Why is the character of Yeung Gor so difficult to adapt for television/movies?

[Trinie]

I think part of the reason any character is hard to depict is that when each of us read a novel/story, we all have different views on how we interpret a character. Therefore, each actor/actress that is given a role has to take that into consideration as well. Also, since these famous JY characters have been portrayed by soooo many different people, each time the actors/actresses try to give a different take to portraying the characters. It is also hard to portray characters that are more introverted as well...

I find it so strange that Ken dislikes Yeung Gor so much but talks about him so much... What is that all about??

[Ken Cheng]

I find it so strange that Ken dislikes Yeung Gor so much but talks about him so much... What is that all about??

The only characters you don't talk about are the ones you don't give a damn about.

You could talk about the characters you really like, but that gets old fast: how many times can you gush about your favorite character without it getting boring? Gwok Jing was a great hero, a nice guy, and an excellent martial artist. What more is there to say?

But for characters you hate...well, that discussion can go in an indefinite number of ways.

[KJ]

A key to successfully adapting a wuxia novel into a television series or motion picture is characterization. The series/film should, as closely as possible, depict the character that the author portrayed in the novel. Because of the nature of the adaptation process, the success of this endeavor is usually imperfect. Generally, however, most adaptations get the general parameters correct.

The most notable exception is ROCH's Yeung Gor. Judging from the various adaptations only, he is not a particularly likable protagonist at times. Readers of the ROCH novel, however, often observe that no adaptation has accurately depicted the character as he is described by Jin Yong in the novel. Without exception, it seems, the adaptations tend to accentuate and perhaps overplay the negative aspects of his personality, creating a divisive character.

But why is this character so difficult to portray in other media even when top-notch acting talents such as Andy Lau, Louis Koo, and Huang Xiao Ming are recruited for the role? How could all the different screenwriters from so many different periods and working for different production companies ALL get this character so wrong?

I didn't like Huang Xiao Ming's protrayal. He was crying and screaming like a little girl throughout th series. It was very annoying although the series had very pretty actresses.

[sniffles]

I didn't like Huang Xiao Ming's protrayal. He was crying and screaming like a little girl throughout th series. It was very annoying although the series had very pretty actresses.

There's a lot of crying in the book. But I'll admit, HXM's voice dubbing is a bit disappointing. It lacks subtlety.

Trinie has it right, though. The real reason one person likes a particular version and another person doesn't like it is because we all have a certain image in our minds of what these characters are like, either based on the book or on whatever adaptation we saw first. The tv producers have an image in their minds, too, and that's what ends up on the screen.

The tv productions may also be trying to differentiate their version of the story from all the other versions, and they decide to either focus on an aspect of the character's personality that hasn't been prominent before, or add something new to that character that didn't exist in the book.

[jiang bao]

I haven't seen Dicky Ren's YG, but I did see his attempt to act in SOD2000. Lets just say I've never seen "acting" like that before. My guess is that he played YG quite similarly as he played LHC. I don't mean that he played YG bad, I mean that he played YG like the same character.

HXM's early YG was terrible. He portrayed him like he had mental problems. The later, more mature YG he was much better at. I don't watch TVB so I've never seen the other portrayals except for snippets here and there.

Everyone has a different image of the main characters. It's not possible to please everybody.

[Trinie]

There's a lot of crying in the book. But I'll admit, HXM's voice dubbing is a bit disappointing. It lacks subtlety.

Trinie has it right, though. The real reason one person likes a particular version and another person doesn't like it is because we all have a certain image in our minds of what these characters are like, either based on the book or on whatever adaptation we saw first. The tv producers have an image in their minds, too, and that's what ends up on the screen.

The tv productions may also be trying to differentiate their version of the story from all the other versions, and they decide to either focus on an aspect of the character's personality that hasn't been prominent before, or add something new to that character that didn't exist in the book.

Yea, totally agree with you because I have seen many fans who have NOT read the novels at all but claim to like a particular character just because their favorite actor/actress played that character. But when someone else plays the same character, they get all biased and say that they liked their favorite actor/actress in that role over another actor/actress. For example, Andy Lau was the first one that I ever saw as YG and now my family and I always call him YG. However, I don't ever object to anyone else playing that character, but I do admit that I love him as YG(since he is one of my all time favorites) since his image of YG has been stuck in my mind for over 20 years.... Whether or not it is accurate to the book, I am not 100% sure since I was too lazy to read the whole novel due to the length. But my way of interpreting YG may be different from anybody else.

[pannonian]

There's a lot of crying in the book. But I'll admit, HXM's voice dubbing is a bit disappointing. It lacks subtlety.

Andy Lau's Yang Guo got emotional at times, but he tended to internalise it, showing only in a slightly breaking voice, or perhaps a watery eye. See Zhou Xun's teary Huang Rong when watching Guo Jing bury his masters for something similar. Strangely, watching their early acting performances, one would say that Andy Lau was better than Tony Leung. I suppose Tony Leung's brand of melancholic cool lends itself more to the western arthouse audience.

[sniffles]

I'm just going to have to buy the DVD set of Andy Lau's version now that it's available with English subs.

[Trinie]

I'm just going to have to buy the DVD set of Andy Lau's version now that it's available with English subs.

I thought that Andy did a good job as YG. But then again my opinion is bias...

[ChanceEncounter]

I always maintained that YG and LHC would be two especially difficult protagonists, because their struggles are often so internal, and their thought processes are often so complex that it's almost impossible to translate to film without copious amount of mono/dialogue.

Insofar as the adaptation goes, I think it's fair to say that YG hasn't been portrayed particularly accurately. Certainly if you compare him to GJ, GJ has been played more true to the book, but it's also substantially easier to play GJ than YG.

I think one of the reasons actors find it difficult to play YG is that he really runs the gamut of emotions. An actor would need to be very skilled and convincing in both the comedic and tragic elements without going over the top, and that's very difficult.

[duguxiaojing]

The other element is the point that has already been raised: Yang Guo is harder to film than, say, Guo Jing. I would actually generalise the point by saying that it's harder to film characters who have inner life and other forms of literary complexity than more primitive, robotic characters. Within JY's 'Big Five' wuxia novels, GJ, Zhang Wuji and to some extent Xiao Feng fit into the latter category, while the likes of YG (to some extent), Linghu Chong and Duan Yu are the more sophisticated types. LHC and DY are particularly difficult because what happens in their imaginations is often at least as important as what's actually going on in reality, and there can be multiple levels of irony. This stuff - one of the key factors which make XAJH and TLBB superior novels to the Trilogy works - just doesn't come across in the TV adaptations I've seen.

wow great analysis Objhx...can u write my next term paper for me? lol

[Wu Wudi]

YG is hard to portray because there aren't many emo, pretty boys with acting abilities.

Definition of EMO for those of you who are too old or too smart to know:

"They all suffer from severe narcissism, leading them to believe that they alone know what pain is, and that no one understands them. "

NSFW link that explains it all:

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Emo

[Wu Wudi]

There are two elements to this. The first is that, in my opinion, the general quality of directors, screenwriters and actors who work on wuxia TV shows is not high. This is exacerbated by the particular difficulties of filming wuxia works, the preposterously tight deadlines such shows are filmed to, and various other commercial considerations. The result - to me, at least - are adaptations which are at best artistically unsatisfying or, at worst, just plain cr*p.

The other element is the point that has already been raised: Yang Guo is harder to film than, say, Guo Jing. I would actually generalise the point by saying that it's harder to film characters who have inner life and other forms of literary complexity than more primitive, robotic characters. Within JY's 'Big Five' wuxia novels, GJ, Zhang Wuji and to some extent Xiao Feng fit into the latter category, while the likes of YG (to some extent), Linghu Chong and Duan Yu are the more sophisticated types. LHC and DY are particularly difficult because what happens in their imaginations is often at least as important as what's actually going on in reality, and there can be multiple levels of irony. This stuff - one of the key factors which make XAJH and TLBB superior novels to the Trilogy works - just doesn't come across in the TV adaptations I've seen.

I would argue that XF is a very complicated character. His whole story is about his struggles in balancing his own morals and desires against his cultural ethics and responsibilities.

[kidd]

I think most characters in novels are never accurately adapted to screen, not only Yang Guo. This is because in novels, the author can describe what the character is thinking but onscreen they can't show it.

[Trien Chieu]

I thought that Andy did a good job as YG. But then again my opinion is bias...

I agree.

I have only seen two adaptions of ROCH. I like Andy Lau's version much better than Lious Koo's version. It's not that Lious Koo was that bad, but Andy was better as portraying the character. Supporting artists in Lau's version were so much better as well. Again, I never read any novel, so I have to idea how close they were to the character in the book. As for the character itself, I am not the big fan of it. Neither love nor hate.

[owbjhx]

I would argue that XF is a very complicated character. His whole story is about his struggles in balancing his own morals and desires against his cultural ethics and responsibilities.

I would say that a distinction should be made between the complexity of a character and the complexity of his plot or situation. I agree that Xiao Feng's plot is complex: facing an identity crisis and divided loyalties, he goes through many ups and downs dealing with the mysterious conspiracy which has enveloped his life. This is the source of the struggles you describe. However, he himself is not a complex character. Given the amount of pagetime he has, I personally find him rather bland.

XF, despite being a throwback to the big-hairy-balls machismo of Shui Hu Zhuan, is a more sophisticated character than Guo Jing (who's wuxia's answer to Forrest Gump) and Zhang Wuji (who's really just a mouthpiece for Jinyong's inane moralising). He has a fair capacity for reflection, a few nice inner monologues, and some clever associated symbolism (for instance, at Juxianzhuang). However, his personality is pretty poorly developed. He has surprisingly few distinguishing traits beyond his typical jianghu-hero persona. He spouts cliches and his personal relationships are laughably simplistic. He's more an ideal rather than an individual - drawn as an outline and left that way, with little colour and texture.

I would describe XF as quite a "functional" character. He serves the plot like a refrigerator serves the kitchen. There's nothing wrong with that: he is, after all, a simple, honest warrior. Personally, I prefer characters whose development is taken beyond mere functionality - characters who a novelist writes about almost as much because of themselves as because of their plots. Duan Yu, for instance, is an example; Linghu Chong is to some extent, and I guess Wei Xiaobao might be too.

I'd also add that although XF's story might be complex, it's narrated in quite a simple, un-self-conscious way that is a hallmark of the Trilogy novels. I always found it amazing how JY kept a straight face with XF's tale - all overwrought themes, stupendous plots and cloying sentimentality - when, elsewhere in Tian Long Ba Bu, he was so inventively cynical in satirising his own genre.

Good to see you posting again, by the way.

[Trinie]

I agree.

I have only seen two adaptions of ROCH. I like Andy Lau's version much better than Lious Koo's version. It's not that Lious Koo was that bad, but Andy was better as portraying the character. Supporting artists in Lau's version were so much better as well. Again, I never read any novel, so I have to idea how close they were to the character in the book. As for the character itself, I am not the big fan of it. Neither love nor hate.

Once again, why am I NOT surprised to hear this from TC?? So typical...

[PJ]

I find Xiao Feng to be a complex character, not because of what is written about him but rather, what's left out--and is thus open to interpretation.

Is he the first major character in Jin Yong universe to transcend the limitations of nationality and race, the first to feel compassion for ALL people?

Why did he commit suicide? According to his last words, it was because of his guilt of betraying his nation. But is it really that simple? Was he so ahead of his time and he simply could not find the right words to describe his feelings of compassion?

And yet, was the intention all about sacrifice for other people? I personally don't think so. I think at least subconsciously, he was affected by Ah Zhu's death, even though Jin Yong never wrote so. In the final chapter, he arrived at the place where she first displayed her affection, which brought back haunting memories. I believe this setup provided the perfect mood for his decision to die.

[Wu Wudi]

PJ, that's an interesting perspective on XF's suicide. I've never thought of it like that but you could be right.

I agree that XF's complexity as a character is not only due to the situations that he is placed in. For example, Yang Guo's dad, Yang Kang, also found out that he wasn't the person that he thought he was. Unlike XF, YK, had no dilemmas. YK simply chose power and wealth over loyalties to his real father and people.

[xiaolong]

Huang Xiao Ming doesn't look like YG. He looks too mature to be YG so his fake crying and screaming sounded real irritating.

I haven't seen a YG with the looks and temperament that I imagined him to have. But I must say Andy Lau's YG was the best - Andy Lau at 21 does look pretty mature too.

I didn't like Huang Xiao Ming's protrayal. He was crying and screaming like a little girl throughout th series. It was very annoying although the series had very pretty actresses.