Was Madame Ma infertile?

[Ken Cheng]

Prince Deun Jing Tsun of Dali was notoriously virile. He sired a child with nearly every woman he became involved with. From Dali to Gong Nam, he had at least a half dozen known children with different women.

The one exception was Madame Ma, who was known to have a voracious sexual appetite of her own, and whose men included not only Deun Jing Tsun, but also Bak Sai Geng of the Beggar's Union as well as her legitimate husband, Deputy Beggar's Union Chief Ma Dai Yuan and likely Cheun Gwoon Ching. Had Madame Ma had her way, she would have had Kiu Fung as well.

And yet all these men, including Deun Jing Tsun, whose gametes surpassed his 1 Yeung Finger Technique martial art, never conceived a child with Madame Ma.

Was this notoriously voluptuous woman infertile?

[Suet Seung]

She might be barren; however, it's possible that whenever she becomes pregnant, she could take herbal medicines that would abort the unborn baby. That or some of the men she slept with is impotent. I think you have to consider the timing in the month or so, there's no guarentee that one night can produce anything.

Ken, you are a curious old man. Do you know how old Madame Ma is? Maybe her biological clock has gone off and therefore, can't reproduce.

[atlantean0208]

Was this notoriously voluptuous woman infertile?

She is using a morning after pill or something similar or she prolly already mastered the SAoPOS (Supreme Art of Pushing Out Semen). Anyway it's indeed rhyme with menopause so I'm sure those are related. It should be easy to be done by regulating chi at a right direction. I guess a little bit of QKDNY - level 0.05 can be some added help

ARTS

[Ken Cheng]

She might be barren

That's what I suspect.

however, it's possible that whenever she becomes pregnant, she could take herbal medicines that would abort the unborn baby.

That is also possible.

That or some of the men she slept with is impotent.

By sheer volume, you'd figure at least a few of them weren't...and Deun Jing Tsun *definitely* wasn't. If even Deun Jing Tsun couldn't impregnate her, then most likely, Madame Ma was biologically incapable of reproduction.

I think you have to consider the timing in the month or so, there's no guarentee that one night can produce anything.

No, but considering Madame Ma's sexual appetite and her multiple paramours, one of whom was *Deun Jing Tsun*, it's sort of unlikely that a child wasn't conceived any one of those times.

Ken, you are a curious old man. Do you know how old Madame Ma is? Maybe her biological clock has gone off and therefore, can't reproduce.

She didn't seem that old. By the time of her death in DGSD, I don't think she had even reached forty yet.

[Han Solo]

IIRC, Madame Ma aborted the pregnancy that she had with Prince Duan- So he did score 100% with the women in the novel.

Han Solo

[Ken Cheng]

IIRC, Madame Ma aborted the pregnancy that she had with Prince Duan- So he did score 100% with the women in the novel.

Han Solo

Heh. All right. Well, that answers the question, then.

And yes, Deun Jing Tsun remains perfect from the line.

[mawguy]

IIRC, Madame Ma aborted the pregnancy that she had with Prince Duan- So he did score 100% with the women in the novel.

Han Solo

that, or she gave birth and then strangled the child to death. i forget which.

[Ren Wo Xing]

I think she drowned the child.

[CC]

Heh. All right. Well, that answers the question, then.

And yes, Deun Jing Tsun remains perfect from the line.

He did not score a baby with the one that mattered though. The official Empress/wife.

[Guo Xiang]

He did not score a baby with the one that mattered though. The official Empress/wife.

True enough. I was about to say she's barren when I recalled there's a Duan Yu. Weird.

[atlantean0208]

True enough. I was about to say she's barren when I recalled there's a Duan Yu. Weird.

DYQ is more manly than DZC LOL

[Ren Wo Xing]

Hey, Duan Yanqing is the rightful heir to the throne. In some ways, I think it shows heaven's will in JY's novels; neither Duan Zhengming nor Duan Zhengchun had sons, whereas the one chance Duan Yanqing had at getting laid, he knocked it out of the ballpark.

[Ken Cheng]

Hey, Duan Yanqing is the rightful heir to the throne. In some ways, I think it shows heaven's will in JY's novels; neither Duan Zhengming nor Duan Zhengchun had sons, whereas the one chance Duan Yanqing had at getting laid, he knocked it out of the ballpark.

"Heaven" has a funny way of getting its will done. If it had intended from the beginning for Deun Yin Hing and his heirs to be the rulers of Dali, then why ruin Deun Yin Hing's life and turn him into a villainous outcast? Why promote Deun Jing Ming and Deun Jing Tsun, who were honorable men who did good work as Dali's rulers, only to have them learn later on that their rule was "illegitimate?"

This is one of those, "Was this trip really necessary?" queries.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Maybe Duan Yanqing himself simply didn't have the temperament/destiny to be Emperor, which is why he was skipped over? I mean, his actions after losing the position certainly weren't very impressive in terms of being a testament to his character...

[Ken Cheng]

Maybe Duan Yanqing himself simply didn't have the temperament/destiny to be Emperor, which is why he was skipped over? I mean, his actions after losing the position certainly weren't very impressive in terms of being a testament to his character...

I suppose not, but it could also be argued that Deun Yin Hing might never have turned to evil had his life turned out the way it was supposed to. Deun Yin Hing strikes me as an individual who chose evil out of circumstance rather than nature.

[CC]

IMHO, it was a forced plot device.

DYQ had to really misunderstand his 2 cousins if he went straight to evil instead of communicating a simple 'Hey I am still alive and ermm, thats MY throne your butt is on'. He simply did not even conceive of such a notion.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Which is why I think he probably had huge character flaws which enabled him to become that evil; the idea of simply 'asking' for his throne back never occurred to him, because if the situations were reversed, he would not have been so nice as to return the stolen throne.

Classic case of 'using a scoundrel's heart to divine a gentleman's intestine'.

[Suet Seung]

Hm...In a sense, DYQ resembles Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader and Duan Yu is like Luke Skywalker. Father went to the dark side and there's that whole "Luke, I am you're father" type scene in DGSD too.

Classic case of 'using a scoundrel's heart to divine a gentleman's intestine'.

Isn't it "Using a scoundrel's heart to measure a gentleman's heart"? Umm however you translate it.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Isn't it "Using a scoundrel's heart to measure a gentleman's heart"? Umm however you translate it.

The exact character used is '腹', which means stomach/abdomen/intestines. Chinese is a wonderfully poetic language . Since I was using a quote, I figured I'd stick with a more literally translated one. If I wanted to go non-literal, I probably would gone with "Using a scoundrel's mind to divine a gentleman's intentions."

[Suet Seung]

The exact character used is '腹', which means stomach/abdomen/intestines. Chinese is a wonderfully poetic language . Since I was using a quote, I figured I'd stick with a more literally translated one. If I wanted to go non-literal, I probably would gone with "Using a scoundrel's mind to divine a gentleman's intentions."

What do you mean by divine? I know what the word means, but in that context?