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Thread: Save your loved one or X number of ppl?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Filial piety is wonderful, but even that has to take a back seat to basic human decency, and there's nothing decent at all about complicity in genocide.
    Ken, I am not talking about killing the "one billion" so that my loved ones can live. I talk about choosing to save my loved ones over the "one billion" strangers. I owe them absolutely nothing. I would save my loved ones first then try to save them afterward. No government in the world can go after me as I didn't break any law.

  2. #62
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    You've got the cart before the horse. Justice first, then the law. If the law doesn't serve justice, it's an empty vessel.

    I'd be a liar if I told you I don't have my self-interests (you all know better than that), but I haven't yet reached a level of self-importance where I've come to believe that my circle of loved ones somehow deserve to live *more* than a sixth of the world.

    If I ever reach that level of self-importance, for the love of all that's decent in this world, just put a gun to my head and put me out of the world's misery.

  3. #63
    Senior Member remember_Cedric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    a) Saving the strangers while letting loved ones die is samaritan b) while saving the loved ones is hardheartedness?
    Are you having problems with comprehension? What I meant was, a) and b) doesn't brush shoulders with each other in such situation.

    If so, I rather be the hardheartedness than an ingrate or unfilial son. filial piety is very very important to me.
    You see, we the human race, is born with a head of complex mechanisms in our head. Such complexity allow us to judge when situation arrives.

    My friend, if you could only judge single-headedly instead of weighing the pros and cons - that's just too bad. I would imagine if there were innocent kids involved in the diseaster which I might just save the innocent lot of kids.

    I appreciate it if you are really filial but you need to extend alittle more imagination to make any sound judgment.

    Quote Originally Posted by KC
    Filial piety is wonderful, but even that has to take a back seat to basic human decency
    Here, TC, your hero says it all.

    Quote Originally Posted by KC
    If I ever reach that level of self-importance, for the love of all that's decent in this world, just put a gun to my head and put me out of the world's misery
    Words of wisdom. I'm considering to make this my signature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    Ken, I am not talking about killing the "one billion" so that my loved ones can live. I talk about choosing to save my loved ones over the "one billion" strangers. I owe them absolutely nothing. I would save my loved ones first then try to save them afterward. No government in the world can go after me as I didn't break any law.
    TC, you sat on your own balls. Similarly, Pemberly isn't saying she's gonna kill her own folks in order to save the other lot, yes? So, just because she can't hold the hands of her love ones in time to save them, doesn't make her unfilial!
    Last edited by remember_Cedric; 11-16-09 at 04:49 AM.
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  4. #64
    Senior Member Extremer88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    Let say X = 1 billion people.
    So you would let your children (if you have any), parents who raised you and always love you with all their hearts, sibblings who grew up with you and ect.. die. You would rather save those strangers who don't give a shit about you whatsoever. It's extremely unlucky to be your loved ones because to you they are worth less than those strangers.
    I believe Trien is being rational here. As the saying goes, blood is thicker than water. The rational decision would be to - saved your loved or closer ones first. Think about others later. And the others that we are talking about are COMPLETE STRANGERS. What if these Strangers were bad guys? Is it worth sacrificing your loved ones for them?

    It is a big question mark here. Think of it. Would they appreciate your kind gesture? Will these people remember you for their entire lives? How will they repay back - physically? Or in material terms? Even so, will you be happy emotionally due to the loss of your loved ones?
    ..ext88

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    Quote Originally Posted by remember_Cedric View Post
    Here, TC, your hero says it all.
    I respect Ken as a person doesn't mean I have to agree with him in everything.

    TC, you sat on your own balls. Similarly, Pemberly isn't saying she's gonna kill her own folks in order to save the other lot, yes? So, just because she can't hold the hands of her love ones in time to save them, doesn't make her unfilial!
    To me, family first. Letting my parents who love me with all their hearts to die while saving the strangers is something I will never ever do. If the table is turned, I do not expect those strangers going to save me over their loved ones either. For the strangers, I will save them if I can, but not over my family though. I won't lose my sleep over it. Canadian justice system can't do anything about it. Saving loved ones over strangers is common sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Extremer88 View Post
    I believe Trien is being rational here. As the saying goes, blood is thicker than water. The rational decision would be to - saved your loved or closer ones first. Think about others later. And the others that we are talking about are COMPLETE STRANGERS. What if these Strangers were bad guys? Is it worth sacrificing your loved ones for them?
    The strangers could be anyone. They range from child rapists, serial killers to the most charitable people in the world.

    It is a big question mark here. Think of it. Would they appreciate your kind gesture? Will these people remember you for their entire lives? How will they repay back - physically? Or in material terms? Even so, will you be happy emotionally due to the loss of your loved ones?
    It's assumed that these strangers have no clue of what going on but your loved ones know what is going on. You won't get any reward for saving the strangers over your loved ones. Don't ever think about becoming a selfless hero and receive billion for saving the strangers over your loved ones.

