    Actually I think one of my favs scenes were near the end with Sheren trying to beat ZWJ. I think i like those scenes from the 86 version the best out of all HSDS remakes. I like how she uses her cold eyes to glance at ZWJ to see his reaction on when she announces that she married Song Qing hsu ( love TONY"s expressions too. YOu can see his stunned and disbelief in his eyes)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvOl6...eature=related

    around 4:00.


    and once again when she suggested tha it was ZWJ who killed his 7th uncle

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWmds...eature=related

    at 4:44

    and when she tried to attack his uncles from Wudang, she had a more subtle painful expression when she when she almost didn't have the heart to hit ZWJ.

    Sheren still need more room.. but I just still love her subtle angry looks :-D
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  15. #1635
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    I thought when ZWJ promised ZM to do 3 things for her, it does take place at Wudang. After ZM created troubles at wudang, ZWJ had to find the black jade medicine to help the 3rd & 6th uncles. He went to the inn/hotel that ZM and her men stayed and stole some medicine. Little did he know, ZM tricked him, she order to applied poison (seven poison flower something) to her men, ZWJ took those poison and applied on the 2 uncles. They got itchy and dreamy and ZWJ felt really bad. Right at that time, ZM come and visit w/ XuanMing brothers. ZWJ wanted to kill ZM then suicide, but ZM said she will give him the black jade stuff if he agree to do 3 things for her.

    With Gigi's version, ZWJ came to the inn and they agreed on the 3 things, but Kitty & Alyssa's versions, it did take place at Wudang.

    Sugar, I was about to post up some of those clips to show ZZR's anger/mean/evil side too . Tonight, I'll post up clips w/ Kitty & Tony's chemistry/sweet scenes

    Thanks for the updates sunny

  16. #1636
    Senior Member yanfeng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiffTiff View Post
    No problem sunny & yanfeng, when I have time, I'll post more clips for you guys, but it will be in vietnamese though

    New updates, look like scene where ZM came to Wudang and ZWJ and her agree on the 3 things he will do for her. Ady looks really lovely on the 4th pix

    http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_556562e60100cb3e.html
    Great pictures- You Lai Wu Hui really has an eye for nice photos! And Tifftiff you're a diligent poster for us!

    I think you're correct, it does happen at Wudang after ZM creates trouble there and Ming Sect rushes to Wudang's rescue, taking along ZWJ's newly injured 6th Wudang Uncle. Its also after ZWJ and Xiao Zhao try to steal the cure from ZM but are outwitted by her and end up poisoning 3rd and 6th Wudang Uncles instead with "7 flower and 7 worm" poison (pardon my rough translation!)

    On a side note: For those of who hasn't already seen many versions of this already, if our discussion are too spoilerish for you guys, let us know and we can continue it in spoiler tags!

    I like Ady in the 3rd picture most- I guess I like Ady's happy look very much! Wuji is- poor fellow- always being outwitted by her, and he knows it too!

    The pictures of ZCS and SS ("夫妻情深") are also quite sweet!

  17. #1637
    Senior Member yanfeng's Avatar
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    BTW, two of the comments from YLWH's blog say that Ady is increasing having the flavor of ZM- which I agree with!

  18. #1638
    Senior Member yanfeng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugar View Post
    I actually found Sheren's transition one of the best out of ZZr's. I see that in her eyes, before her transition, she had a nice and soft stare at ZWJ.. and later on, her stares become more angry at the thought of seeing ZM and and seeing ZWJ with her.

    In that cliff that TIffTiff showed,I liked Sheren's slightly coy expression dealing with ZM


    Actually I think one of my favs scenes were near the end with Sheren trying to beat ZWJ. I think i like those scenes from the 86 version the best out of all HSDS remakes. I like how she uses her cold eyes to glance at ZWJ to see his reaction on when she announces that she married Song Qing hsu ( love TONY"s expressions too. YOu can see his stunned and disbelief in his eyes)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvOl6...eature=related

    around 4:00.


    and once again when she suggested tha it was ZWJ who killed his 7th uncle

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWmds...eature=related

    at 4:44

    and when she tried to attack his uncles from Wudang, she had a more subtle painful expression when she when she almost didn't have the heart to hit ZWJ.

    Sheren still need more room.. but I just still love her subtle angry looks :-D
    She does have good expressions, but I think she's a little too stoic for me, though I prefer too stoic to too dramatic (think the Ma Jing Tao version of HSDS- shudder!)

