Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 115

Thread: Save your loved one or X number of ppl?

  1. #81
    Senior Member remember_Cedric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    right here, right now
    Posts
    3,541

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded WenEr View Post
    To be fair, I think people are being too harsh with TC here (and I wonder if it's only because it's TC who posted). He didn't say that he didn't care about the lives of the strangers or that he thinks it's ok for them to die, he only thinks that if it was up to him, his family and loved ones matter more. There's nothing wrong with thinking that way, since for some people, loved ones and those you have emotional attachment to matter a lot more than strangers. There is no morally right or wrong choice in this situation, either is both right/wrong depending on how you see it.
    Psychologically, it might be a yes.

    Then again, as harsh as we might be towards him, TC ain't no pushover and will come back stronger than ever..... no matter his posts make sense or not.

    The situation is a pretty hypothetical one, and no one can know for certain how they would react if they were ever in such a situation. Even if you picked one or the other now, if you were ever in that situation, your reaction may be quite different.
    It did cross my mind that, in that very situation I might be allowed to achieve minimum (within my ability and strength). In some situation, we might just feel helpless.

    The only beef I have with TC's reasoning is that he is referencing the Canadian law too much - how you choose in this situation should depend on your own moral intuitions, not what's legal or not (since the law is not always an indicator of moral actions). Also, I'm not fond of him judging others for choosing otherwise.
    I began to slingshot at his butt when he harshly commented on Pemberly's choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    No, I won't kill anyone for my family. I would try my best to rescue my loved ones, but not at the expense of the unknown innocent people.
    I'm semi-confident about this.

    Quote Originally Posted by forgot password View Post
    You guys should watch the Saw movies. These movies are terrifying and disturbing but there're plenty of situtations in them that are quite similar to the topic of this thread in which a character had to choose between 2 almost mutually exclusive courses of action such as save yourself or save your family, pick only one out of several strangers to save his/her life and let the rest be killed, kill your biggest enemy or save your family, heavily damage yourself to save your life or wait to be killed, kill a stranger or lose your life, etc.

    Frankly, I would possibly not hesitate to kill if by doing so I can save my @ss.
    Yes, I challenged that movie and find it disturbing. But it is rather interesting to visualise how we'd be when we put ourselves in their (the victims) shoes. We won't know if one fine day we'd be placed in such extreme situation.
    Last edited by remember_Cedric; 11-16-09 at 11:14 PM.
    What can I say? I'm still standing! No weapon against me shall prosper! I am more than a conqueror!!!

    I don't care to sit by the window on an airplane. If I can't control it, why look?

  2. #82
    Senior Member forgot password's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    449

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by remember_Cedric View Post
    Yes, I challenged that movie and find it disturbing. But it is rather interesting to visualise how we'd be when we put ourselves in their (the victims) shoes. We won't know if one fine day we'd be placed in such extreme situation.
    There're some 'simple' situations in the movies I think I would be able to overcome, for example kill a stranger or some to save my life, get my hands penetrated through by iron nails to save some people, dislocate my wrist/ankle joints to escape from a deadly trap... But most of the rest of them are just plainly horrible. No way in hell would I gouge out 1 of my eyeballs to get the implanted key that would save my life and some strangers, nor would I chop off one arm to escape. I'd rather die a quick death.

  3. #83
    Moderator kidd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Somewhere Out There
    Posts
    13,110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded WenEr View Post
    The only beef I have with TC's reasoning is that he is referencing the Canadian law too much - how you choose in this situation should depend on your own moral intuitions, not what's legal or not (since the law is not always an indicator of moral actions). Also, I'm not fond of him judging others for choosing otherwise.
    To be fair. Others are also judging him for choosing his family over the X number of people. Yes, he was referencing Canadian law, but, he was judging the situation through his own moral intuition. To him, filial piety is above everything else and he said so. But some people jump on him saying he's selfish and filial piety shouldn't be above human decency.

    Some of the people who criticise him haven't even make a stand themselves in this situation.


