Heavenly Sword and Dragon Sabre 2009 《倚天屠龙记》 - Deng Chao, Ady An, Liu Jing

[NuDaFu]

Why is there no problem with Wudang, Kunlun and all that?

Because they're not implicated as being 'evil'. At least Chengkun was part of Shaolin, and he was the main antagonist.

I'm just wondering why DVD owners have not yet mass-uploaded the entire thing online. Not that I blame them...if I had the DVD set I would have gone into hermit mode and watched the whole thing through before resuming interactions with the outside world.

I guess because only 1-20 has been out in DVD. Then again, probably not, because epi 21 and 22 is floating out there in cyberspace too.

I just finished watching 21, and yet, I didn't get to see any of part of ZM fighting. 21 stopped shortly before ZWJ and co were to go and safe the imprisoned Wulin leaders.

Everyone has commented on the episodes, so I'll only start from epi 19:

Epi 19

ZM majorly cool, though I think she fiddled with her cup far too long. Less is more. I liked how all the arrows headed towards the group, and the fact that only the targets were hit and not the women...very unique way to demonstrate the superiority in the archery skills of ZM's men. The sequence started with ZM throwing her cup at one of the target's forhead, then he collapses at the end. Timing was a bit off, I would've slowed the frames down a bit during the collapse of the guy, just to reflect the speed of the archers, and ZM's exquisite timing.

The music and Ady's acting set up a most sinister air when ZWJ and co stayed at LLM. It was interesting to see the hesitation while drinking the wine. With ZWJ, one could either guess he is very foolish or very brave. Others showed caution, worry, or even fear. But ZM had them all in her hot little hand. Sweet. Although, I would've liked them to slow things down a bit. There seemed to be a sense of urgency to the pacing and even the speaking, where the cadence is lost, and a good performance turns into a mediocre performance.

Loved that little over the shoulder look ZM gives just before they all leave. It's like: "You'll come back...heheheh". Wicked.

I am impressed with ZWJ/ZM fight. For the first time I think, they portrayed this part right from the novel. The daggers stashed under the Guzheng, ZM's double swords, and also a display of ZM's dexterity. For although it was clear ZM had next to zilch internal power, her quickness of mind allowed her to fight with great adaptation to situation.

In all honesty, I thought Yip Tong performed her scene better than Ady while ZM and ZWJ was trapped underground. I felt there was a lack of groundedness to Ady's acting during these scenes. Then again, I assess critically not blindly, even though Ady is currently my favourite actress.

Epi 20

I liked the scenic longshots, but I thought a bit overdone. Would've liked a mix of close-ups, longshots, and a few in betweens. Loved Ady's performance to bits at Wudang. Her little postural slight at the start before her follower introduced ZSF was classic. Clearly she would've known who she came to see, clearly she was aware of the rudeness of her follower's announcement, the fact that she said nothing was an insult in itself.

It was interesting to see ZM juggle the changing situation. Even when it was obvious the odds were against her, she affected only an interested/intrigued look. Then, after some split-second decision, there would be a smile, as if to say: "Ah...I can see where I can still win out of this situation". It was almost like watching a good game of poker, and ZM being the most daring, yet with clearly the best cards in the house. I think the only fault in her plan was that she underestimated or didn't consider ZWJ and Ming. Because, if they didn't factor into the Wudang picture, her aims would've been met. Or at least have a better chance, as all would ultimately be dependent on how effective ZSF was despite his wound.

Got a bit annoyed at the extended male-bonding. How constructive to the plot was it to have all those congratulations running back and forth, back and forth?

Epi 21

Even though I know what is going to happen, there is never a time when I am not amazed at ZM's ability to always be 10 steps ahead of her enemy. Considering that the 7 Worm poison's antidote was always hidden away in the pearl, and that the box it came in contained He Yu Duan Jue Gao, how in control was she? She anticipated ZWJ's reactions like he was one of her chess pieces.

Alas, ZM fell in love with ZWJ. Because if she were his true enemy, man, ZWJ and his merry men would be creamed.

[vindikattor]

This adaption got the best looking Mie Jue Suthai...how are we going to hate her?!?