    I'm a little shy about doing this since I generally think Charmaine Sheh a bland actress, but her Zhirou had a decent transition in my book:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKVJ2...eature=related

    1:10-1:30 for her shock and confusion at her shifu's instructions
    1:30-2:00 for her bracing herself to stab ZWJ
    Try 2.30's for her steeling herself to become the evil ZZR as she symbolically walks toward the sect leader seat for Ermei
    3:10'ish for her anger at the wedding.
    The 4.30's were quite cool too, though it was a silly sort of ending, still it meant that ZZR found some resolution in this version, and again Charmaine looks charmingly happy. Lawrence here actually did a good job being the sad counterpoint in this scene.

    (Side note: I'd nearly forgotten that Raymond Cho was Song Qing Shu here as well! )

  19. #1639
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    Quote Originally Posted by yanfeng View Post
    She does have good expressions, but I think she's a little too stoic for me, though I prefer too stoic to too dramatic (think the Ma Jing Tao version of HSDS- shudder!)

    I'm a little shy about doing this since I generally think Charmaine Sheh a bland actress, but her Zhirou had a decent transition in my book:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKVJ2...eature=related

    1:10-1:30 for her shock and confusion at her shifu's instructions
    1:30-2:00 for her bracing herself to stab ZWJ
    Try 2.30's for her steeling herself to become the evil ZZR as she symbolically walks toward the sect leader seat for Ermei
    3:10'ish for her anger at the wedding.
    The 4.30's were quite cool too, though it was a silly sort of ending, still it meant that ZZR found some resolution in this version, and again Charmaine looks charmingly happy. Lawrence here actually did a good job being the sad counterpoint in this scene.

    (Side note: I'd nearly forgotten that Raymond Cho was Song Qing Shu here as well! )

    Yeah... I am not gonna glorify Sheren, but just her portrayal and the 86 version actually made me idolized ZZR Sheren's ZZR was stoic here and there and i am not gonna defend her, but I mean, I don't think the script really allowed her to really whine and NEED her WJ ge ge.
    I always envision ZZR as more proper and less needy.. but the 2000 version.... I am not gonna commenton CHarmaine's acting, but let's talk about the script. THe script made my idol died. I never envision ZZR as someone who would run and wail out "Mo GE GOR GOR". .and near the end, she went half crazy and shaking her head like she got epilepsy.


    DUring the wedding..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nJyiVbJvj8
    around *8:25*, i just like her pained expression. ( Charmaine was just enlarging her eyes or something)


    and I would like to add, probably because what ZWj had said to ZZR near the end, " FOR Zhu Er, i felt touched, XQ, my feelings were pity, and for you, I always respected you"

    Not by just SHeren's portrayal, but the script made me feel like ZZR is someone with a quiet and calm demeanor and doesn't explode on her emotions ( besides the wedding). Even at the end, she strongly told ZWJ that her wounds would probably never heal and suggest never to meet again. In the 2000 version., ZZR was all nagging and whining about her Mo GEi gor Gor. It just made me feel that it went against what ZWJ would respect her about.


    I must say that I didn't read the whole version of HSDS, but maybe the one with ZZR making ZWJ take her throne.. but I never really hated ZZR as a char..
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  20. #1640
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugar View Post
    DUring the wedding..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nJyiVbJvj8
    around *8:25*, i just like her pained expression. ( Charmaine was just enlarging her eyes or something)
    I love that episode! Thanks for bringing back the memories for me!

    I do like her pained expression, and think Charmaine is generally the weaker actress, plus I agree with you that in this particular role, Charmaine portrayed someone much less strong than Sheren's character. Probably not what JY had in mind!

    Though in general I prefer stronger characters, I like ZM's character so much and think of her role as so much more central to the story that I don't mind ZZR being portrayed as weaker than her and in fact find that Charmaine's ZZR struck the right balance of pitiable and cornered for me!

    I thought GYY's ZZR, while exceedingly beautiful, too pitifully weak in the end and Sheren's ZZR not convincingly evil enough- Charmaine's vulnerable evilness tops my list (though that doesn't say all that much since I'm not a ZZR fan so I don't pay as close attention probably as you do! ).

    Okay, enough about my opinions about ZZR!

    What do you think about the various ZWJ's? I think this forum hasn't had that discussion yet!

    I have a hard time forgetting how much in love with Tony's ZWJ I was when I was a kid... sigh... no one will ever inspire that childish fervour that his ZWJ inspired for me again... .... so, for me, his mostly-silent, almost comically slack-jawed, searching-eyed, unwilling hero ZWJ will always be THE ZWJ.

    But that aside, I think surprisingly Alec Su made a good showing, though that might be because I liked the script. Adam Cheng's ZWJ wasn't as impressive as I'd expected from him (not his best role) and Lawrence's ZWJ came across as too bland (again I blame the script since I've seen Lawrence turn in great performances!) Let's not talk about how I feel about Ma Jing Tao's ZWJ... ;P

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