  7. #67
    Senior Member pemberly's Avatar
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    i don't help others for rewards or acknowledgment. and like i said, i'm sure my family would be very willing to sacrifice themselves for a billion people. i'm not looking for some kind or reward, nor do i have some kind of hidden vendetta against my family, but it's a billion people! think of how many mothers, fathers, children of others that is.
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    Senior Member jiang bao's Avatar
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    Another hypothetical scenario that I cannot answer. I can easily say Iíd pick the X number of people or my family, but until the situation actually comes up, I donít know.

    If it was my life for one billion lives, I think I would save the billion people, but in the proposed scenario, Iíd be making the decision for my loved onesí lives, and thatís a little different.
    What are you fighting for? Just mix them into pissing beef balls, stupid.
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    Senior Member remember_Cedric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extremer88 View Post
    I believe Trien is being rational here. As the saying goes, blood is thicker than water. The rational decision would be to - saved your loved or closer ones first. Think about others later. And the others that we are talking about are COMPLETE STRANGERS. What if these Strangers were bad guys? Is it worth sacrificing your loved ones for them?
    I would use -usual practice- rather than -rational- in here. Simply put, that's him. Let's visualise something realistic: When you're in a Chaos and away from your home, can you really run all the way home and save your folks, completely ignoring everyone around you, even children outthere? My -usual practice aka instinct- tells me "likely not".

    I work and spend most of my time at outdoor so as we speak of such senario, I imagine myself away from my home rather than holding hands with them and staying at home, then an earthquake happened when I just let go of my folks' hand and left for the loo.

    It is a big question mark here. Think of it. Would they appreciate your kind gesture? Will these people remember you for their entire lives? How will they repay back - physically? Or in material terms? Even so, will you be happy emotionally due to the loss of your loved ones?
    I'm used to giving without looking forward to any return. Appreciate my kind gesture (if I had made a choice to save them before my folks)? So what if they do, and so what if they don't? It doesn't bother me. (So, where are the Buddhists when we think about Karma?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    To me, family first. Letting my parents who love me with all their hearts to die while saving the strangers is something I will never ever do. If the table is turned, I do not expect those strangers going to save me over their loved ones either. For the strangers, I will save them if I can, but not over my family though.
    I'd appreciate such practice of yours. I trully do, not being sarcastic and no pun intended.

    I won't lose my sleep over it. Canadian justice system can't do anything about it.

    Saving loved ones over strangers is common sense.
    I know, this is nothing new.

    When time comes, decisions are made based on instinct rather than common sense. I'm not sure if you'd have enough time to think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    The strangers could be anyone. They range from child rapists, serial killers to the most charitable people in the world.

    It's assumed that these strangers have no clue of what going on but your loved ones know what is going on. You won't get any reward for saving the strangers over your loved ones. Don't ever think about becoming a selfless hero and receive billion for saving the strangers over your loved ones.
    I'd so repeat again as I see the need: it has been my practice that, at any time, I'm ready to do something disregarding a reward.

    Then again, when I'm certain of my family's safety, I'd save an animal over a human race because the animal is certainly innocent and can't be a rapist.
    Last edited by remember_Cedric; 11-16-09 at 01:09 PM.
    What can I say? I'm still standing! No weapon against me shall prosper! I am more than a conqueror!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by pemberly View Post
    i'd save the X amount of ppl, if it were like, truly a lot of people. not like, 3 or anything. i'm sure my loved one would understand.
    It's indeed very unlucky to be your loved ones because they are worth less than strangers. I would be very disappointed if my loved one care about me less than strangers.

  11. #71
    Senior Member pemberly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    It's indeed very unlucky to be your loved ones because they are worth less than strangers. I would be very disappointed if my loved one care about me less than strangers.
    well, i guess i'm lucky we're not related. i don't want the great TC to be disappointed in me! oh noes....
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    Senior Member Trinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    It's indeed very unlucky to be your loved ones because they are worth less than strangers. I would be very disappointed if my loved one care about me less than strangers.
    I can kind of see what you are saying. Even though you have loved ones, other people do as well.... If they lost their loved ones, they will be sad just like you when you lose your loved ones. I actually kind of think that your way of thinking is kind of selfish, but hey why I am surprised at all??
    Respect other people's opinions and views. If we learn how to do that than all of these fights and arguments will not occur.

