Sexism in Wuxia/ancient series.

[Trien Chieu]

From most wuxia/ancient series that I have watched, there are sexism in most of them. They tend to bias in favor of sons over daughters. I couldn't recall any of them bias in favor of daughters over sons. I wonder whether this is what happening in the novels as well or just in series.

[Candide]

Nearly all of the male protagonists are dumber than their love interests.

Wuxia writers are sexist pigs.

[Trien Chieu]

Nearly all of the male protagonists are dumber than their love interests.

Wuxia writers are sexist pigs.

True for most of Jin Yong's heroes except Yeung Gor and Wai Siu Bo (not a hero)

Not true for Gulong heroes.
Little Fish (super intelligent), Chor Lau Heung, Luk Siu Fung, Siu 11 Lang,

[jiang bao]

That's the way Chinese society was. What do you want the novels to do?

[sniffles]

I actually find that JY handles women in a similar way to the way JRR Tolkien did it. Tolkien is often accused of sexism, but he actually put his rare female characters on a pedestal and treated them as if they were too precious to be involved in the dangerous, dirty action of his stories. JY seems to also treat his ladies as precious and too good to get involved in the affairs of martial society, for the most part. And the women he does include are usually intelligent and emotionally strong.

I would only consider his handling of female characters sexist if his female characters were all just one-dimensional sex objects there for the male characters to play with. I haven't seen any female characters treated that way in any of the JY novels I've read so far. I haven't read any GL so I can't speak to his style.

I don't think it's sexist to have mostly male protagonists. It's natural for authors to feel more comfortable writing characters of their own gender.

[Ren Ying Ying]

sexism for the most part is a bias in the treatment and depiction of the two sexes. for example, the application of double standards, stereotyping, etc. It's isn't just about "mistreatment" of women or depicting them as "sex objects". In fact, it isn't even all about women, as males are also subjected to be victims of sexism.

Do wuxia writers treat both their male and female characters with equal attitudes and pedastools of judgement and expectation? If not, then they do display sexism.

[jiang bao]

Again, what do you want JY to do?

His stories are set against historical eras during which the status of women was clearly inferior to men and women, thanks to Confused-ism and neo-Confused-ism (even more confused), lived their lives in chains (figurative).

I don't find his stories sexist. GL's, on the other hand... the guy had a warped view of women, that's for sure.

[yittz]

Agree with sniffles and foxy. I don't have a problem with the way he portrayed his female characters. Sure you can technically classify it as sexism, but how can you achieve equality when modern society hasn't, and less so the society JY was writing about.

[Trien Chieu]

Agree with sniffles and foxy. I don't have a problem with the way he portrayed his female characters. Sure you can technically classify it as sexism, but how can you achieve equality when modern society hasn't, and less so the society JY was writing about.

Agree with you.
However, I was talking about wuxia/ancient novels/series in generally, not limited to Jin Yong's novels.

[Ren Ying Ying]

Again, what do you want JY to do?

His stories are set against historical eras during which the status of women was clearly inferior to men and women, thanks to Confused-ism and neo-Confused-ism (even more confused), lived their lives in chains (figurative).

I don't find his stories sexist. GL's, on the other hand... the guy had a warped view of women, that's for sure.

just because the society IS/WAS that way doesn't make it not "sexist". Just because the South thought it was alright to own slaves during that period of time doesn't make those who owned slaved not "racist". Likewise, regardless of what Jin Yong (or any other wuxia writer) has the ability to do or to not do, the presence of sexist elements don't disappear.

Now, whether or not these authors should get flamed for the sexist elements or not is another question.

[yittz]

Agree with you.
However, I was talking about wuxia/ancient novels/series in generally, not limited to Jin Yong's novels.

Actually I find GuLong's novels some what more biased against the female sex. Maybe it's to do with all the sex scenes.

Liang Yu Sheng's novel, I find he portrays females in a kinder tone and gives them almost equal roles in the novel. Of course martial arts wise, men still tend to be better. But that's not sexism, that should be fact, if men do better in the Olympics why shouldn't they be better at martial arts.

[Ren Ying Ying]

Actually I find GuLong's novels some what more biased against the female sex. Maybe it's to do with all the sex scenes.