[Haruhi6]

Thanks NuDaFu for the scans. I will read them after I finish eps 21 and 22 of HSDS!

HSDS 86' did have ZWJ complimenting ZM's calligraphy, I remember that scene pretty well.

I sort of wish Yin Li Tin was more handsome, he's sort of bleh... and his character is not that interesting so it makes it hard for me to root for him and Yang Bu Hui. Plus I don't see why she likes him, it seems more like pity to me.

I think out of all the girls the one that he has been the most star stucken by the sight of would be Xiao Zhao. Of course Zhu Jiu Zhen won the prize for that, but it was a different actor. Deng Chao is a lot more subtle in his acting than that kid, so we prob would never see him so openly awed.

[ilsunjo]

Anyone think after watching up to 22 episode,
this wuji and zhaomin lack chemistry?
this Wuji seems to have no interest in girls(this is funny, because original wuji is well known for his complex feelings for girls, but in this version Wuji seems to have no interest in girls, rather he seems to care for his men more haha )
Zhaomin was too cold with Wuji in temple scene.

Any opinions?

[sunnysnow]

Hah, the censors didn't manage to cut out "Shaolin" in ep 22! Fan Yao was using the words happily (and freely) while revealing his real identity to ZWJ.

click to show/hide spoilers

I also like how unsentimental ZM here is... when she asks ZWJ why he hates her box so much, she does it with a chilly smile... not with any sort of sorrow which most of the other ZM's do!

Wow- a strong ZM indeed!

Not since Liza Wang I think have we seen her like... even Gigi's ZM was a little hurt by ZWJ throwing the gold box!

Like I mentioned- the sparks so far between ZWJ and ZM are sparks of chilly dislike... though I do detect a faint undercurrent of grudging admiration on both side. But it's all still a dish served COLD.

I like how cold and headstrong ZM is in here. Unlike the past adaptation (and novel) where she falls very quickly in love with ZWJ and quite blatantly expresses her liking for him, she seems to take a longer time assessing ZWJ in here and is slow in gaining any admiration towards him. Even though its quite apparent that she's impressed with and has a soft spot for ZWJ, she hesitates to openly display her feelings and always seem to cover up her admiration, concern or unhappiness with cold sarcasm. It's as if she doesn't want to let her guard down and let ZWJ or others know abt her true feelings.

Similarly, any other ZWJ couldn't be more cautious and nonchalant towards ZM than he is in here.

Anyone think after watching up to 22 episode,
this wuji and zhaomin lack chemistry?
this Wuji seems to have no interest in girls(this is funny, because original wuji is well known for his complex feelings for girls, but in this version Wuji seems to have no interest in girls, rather he seems to care for his men more haha )
Zhaomin was too cold with Wuji in temple scene.

Any opinions?

I sort of agree. It's quite apparent that ZM does have somewhat of a soft spot for ZWJ but so far, the only feelings I can detect from ZWJ towards her is that of suspicion, mistrust and the occasional anger. And yes, he doesn't show the slightest bit of romantic inclination towards the other 3 ladies either. Though like what NuDaFu mentioned, having ZWJ/ZM's romance develop slowly is a fresh change. I only hope that the development is handled properly and it wouldn't be too abrupt when they suddenly "fall in love" later. Same thing for ZWJ/ZZR's relationship because right now, ZWJ and ZZR only have limited scenes together.

Regarding the Wan An Temple scene, ZM was indeed a lot more cool and level-headed and less emotional and jealous (than past adaptations and in the novel). In fact, the last cold sneer she shoots at the camera (after ZWJ leaves) while thinking about how she's not going to let ZZR and ZWJ off so easily actually gives me the feeling that she's not going to let ZZR off because she wants to make ZWJ pay for embarrassing her, and not because she's jealous of the attention and concern ZWJ's showering on ZZR.

On a side note, I don't really like how Liu Jing portrayed ZZR in that scene. ZZR was supposed to be calm, dignified and coldly sarcastic towards ZM and Liu Jing's idea of that was to keep rolling her eyes and shooting filthy looks at ZM which made her ZZR appear more sly, petty and slightly b!tchy rather than composed and perceptual.

