Hypothetical: Hui Juk tests 6 Yeung Divine Palms, Hong Lung 28 Palms, and MGGPs.

[timeless]

Actually I do think that XZ's internal energy is higher than ZWJ's. By how much? Don't know. Since ZWJ's internal was the highest of the condor trilogy trio, he'd rank the closest to XZ's internal. But I don't know how close.

By each story's ending, Xz's internal is quite arguably higher than Zwj's but Zwj was much younger than Xz and by virtue of internal builing 9Yangzj, he was already the highest throughout Wulin, so one can only imagine how strong Zwj will get when he's older.

[CC]

By each story's ending, Xz's internal is quite arguably higher than Zwj's but Zwj was much younger than Xz and by virtue of internal builing 9Yangzj, he was already the highest throughout Wulin, so one can only imagine how strong Zwj will get when he's older.

At the end of DGSD, Xu Zhu was only 23 years old. Thats about the same as ZWJ.

As for this line 'Xz's internal is quite arguably higher than Zwj's'...

Well, I would phrase it as 'Xz's internal is quite arguably THREE TIMES higher than Zwj's'

[WuxiaMaster]

XZ has 200 YEARS of internal...

That's more than TWICE of Zhang REAL MAN, even if we let ZSF start cultivating internal since 1 year old.

[timeless]

XZ has 200 YEARS of internal...

That's more than TWICE of Zhang REAL MAN, even if we let ZSF start cultivating internal since 1 year old.

Did JY ever evinced that qualitatively every year of cultivated internal energies by the Xiaoyao Elders were at superhuman rate of power? Those transmitted internal energies whether it took 200 or 300 years to reached turned Xz from a internally powerless person into a Great- were enablers that helped him to learn the Xiaoyao Sect's unique martial arts. Xz was a Great like any other, even if his internal energy was higher than most other greats. Surely, the people at Xiaoyaopai would be more busy enjoying themselves than working that hard to build power, those that did used like Tianshantonglao expended some of it to make themselves young or else prolonged their lives.

There 's always a plateau for the peak/pinnacle reached. I see it this way because these are human beings not Kryptonians, which is why i beg to differ that Xz's internal power was 200-300% that of a Great while its highly certain that its higher than most but not in those kind of proportions.

[flamer]

For someone cultivating their own internal 'normally', the plateau effect would be the case. But for XZ, he had his internal energy INJECTED into him. So thats different.

[CC]

If XZ was subject to the 'Plateau Effect', JY wouldn't have included the fact that multiple full strength blows from JMZ did not dent XZ.

Besides, aside from the Divine Sweeper Monk, XZ was the only other person in all of JY's stories to have a FREAKING FORCE FIELD!!!

[ChronoReverse]

To be more clear, a force field against someone with the power level of JMZ (which is at least Great class).

[person135]

XZ probably has more internal than a greats level, but is there any evidence that each XY elder was at greats level? they could be sub great level, and 3 of them together would still add up to be higher than a great's internal.

ZWJ's internal is higher than a normal great's internal. his internal is definitely higher than GJ's and YG's. but i duno how it compares to XZ's.
and I thought ZWJ was only 19 at the end of HSDS...

[Ken Cheng]

ZWJ's internal is higher than a normal great's internal. his internal is definitely higher than GJ's and YG's.

I think this is possibly true, but not *definitely*. Judging from Cheung 3 Fung's remarks, we only know for sure that Cheung Mo Gei's inner power was at least Gwok Jing/Yeung Gor-class, not that it was necessary above that class.

[Ken Cheng]

and I thought ZWJ was only 19 at the end of HSDS...

He was twenty when he came out of that cave where he had trained in the 9 Yeung Jen Ging for five years, and another few years passed between that point and the end of the story.

[person135]

I think this is possibly true, but not *definitely*. Judging from Cheung 3 Fung's remarks, we only know for sure that Cheung Mo Gei's inner power was at least Gwok Jing/Yeung Gor-class, not that it was necessary above that class.

it'd be kinda weird if his internal just stopped going up after learning 9yang though. true he didn't do much training, but he learned a whole bunch of martial arts afterwards, and based just on that, his internal is bound to have increased a bit.

[ChronoReverse]

The reason it shot up so high and fast in the first place is because he did NOTHING except train it for 5 years in isolation (I'm kinda surprised he's so well-adjusted when that's considered). Even then, it took a heavenly bag treatment to bring out the power.

There's no reason to believe that ZWJ won't continue to improve of course, but the rate will no longer be even close to as good.

[person135]

you're kind of stating the obvious i think. i'm not talking about how quickly his internal improved in the beginning. every1 knows that his internal shot up from almost nothing to huge levels. probably needed the bag cuz 9yang gives so much internal, even compared to other internal energy skills.

and its obvious that zwj's internal will improve relatively slowly after 9yang. what isn't right is if his internal just stops increasing after learning 9yang, in which case he'll probably end up with more than GJ/YG since he was already at their levels in the first place.

[Ken Cheng]

you're kind of stating the obvious i think. i'm not talking about how quickly his internal improved in the beginning. every1 knows that his internal shot up from almost nothing to huge levels. probably needed the bag cuz 9yang gives so much internal, even compared to other internal energy skills.

and its obvious that zwj's internal will improve relatively slowly after 9yang. what isn't right is if his internal just stops increasing after learning 9yang, in which case he'll probably end up with more than GJ/YG since he was already at their levels in the first place.

What you're *trying* to say (but not fully succeeding in saying) is that Cheung Mo Gei reached the level of inner power that Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor did in ROCH much earlier in life than they did, which isn't a matter of dispute.

In fact, each generation of the CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY Greats seemed to do it younger and younger.

Original Greats: not until they were in their eighties or older.

Gwok Jing: in his fifties

Yeung Gor: in his thirties

Cheung Mo Gei: in his early twenties

Still, it was the same level. What happens after that is speculation.

[ChronoReverse]

you're kind of stating the obvious i think. i'm not talking about how quickly his internal improved in the beginning. every1 knows that his internal shot up from almost nothing to huge levels. probably needed the bag cuz 9yang gives so much internal, even compared to other internal energy skills.

That's not the point. We can only compare the characters as they are in the novel. Otherwise, we could start talking about DY draining XZ or LHC mastering YJJ and draining all the bad folk in wulin.

ZWJ will eventually surpass the level of YG and GJ as we saw them but that didn't happen during the time of the novel nor do we know how much further he will progress. We don't even know how long he lives past the end of the novel or whether he spends time training 9 Yang or just frolicks with ZM and ZRR.


What we do know for sure is that he was in the same class as YG and GJ in the novel. This is the only part that is relevant because the rest is speculation.

[timeless]

In fact, each generation of the CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY Greats seemed to do it younger and younger.

Original Greats: not until they were in their eighties or older.

Gwok Jing: in his fifties

Yeung Gor: in his thirties

Cheung Mo Gei: in his early twenties

Still, it was the same level. What happens after that is speculation.

This sharp observation seems to elude most readers though Gj's case was due more to 9yinzj boost and his applicational build up from of other arts ((not Mastery) like how he was taught Peach Blossom Island arts.

Let us suppose if Gj were to work on all those top skills he was favored with than preoccupied with Xiangyang, he 'll be better than Yg because Gj got it better much much better- Gj was bequeathed the best martial arts (except 9Yangzj & QKDNY) of his time and most attention from many top exponents. Unlike poor Yg,who had to rely more on himself thereafter from all those bits and semi-half baked pointers from the Greats/personal observational studies to add up to what he had learnt from Gumu Sect and the basics of Toad skill.

[CC]

XZ probably has more internal than a greats level, but is there any evidence that each XY elder was at greats level? they could be sub great level, and 3 of them together would still add up to be higher than a great's internal.

ZWJ's internal is higher than a normal great's internal. his internal is definitely higher than GJ's and YG's. but i duno how it compares to XZ's.
and I thought ZWJ was only 19 at the end of HSDS...

For the nth time.

1. Most if not all of the evidence points to The XY Elders having MORE internal than any of the Greats. e.g. 50 Foot LDA, more powerful voice transmission than Yideng, longer and more complete XWXG training compared to JMZ, ability to resist DCQ poisons when Xuan Monks dropped like flies etc etc.

How about you respond to this question then? Is there ANY concrete evidence that ZWJ has MORE internal than say Tian Shan Tong Lao or even Duan Yanqing?

2. You keep making a deal about ZWJ improving after the novel end. Well, so can Xu Zhu. They are about the same age anyway. Besides, if you want to speculate, it is not known if ZWJ even lived past 25 yrs of age (maybe he got struck by lightning 2 days after the novel ended or something, since we are all speculating) while it was known that XZ lived on many years after DGSD's end until the Beggar Sect found someone worthy to look for him.

And even in the novel timeline itself, Xu Zhu had a freaking force field. ZWJ didn't come close to that.

[Ken Cheng]

How about you respond to this question then? Is there ANY concrete evidence that ZWJ has MORE internal than say Tian Shan Tong Lao or even Duan Yanqing?

Whoa, whoa...let's back up here. Teen San Tung Lo, I'll give you, but Deun Yin Hing? Previous discussions have already established that Deun Yin Hing was considerably below the level of his great grandson, the eventual South Monk 1 Deng. At the end of HSDS, Cheung Mo Gei was certainly no weaker than end-of-ROCH 1 Deng.

[timeless]

XZ probably has more internal than a greats level, but is there any evidence that each XY elder was at greats level? they could be sub great level, and 3 of them together would still add up to be higher than a great's internal.

Wuyazi was the only person, before Dy, who had the complete mastery of Beimingshengong- internal energy sucking techniques that can drain the power off opponents. Rebel Dcq who knew the principles of Xiaoyaopai's martial arts, came up with his own version called Huagongdafa- negating the opponent's internal power instead of absorbing it.

If Tstl & Lqs, who were said to be Greats level, how is it that the internal energies transmitted from them as well as Wuyazi's onto Xz's body did not let Xz dealt with Dcq as easily and swiftly as if he was a 300% Great fighting a 100% Great like Dcq, who was junior to both Tstl & Lcs, without having to deploy the Shenshifu- on top of all the external martial arts he learnt.


The 200 years' worth of internal energies transmitted needs to be seen not so much in qualitative time power than as telling us that Xz was just handed down very high internal power - as a short cut way of distinguishing him from that longer route taken by Dy who had to sucked up just as much high internal from far more many people.

[Ken Cheng]

a 100% Great like Dcq.

Ding Chun Chou was weaker than a CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY Great. He was at around the same level as Deun Yin Hing, who in turn was weaker than his descendant Deun Chi Hing/1 Deng.