Liang Yu Sheng's novel, I find he portrays females in a kinder tone and gives them almost equal roles in the novel. Of course martial arts wise, men still tend to be better. But that's not sexism, that should be fact, if men do better in the Olympics why shouldn't they be better at martial arts.

yes.
but next time, find me a 90 or 100 yr old who wins a gold

[yittz]

yes.
but next time, find me a 90 or 100 yr old who wins a gold

Hey that's not fair. I am sure TC have said this, but kungfu gets better as you get older. It's called cultivation. Gees RYY read the novels carefully pls. I am sure in the real world, castration makes you win the 100m either; not does being a virgin (although that may concentration your training energy).

Just accept the fact that men are better at most things outside of the delivery suite. -> Runs and hides.

[Guo Xiang]

As people said it here, the novels and wuxia/ancient series are simply going according to the standards back then. I would feel weirded out and uncomfortable if I sees any wuxia series portraying a matriachy society, because I know that's not how it WAS like.

If you want wuxia novels that have stronger female identity and feminism, you can always try Liang Yusheng's novels.

[kidd]

Actually I find GuLong's novels some what more biased against the female sex. Maybe it's to do with all the sex scenes.

Sex scenes? Are you sure you are not mistaking Gu Long for Huang Yi? Not that I read a lot of Gu Long's novel, but, of the ones I've read, I've not seen any sex scene yet. Stripping, yes, sex scenes, no.

Gu Long wrote a lot of novels, not all have bias views against women. Although, I've to say, the more famous ones do.
His 2 short novels, 'Righteous Blood Clensing Silver Spear' (Bi Xue Xi Yin Qiang) and 'Peacock Tail' (Kong Que Ling) do not have bias views against women. Instead, the prominent female characters in the 2 novels are written in very good light.

[yittz]

I mean strip scenes. Or sexual references. I haven't come across Huang Yi at all.

[Candide]

I mean strip scenes. Or sexual references.

WTF would that be biased against females? Women are sexual beings too, Mr Monk.

[yittz]

WTF would that be biased against females? Women are sexual beings too, Mr Monk.

Hehe, the only novel I've read in detail are little fish and sentimental swordsman. I am refering to the second one. Lin Xiner? was portrayed as a person who used sex to get what she wants, and the other main female character, dagger Li 'gave' to his friend because friendship is more important. I found them as more unfavourable images compared to how JY gave his female leads.

[Candide]

Hehe, the only novel I've read in detail are little fish and sentimental swordsman. I am refering to the second one. Lin Xiner? was portrayed as a person who used sex to get what she wants, and the other main female character, dagger Li 'gave' to his friend because friendship is more important. I found them as more unfavourable images compared to how JY gave his female leads.

Here's an idea you can try to understand: women are not saints, they are human beings, and some can be really bad. If every portrayal of them in wuxia novels were favourable, they would be held to ideals they cannot live up to all the time, and THAT is unfair for them. Bad women exist too, and they need to be acknowledged & written about so that we can value the good ones.

Leave the b!tching for the feminazis of NOW.

[kidd]

Hehe, the only novel I've read in detail are little fish and sentimental swordsman. I am refering to the second one. Lin Xiner? was portrayed as a person who used sex to get what she wants, and the other main female character, dagger Li 'gave' to his friend because friendship is more important. I found them as more unfavourable images compared to how JY gave his female leads.

Gu Long has Lin Xiao-er, Jin Yong has Madam Ma. Gu Long has Princess Yao Yue, Jin Yong has Li Mo Chou.

As for friendship above women, yes, that's always true in GL novels. But, friendship is also above life itself in GL novels. Main character will not only give up their women, they are willing to give up their life for friends.

Plus, didn't 'Sentimental Sword' has Sun Xiao Hong and 'Amazing Twins' has Su Ying? Aren't this good representation of women?

Lastly, Gu Long novels has main characters who love ugly girls deeply. There is a GL main character who slowly grow to love an ugly girl and prefer her over a beautiful girl eventhough he was turned off by the ugly girl in the beginning. There is also another GL character who thinks the world of his girlfriend eventhough she's deformed in both look and body.