Epi 20

It was interesting to see ZM juggle the changing situation. Even when it was obvious the odds were against her, she affected only an interested/intrigued look. Then, after some split-second decision, there would be a smile, as if to say: "Ah...I can see where I can still win out of this situation". It was almost like watching a good game of poker, and ZM being the most daring, yet with clearly the best cards in the house.

I agree. I especially love it when after all the Ming Sect members had arrived and were gloating that they had the upper hand, ZM calmly and somewhat lazily retorts something along the lines of, "More of you Ming members can show up and it wouldn't matter. If my plan was to destroy Ming Sect, wouldn't I have taken the route to Brightness peak instead?" which immediately shut everyone up.

T
I sort of wish Yin Li Tin was more handsome, he's sort of bleh... and his character is not that interesting so it makes it hard for me to root for him and Yang Bu Hui. Plus I don't see why she likes him, it seems more like pity to me.

I agree. A real pity given that YBH is very pretty and sweet-looking in this adaptation.

On a side note, this version has a very pretty Ding Minjun and MJST as well. MJST looks really good but does anyone else find her very blatant as an evil character? The way she acts and walks and speaks just spells "EVIL" in bold. It's as if she's constantly reminding the audience that she's an extremely wicked priestess and has to look as wicked as possible least we forget that she's a villain. Same thing goes for Chen Kun!

[TiffTiff]

I re-watch both episodes 21 & 22 last night to look at everyone's expression again

I thought ZWJ looked so lost and confused when he was doing the pinky thing with ZM

For the Wan An temple, ZZR was too conceited. She started out by talking softly (I think) then after ZWJ show up and with 2 swords on her neck, she was even more stuck up . I love ZM's half smile

I remembered SunnySnow reported that there were some rumours that Deng Chao & his gf actress Sun Li broke up while filming HSDS and DC hooked up with Ady. I guess that make both parties uncomfortable (whether the rumour was true or not? ) so it inhibited the chemistry to spark??? There was an article where Ady said she only came in contact with Deng Chao about work and they don't spend time to work around with the script???
Or maybe, the director want ZM & ZWJ to slowly fall for each other, just like NuDaFu said

[leorio]

MJST looks really good but does anyone else find her very blatant as an evil character? The way she acts and walks and speaks just spells "EVIL" in bold. It's as if she's constantly reminding the audience that she's an extremely wicked priestess and has to look as wicked as possible least we forget that she's a villain. Same thing goes for Chen Kun!

At least she has enough composure? IMO she's not as bad as the actress in 1986, who makes Mie Jue look more like a caricature than a real character. 2003's Mie Jue is probably the most convincing I've seen so far.

[j2j2j2]

Like I mentioned- the sparks so far between ZWJ and ZM are sparks of chilly dislike... though I do detect a faint undercurrent of grudging admiration on both side. But it's all still a dish served COLD.

Great analysis of ZM! I completely agree and I really like how the script was tweaked and how Ady is portraying her.

It's also great to see how multi-dimensional the characters are, e.g. ZM was so playful with her dad, but "all business" when dealing with others.

On a side note, I don't really like how Liu Jing portrayed ZZR in that scene. ZZR was supposed to be calm, dignified and coldly sarcastic towards ZM and Liu Jing's idea of that was to keep rolling her eyes and shooting filthy looks at ZM which made her ZZR appear more sly, petty and slightly b!tchy rather than composed and perceptual.

I'm only on episode 20 but I'm guessing they're trying to avoid the issue in the 2003 version of people feeling sorry for ZZR. And so to that point, Liu Jing actually looks the part since she has that I'm-better-than-you, haughty look

MJST looks really good but does anyone else find her very blatant as an evil character? The way she acts and walks and speaks just spells "EVIL" in bold.