  13. #73
    Senior Member Trinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    It's indeed very unlucky to be your loved ones because they are worth less than strangers. I would be very disappointed if my loved one care about me less than strangers.
    I don't think you should say that because it also depends on the situation as well. I agree that family should be and are the most important people to you, but you have to think of others at times as well. When you are in trouble, lots of "strangers" that are good samaritans would reach out and help you so why would you not help them?? But I do know it is hard to pick them over your family, however, wouldn't you feel guilty if you just saved your loved ones and then just let others die? Their family will then be sad as well since they lost their loved ones... I always believed that "tian gen ben dou shi yi jia ren", however, that is just my way of thinking...ALso, you really don't know if those strangers are good or bad people but you should not just assume that they are bad people and not help them.
    Last edited by Trinie; 11-16-09 at 03:25 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinie View Post
    I can kind of see what you are saying. Even though you have loved ones, other people do as well.... If they lost their loved ones, they will be sad just like you when you lose your loved ones. I actually kind of think that your way of thinking is kind of selfish, but hey why I am surprised at all??
    So you ask me to sacrifice my loved ones so other people can be happy?? The lives of my loved ones are worthless where as the lives of the strangers are precious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trinie View Post
    I don't think you should say that because it also depends on the situation as well. I agree that family should be and are the most important people to you, but you have to think of others at times as well. When you are in trouble, lots of "strangers" that are good samaritans would reach out and help you so why would you not help them?? But I do know it is hard to pick them over your family, however, wouldn't you feel guilty if you just saved your loved ones and then just let others die? Their family will then be sad as well since they lost their loved ones... I always believed that "tian gen ben dou shi yi jia ren", however, that is just my way of thinking...ALso, you really don't know if those strangers are good or bad people but you should not just assume that they are bad people and not help them.
    What is "tian gen ben dou shi yi jia ren"?

    When did I say I don't care about other people and rather let them die than save them? However, telling me to save them and let my family die is something I can't do. When did I say they are all bad people?? I say I would save my loved ones first then I will try my best to save the rest later. Yes, if I were in trouble, I would hope strangers to help me as well. However, I wouldn't blame the strangers if they help their loved ones first then me. I am not a selfless hero and I do not expect other be one as well. Trinie, be honest, would you save the strangers over your loved ones??
    Last edited by Trien Chieu; 11-16-09 at 04:20 PM.

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    double post

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    Senior Member remember_Cedric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    So you ask me to sacrifice my loved ones so other people can be happy?? The lives of my loved ones are worthless where as the lives of the strangers are precious?
    So, TC, if you're in a circumstances where you have to kill the strangers in order to save your family or let your family die if you won't kill the strangers, what would it be?

    Why do I felt like this is a stupid question.... when the answer is likely to be "kill the strangers".
    What can I say? I'm still standing! No weapon against me shall prosper! I am more than a conqueror!!!

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    Senior Member xJadedx's Avatar
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    To be fair, I think people are being too harsh with TC here (and I wonder if it's only because it's TC who posted). He didn't say that he didn't care about the lives of the strangers or that he thinks it's ok for them to die, he only thinks that if it was up to him, his family and loved ones matter more. There's nothing wrong with thinking that way, since for some people, loved ones and those you have emotional attachment to matter a lot more than strangers. There is no morally right or wrong choice in this situation, either is both right/wrong depending on how you see it.

    The situation is a pretty hypothetical one, and no one can know for certain how they would react if they were ever in such a situation. Even if you picked one or the other now, if you were ever in that situation, your reaction may be quite different.

    The only beef I have with TC's reasoning is that he is referencing the Canadian law too much - how you choose in this situation should depend on your own moral intuitions, not what's legal or not (since the law is not always an indicator of moral actions). Also, I'm not fond of him judging others for choosing otherwise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by remember_Cedric View Post
    So, TC, if you're in a circumstances where you have to kill the strangers in order to save your family or let your family die if you won't kill the strangers, what would it be?

    Why do I felt like this is a stupid question.... when the answer is likely to be "kill the strangers".
    No, I won't kill anyone for my family. I would try my best to rescue my loved ones, but not at the expense of the unknown innocent people.

  19. #79
    Senior Member forgot password's Avatar
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    You guys should watch the Saw movies. These movies are terrifying and disturbing but there're plenty of situtations in them that are quite similar to the topic of this thread in which a character had to choose between 2 almost mutually exclusive courses of action such as save yourself or save your family, pick only one out of several strangers to save his/her life and let the rest be killed, kill your biggest enemy or save your family, heavily damage yourself to save your life or wait to be killed, kill a stranger or lose your life, etc.

    Frankly, I would possibly not hesitate to kill if by doing so I can save my @ss.

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    Quote Originally Posted by forgot password View Post
    Frankly, I would possibly not hesitate to kill if by doing so I can save my @ss.
    I am not a selfless hero, but this is something I wouldn't do. I wouldn't kill innocent people just to save my life. It's wrong.

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