Why is the character of Yeung Gor so difficult to adapt for television/movies?

[Ken Cheng]

A key to successfully adapting a wuxia novel into a television series or motion picture is characterization. The series/film should, as closely as possible, depict the character that the author portrayed in the novel. Because of the nature of the adaptation process, the success of this endeavor is usually imperfect. Generally, however, most adaptations get the general parameters correct.

The most notable exception is ROCH's Yeung Gor. Judging from the various adaptations only, he is not a particularly likable protagonist at times. Readers of the ROCH novel, however, often observe that no adaptation has accurately depicted the character as he is described by Jin Yong in the novel. Without exception, it seems, the adaptations tend to accentuate and perhaps overplay the negative aspects of his personality, creating a divisive character.

But why is this character so difficult to portray in other media even when top-notch acting talents such as Andy Lau, Louis Koo, and Huang Xiao Ming are recruited for the role? How could all the different screenwriters from so many different periods and working for different production companies ALL get this character so wrong?

[CC]

The most notable exception is ROCH's Yeung Gor. Judging from the various adaptations only, he is not a particularly likable protagonist at times. Readers of the ROCH novel, however, often observe that no adaptation has accurately depicted the character as he is described by Jin Yong in the novel. Without exception, it seems, the adaptations tend to accentuate and perhaps overplay the negative aspects of his personality, creating a divisive character.

Is this your personal observation only? I don't see more people criticising the TV Yang Guo compared to novel YG.

[Ken Cheng]

Is this your personal observation only? I don't see more people criticising the TV Yang Guo compared to novel YG.

No, it's definitely come up before. My impression of Yeung Gor is built almost entirely upon his depiction in ROCH '83, and novel readers who choose to defend his character frequently argue that this series (and pretty much all others) never portrays the Yeung Gor character correctly. The adaptations always make him whinier and less heroic than Jin Yong reportedly depicted him to be.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Question; did you ever watch the Louis Koo/Huang Xiaoming versions, Ken? I watched both, but not the '83 version.

[Ken Cheng]

Question; did you ever watch the Louis Koo/Huang Xiaoming versions, Ken? I watched both, but not the '83 version.

I watched five minutes (maybe) of the Koo version and none of the Huang version. I didn't get a full treatment of the Koo version, but his version (from what I did see of it) struck me as "boring" rather than annoying.

But in previous discussions, I've read blanket statements by those arguing in defense of Yeung Gor that ALL (not just TVB in 1983) adaptations have gotten the character wrong one way or another, and that these adaptations generally all accentuate the negative aspects of the character in a way that Jin Yong never did.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Could you hit me with a few links so I have an idea what you mean, Ken?

To a certain extent, I do think I agree, insofar as Yang Guo's behavior in the novels is quite nuanced and complicated, which doesn't translate very well onto a TV screen (Guo Jing, by contrast, is very easy to portray well because he's such a boring character).

[Ken Cheng]

Could you hit me with a few links so I have an idea what you mean, Ken?

I wish. It's buried within myriad discussions we've had on the topic over the years...but if you can dig up a few of my previous anti-Yeung Gor rants, you can probably find a reference to this in at least one or two threads (typically after someone writes "TVB" and "toilet paper" in the same sentence).

To a certain extent, I do think I agree, insofar as Yang Guo's behavior in the novels is quite nuanced and complicated, which doesn't translate very well onto a TV screen (Guo Jing, by contrast, is very easy to portray well because he's such a boring character).

I wouldn't say "boring," but more straightforward and not so subject to re/misinterpretation. Other than his anomalous talent for martial arts, Gwok Jing's character is pretty much "what you see is what you get."

[Ren Wo Xing]

I wouldn't say "boring," but more straightforward and not so subject to re/misinterpretation. Other than his anomalous talent for martial arts, Gwok Jing's character is pretty much "what you see is what you get."

When I say boring, I'm talking about from a literary point of view. There's very little depth to the character, he's just a prototypical 'main character good guy'.

But yes, Yang Guo's character is a nuanced one, which is somewhat harder to portray. For example, after getting his arm chopped off, he plans revenge on Guo Fu...but when he actually gets the chance to take the revenge, he doesn't even harm a hair on her head. All he does is break her sword. It's an example of how although Yang Guo might appear to be arrogant and combative, he often has a soft heart on the inside. However, portraying just the former is considerably easier than portraying both.

[Ken Cheng]

When I say boring, I'm talking about from a literary point of view. There's very little depth to the character, he's just a prototypical 'main character good guy'.

There's a better term to use for that than "boring," which is unnecessarily pejorative.

Gwok Jing's character is more "flat," which isn't necessarily the same as "boring." His character trajectory, however, is going to be more predictable than Yeung Gor's.

But Gwok Jing's character was designed for the life journey he was destined to make. His very flatness is the essence of whom he is, and an important part of why his story works.

[PJ]

But why is this character so difficult to portray in other media even when top-notch acting talents such as Andy Lau, Louis Koo, and Huang Xiao Ming are recruited for the role? How could all the different screenwriters from so many different periods and working for different production companies ALL get this character so wrong?

For example, in ROCH 2006, Yang Guo is portrayed as unbearably wussy to me, but some people actually like that. My little cousin loved it, while it disgusted me. So not everyone agrees the TV portrayals are bad. The audience it caters to seem to like it.

[owbjhx]

But why is this character so difficult to portray in other media even when top-notch acting talents such as Andy Lau, Louis Koo, and Huang Xiao Ming are recruited for the role? How could all the different screenwriters from so many different periods and working for different production companies ALL get this character so wrong?

There are two elements to this. The first is that, in my opinion, the general quality of directors, screenwriters and actors who work on wuxia TV shows is not high. This is exacerbated by the particular difficulties of filming wuxia works, the preposterously tight deadlines such shows are filmed to, and various other commercial considerations. The result - to me, at least - are adaptations which are at best artistically unsatisfying or, at worst, just plain cr*p.

The other element is the point that has already been raised: Yang Guo is harder to film than, say, Guo Jing. I would actually generalise the point by saying that it's harder to film characters who have inner life and other forms of literary complexity than more primitive, robotic characters. Within JY's 'Big Five' wuxia novels, GJ, Zhang Wuji and to some extent Xiao Feng fit into the latter category, while the likes of YG (to some extent), Linghu Chong and Duan Yu are the more sophisticated types. LHC and DY are particularly difficult because what happens in their imaginations is often at least as important as what's actually going on in reality, and there can be multiple levels of irony. This stuff - one of the key factors which make XAJH and TLBB superior novels to the Trilogy works - just doesn't come across in the TV adaptations I've seen.

[Ghaleon]

... of all the ROCH adaptations, which had the closest portrayal of the character of YG?

[odbayarb2000]

I have seen Louis Koo and XHM's versions only. XHM was a way off Yang Guo. But Louis Koo was much closer to the novel. But he potrayed the dark side of the character more than the heroic side of Yang Guo. Other than that he was very promising Yang Guo.

[PJ]

... of all the ROCH adaptations, which had the closest portrayal of the character of YG?

I remember Louis Koo to be quite good.

Maybe the best Yang Guo is Leslie Cheung from the 1983 movie "Little Dragon Maiden." It's short and sweet, and doesn't provide much space for scriptwriters to screw the character up!

[sniffles]

... of all the ROCH adaptations, which had the closest portrayal of the character of YG?

No one ever mentions this version, but I'd say that of the versions I've seen (which doesn't include the '83 version, unfortunately), the '95 Singapore version has the best portrayal of YG's personality. There are a lot of other things wrong with that series, but Christopher Lee's portrayal of YG is not one of them. He managed to get the balance between Yang Guo's sometimes mischievous and proud nature and his faithfulness and devotion to love and family just right.

I do like the '06 version, but sometimes HXM is just a bit too arrogant and cocky as YG. And there are a couple of places where the director apparently wanted to play the scene for comedy when it shouldn't have been comical, which isn't necessarily HXM's fault, but it doesn't make him look good.

I'm planning to buy the '83 version soon because I'd like to see it and I've always liked Andy Lau.

[pannonian]

No one ever mentions this version, but I'd say that of the versions I've seen (which doesn't include the '83 version, unfortunately), the '95 Singapore version has the best portrayal of YG's personality. There are a lot of other things wrong with that series, but Christopher Lee's portrayal of YG is not one of them. He managed to get the balance between Yang Guo's sometimes mischievous and proud nature and his faithfulness and devotion to love and family just right.

I do like the '06 version, but sometimes HXM is just a bit too arrogant and cocky as YG. And there are a couple of places where the director apparently wanted to play the scene for comedy when it shouldn't have been comical, which isn't necessarily HXM's fault, but it doesn't make him look good.

I'm planning to buy the '83 version soon because I'd like to see it and I've always liked Andy Lau.

Andy Lau's Yang Guo is portrayed as frequently misunderstood and a victim of circumstance, and misses out on the self-pitying and flashes of pride, and the strong will that turned him into a pro-active version of Huang Yaoshi.

[PJ]

How about the 80s Taiwanese adaption with Meng Fei as Yang Guo - anyone remember that one? I know he may not look like a charming Yang Guo, but how is his portrayal?

[Ren Ying Ying]

as owby has mentioned earlier, Yang Guo is more of an internal character. All his thoughts, conflicts, and emotions are inside his head.

The trend of wuxia directors, however, tends to focus more on dialouge to express characters. Thus, now Yang Guo's overwhelmning emotions and thoughts are now displayed externally, which can become quite an annoyance for some viewers (esp when you have overacting actors like HXM).

Louis was more subtle, so I thought he did a much better job. I haven't yet seen Andy Lau's verson.

[sniffles]

as owby has mentioned earlier, Yang Guo is more of an internal character. All his thoughts, conflicts, and emotions are inside his head.

The trend of wuxia directors, however, tends to focus more on dialouge to express characters. Thus, now Yang Guo's overwhelmning emotions and thoughts are now displayed externally, which can become quite an annoyance for some viewers (esp when you have overacting actors like HXM).

Louis was more subtle, so I thought he did a much better job. I haven't yet seen Andy Lau's verson.

That's the trouble with trying to adapt a book for tv. In a book you can show the characters thinking and it doesn't seem odd, but in a tv show they either have to say what they're thinking out loud, or act out their thoughts as was done with the HXM version. It's either that or have voiceover narration, which tends to slow down the action and sometimes turns out unintentionally funny if it's done poorly.

Or some shows just seem to forego showing the characters' motivations. So then the characters take actions that aren't explained and it becomes confusing.

[smurf120]

in the ranking of bad -- how bad is the Richie Ren (Taiwan) one?