Her hair reminds me of Cruella... and also those mean mother-in-laws in Korean dramas

~~~~~~~

One thing I wanted to mention was how great the Wu Dang fight scene was. In fact, it seemed better (and longer) than the Guang Ming Peak battle!

I really wish there was a director's (or editors') commentary on why they chose to focus on certain scenes rather than others.

[ilsunjo]

One thing I wanted to mention was how great the Wu Dang fight scene was. In fact, it seemed better (and longer) than the Guang Ming Peak battle!

I really wish there was a director's (or editors') commentary on why they chose to focus on certain scenes rather than others.

Because when they were filming Guang Ming Peak battle, it had been raining for weeks in Wuyi mountain. Guang Ming Peak battle was the last scene they filmed, and due to weather and money problem they couldn't complete well their task.

[yanfeng]

Ohh... so much to discuss, so little time.

I'm liking DC with the girls- though nothing romantic about it still his feeling of all-encompassing warmth and caring and protection is delightful! Come to think of it, ZM might be the only girl he doesn't project that way about... which is fun too! In particular he has lots of cute scenes with Zhu-er, Zhu-er carrying him, playing with water, the flower, new clothes... it's almost a little contrived that there's no romance in the air after that... like someone mentions here, it's as if he has no interest in the girls whatsoever!

SS, my worries exactly! I'm trying to figure out how we can get Snake Island next (ZM bites ZWJ) when this ZM is mostly feeling competitive with ZWJ and this ZWJ isn't particularly playful... talk about a different interpretation! Nu Da Fu I hope you're right about the gradual love development which would be wonderful!

At Wan An, most ZM's query ZWJ's feelings toward ZZR out of jealousy ("Is she your girl? Are you planning on marrying her?") Here ZM actually seems mostly constructing a chilly villianess-like argument- if she isn't your sweetheart, and even less your fiancee, I guess it's none of your business if I cut her up a little?

Dungeon scene- weird, as expected, though I _liked_ the last swirling bits... makes it look like ZM was resisting very hard, which is more like ZM than someone who gives in to tickling easily! I didn't like the mock fainting, mock drooping scenes... why make it as silly as that? Though the fight choreography before that was great.... even with the occasionally jarring CGI, overall I like the fight scenes here!

XZ... wowww... what a BEAUTY! I'm amazed at ZWJ's ability to keep his equilibrium around XZ... she's also given a much bigger role here, which rocks! She leads the five flags' defense against ZM's forces when Ming sect is poisoned, she advises ZWJ about being a good example re: no revenge when his 6th uncle gets crippled too, she sings ditties for him when he despairs... I'm starting to wonder what there _isn't_ to like about her, beautiful and wise and sweet... geee!

Actually, if I were watching HSDS for the first time, I might at this point guess

"XZ must be the girl ZWJ ends up with as the quiet, supportive friend he doesn't notice he loves until the end, and ZZR is the good-girl-initial-love-interest-who-causes-XZ-a-lot-of-angst but whom he realizes was a boyhood crush, and ZM is the evil person who gets in the way."

In all the versions I've seen, I never thought of how HSDS might be construed this way before!

DC's ZWJ is a _tad_ too strong for me right now! His confident acknowledgements of Ming sect forces cheering, his noting that his commander Zhu is a sly, ruthless person to watch for... where is the touch of helplessness and generous streak of innocence that I love about ZWJ?!

[yin_shen_quan]

Ep 23: http://www.56.com/u12/v_NDc0NTA0ODE.html
Ep 24: http://www.56.com/u61/v_NDc0NTE0MTA.html

I hope it's just my computer, but the streaming is rather broken...instead of video I'm getting a series of slow images refreshing every second. Tudou seems to be better

Ep 23: http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/iF9O9luR99I/
Ep 24: http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/2BqX2au3_N0/

By the way, I'm still drooling over the scenery (constructed and natural), so if anyone knows where I can download high resolution screenshots to use as wallpapers, I would really appreciate it =)

[TiffTiff]

Thank you so much yin_shen_quan

Ep 23 has ZM and ZWJ drinking at the inn, ZM offer the wine cup to ZWJ with her lipstick stain on it, and ZWJ turned it to the clean part of the cup, ahahhahaha, how cuteeeeeeeeeeeeeee. ZM looks really pretty and suave

