Why did Siu Yeun San and his family travel into Sung territory that day?

[Ken Cheng]

Why did Siu Yeun San and his family (i.e. his wife and infant son) cross the Ah-Mun Pass into the territory of the Sung Kingdom on that fateful day? Siu obviously didn't go into Sung territory looking for a fight (although that's precisely what he got). The Sius didn't strike me as being tourists (the Northern Sung Dynasty and the Khitan Liao Empire were enemies at the time), nor did it appear that Siu was a tradesman traveling into Sung on business.

[yittz]

Why did Siu Yeun San and his family (i.e. his wife and infant son) cross the Ah-Mun Pass into the territory of the Sung Kingdom on that fateful day? Siu obviously didn't go into Sung territory looking for a fight (although that's precisely what he got). The Sius didn't strike me as being tourists (the Northern Sung Dynasty and the Khitan Liao Empire were enemies at the time), nor did it appear that Siu was a tradesman traveling into Sung on business.

He went to visit his in laws, ie XF's grandma on his mothers side.

[PJ]

I wonder if he followed through with the visit after the massacre, but that's a moot point.

[Ken Cheng]

He went to visit his in laws, ie XF's grandma on his mothers side.

Whoa...hold on: you mean Kiu Fung was *half*-Han after all?

[flamer]

Whoa...hold on: you mean Kiu Fung was *half*-Han after all?

If XYS's mum is half Han, XYS would've been 1/4 Han and XY 1/8 Han. I don't recall this detail however. But Jin Yong could have meant for XYS to visit his Han master.

[PJ]

Whoa...hold on: you mean Kiu Fung was *half*-Han after all?

Good question. All it said (in that particular passage) is that Xiao Yuanshan was visiting his wife's parents, who resided in Central Plains. This makes me think the wife's parents should be at least partially Han (since if they're 100% Khitan it would be hard for them to not get murdered by Song loyalists), which means the wife should be at least 1/2 Han if not more. As for Xiao Yuanshan himself, there's no indication that he has any Han blood. So Xiao Feng could have been 1/4 to 1/2 Han.

[CC]

Good question. All it said (in that particular passage) is that Xiao Yuanshan was visiting his wife's parents, who resided in Central Plains. This makes me think the wife's parents should be at least partially Han (since if they're 100% Khitan it would be hard for them to not get murdered by Song loyalists), which means the wife should be at least 1/2 Han if not more. As for Xiao Yuanshan himself, there's no indication that he has any Han blood. So Xiao Feng could have been 1/4 to 1/2 Han.

One thing to note is that his wife did not seem to speak Chinese. During the fight, the two sides could not communicate due to different languages.

[PJ]

One thing to note is that his wife did not seem to speak Chinese. During the fight, the two sides could not communicate due to different languages.

It all happened very quickly, and there was not much opportunity to communicate. As I recall, the sequence was like this:

1. Xiao Yuanshan and wife appear at the scene

2. They see the dead Liao people

3. Xiao Yuanshan yells a bunch of gibberish in Liao language to the Han guys

4. Han loyalist IRON PAGODA Fang Daxiong attacks Xiao Yuanshan

5. Xuanci tries to stop Fang Daxiong but fails

6. Xiao Yuanshan breaks Fang Daxiong's arm

7. A group of Han loyalists gang up on Xiao Yuanshan, while another group gangs up on his poor wife

8. One guy chops off half of wife's head

9. Xiao Yuanshan gets really pissed off

Now, throughout this whole sequence of events comprising of the wife's entire appearance in DGSD, she was not mentioned to have said one word, in any language. Could it be that she was actually mute? Maybe. Or perhaps shy? Or slow? It could be any of these reasons. But I think it's hard to deduce from her extremely limited screen time.

[flamer]

Its awesome for XYS to learn to speak fluent Chinese in his years of hiding.

[yittz]

What XYS did the loyal Song fighters was quite similar to what his son did the rest at JuXuan Manor later.

It was also mentioned that XYS's master is Han.

