What is the most profound, advanced martial art in DGSD?

[ChronoReverse]

The point is that JY's intent and what he wrote ended up disparate. 6MSJ is normally thought of as a really great skill (something I used to think) but under scrutiny, there's no indication of what actually makes it so great beyond philosophy.

As for "worth it", you have yet to show WHY it's worth it.



In the end you're not reading and thinking about the points posted earlier on nor are you providing points in favor of your own argument beyond philosophy.

Why discuss if you're not going to read? I keep addressing your points one by one and you don't even bothering stopping to think about it.

[Ghaleon]

The point is that JY's intent and what he wrote ended up disparate. 6MSJ is normally thought of as a really great skill (something I used to think) but under scrutiny, there's no indication of what actually makes it so great beyond philosophy.

As for "worth it", you have yet to show WHY it's worth it.



In the end you're not reading and thinking about the points posted earlier on nor are you providing points in favor of your own argument beyond philosophy.

Why discuss if you're not going to read? I keep addressing your points one by one and you don't even bothering stopping to think about it.

Ok, I do understand your points. You think its all talk and no show.
You're thinking that even if the design philosophy makes it sound powerful, it has yet to yield any experimental concrete results.

You argue that other techniques can block the qi emissions from 6msg so why bother learning it when you'll be better off with a HL18P that is much more easier to learn and has less inner energy requirements?

Does that sound about right? I'm trying to see from your shoes.

[ChronoReverse]

Thank you =)


I agree with the whole idea behind 6MSJ and why it SHOULD have been really powerful. It's one of the reasons why I used to think it was really really great myself. It's just that JY wrote himself into a corner with what he made to occur.

[Ken Cheng]

Thank you =)


I agree with the whole idea behind 6MSJ and why it SHOULD have been really powerful. It's one of the reasons why I used to think it was really really great myself. It's just that JY wrote himself into a corner with what he made to occur.

Chrono: do you think the same applies to descriptions of Dook Goo Kau Bai's assorted sword arts?

I mean, for all the hyperbole surrounding Dook Goo Kau Bai, we've never actually seen any variations of his skills used to kill a Greats-level fighter dead.

[ChronoReverse]

I can't say anything except for the HIS since there's no demonstration FOR or AGAINST it.


The HIS however does demonstrate how it could transform a person like YG (who otherwise was not a real threat to a serious great) into a serious threat. There's some mitigation factor going both ways in YG's early HIS fights (QQR and GWM) but it's still sufficient to show that HIS does in fact provide a great improvement.

Now, I do not believe that HIS is physically sound and its philosophy doesn't seem that great either when there exists something like DBS which has techniques specifically to deal with simple and heavy attacks. But that's a separate issue.

[Ghaleon]

Thank you =)

I agree with the whole idea behind 6MSJ and why it SHOULD have been really powerful. It's one of the reasons why I used to think it was really really great myself. It's just that JY wrote himself into a corner with what he made to occur.

But you have to know that its next to impossible to account for EVERYTHING in his novels. His novels are already so complex, it's tough to be 100% internally self-consistent in everthing that is described. That's why sometimes the intent of the author is important, i.e. the general information he wants to convey to the reader.

I'm pretty sure it was not JY's intention to make 6msg to be a highly costly and complex art with no payoffs whatsoever. In my mind, he already did his best to portray its greatness given the plot of the story. Personally, I'm already satisifed with its power and grace in the fight against MRF.

If i was the writer i'd have a XZ vs XF vs DY at the end of the novel (not to mention a GJ vs YG at the end of ROCH). But you can't have everything.

[ChronoReverse]

Yeah, it's hard to be internally consistent. It's just unfortunate that JY made 6MSJ to be consistently not-so-great in demonstration. For instance, DY's fight would be very impressive if he had taken down someone strong(er). MRF was introduced as strong but events made it obvious that he wasn't =(

This discussion only exists because of that though =)

If i was the writer i'd have a XZ vs XF vs DY at the end of the novel (not to mention a GJ vs YG at the end of ROCH).

Don't we all wish

[Ghaleon]

Yeah, it's hard to be internally consistent. It's just unfortunate that JY made 6MSJ to be consistently not-so-great in demonstration. For instance, DY's fight would be very impressive if he had taken down someone strong(er). MRF was introduced as strong but events made it obvious that he wasn't =(

This discussion only exists because of that though =)



Don't we all wish

Alrightie then, agreed. So what do you personally think is the most profound and advanced art in DGSD?

[ChronoReverse]

That's a good question and I'd need more thought to choose one.


Of the three choices available, I'd say that BMSG would be the highest ranking one in my books. In its complete form, it's capabilities are pretty insane.

[HuntingX]

Regarding DGQB:

The man took LHC, Captain Useless, from pathetic (below... RapeMan) to #1 Super Uber "can beat down Sweeps with 1 stance" etc.

Similarly, YG Mr. Gugu Gugu went from newby to prostatus.

Who showed off their chops with 6MSJ? As previously noted, with the IMMENSE amount of internal energy DY had stored up, he could have learned basic Shaolin martial arts and been on par with (if not superior to) XF. The 6 monks' 6MSJ was less than impressive, as JMZ stated explicitly.

In one case, DGQB's students show massive (I would argue the most dramatic increase from 1 technique based art) improvement. In the other, the results are ambiguous at best.

DGQB > 6MSJ (I'm comparing a guy and a technique now? Pro)

BMSG >>>> everyone (and everything).

[flamer]

And again you haven't brought anything to prove my assertion otherwise.

My evidence is circumstantial as you say correctly, but that's still more than no evidence.

The best evidence, XF said he could not take on DY's 6MSJ. As I explained before, JMZ being able to take on at the earliest part of the novel is not that amazing.