[SunnySon]

I think i've gone crazy. Watching this thing without knowing what da heo they are saying.

[TiffTiff]

Lol SunnySon . I feel the same way too. I know the story line already, I'm just watching it for the pictures, and for ZM, of course .

The guy that played as ZM's brother is such a bad actor, he was grinning his teeth the whole time, and he didn't seem like he has power in his hand, he keep asking the XM brothers on what to do? I'm just assuming

I think ZM is showing some interest in ZWJ by ep 23, but ZWJ on other hand pretty ignore it or doesn't know??? It's sad because in ep 24, when ZWJ, ZM, XZ were watching the Emei sect members arguing with ZZR and there's no spark between ZM & ZWJ . ZWJ looked so confused all of the sudden. I thought it was so flirty when ZM blow into ZWJ ear so he can turn over to her, but ZWJ didn't react much, he was so space out or something

[yanfeng]

Hehehe... I have the opposite problem Tifftiff from you two- I can't get it to load fast enough to watch

So I only got as far as the sharing of a cup of wine scene, but I'm with you Tifftiff, ZWJ here is wary of ZM, though ZM seems to be warming up to ZWJ.

Very interesting-

I wonder how I would feel if they made XZ the person ZWJ loves the most somehow, but couldn't be together with.

click to show/hide spoilers

This would certainly be more inline with what Jin Yong himself thought about the ending of the book- he couldn't write it so that ZWJ ended up with XZ, so he made the ending vaguely that ZWJ was still dittering over ZM and ZZR.

On one level I don't like it... I like ZM, I think she's an awesome character and it would be sad for her to get an ending like that.

On the other hand, it _would_ be novel, and I'm all for trying out new angles and new dynamics-
even if it's currently making me feel a pinch of angst for ZM.

Righto, but yes, the good news? I like ZM's Mongolian garb! (Tifftiff, sorry I stole your line!)

[Surferket]

I can't seem to get both tuduo nor 56com to load their ep 23/24

Thank you so much yin_shen_quan

Ep 23 has ZM and ZWJ drinking at the inn, ZM offer the wine cup to ZWJ with her lipstick stain on it, and ZWJ turned it to the clean part of the cup, ahahhahaha, how cuteeeeeeeeeeeeeee. ZM looks really pretty and suave

[NuDaFu]

I don't think this is diverging, considering it concerns the whole spcnet forum. I have to say, I really enjoying posting here on spcnet (esp Jin Yong related threads). The most beautiful blend of intelligent and civil discussion I have ever come across. INTJ forum comes in close second, though civility can sometimes fall off the edge there. So spcnet is no. 1 for me.

Everyone pat yourself on the back for being such wonderful posters!

HSDS 86' did have ZWJ complimenting ZM's calligraphy, I remember that scene pretty well.

Oh, have to re-watch HSDS86 then. I haven't watched it in 18-20 years, memory is shoddy in my old age.

ZM calmly and somewhat lazily retorts something along the lines of, "More of you Ming members can show up and it wouldn't matter. If my plan was to destroy Ming Sect, wouldn't I have taken the route to Brightness peak instead?" which immediately shut everyone up.

I missed that. The online streaming of ep. 21 was too choppy. I didn't even think it was a HD version.

I applaude whoever's decision it was to cut out the excessively emotional and jealous aspects from ZM's character. I can't imagine a good leader such as her to be vulnerable to such non-constructive acts of fancy. Especially when the Mongolian politics are on such shaky grounds. From what I remember of the novel, ZM's clan wasn't on such stable grounds with the imperial court as it seems.

I've actually been to the 'true' Guang Ming Peak at Huang Shan, that was supposed to be the inspiration for Jin Yong's Guang Ming Peak battle. It looks spectular at sunrise. I was almost giddy with excitement at being able to go to a Jin Yong mentioned location. Then again, I've also been to Shaolin...disappointing to say the least because of all the commercialization. Dat Mo's cave was worth it all though (the cave where he was reported to meditate for 9 years). I think I have Shueng Yang to go in terms of Jin Yong location visits. Don't need to go anywhere for the man himself, because he lives in the country I do (I should try and ask him what he thinks of ZJZ's HSDS).

[Haruhi6]