    Quote Originally Posted by remember_Cedric View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded WenEr
    To be fair, I think people are being too harsh with TC here (and I wonder if it's only because it's TC who posted). He didn't say that he didn't care about the lives of the strangers or that he thinks it's ok for them to die, he only thinks that if it was up to him, his family and loved ones matter more. There's nothing wrong with thinking that way, since for some people, loved ones and those you have emotional attachment to matter a lot more than strangers. There is no morally right or wrong choice in this situation, either is both right/wrong depending on how you see it.
    Psychologically, it might be a yes.
    It's not a 'might be'. It's a definite 'yes' in your case. You seem to just keep on criticising TC every step of the way in this thread, when he's not the only one who choose family over X people.
    Last edited by kidd; 11-17-09 at 01:29 AM.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

  4. #84
    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    ( @ )( @ )
    Posts
    4,651

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kidd View Post
    You seem to just keep on criticising TC every step of the way in this thread, when he's not the only one who choose family over X people.
    TC is like a clumsy guy in prison who keeps dropping his soap. He's not the only dude with a nice tush, but everyone knows why he keeps getting "picked on".
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

  5. #85
    Senior Member remember_Cedric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    right here, right now
    Posts
    3,541

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kidd View Post
    Some of the people who criticise him haven't even make a stand themselves in this situation.
    It can be a matter of usual practice for all you know. The things that we live by.

    Apparently, his mindset is "A tit for a tat. (A reward comes after a deed)" which I do emphasize some of us doesn't see life that way.

    It's not a 'might be'. It's a definite 'yes' in your case. You seem to just keep on criticising TC every step of the way in this thread, when he's not the only one who choose family over X people.
    I used 'might be' over 'yes' because I have yet to confirm when I was only in a moment of checking myself psychology while doing that post (do I have to make it so clear? *yawn*).

    I understand that you speak in his defence. But do read carefully on how it began and how it all falls along before phrasing as such.

    That last part, I know, and no one asked him to condemn the other when she chooses a lot of strangers over her family when she clearly mentioned she'd seek their understanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Candide View Post
    TC is like a clumsy guy in prison who keeps dropping his soap. He's not the only dude with a nice tush, but everyone knows why he keeps getting "picked on".
    That's funnily phrased!
    Last edited by remember_Cedric; 11-17-09 at 01:59 AM.
    What can I say? I'm still standing! No weapon against me shall prosper! I am more than a conqueror!!!

    I don't care to sit by the window on an airplane. If I can't control it, why look?

  6. #86
    Senior Member pemberly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    pimptown, USA
    Posts
    4,308

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kidd View Post
    To be fair. Others are also judging him for choosing his family over the X number of people. Yes, he was referencing Canadian law, but, he was judging the situation through his own moral intuition. To him, filial piety is above everything else and he said so. But some people jump on him saying he's selfish and filial piety shouldn't be above human decency.

    You seem to just keep on criticising TC every step of the way in this thread, when he's not the only one who choose family over X people.
    i think what's irking people is that not only is TC just stating his opinion and why, but he is denigrating other people's opinions and choices. if someone says they would choose to save the billion people over their families, he says things like

    It's indeed very unlucky to be your loved ones because they are worth less than strangers. I would be very disappointed if my loved one care about me less than strangers.
    nytimes: Every hr you have 10 minutes where youíre not doing anything productive at work, & you canít look at porn. So you make a comment & fulfill this desire to show yourself off as a smarty-pants.

  7. #87
    Senior Member Trinie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    5,521

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    So you ask me to sacrifice my loved ones so other people can be happy?? The lives of my loved ones are worthless where as the lives of the strangers are precious?



    What is "tian gen ben dou shi yi jia ren"?

    When did I say I don't care about other people and rather let them die than save them? However, telling me to save them and let my family die is something I can't do. When did I say they are all bad people?? I say I would save my loved ones first then I will try my best to save the rest later. Yes, if I were in trouble, I would hope strangers to help me as well. However, I wouldn't blame the strangers if they help their loved ones first then me. I am not a selfless hero and I do not expect other be one as well. Trinie, be honest, would you save the strangers over your loved ones??
    Well, I didn't say that you had to sacrifice your loved ones just so others can be happy. I guess what I was trying to say was that you should think of others and their loved ones as well instead of just yourself and your family. I also did NOT say that your loved ones lives are worthless and the lives others are precious ok? GEEZ...

    Basically,what that means in Viet is "Thien ha von la mot nha". Do you understand now???

