Which martial art is better??

[CC]

Yes, the irony is that, as the saying goes, "all Central Plains martial arts originated from Shaolin, and all Shaolin martial arts were based on Damo" (and of course, Damo is not Chinese).

But, I think Duan Family & Dugu == Central Plains. Murong also == Central Plains (in terms of martial arts classification).

I don't think Dali should be considered part of the Central Plains. That area was populated by the Bai and Yi people and it was never part of the Han, Tang or Song territory.

[flamer]

But, I think Duan Family & Dugu == Central Plains. Murong also == Central Plains (in terms of martial arts classification).

Murong should, but Duan Family should not be.

[Ken Cheng]

I don't think Dali should be considered part of the Central Plains. That area was populated by the Bai and Yi people and it was never part of the Han, Tang or Song territory.

Not to mention that geographically, there isn't much of a "plain" in Dali. I think much of it is mountainous, and the lowlands are somewhat swampy.

[Ren Wo Xing]

I don't think Dali should be considered part of the Central Plains. That area was populated by the Bai and Yi people and it was never part of the Han, Tang or Song territory.

In addition, Dugu Qiubai was actually from the northern plains, not from the central plains. With his first sword, he competed with the heroes of the northern plains in his teenage years; that strongly suggests that the northern plains was his place of origin.

[Ken Cheng]

In addition, Dugu Qiubai was actually from the north, not from the central plains, IIRC.

It's seemingly another case of Jin Yong telling us one thing, but then showing us differently. He makes a big point of "Central Plains martial arts being superior," but then shows these incredibly powerful martial arts that are not of Central Plains origin.

[PJ]

Dali may not be geographically part of "zhong yuan" but its martial arts seem tightly woven into Zhongyuan Wulin in multiple Jin Yong novels. Therefore it's hard to think of it as "foreign".

[Ken Cheng]

Dali may not be geographically part of "zhong yuan" but its martial arts seem tightly woven into Zhongyuan Wulin in multiple Jin Yong novels. Therefore it's hard to think of it as "foreign".

Moreover, among the "foreign" cultures depicted in Jin Yong's stories, the Bai of Dali were shown to be the most Han-like in character. Much more than the Jurchen, the Khitan, the Mongols, the Tangut, and other ethnic groups, the Bai almost entirely adopted Han culture as their own.

[PJ]

In addition, Dugu Qiubai was actually from the northern plains, not from the central plains. With his first sword, he competed with the heroes of the northern plains in his teenage years; that strongly suggests that the northern plains was his place of origin.

Dugu Qiubai competed with heroes from 河朔, which according to Wikipedia is the territory north of the Yellow River, including Shandong, Shanxi, and Hebei. Are you sure these Chinese provinces were not considered part of "Central Plains"?

Anyway, depending on how one looks at it, it can be argued that below Sweeper Monk (whose origin we don't know, may I add), NONE of the 7 top DGSD Elites is of the "Central Plains":

Xiao Feng = Khitan origin

Xiao Yuanshan = Khitan origin

Jiumozhi = Tibet

Murong Bo = Xianbei tribe

Tianshan Tonglao = Western China (Tianshan)

Li Qiushui = Liao mistress

Wuyazi = Dali

Is Xiaoyao Pai part of Central Plains? Hard to say, but their 3 top sages are all residing not in "Central Plains," so one can say NO, they're not Central Plains.

So the best Central Plains warriors in DGSD are in fact 4th tier scrubs like Xuanci and his brothers-at-arm.

[flamer]

Xiaoyao Sect's martial arts origin is contentious but I think there is enough to claim that they are not Central Plains based.

XF's martial arts are Central Plains based though.

LQS should be a Xixia mistress?

How beneficial were the 72 Arts to MRB/XYS/JMZ?

[yittz]

Regardless of the person's origins/current living location, it's the origin of martial arts that's important. Xiao Yao sect theories were all taoist in nature and originated from central plains.

[flamer]

Regardless of the person's origins/current living location, it's the origin of martial arts that's important. Xiao Yao sect theories were all taoist in nature and originated from central plains.

Lol come on... human beings stem from Africa...

If a Taoist in America creates a new martial art using Taoist principles, I highly doubt that would be considered a Central Plains martial art.

[CC]

Dali may not be geographically part of "zhong yuan" but its martial arts seem tightly woven into Zhongyuan Wulin in multiple Jin Yong novels. Therefore it's hard to think of it as "foreign".

Maybe JY's definition of 'Central Plains' is anything not plotting against the Song dynasty. So Dali qualifies while the rest of em' smelly foreigners don't.

