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Thread: why do ppl tend to underestimate fighters in SOD?

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    Default why do ppl tend to underestimate fighters in SOD?

    With LHC, RWX, DFBB, also FQY I always hear about how these characters couldn't even beat someone like YG. Is it because they are comparatively weaker than JYs other characters or is it because JYs other characters are that much stronger?
    Last edited by LeKhai; 01-22-09 at 12:06 AM.

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    Senior Member Ghaleon's Avatar
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    I think people believe SOD fighters are relatively weak because of the inner energy issue. People tend to associate fighters like GJ, YG, KF with higher inner power and superior palm techniques.

    It's the whole inner energy vs techniques debate.

    Isn't SOD the most weird of the bunch because the rules of wuxia seems to have changed with regards to the fighting mechanics?

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeKhai View Post
    With LHC, RWX, DFBB, also FQY I always hear about how these characters couldn't even beat someone like YG. Is it because they are comparatively weaker than JYs other characters or is it because JYs other characters are that much stronger?
    Well, people don't seem to think Miao Renfeng can beat Yang Guo either.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    Lol "couldn't even beat Yang Guo" makes YG sound like a weak character.

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    Senior Member Ghaleon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamer View Post
    Lol "couldn't even beat Yang Guo" makes YG sound like a weak character.
    I think its his HIS that makes him somewhat good. His sad palm sucks (not to mention that its useless at the end of ROCH)

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeKhai View Post
    With LHC, RWX, DFBB, also FQY I always hear about how these characters couldn't even beat someone like YG. Is it because they are comparatively weaker than JYs other characters or is it because JYs other characters are that much stronger?
    There's a contingent of strong XAJH supporters on these forums as well. Some really, really impressive things were done in XAJH.
    Read the latest chapters of Coiling Dragon at Wuxia World!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganryu View Post
    I think its his HIS that makes him somewhat good. His sad palm sucks (not to mention that its useless at the end of ROCH)
    Hey I think his Sad Palms are awesome, HYS thinks so too.

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    Senior Member Ghaleon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamer View Post
    Hey I think his Sad Palms are awesome, HYS thinks so too.
    But wouldn't you rather have a fully-functional HL18 Palms? Sad Palms are pretty much useless when you are

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganryu View Post
    But wouldn't you rather have a fully-functional HL18 Palms? Sad Palms are pretty much useless when you are
    Lol indeed I think XL18Z is a better overall skill. But YG with Sad Palms is pretty formidable.

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    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    Sad Palms might have the disadvantage of losing its power with the user's mood but it's still stronger than most martial arts even in its weak form.

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    Senior Member Ghaleon's Avatar
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    Another aspect to the debate is the YJJ in DGSD compared to the YJJ in SOD. Any comments about that?

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    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    Somehow they were completely different (DGSD's YJJ simply required staying in the positions in the pictures WTF?). JY himself seems to have seen the flaw in this made it into Yoga now.

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    Senior Member Ghaleon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoReverse View Post
    Somehow they were completely different (DGSD's YJJ simply required staying in the positions in the pictures WTF?). JY himself seems to have seen the flaw in this made it into Yoga now.
    Well YJJ is primarily a qi cultivation technique which also nourishes and strengthens the tendons and muscles with qi. I thought YJJ is all about maintaining the stances shown in the pictures, don't see why he would change it to another form of yoga now.

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    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    YJJ is a chi cultivation technique that transcends that to the point where the control even allows tendons to be manipulated.

    As a chi cultivation technique, breathing and chi movement is the important part.

    In XAJH, this includes revolving internal energy through the right channels as well as breathing. In DGSD, being in the right position somehow causes internal energy to flow and grow stronger.

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    Senior Member Ghaleon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoReverse View Post
    YJJ is a chi cultivation technique that transcends that to the point where the control even allows tendons to be manipulated.

    As a chi cultivation technique, breathing and chi movement is the important part.

    In XAJH, this includes revolving internal energy through the right channels as well as breathing. In DGSD, being in the right position somehow causes internal energy to flow and grow stronger.
    Yes because the individual stances themselves causes the qi circulation itself to nourish the tendon and muscles. I thought the stances were there in SOD? It isn't?

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    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    Where did you get this "nourishes the tendons and muscles"?