MRB showed his Canhe Finger and dismissed Dali's Arts because he was trying to protect Gusu Murong's reputation.

[flamer]

Swords that were moving erratically and (miraculously) covering DY's holes.

Proof? I don't think that was ever mentioned. The passage only described DY's 6MSJ brilliance.

[flamer]

And Prajna Palm is an EVEN MORE DIFFICULT SKILL TO MASTER. As a consequence we get to see it kicka$$ even less than 6MSJ. Sweeper Monk praised Shaolin 72 Arts himself! What more do you want?

Would Sweeper monk shouting 'This is Prajna Palm/Demon Subduing Fist/Warrior Attendent Palm' and knocking out XYS and MRB convince you guys?

They may be awesome, but the perquisite to learn it to full extent may be too high, hence its crap.

[flamer]

Yeah, it's hard to be internally consistent. It's just unfortunate that JY made 6MSJ to be consistently not-so-great in demonstration. For instance, DY's fight would be very impressive if he had taken down someone strong(er). MRF was introduced as strong but events made it obvious that he wasn't =(

Xuzhu took even longer with Ding Chunqiu, and eventually won with unconventional martial arts, despite having about 9 times as much internal. So is it the Tianshan Arts that sucks, or his rubbish Beiming internal?

[CC]

Xuzhu took even longer with Ding Chunqiu, and eventually won with unconventional martial arts, despite having about 9 times as much internal. So is it the Tianshan Arts that sucks, or his rubbish Beiming internal?

Duan Yu was pissed off and out to get MRF. XZ did not want to hurt Ding and was scared of his poison. It was specifically noted.

[CC]

They may be awesome, but the perquisite to learn it to full extent may be too high, hence its crap.

Well, if you look at the stats.

Competent 72 Arts Users : Possibly Sweeper (got to Demi-God levels)

: XF (used it to acheive one of the highest internals at young age)


Competent 6MSJ Users : Duan Yu (learnt it because of freak encounters)


You can also say 6MSJ is crap because it is just as hard to master. After all, the Dali Monks don't seem superior to a Xuan monk.

[ChronoReverse]

Have you ever heard of consolidating posts and editing? Good grief 4 posts in a row.

Proof? I don't think that was ever mentioned. The passage only described DY's 6MSJ brilliance.

In that fight, it said that DY was firing randomly.

After fighting for a while, Jiumozhi felt as though his opponent’s internal energy was only growing stronger and stronger, and his sword techniques were boundless without fathom, as though creating new stances on the spot. It was totally different from his earlier fight with Benyin, Benxiang, and the others, where they were rigidly sticking to a pre-set formula; in contrast, the variations were much more difficult to predict and fathom. He was not aware that Duan Yu was not able to memorize all of the complicated changes and transformations within the sword techniques of the ‘Divine Sword of the Six Meridians’, and was simply randomly piercing and stabbing about in a critical situation, much less inventing new stances on the spot

Yet somehow JMZ was unable to even have a single counter saber chi blade get in between DY's 6MSJ (remember, JMZ can utilize at least 12 blades simultaneous blades to DY's absolute max of 10). Even if DY was faster than JMZ, it's inconceivable that nothing go through considering that this fought "for a while" using "countless chi streams".


Thus I can claim that DY was using erratic strikes that somehow closed all holes through which he could have been hit. If his strikes were random then it was because he was supremely lucky.

[CC]

Yet somehow JMZ was unable to even have a single counter saber chi blade get in between DY's 6MSJ (remember, JMZ can utilize at least 12 blades simultaneous blades to DY's absolute max of 10). Even if DY was faster than JMZ, it's inconceivable that nothing go through considering that this fought "for a while" using "countless chi streams".

.

It is not _automatic_ that 12 blades > 10 blades. Its like saying YG with 1 arm would not be able to block a 2 armed ZBT.

Just like if JMZ was holding 2 sabres and DY was holding 1 sword, it is not a given that JMZ can break through as long as that single sword is being wielded ok.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Considering that one of DY's strikes carried enough power to completely dissolve the force of Jiumozhi's attack and still have enough residue force to make Jiumozhi block, I am almost certain that DY's blades were better/stronger than Jiumozhi's, at least when he split them 12-ways.

[ChronoReverse]

Hmm, that particular strike was two attacks from DY versus a single one of JMZ.

He didn’t draw back his attack on Duan Yu in the slightest, and chopped perfectly straight down. Hearing the alarmed cries from Emperor Baoding and the others, Duan Yu knew that he was in a bad situation. He pushed outwards vigorously with both hands. His mind in a state of panic, his internal energy natural flowed out. The ‘Shaochong Sword’ of his right hand and the ‘Shaoze Sword’ of his left hand simultaneously struck out, dissolving the power of the stroke of the ‘Blazing Flame Sabre’ aimed at him. There was still plenty of energy left over from his strike, and with a ‘chi chi’ sound, the the two attacks counter-assaulted Jiumozhi. Jiumozhi didn’t have time to think, immediately sending internal energy to his left hand to ward off the attack.

However, since DY has more internal power, it's conceivable and even probable.

Incidentally this also proves that DY can absolutely fire at the minimum two blades at the same time.

It is not _automatic_ that 12 blades > 10 blades.

I don't mean that. What I meant is that JMZ was unable to get a single blade past DY's random strikes.

It's not like these were wide palm blasts that cover lots of area. They were narrow beams of sword chi. This meant that DY's random flailing somehow intercepted (either directly or indirectly by forcing JMZ to cease an attack) every single one of JMZ's.

It's understandable that JMZ could do that with DY's attack since JMZ was deliberately doing so. But DY had no such deliberation.