    Honestly, I really don't know what I would do since I have not been in that situation yet. I think since it is hypothetical, we would all react differently if this situation actually hit us. We can all say anything now but when it actually happens, we would react differently..... It also depends on the situation as well. For example, I saw in Hier to the Throne is... There was a scene where Empress Dowager Lu was tricked by one of her evil officials that if she wanted to save her son, the current emperor, then he would have to drink blood from 3000 children. Therefore, she had to kill 3000 innocent children just to save the life of her one son. Honestly, IF it were me... I really don't think I would sacrifice 3000 children just for the one life of my son. Your children are the most important people to you, but I really don't think I would kill 3000 innocent just to save the life of my one son. She kept on telling him that everything she did was for him.... Since the king was kind and innocent, he just could not accept his mother doing such things and would rather die....I would miss and love my son dearly, but then if I was selfish and killed 3000 other innocent children, there would be 3000 other innocent families going through what I would be going through....
    Last edited by Trinie; 11-17-09 at 05:55 PM.
    Respect other people's opinions and views. If we learn how to do that than all of these fights and arguments will not occur.

  8. #88
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Giang Ho, Canada
    Posts
    4,642

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trinie View Post
    Well, I didn't say that you had to sacrifice your loved ones just so others can be happy. I guess what I was trying to say was that you should think of others and their loved ones as well instead of just yourself and your family. I also did NOT say that your loved ones lives are worthless and the lives others are precious ok? GEEZ...

    Basically,what that means in Viet is "Thien ha von la mot nha". Do you understand now???

    Honestly, I really don't know what I would do since I have not been in that situation yet. I think since it is hypothetical, we would all react differently if this situation actually hit us. We can all say anything now but when it actually happens, we would react differently..... It also depends on the situation as well. For example, I saw in Hier to the Throne is... There was a scene where Empress Dowager Lu was tricked by one of her evil officials that if she wanted to save her son, the current emperor, then he would have to drink blood from 3000 children. Therefore, she had to kill 3000 innocent children just to save the life of her one son. Honestly, IF it were me... I really don't think I would sacrifice 3000 children just for the one life of my son. Your children are the most important people to you, but I really don't think I would kill 3000 innocent just to save the life of my one son. She kept on telling him that everything she did was for him.... Since the king was kind and innocent, he just could not accept his mother doing such things and would rather die....I would miss and love my son dearly, but then if I was selfish and killed 3000 other innocent children, there would be 3000 other innocent families going through what I would be going through....

    Agree, did you read my previous post?
    I stated that I would never kill anyone just to save myself and/or loved ones. However, in the dangerous situation I would care about my children first (if I have any), wife (if I am married) then myself, then my loved ones, then strangers.

    Quote Originally Posted by remember_Cedric View Post
    So, TC, if you're in a circumstances where you have to kill the strangers in order to save your family or let your family die if you won't kill the strangers, what would it be?

    Why do I felt like this is a stupid question.... when the answer is likely to be "kill the strangers".
    No, I won't kill anyone for my family. I would try my best to rescue my loved ones, but not at the expense of the unknown innocent people.

  9. #89
    Senior Member Bangs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Home sweet home
    Posts
    1,628

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    That is pretty stupid!!!
    Why would you have to kill yourself? I think you are confused. We are not talking about you kill those innocent literally. We are talking about choosing your loved ones and yourself over the strangers. I wouldn't lose any sleep for saving myself and loved ones over those strangers. No law in the world can go after me for doing it.
    Its not stupid, in my last post I said I'd choose family over strangers and then kill myself as an apology. Why would I kill myself? Because I could not live life knowing I couldve saved those lives but instead chose to be selfish. Its a matter of honor, most people wouldn't understand.

  10. #90
    Senior Member xJadedx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    2,866

    Default

    I understand your intention and reason for that, since it's really more of a symbolic thing. But personally, I don't think it's the most logical option. Firstly, your loved ones will be devastated - I know I would be if someone I loved saved me and then chose to end their lives. I wouldn't see the reason for myself being saved at the cost of the life of someone I love. At the same time, your death will do nothing for the lives of the strangers or the loved ones of the strangers. If I chose t save my loved ones over the strangers, then I'd try to afterwards do as much as I can to help the families of those strangers.
    Suicide, even as an honourable or symbolic act, will not achieve that much. But if I stayed alive, I could be able to do more.
    Because I'm somewhere in between,
    My love and my agony.