As another point, I think JY himself knew of this 'inconsistency'. When the point about Damo's origins was used to debate the legitimacy of Shaolin's origins, Xuanci could not find an answer. And at Ju Xian Zhuang, he made the same observation with Founder's Fist vs Shaolin Arts.

[CC]

Lol come on... human beings stem from Africa...

If a Taoist in America creates a new martial art using Taoist principles, I highly doubt that would be considered a Central Plains martial art.

OF course its Central Plains!

Bruce Lee can be argued to have created Jeet Koon Do while in the USA (and that fact that he was born there) but we aren't going to call it an American fighting method are we?!?!?
And no, just because HK was a British Colony at that time doesn't make Jeet Koon Do a British Art too!

You traitor! You probably think that Taiwan should declare independence and Tibet should be autonomous!

[Huumanshadow]

In ROCH we never really saw the Elephant Dragon Prana full power because the monk only reach a middle level.

I think Shaolin shouldnt be consider in the debate because it did originate from outside china and no matter how much it changed, the foundation was from india.

Dali is it own kingdom wasnt it? so how are we defining central plain?

[PJ]

Don't get me started on Dragon Elephant Prajna (DEP). We once had a debate on whether this was the #1 martial art under heaven, and much blood-spitting and body part-slicing were caused.

Currently, I think Prajna Palm is the best, because it's said to be boundless (unlike the Boundless "Wuliang" Swordplay which only has boundless in its name but is anything but boundless).

Maybe the Prajna family is a lucky breed!

[flamer]

OF course its Central Plains!

Bruce Lee can be argued to have created Jeet Koon Do while in the USA (and that fact that he was born there) but we aren't going to call it an American fighting method are we?!?!?
And no, just because HK was a British Colony at that time doesn't make Jeet Koon Do a British Art too!

You traitor! You probably think that Taiwan should declare independence and Tibet should be autonomous!

OH WOW... Lets not get that political now... This message might've been watched by the Great Firewall of China...

But its a different case to Bruce Lee. Or actually, we don't know what case is it exactly. But if Bruce Lee was born in USA, raised in USA, did not take in any part of Chinese culture, integrated into the US community, then yes his creations would be considered American martial arts.

[flamer]

Currently, I think Prajna Palm is the best, because it's said to be boundless (unlike the Boundless "Wuliang" Swordplay which only has boundless in its name but is anything but boundless).

Not that again... Xuan Ci/JMZ did not demonstrate nearly enough power to justify that statement.

Ok it may be boundless but it may be extremely difficult to reach that level.. Or maybe... Sweeper Monk used it to tap MRB/XYS.

[PJ]

Not that again... Xuan Ci/JMZ did not demonstrate nearly enough power to justify that statement.

Maybe Xuanci only reached 0.3%, and Jiumozhi 1%, of Prajna Palm's majestic potential. After all, it is boundless, so one could potentially reach a level that is several trillion times more powerful than the Sweeper Monk with it.

With Yiyang Finger, it was said that Yideng had already attained the peak of perfection in it, so no more attainment is possible. With Dragon Elephant Prajna, one can at most attain 8x more powerful than Golden Wheel Monk. But with Prajna Palm, because it is boundless, one can reach several trillion, billions of trillion, and trillions of trazillion times more power than anyone in history.

Did I mention it's boundless?

[Ken Cheng]

Maybe Xuanci only reached 0.3%, and Jiumozhi 1%, of Prajna Palm's majestic potential. After all, it is boundless, so one could potentially reach a level that is several trillion times more powerful than the Sweeper Monk with it.

With Yiyang Finger, it was said that Yideng had already attained the peak of perfection in it, so no more attainment is possible. With Dragon Elephant Prajna, one can at most attain 8x more powerful than Golden Wheel Monk. But with Prajna Palm, because it is boundless, one can reach several trillion, billions of trillion, and trillions of trazillion times more power than anyone in history.

Did I mention it's boundless?

Anyone can describe a martial art as "boundless," but unless a practitioner actually takes it to a level that's clearly ahead of competing martial arts, it's just so much talk.

If nobody can, for all practical purposes, attain anything near this "boundless" stage (mainly because nobody can live long enough to reach it), then it's more braggadocio than anything.

As much as you like to promote wuxia's more outrageous claims, I like to bring them back down to earth.

Because I'm just a killjoy that way.

[Trien Chieu]

Lol come on... human beings stem from Africa...

This is just a theory.
I don't think black, white, asian, Latino, eastern Indian, Middle eastern, american indian, ect... came from the same back ground since they are so different from one another. Even among asian, they are different from one onother. The tibetan and the han are different from one another. Even among the han, the nothern chinese are different than the southern han (Cantonese, Teochew), ect... I doubt that all their ancestor came from africa. Even if they all came from africa, they are still different. Just like dogs, there are so many different types of dog.