The following wuxia heroes enter a tavern together...

[Ken Cheng]

The following wuxia heroes, all sober, enter a tavern together:

Kiu Fung

North Beggar Hung 7 Gung

Ling Wu Chung

Lee Chum Foon

Luk Siu Fung

Wu Teet Fa

Awaiting them is 100 gallons of the finest Lui Yee Hung liquor.

Who staggers out of the tavern last?

[Ren Wo Xing]

Xiao Feng. He doesn't get drunk. Period. It's a biological impossibility, but it's true.

[Ken Cheng]

Xiao Feng. He doesn't get drunk. Period. It's a biological impossibility, but it's true.

Didn't he *need* to get drunk for the big skirmish at Tsui Yin Manor, however?

[tape]

I think the latter 4 have all been drunk at one time or another, whereas the first two haven't ever been drunk. Hong doesn't even seem like a real alcoholic drunkard anyway, he seems more like the one who likes wine with his food. Xiao Feng on the other hand...

[PJ]

Didn't he *need* to get drunk for the big skirmish at Tsui Yin Manor, however?

Another TVB divergence. In the novel, Xiao Feng *wished* he could get drunk, but after 50+ big bowls of wine, he still wasn't drunk.

[Ken Cheng]

Another TVB divergence. In the novel, Xiao Feng *wished* he could get drunk, but after 50+ big bowls of wine, he still wasn't drunk.

In the TVB version, Kiu Fung fueled up on liquor so that he could break out into his own version of Jackie Chan's "Drunken Fist" (except for Kiu Fung, it was "Drunken Sabre").

[Ren Ying Ying]

Another TVB divergence. In the novel, Xiao Feng *wished* he could get drunk, but after 50+ big bowls of wine, he still wasn't drunk.

hedid get tipsy though

[PJ]

hedid get tipsy though

He was a little tipsy on the outside, but completely sober on the inside.

[Ken Cheng]

Let's modify the question for a more interesting discussion:

In what order would the men stagger out of the tavern?

[Ren Wo Xing]

In the TVB version, Kiu Fung fueled up on liquor so that he could break out into his own version of Jackie Chan's "Drunken Fist" (except for Kiu Fung, it was "Drunken Sabre").

No, in the novel he basically was just so pissed and frustrated at his life that he decided to go all out and drink a helluva lot before ending his life (as he thought would happen) in an all-out battle against the heroes at the manor.

And might I add that by 'wine', I'm pretty sure that stuff was hard liquor?

[CC]

If you follow the laws of wuxia, before any of those guys get drunk, some rich brat will swagger in with his fancy pearl encrusted sword and scrub retainers. Lines like 'Do you know who I am?' or 'Do you think you are faster than my sword' would get brandied about.

In any case, the wuxia laws do not allow a gathering of this magnitude to leave a tavern un-smashed.

[tape]

I think the order they stagger out is the same order of if you made a list of the best fighters out of those men.

[CC]

I think the order they stagger out is the same order of if you made a list of the best fighters out of those men.

Not sure of that. I think Li has a shot at being the best 1 on 1 fighter there but he seemed to get drunk at a reasonably regular rate in the novel.

[Ken Cheng]

Not sure of that. I think Li has a shot at being the best 1 on 1 fighter there but he seemed to get drunk at a reasonably regular rate in the novel.

Lee is the best there if he has a dagger in hand. Unarmed, he probably ranks fourth on this list of six.

[tape]

Yeah it's gonna be one of those cross novel comparisons again so it's just gut feeling since Li actually doesn't really exhibit any remarkable wtf moments that I remember besides his dagger of course. I'd bet on Xiao over Li, and it seems we place Hong at around the same level as Xiao, (yeah I know pre-16 years etc) so I'd have to rank it Xiao/Hong/Li/Lu/Ling

[yittz]

In the novel it did say his jiu xing came on when a random come to drink with him at that massacre manor.

Throughout the novel XF just never progressed very far in the spectrum of 'drunk/display of effects of alcohol', despite downing litres of high content alcohol.