Just finished eps 23. I was a little disappointed by the ZWJ and ZM conversation over wine. I wish Deng Chao was a bit more expressive in that scene. He was sort of very blank/poker faced there. Yea and all other versions have shown that his attraction the ZM by now, this one he doesn't even seem to like her much... being weary of her is one thing, being cold is another.

Wan Bao Bao was annoying... seemed more like a little brother than an older brother the way he acted. I am loving Ady's portrayal of ZM though, I like when she orders people around, there's authority and I liked her during the scene where she is drinking with ZWJ. She has a lot of class in this scene. I thought it was kind of funny when she clapped her hands and nothing happened, and she was like what's going on for a second.

Song Qing Shu is really annoying too... as is Tie Qin Xian Sheng and his wife. I like Fan Yao so far though. I always thought it was kind of wrong for him to kill Han Ji, and how no one seemed to really care or feel bad about it. But I guess she was just sort of like an extra character in a wuxia drama- they live and die and no one cares.

Lui Jing's ZZR was sort of snooty in Wan An Si, I didn't like it but I didn't mind it. I've always found the ZZR's to be a bit snooty in this scene. Not in the good way that ZM is either, but in a more annoying way... maybe I am a bit biased... She hasn't done much yet, so I can't say much for her acting. Mie Jue is easily the prettiest character the O'mei group IMO. I don't even find Ding Min Jun that attractive, she looked a lot better in the stills than she does on screen. I kind of see why the director switched her out of the Ji Xiao Fu role. I don't think she would have been a good Ji Xiao Fu. Although Ji Xiao Fu's role in this version was really small...

I don't really like how much you can hear people thinking in this HSDS, I'd rather read expressions and guess instead of having it said straight out what they think. ZWJ is a little bit too smart in this HSDS, I do miss the the ZWJ in the other versions that were a bit more naive as he said he wanted everyone to be friends. When Tony Leung's ZWJ said the line about everyone getting along and being friends, it felt sincere. When Deng Chao said it, it felt a bit odd as it didn't seem to be as in character with his ZWJ. His ZWJ seems to be peace loving, but not naive like that.

Waiting for eps 24 to load right now. I'm still waiting for the chemistry to happen between ZM and ZWJ!

[AndyChrono]

On the last few episodes:

Thus far Ady's ZM is shaping up to be my favorite ever. Devilish good looks and great acting thus far. Previously I had like Alyssa in 03' because she was just ridiculously beautiful and also Cecilia Yip from 94' because of her acting prowess. Ady's the first ZM to wield both though, and I can't wait until the heavier scenes come later so she can really shine.

I like the Fan Yao portrayal except for the part when he's making the deal with the XM elder. He's smiling a little too much for my liking. Wang Bao Bao is pretty annoying as he doesn't seem to have any lines other than "kill him! kill him!" and his voice is pretty awful too.

ZZR's voice is also awful for it's far too piercing and not soft and gentle enough. Still prefer Kathy Chow's voice from 94'. I don't find Liu Jing to be particularly pretty either so in this one it's almost a no-brainer between ZZR and ZM.

[loislane]

Waiting for eps 24 to load right now. I'm still waiting for the chemistry to happen between ZM and ZWJ!

Nope. They still act like enemies in Ep24 too. Esp. when ZWJ and XZ come to the place where ZM waits for them. ZM sit on the chair in such an arrogant way!

But during the part where those 3 were hiding and listening to the Emei sect members' conversation(DMJ vs ZZR), I think it was cute how ZM nudge ZWJ's elbow and when she blow his ear, everytime he was mentioned by DMJ. Also loved the part where ZM told him to call her "hao jiejie", Ady's expression was very natural. I can see their relationship develop a bit to be friends now^^;

On the other hand, I loved ZWJ-XZ scenes, they're so cute together and its nice to see ZWJ smiles and laughs all the time around her, esp. on the scene where XZ knitted a new clothes for him.

I still dunno how I feel abt ZWJ-ZM's slow development on the romantic dept. On one side, I love and approve DC's portrayal as ZWJ and Ady's classy portrayal as ZM, but on the other hand, I also wish they show interests in each other already by now. I hope they show their feelings to each other already on the scene where ZM bite ZWJ's arm, or else.... dunno XD
But as for chemistry, there's no doubt I can see they have good chemistry already in the Lu Liu manor scene.