    In SoD it's a difficult chi cultivation technique. FZ spent a great deal of time explaining things to LHC on how to move his chi.
    Last edited by ChronoReverse; 01-22-09 at 01:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoReverse View Post
    Where did you get this "nourishes the tendons and muscles"?


    In SoD it's a difficult chi cultivation technique. FZ spent a great deal of time explaining things to LHC on how to move his chi.
    YJJ gets it name because it's not only a qi cultivation technique but it also has the added bonus of being able to nourish and strengthen the tendons and muscles of the body through qi. Bodhidharma created it because he thought the monks of shaolin were physically weak.

    If its a difficult technique, why do people say that YJJ in SOD is "easy to master" while the YJJ in DGSD was "hard to master"?

    I think Laviathan mentioned that in SOD YJJ is primarily a qi-cultivation technique without the nourishing part, hence the lack of photos of the stances. That would explain a lot if this is true.
    Last edited by Ghaleon; 01-22-09 at 02:21 PM.

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    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    YJJ gets it name because it's not only a qi cultivation technique
    Um. YJJ means tendon manipulation (sutra). Where did you get the "nourishes" part?

    And Shaolin martial arts in general was created for improving the health of the monks. NOT YJJ in particular. In fact, YJJ wasn't even directly given to the Shaolin monks.

    You're again making up stuff.


    If its a difficult technique, why do people say that YJJ in SOD is "easy to master" while the YJJ in DGSD was "hard to master"?
    People say a lot of things without actually knowing.

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    Senior Member Ghaleon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoReverse View Post
    Um. YJJ means tendon manipulation (sutra). Where did you get the "nourishes" part?

    And Shaolin martial arts in general was created for improving the health of the monks. NOT YJJ in particular. In fact, YJJ wasn't even directly given to the Shaolin monks.

    You're again making up stuff.



    People say a lot of things without actually knowing.
    I suggest you do some research on YJJ. The nourishing of the tendons is a well-known aspect of YJJ and that is partly where the name is derived from.

    After Bodhidharma died, they found the YJJ and Xi Sui Jing manuals in his coffin. It is said that Bodhidharma developed the YJJ during his lifetime to improve the physical well-being of the Shaolin monks. YJJ was meant as a strengthening and nourishing of the muscles and tendons through Qi and Xi Sui Jing was meant as a meditation/cultivation technique.

  20. #20
    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    I don't give a whit what OUTSIDE literature has on YJJ. If you can't provide information that JY's version is like that, then it's extrapolation that you just MADE UP.



    While you're right about YJJ being found after Bodhidharma had died, XAJH makes it clear that it had to be studied hard before it became useful as a martial art. And you're missing completely the fact that all Shaolin martial arts were intended to strengthen the monks' bodies.

    Even though the name of our school’s martial arts skills is widely known, it is, in fact, only a superficial study that is extremely insignificant. First Ancestor Bodhidharma only taught his apprentices ways to strength and invigorate their bodies. When the body is strengthened, the mind becomes clever, and when the mind becomes clever, the easier it is to comprehend.
    “After First Ancestor passed away and returned to Heaven, Second Ancestor stumped upon a volume of Buddhist scripture by First Ancestor’s cattail hassock, and that was the Tendon Altering Sutra. This volume had very abstruse argumentation and principles, and even after Second Ancestor studied it assiduously, he still could not understand it. But he knew that if First Ancestor Bodhidharma had left this volume of scripture next to the stonewall after nine years of strict meditation it simply had to be extraordinary, even though it had few words.
    One day, with the ultimate Karma, Second Ancestor was able to meet an Indian monk named Bancimidi on Mount Emei in Szechwan, and when they discussed Buddhist studies, they were congenial to each other. So Second Ancestor took out the Tendon Altering Sutra and studied intensively together with Bancimidi on top of the Golden Peak of Mount Emei. The two eminent Buddhist monks enlightened and inspired each other a great deal and were able to gain a thorough understanding after forty-nine days.”
    “But what Great Master Bancimidi explained were mostly theories of Zen. It was after another twelve years, when Second Ancestor chanced upon a young martial arts expert in the city of Chang-An and after a thorough discussion that lasted three days and three nights, was he able to apprehend the profound martial arts theories in the Tendon Altering Sutra to the full extent.”

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