We assume he drink it for its euphoric side effects. His confidence might have gained as well. But other than that palm to that random who wanted to drink with him, his judgement was not clouded, and obviously his control of fine movements was superb. In the founder fist fight with Xuan nan, his reaction skills was so good that he displayed initiate second, reach first.

H7G never struck me as a big drinker. He enjoy fine wine with good food, but never binged like the rest.

LHC's fighting didn't seem impaired by his alcohol either even though he was described to be at a later stage of spectrum compared to XF.

[Ken Cheng]

Yeah it's gonna be one of those cross novel comparisons again so it's just gut feeling since Li actually doesn't really exhibit any remarkable wtf moments that I remember besides his dagger of course. I'd bet on Xiao over Li, and it seems we place Hong at around the same level as Xiao, (yeah I know pre-16 years etc) so I'd have to rank it Xiao/Hong/Li/Lu/Ling

Lee Chum Foon's martial arts skills outside of his flying dagger were not that remarkable. I would rank him behind Luk Siu Fung in unarmed combat. Luk *might* be able to hold his own against the likes of Kiu Fung or Hung 7 Gung.

I really wouldn't know where to rank Lee Chum Foon and Ling Wu Chung if each were without a weapon. Possibly, even Wu Teet Fa was better than either of them if they were unarmed.

[tape]

I'm not ranking Li or Ling without their weapons, as that'd be pretty unfair. But even with his dagger, I'd bet on Xiao over him mainly because it's so hard to imagine him losing against a non uber, especially against someone who's been shown to be beatable like Li. Xiao doesn't strike me to have the arrogant flaw that Shangguan did, and to be honest I don't think many would bet on Xiao Feng losing to Shangguan.

So my logic is if Li << Shangguan (if he didn't test the dagger) << Xiao, then Xiao should beat Li, though with them both being protagonists it's so hard to imagine either losing fair and square. Linghu Chong just doesn't have the inner strength to compete imho. He would definitely lose to Xiao/Hong in my mind, and probably lose to the other two as well.

[Ken Cheng]

I'm not ranking Li or Ling without their weapons, as that'd be pretty unfair. But even with his dagger, I'd bet on Xiao over him mainly because it's so hard to imagine him losing against a non uber, especially against someone who's been shown to be beatable like Li.

This would be a tough one indeed. It's the ultimate unarmed fighter versus the ultimate armed fighter, in some ways.

Kiu Fung was afraid of only one martial arts skill: 6 Mak Divine Swords. Lee Chum Foon's dagger, though a physical object rather than a shot of internal energy, might have that same effect, though.

Kiu Fung versus Seung Gwoon Gum Hung? I'd love to see that fight, really.

Linghu Chong just doesn't have the inner strength to compete imho. He would definitely lose to Xiao/Hong in my mind, and probably lose to the other two as well.

Ling Wu Chung, Dook Goo "Surprising Position" 9 Swords, against Luk Siu Fung's all-stopping Ling Sai 1 Finger? This one would be lots of fun too, but I have a feeling that Luk might not be up to stopping the Dook Goo 9 Swords as Luk did not have 100% confidence against Sai Mun Chui Sheut and Yip Goo Sing's swords.

[tape]

Heh well Murong Bo had a "perfect" defensive stance which nothing could penetrate...something similar to Shangguan's defense with his rings. I assume Xiao had something similar so I give him the nod.

About Dugu 9 Jian, it doesn't have the raw power and speed as Ximen or Yip it relies on ingenius attacking positions and whatnot...so I don't think Lu would have too much trouble deflecting or dodging it. Actually if Lu ever laid his fingers on the sword itself, I think he has the fight in the bag. LHC wouldn't be able to stop himself from being disarmed or at least the sword broken. I always considered LHC to be the master of repelling enemies more than the best fighter. His Dugu could reach higher and higher levels to repel strong fighters, but it doesn't necessarily win that much easier.