  11. #91
    Senior Member remember_Cedric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    right here, right now
    Posts
    3,541

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bangs View Post
    Its not stupid, in my last post I said I'd choose family over strangers and then kill myself as an apology. Why would I kill myself? Because I could not live life knowing I couldve saved those lives but instead chose to be selfish. Its a matter of honor, most people wouldn't understand.
    It's certainly an honour, but this great spirit of the Samurai seems to be of little use in here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded WenEr View Post
    I understand your intention and reason for that, since it's really more of a symbolic thing. But personally, I don't think it's the most logical option. Firstly, your loved ones will be devastated - I know I would be if someone I loved saved me and then chose to end their lives. I wouldn't see the reason for myself being saved at the cost of the life of someone I love. At the same time, your death will do nothing for the lives of the strangers or the loved ones of the strangers. If I chose t save my loved ones over the strangers, then I'd try to afterwards do as much as I can to help the families of those strangers.
    Suicide, even as an honourable or symbolic act, will not achieve that much. But if I stayed alive, I could be able to do more.
    Absolutely!
    What can I say? I'm still standing! No weapon against me shall prosper! I am more than a conqueror!!!

    I don't care to sit by the window on an airplane. If I can't control it, why look?

  12. #92
    Moderator kidd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Somewhere Out There
    Posts
    13,110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bangs View Post
    Its not stupid, in my last post I said I'd choose family over strangers and then kill myself as an apology. Why would I kill myself? Because I could not live life knowing I couldve saved those lives but instead chose to be selfish. Its a matter of honor, most people wouldn't understand.
    It's not a matter of honor. It's a cowardly and selfish way out. You couldn't stand seeing yourself as selfish. So, you choose to kill yourself so that you can say to yourself "See? I'm not selfish. I'm filled with guilt until I need to kill himself. So, I am honorable." Do you know how much guilt you might pile on your love ones by this 'honorable' act of yours?

    It's very easy to beat yourself up over past mistakes, because it will make you feel less of a bad guy. It makes you feel 'selfish' to forgive yourself over past bad decision. So, letting go and forgiving yourself is the hard part.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

  13. #93
    Senior Member Happy Kadaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    240

    Default

    At first glance on the topic, I would choose loved ones over strangers. I'm not a hero, nor do I care about being one. But I'd have to reconsider if there are young kids and children in the group of strangers.

    I haven't been around as much but it seems like TC is still the most discussed member lol.
    Last edited by Happy Kadaw; 11-20-09 at 12:53 AM.

  14. #94
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    I live out of a suitcase, but the heart is at home on the lake.
    Posts
    2,710

    Default

    I'm in agreement with Jaded that there is no right or wrong answer in this scenario, as the answer is subjective, based on each individual's situation and sensitivity. Thus, I can respect Bang's stand on this matter.

    If I find myself confronting this cruel and twisted fate, I honestly think that any decision is a high price to pay and the burden of guilt would forever scar one's soul. Although the sheer magnitude of imbalance in comparing 10 vs. millions may help some people feel better choosing the latter, it still doesn't make it right to sacrifice the lives of those I loved, especially if they don't want to die. Am I less guilty of murdering my loved ones just because I saved millions in return? Even if to some people, this is justifiable, I don’t think any soul with a conscience will be comforted and/or less guilt-ridden. Thus, if one wishes to part this world and be with their loved ones, then it's a personal decision that everyone has the right to make; after all, what is left of life when all of your loved ones are gone and you're alone in the world? Sure, some people may say that suicidal is a coward way out, but then again, the meaning of life is also subjective, isn't it?

    Likewise, if I were to save my loved ones and in return forsake the lives of the mass, then the burden of guilt will be enough to drive me into an asylum, if not suicidal. Either way, I'd rather not play God.

  15. #95
    Moderator kidd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Somewhere Out There
    Posts
    13,110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bellamia View Post
    Am I less guilty of murdering my loved ones just because I saved millions in return? Even if to some people, this is justifiable, I don’t think any soul with a conscience will be comforted and/or less guilt-ridden. Thus, if one wishes to part this world and be with their loved ones, then it's a personal decision that everyone has the right to make; after all, what is left of life when all of your loved ones are gone and you're alone in the world? Sure, some people may say that suicidal is a coward way out, but then again, the meaning of life is also subjective, isn't it?
    Bang said he would save his loved ones and commit suicide, not, save the millions and kill himself to be with his loved ones. It's different.