One would assume XF's mother can speak chinese, as it's highly likely she was brought up below the border. One would assume she would do the communicating if they get attacked at the border. I guess back then, females try to remain hidden from view as much as possible given the man of the house is present, esp. when she is carrying a baby.

[kyss of the sword]

he might have been on a diplomatic mission as he was a influtential member of the kithen army. through not in a high position. murong bo set up the massecare in order to make trouble between kithen and song.

[Ken Cheng]

One thing to note is that his wife did not seem to speak Chinese. During the fight, the two sides could not communicate due to different languages.

Mrs. Siu didn't say a word in any language throughout her very brief appearance in DGSD. Who knows what languages she might or might not have spoken?

What XYS did the loyal Song fighters was quite similar to what his son did the rest at JuXuan Manor later.

Fewer in number, however. Siu Yeun San had to deal with about thirty, I think...while Kiu Fung had to deal with about two-hundred at Tsui Yin Manor.

he might have been on a diplomatic mission as he was a influtential member of the kithen army. through not in a high position. murong bo set up the massecare in order to make trouble between kithen and song.

I wonder if the Liao king, Yeh Lut Hung Gei, knew of whom Siu Fung's father was. Yeh Lut Hung Gei bestowed a noble title and position upon Siu Fung out of gratitude for his help in putting down the coup attempt against him, and out of brotherhood/friendship, but I wonder if part of it wasn't also restoring the Siu family to its rightful place among the Khitan elite.

[CC]

Based on the data, it would seem the the unknown Han Chinese Master of XYS could either speak Khitan/Liao or he was damn good at teaching using sign language and diagrams (or he had a pet bird as a teaching assistant. That bird later ate too much because he missed Xiao's company, grew really big and became the pet of some crazy guy named Dugu).

[jadebunny9]

Based on the data, it would seem the the unknown Han Chinese Master of XYS could either speak Khitan/Liao or he was damn good at teaching using sign language and diagrams (or he had a pet bird as a teaching assistant. That bird later ate too much because he missed Xiao's company, grew really big and became the pet of some crazy guy named Dugu).

This actually sounds probable. Maybe.

[Suet Seung]

I guess TVB's DGSD 1996 did a better job as an adaptation because most of the questions Ken has asked recently about DGSD was depicted in that adaptation; therefore, I never had these questions in mind. (If Ken is going to based his questions on TVB drama adaptations, all the questions about Wu Liang Shan and the two shadows practicing sword and this question about Xiao Yuan Shan presence in Song Territory was shown and explain in the 90s adaptation).

Ken, I know you don't touch stuff after Oct 1988, but if you're really a fan of DGSD, you should try watching TVB 1996 adaptation.

[Ken Cheng]

Ken, I know you don't touch stuff after Oct 1988, but if you're really a fan of DGSD, you should try watching TVB 1996 adaptation.

What are you trying to do, get me to go into another eleven-year wuxia hibernation?

I'm just starting to get my wuxia mojo back after a very weird several months during which I was seriously in danger of burning out on wuxia again. DGSD '81, being much less "tired" in my viewing cycles than the CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY, is being very helpful here (it also helps that there are no characters in DGSD that I absolutely hate).

[CC]

What??? You never watched DGSD96'????!

[Ken Cheng]

What??? You never watched DGSD96'????!

As Suet Seung said, I don't touch any wuxia serial produced/first broadcast after 11:25 (Pacific Time) a.m., October 31, 1988.

Personal reasons.

[CC]

Dude, I do not know what the problem is but that is just not right.

[Ken Cheng]

Considering that Siu Yeun San was at least a Somewhat Important Person (SIP?) in his country, it's surprising that he didn't have more of a security escort than he did. Those Khitan troops that the Han warriors slaughtered moments before Siu and his family arrived at the scene were the totality of Siu's escort, weren't they? That wasn't a very large group (then again, if Siu's trip was intended to be a diplomatic envoy by the Liao into the Sung territories, then crossing the border with a large armed force would have been politically unwise).