How big was the gap between these characters?

[KeongJai]

because they zerg rush. nobody likes a zerg rusher, hence they aren't counted as one of the big name clans.

[tape]

When did they zerg rush moreso than any other sect? Shaolin has formations made up of hundreds of disciples, they obviously overwhelm by numbers too. When they attacked on Brightness Peak, even though they agreed to 1 on 1 fight, they still fought one after another until the opponent gets tired. Same difference.

[KeongJai]

but shaolin makes the rules. beggar clan has more zergs to rush with.

[Ken Cheng]

but shaolin makes the rules. beggar clan has more zergs to rush with.

I'm more than a bit curious about the state of Shaolin/Beggar's Union relations during HSDS myself. During the DGSD era, Shaolin and the Beggar's Union were pretty tight as allies. We don't hear much about Shaolin in LOCH and ROCH, but in HSDS, Shaolin and the Beggar's Union were at odds. Even so, I think somebody in HSDS mentioned something about the long history of good relations between these two sects. Were they referring back to the DGSD era, which by the time of HSDS was already three-hundred years in the past?

[Ren Wo Xing]

I'm more than a bit curious about the state of Shaolin/Beggar's Union relations during HSDS myself. During the DGSD era, Shaolin and the Beggar's Union were pretty tight as allies. We don't hear much about Shaolin in LOCH and ROCH, but in HSDS, Shaolin and the Beggar's Union were at odds. Even so, I think somebody in HSDS mentioned something about the long history of good relations between these two sects. Were they referring back to the DGSD era, which by the time of HSDS was already three-hundred years in the past?

Wait, why do you say they were at odds? I don't recall this at all.

[Ken Cheng]

Wait, why do you say they were at odds? I don't recall this at all.

Over the Tse Tsun incident. The Beggar's Union blamed Shaolin in general (not just Yeun Jen/Sing Kwun) for the murder of Chief Shih and the kidnapping of Tse Tsun from their custody. The two sects were on the brink of going at each other during the Lion-Trial Convention. Only Ngor Mei Sect's self-serving intervention prevented a Shaolin/Beggar's Union brawl, I think.

[flamer]

I just assumed based on their seniority title.

Oh ok. But Song Yuanqiao wasn't the best out of Wudang Heros.

[PJ]

Speaking of the Eight Armed Swordsman, it seems that the Beggar's Clan has/had many powerful fighters in the various Elders + Shi.

Yes, it seems to me the Beggar's Union in HSDS, compared to other novels, had the highest count of powerful individuals outside of the Chief.

How did it become regarded as one of the smaller factions/clans?

In HSDS, Beggar's Union is still the largest organization in the martial world (丐帮号称江湖上第一大帮). The reason their reputation declined is probably due to the less-than-great Chief Shi Huolong. His inability--and subsequent crippling due--to learn the clan's top art XL18Z must have yielded bad image for the organization. Furthermore, his seclusion from the world for 20 years probably didn't help the organization. And even his predecessors after Yelu Qi were all unable to learn all 18 stances of XL18Z; so we can assume the organization started declining after Yelu Qi's post.

Emei only has Miejue; there's nobody else that's really even remotely powerful. they also don't seem to have many disciples relatively.

Emei was past its peak by Miejue's time. It probably peaked during Guo Xiang's reign.

[Ken Cheng]

In HSDS, Beggar's Union is still the largest organization in the martial world (丐帮号称江湖上第一大帮). The reason their reputation declined is probably due to the less-than-great Chief Shi Huolong. His inability--and subsequent crippling due--to learn the clan's top art XL18Z must have yielded bad image for the organization.

But I thought his martial arts weren't so bad. In the wulin of HSDS, probably only a dozen or so people were equal to or superior to him in martial arts. Even Sing Kwun struggled to bring Chief Shih down. I suppose that's a step down from having Kiu Fung or North Beggar Hung 7 Gung as Chief, but Chief Shih was no scrub himself.

Emei was past its peak by Miejue's time. It probably peaked during Guo Xiang's reign.

For wulin sects, it would seem, things rarely get better than the founding generation. There are exceptions, but for a good many sects, the founding generation is as good as it ever gets.

[PJ]

But I thought his martial arts weren't so bad. In the wulin of HSDS, probably only a dozen or so people were equal to or superior to him in martial arts. Even Sing Kwun struggled to bring Chief Shih down. I suppose that's a step down from having Kiu Fung or North Beggar Hung 7 Gung as Chief, but Chief Shih was no scrub himself.

But remember, he was unable to learn the signature art of his organization, resulting in fire deviation and crippling of himself 20 years ago, which must have been a blow to his and his organization's reputation.