    Quote Originally Posted by bellamia View Post
    Likewise, if I were to save my loved ones and in return forsake the lives of the mass, then the burden of guilt will be enough to drive me into an asylum, if not suicidal. Either way, I'd rather not play God.
    By suiciding after saving your loved ones, you will just have passed your guilt to your loved one. You are free from guilt (since you are dead and died 'honorably' too) but your loved one will have to carry this burden.

    Quote Originally Posted by bellamia View Post
    I'm in agreement with Jaded that there is no right or wrong answer in this scenario, as the answer is subjective, based on each individual's situation and sensitivity. Thus, I can respect Bang's stand on this matter.
    I can understand his wish to suicide after making this 'selfish' decision since the burden of guilt is huge. But, I don't agree that it's an honorable act. I can respect his decision, but, not his stand that this is honorable or a matter of honor.
    Last edited by kidd; 11-20-09 at 02:52 AM.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

  16. #96
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    I live out of a suitcase, but the heart is at home on the lake.
    Posts
    2,710

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kidd View Post
    Bang said he would save his loved ones and commit suicide, not, save the millions and kill himself to be with his loved ones. It's different.
    His analogy is similar to my second scenario, thus, I can empathize. Perhaps this is because I strongly believe that everyone has the right to choose life or death. It's a very personal decision! I can only stress that in this hypothetical scenario, it's impossible to assume how people will cope aftermath; after all everyone deal with their feelings and emotions differently. I can only speak for myself and for those actions that are aligned with my thinking - and I can firmly say that, it would be very difficult for me to live through the guilt, regardless the course of action. Thus, is it any better for my loved ones to witness my suffering, or would compassion allow them to understand my plight? Again, the answer is subjective, based on each individual's beliefs and values Ė mine may vastly differs from yours, but that doesn't prevent me from respecting what you are saying as well.

  17. #97
    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    ( @ )( @ )
    Posts
    4,651

    Default

    Farkin' hell, a bloke can't even contemplate suicide in a hypothetical situation without a bunch of women nagging him to death.
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

  18. #98
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    I live out of a suitcase, but the heart is at home on the lake.
    Posts
    2,710

    Default

    potbellllllllllllieeeeeee....would you like some assistance?

  19. #99
    Senior Member Guo Xiang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The bubblehead
    Posts
    8,571

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Candide View Post
    Farkin' hell, a bloke can't even contemplate suicide in a hypothetical situation without a bunch of women nagging him to death.
    Oh come on. He only has one idea - we women offer much more for his consideration. Never hurts to have more options!
    Join us at The Mandate RPG!
    Join the Discussion thread for The Mandate RPG!
    Quote Originally Posted by athlee View Post
    DZC - "Your wife and I, we are old friends."

  20. #100
    Member Lifeburner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Indonesia, where people will trap you in a Big Dipper formation if you steal a chicken...
    Posts
    148

    Default

    I agree with WenEr and Ced here. Killing yourself afterwards would be pointless. You get nothing for doing so, your loved one gets nothing when you do so, and those X number of people get nothing too. They won't thank you for that. Instead, when they see you in the afterlife, they might just say, "Hey, look. That's the jerk who didn't save us! Let's whack him, yes?" :P

    As for me, my choice depends on who those X number of people are. Some of my equally loved ones? Just mere acquaintances? Total strangers? The first one would be real hard and to be honest, I wouldn't know which one to choose, cuz I won't be able to think clearly. But if they were all total strangers though, then of course I'll save my loved one. Heck, I might just cry, "For the sake of wwuuuuvvvv!!!!" just to soothe those 'OH SHI-!" moments
    It was often said, "Among horses, Chi Tu (Red Hare). Among retards, Lu Bu."

    Vice-President of Wuji Haters Club!

    Originator of "Wuv Kuddly Hamsty" activity.

Similar Threads

  1. why do ppl tend to underestimate fighters in SOD?
    By LeKhai in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 157
    Last Post: 02-02-09, 12:00 AM
  2. Number of Views for Youtube
    By 999roses in forum Tech Squad
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 02-13-08, 10:32 PM
  3. Lucky Number Slevin
    By x0_jenniee in forum Movies
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-11-06, 12:46 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •