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Thread: Should the Chinese forgive the Mongolians?

  1. #21
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    How could we not forgive people who are so awesome at roasting meats?

  2. #22
    Senior Member odbayarb2000's Avatar
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    I have very different view in this.

    Conflict between Mongol (nomadic tribes of north ) and Chinese (sedentary civilization of south) was not just about the Yuan dynasty. It's a history long conflict and two thousand years of warfare. Last armed conflict took place in 1921 and last major conflict (unarmed) took place in 1980s.

    Based in Confucius philosophy world must be ruled by sole emperor. He is the son of heaven and destined to rule everyone under heaven. But Han Chinese was never able to dominate northern nomads. It was the divine right of the emperor to rule everyone, yet he wasn't able exercise it among Northern regions. So they built up massive walls to mark their dominion and refused to trade with nomads as equals. So Chinese Emperors never accepted any Mongol rulers as their equal. One of the main reasons of the nomadic conquests into Chinese land was to be accepted as equal and in some cases to prove they were superior.

    Han Chinese arrogance towards Nomadic tribes can be traced in how Chinese named the nomads. Xiongnu (匈奴), Xianbei (鲜卑) and Mengu (蒙古) are all degrading and belittling names. And Taiwan still drawing their maps as Mongolia being part of China. Chinese still believing that Mongols are the minority of Han Chinese nation which can be restated that Mongols are not a nation in their own right. And China always sought to dominate and integrate northern steppes into herself.

    So in contrast, Mongols hate Chinese for above mentioned reasons. And I believe if both nations don't change how they treat each other, people will always remain hating each other.

    Sorry for highly sensitive post. I have nothing against Chinese. But these are the facts.
    Last edited by odbayarb2000; 06-12-10 at 10:49 AM.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member Guo Xiang's Avatar
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    For the degrading names, I suppose I can see it in Xiongnu and Xianbei. But how so for the Mongols?
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    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by odbayarb2000 View Post
    I have very different view in this.

    Conflict between Mongol (nomadic tribes of north ) and Chinese (sedentary civilization of south) was not just about the Yuan dynasty. It's a history long conflict and two thousand years of warfare. Last armed conflict took place in 1921 and last major conflict (unarmed) took place in 1980s.

    Based in Confucius philosophy world must be ruled by sole emperor. He is the son of heaven and destined to rule everyone under heaven. But Han Chinese was never able to dominate northern nomads. It was the divine right of the emperor to rule everyone, yet he wasn't able exercise it among Northern regions. So they built up massive walls to mark their dominion and refused to trade with nomads as equals. So Chinese Emperors never accepted any Mongol rulers as their equal. One of the main reasons of the nomadic conquests into Chinese land was to be accepted as equal and in some cases to prove they were superior.

    Han Chinese arrogance towards Nomadic tribes can be traced in how Chinese named the nomads. Xiongnu (匈奴), Xianbei (鲜卑) and Mengu (蒙古) are all degrading and belittling names. And Taiwan still drawing their maps as Mongolia being part of China. Chinese still believing that Mongols are the minority of Han Chinese nation which can be restated that Mongols are not a nation in their own right. And China always sought to dominate and integrate northern steppes into herself.

    So in contrast, Mongols hate Chinese for above mentioned reasons. And I believe if both nations don't change how they treat each other, people will always remain hating each other.

    Sorry for highly sensitive post. I have nothing against Chinese. But these are the facts.
    Conflict between the Chinese and the nomadic steppe tribes began well before Confucius was even born, much less Confucian ideology took sway during the Han dynasty. That's a simplistic view of things.

    Review the history of nomadic raids anywhere in the world, and you will see that there has always been a tension between 'city-dwellers' and 'nomads'; the former view the latter as uncivilized thieves/murderers/barbarians. This is made only worse when the latter actually do launch raids against the 'civilized' city-dwellers, which they often did. Look at the history/tension from the Roman empire w/the 'barbarians' to the Americans and the Indians/Native Americans or even to the nomadic cultures of the Arab countries and their relations with the city-dwellers of that time.

    In other words, the relationship between China and Mongolia is nothing unique.

    As to the original post, I was pretty sure this was a joke thread. Which Chinese person in the past hundred years or so holds a grudge against the Mongolians? LOL!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadebunny9 View Post
    Oh you'd be surprised. My Chinese mother was married into an ignorant Vietnamese family who hates her apparently because her ancestors conquered their lands ages ago. My grandfather also loved making poems bashing Chinese people.
    Did your mom call them Xi Cao or Xi Kha in return?

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    I am a mongolian, who moved to germany when i was 8. recently i had a conversation with a chinese girl who told me the reason the west is dominating is because of the mongols and she seems to dislike the mongols in general. i was like "i see" that might be true, mongols surely did some damage, while opening trade to west etc. i was never really interested in history or culture but i informed myself a bit (yeah not too much, it is just too much to read) after she told me this. from my understanding, mongols did nasty damage to the tanguts and the jin but the core chinese dynasty Song was largely spared (no mass slaughter). so i wonder if the jin and Tanguts can be seen as chinese? werent they just former nomads who settled down? while culturally they may be chinese, genetically they were not? and the jin defeated the Song prior to the mongol invasion and the song helped the mongols to defeat the Jin. so the mongols really did not harm the real chinese that much while the tangut and jin simply ceased to exist? who remains to hate the mongols? sure khublai introduced the classsystem where the song was last, but that was because they were the last ones to be conquered? what are the legitimate reasons to hate the mongols besides they were invaders? but the mongols fked centralasia big so persians etc. have all the reasons to damn and curse us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Multivac View Post
    I am a mongolian, who moved to germany when i was 8. recently i had a conversation with a chinese girl who told me the reason the west is dominating is because of the mongols and she seems to dislike the mongols in general. i was like "i see" that might be true, mongols surely did some damage, while opening trade to west etc. i was never really interested in history or culture but i informed myself a bit (yeah not too much, it is just too much to read) after she told me this. from my understanding, mongols did nasty damage to the tanguts and the jin but the core chinese dynasty Song was largely spared (no mass slaughter). so i wonder if the jin and Tanguts can be seen as chinese? werent they just former nomads who settled down? while culturally they may be chinese, genetically they were not? and the jin defeated the Song prior to the mongol invasion and the song helped the mongols to defeat the Jin. so the mongols really did not harm the real chinese that much while the tangut and jin simply ceased to exist? who remains to hate the mongols? sure khublai introduced the classsystem where the song was last, but that was because they were the last ones to be conquered? what are the legitimate reasons to hate the mongols besides they were invaders? but the mongols fked centralasia big so persians etc. have all the reasons to damn and curse us.
    Back in the ancient days, people hated the Mongolians because they were uncivilized barbarians. Unlike other civilizations, they didn't know how to create wealth on their own by hard work. They were into robbing and looting in a grand scale when they invaded other countries. In modern society where robbing and looting other countries are no longer an option, Mongolia is weak and poor despite they have low population live on a big piece of land with great natural resources.

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    Junior Member kowalskil's Avatar
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    Sooner or later people should stop hating other people, because of historical sins. I am Jewish but I do not hate all Germans, for what their ancestors did.
    Ludwik Kowalski, free on-line “Diary of a Former Communist: Thoughts, Feelings, Reality.”http://csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/life/intro.html 1946-2004.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by kowalskil View Post
    Sooner or later people should stop hating other people, because of historical sins. I am Jewish but I do not hate all Germans, for what their ancestors did.
    What the state of Israel has been doing to the Arab is not much different than what the German did to the Jews. You should ask the Palestinians on how they feel toward the Jews?

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