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Thread: Save your loved one or X number of ppl?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Batman View Post
    You called?

    Yeah, I'd sacrifice the one to save the many. Either way, it'd be hard to live down, but I can't stand seeing large numbers of people suffer when I *know* that I had the opportunity to affect the outcome.
    Ken, so you would sacrifice all your family (your wife, children, parents, siblings, relative, cousins, ect...) to save 1 billions strangers who you don't even know? I can't.

  2. #22
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    Ken, so you would sacrifice all your family (your wife, children, parents, siblings, relative, cousins, ect...) to save 1 billions strangers who you don't even know? I can't.
    Yeah...because that number of one billion is just too staggeringly horrific not to.

    If I let those one billion die, I'd easily be worse than any mass murderer or dictator you can think of: Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Genghis Khan...add up ALL the people they've killed and it wouldn't be a drop in the bucket compared to the number of deaths I'd be responsible for.

    I would not be able to live with the knowledge that I'd allowed such a thing to come to pass.

  3. #23
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    Isn't there a difference between actively killing someone and passively letting someone die?
    ok

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by asdf View Post
    Isn't there a difference between actively killing someone and passively letting someone die?
    Yes, but if acting could have prevented those deaths, that difference is academic.

    Benjamin Franklin once said, "All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing. "

    He was right.

  5. #25
    Senior Member remember_Cedric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    Ken, so you would sacrifice all your family (your wife, children, parents, siblings, relative, cousins, ect...) to save 1 billions strangers who you don't even know? I can't.
    The smartest way out is to save my loved ones and flop the strangers, isn't it?
    What can I say? I'm still standing! No weapon against me shall prosper! I am more than a conqueror!!!

    I don't care to sit by the window on an airplane. If I can't control it, why look?

  6. #26
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    Yeah but in law, there is a difference between attempted murder and actual murder, first degree murder and second degree murder, etc. etc. If you watch someone kill your enemy and you just laugh without calling 911, you may have legal responsibiltiies, but certainly not as much as if you went and stabbed them with a knife.
    ok

  7. #27
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asdf View Post
    Yeah but in law, there is a difference between attempted murder and actual murder, first degree murder and second degree murder, etc. etc. If you watch someone kill your enemy and you just laugh without calling 911, you may have legal responsibiltiies, but certainly not as much as if you went and stabbed them with a knife.
    Still wouldn't be something to want to live with, though. "Comparatively less morally reprehensible" is by no means "not at all morally reprehensible."

    And given the sheer numbers, I doubt the one who passively allowed a billion to die would be judged more kindly than those who actively murdered millions.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Cesare's Avatar
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    This is one of those dilemmas I hope I will never have to face...;-)
    I'm a fairly selfish being, so I guess I'd choose my loved one - but I'm not sure I'd be able to live with myself after that...
    I'm one of those who *do* like GJ better, y'know...
    别想把黑暗放在我的面前
    太阳已经生长在我心底
    不再有封闭的畏惧
    奔腾的灵魂飞上天际
    太阳 我在这里

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Batman View Post
    Still wouldn't be something to want to live with, though. "Comparatively less morally reprehensible" is by no means "not at all morally reprehensible."

    And given the sheer numbers, I doubt the one who passively allowed a billion to die would be judged more kindly than those who actively murdered millions.
    The thing is:
    It's not against the law if you choose to save your loved ones over a billion strangers. The law can't do anything about it. On the other hand, if you murder millions, you would be the most wanted criminal.

    If I were in that situation, I would save my loved ones first then try my best to save others. If it was unable to save that 1 billion people, then all I can say is "sorry", but I can live with my decision without regret.

  10. #30
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    The thing is:
    It's not against the law if you choose to save your loved ones over a billion strangers. The law can't do anything about it. On the other hand, if you murder millions, you would be the most wanted criminal.
    Justice is more important than law.

    They are not necessarily the same thing, unfortunately. What's legal isn't necessarily just; what's just isn't necessarily legal.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Batman View Post
    Justice is more important than law.

    They are not necessarily the same thing, unfortunately. What's legal isn't necessarily just; what's just isn't necessarily legal.
    But life is about legal and law, not just nor compassion.
    Some lefties might argue that consuming shark fin is worse than smoking pot, but consuming shark fin is legal while smoking pot is not.
    Last edited by Trien Chieu; 02-21-09 at 12:16 AM.

  12. #32
    Senior Member xJadedx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    But life is about legal and law, not just nor compassion.
    Some lefties might argue that consuming shark fin is worse than smoking pot, but consuming shark fin is legal while smoking pot is not.
    You sort of missed his point, but whatever.

    What's legal doesn't always mean justice or even what's right. There are a ton of weird laws even in Canada, and not all of them make sense. So just because it's law doesn't mean you need to rigidly follow it and never question it.
    Because I'm somewhere in between,
    My love and my agony.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded WenEr View Post
    You sort of missed his point, but whatever.
    "Sort of?"

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    But life is about legal and law, not just nor compassion.
    Some lefties might argue that consuming shark fin is worse than smoking pot, but consuming shark fin is legal while smoking pot is not.
    People without religion, or a moral value to follow, needs to solely rely on law and legality.
    What can I say? I'm still standing! No weapon against me shall prosper! I am more than a conqueror!!!

    I don't care to sit by the window on an airplane. If I can't control it, why look?

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by remember_Cedric View Post
    People without religion, or a moral value to follow, needs to solely rely on law and legality.
    People with religion and so call great moral values, I would like to know how many speeding tickets did they get so far? So far, for more than 10 years of driving, I got one speeding ticket, drove 69 km/h on 50 km/h zone.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    People with religion and so call great moral values, I would like to know how many speeding tickets did they get so far? So far, for more than 10 years of driving, I got one speeding ticket, drove 69 km/h on 50 km/h zone.
    Well, I didn't intend to include "great" when talking with you since you're way far from it, but I thought basic was quite enough. I have no idea where you get that "statistics" of, uh, you and your likes get less speeding tickets in compare but people who only think within the triangle can have the worries of driving too fast then only to find themselves flying off some cliff (just like a simple backpack trip could end yourself in hell). how do you relate with religion and moral values on that one, *shrugs* and I don't wanna know. I rest my case.
    Last edited by remember_Cedric; 02-21-09 at 03:10 AM.
    What can I say? I'm still standing! No weapon against me shall prosper! I am more than a conqueror!!!

    I don't care to sit by the window on an airplane. If I can't control it, why look?

  17. #37
    Senior Member Tom's Avatar
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    I would probably choose the lives of a billion people over my loved one. Life is never just about me. I don't want to do something that will only make me happy as opposed to all the family/friends/lovers of those billion people.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    People with religion and so call great moral values, I would like to know how many speeding tickets did they get so far?
    So far, none.

    I would save the billions as well. If I were my loved one, I'd choose to die so the mass could live. But that's just me.

  19. #39
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    You guys got this all wrong.

    The REAL question is whether the X people know that you did the deed (saved their collective behinds).

    If the X have no clue that you are responsible for their next breath, then clearly, their ignorance condemns them to Tartarus for all eternity.

    However, if the X know that you are their lord and savior, you can easily turn the situation to your advantage. Clearly, there exists some X where the marginal benefit from X people is greater than the singular benefit from your loved one. Harem, anyone?

  20. #40
    Senior Member Ghaleon's Avatar
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    hey you can't do that, that's cheating! lol.
    we're assuming you aren't thinking about the personal benefits you'll possibly gain.

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