Dongfang Bubai, the strongest character in SPW?

[Doc Kwok]

He would need to have substantially increased his internal energy to beat him. I just don't see how LHC suddenly increased his speed so much as to face DFBB and beat him if they had a rematch. And then we have to deal with DFBB's severe advantage in internal energy. While blocking his sword with a needle, DFBB was able to make his arm numb. In a rematch, giving DFBB a sword, I just don't see how LHC could come up with the raw power, even if his understanding of technique was greatly improved.

The quote from the novel is:

令狐沖手臂微感酸麻

i.e. All he felt was a slight numbness - although that is an impressive feat when using a needle to block a sword, it isn't going to hinder LHC any.

There was also this quote:

當日在黑木崖上圍攻東方不敗，他手中只持一枚繡花針，可是四大高手竟然無法與之相抗，此刻細想 ，並非由於東方不敗內功奇高，也不是由於招數極巧，只是他行動如電，攻守進退，全然出於對手意料之外。

The reason that the four couldn't defeat DFBB was not because his internal power was incredibly high (though it may well be), nor was it because his techniques were extremely sophisticated (though they may well be), but because he came and went like lightning, and his advances/retreats were completely unpredictable by his opponents.

It has been repeatedly shown in this particular novel that inner power matters little in a sword-fight - LWC has repeatedly triumphed (or in the case of RWX, matched) over opponents with much superior inner power to his own. This is because in high-level fights, the weapons don't clash at all, so there is no opportunity to use inner power to overwhelm your opponent.

[PJ]

There was also this quote:

當日在黑木崖上圍攻東方不敗，他手中只持一枚繡花針，可是四大高手竟然無法與之相抗，此刻細想 ，並非由於東方不敗內功奇高，也不是由於招數極巧，只是他行動如電，攻守進退，全然出於對手意料之外。

The reason that the four couldn't defeat DFBB was not because his internal power was incredibly high (though it may well be), nor was it because his techniques were extremely sophisticated (though they may well be), but because he came and went like lightning, and his advances/retreats were completely unpredictable by his opponents.

This quote was changed in the 3rd edition to:

[當日在黑木崖上圍攻東方不敗，他手中只持一枚繡花針，可是四大高手竟然無法與之相抗，此刻細想 ，非因由於東方不敗內功奇高，也不是由於招數極巧，只是他行動如電，攻守進退，全然出於對手意料之外 。] edition 3, chapter 35

Better verbiage and good change IMO.

[Doc Kwok]

This quote was changed in the 3rd edition to:

[當日在黑木崖上圍攻東方不敗，他手中只持一枚繡花針，可是四大高手竟然無法與之相抗，此刻細想 ，非因由於東方不敗內功奇高，也不是由於招數極巧，只是他行動如電，攻守進退，全然出於對手意料之外 。] edition 3, chapter 35

Better verbiage and good change IMO.

Yeah - in the second edition, it was all too easy to (mis)interpret that passage as saying that DFBB's inner power and techniques weren't that great. The change from '並非由於' to '非因由於' makes the intent much clearer.

[ChronoReverse]

It has been repeatedly shown in this particular novel that inner power matters little in a sword-fight - LWC has repeatedly triumphed (or in the case of RWX, matched) over opponents with much superior inner power to his own. This is because in high-level fights, the weapons don't clash at all, so there is no opportunity to use inner power to overwhelm your opponent.

Your points aren't off the mark but I take issue with this one.


First off, when there's a serious fight and it's really high level, swords do clash. For instance, in the fight between LHC versus CX, LHC had to clash several times (where he drained a little of CX's internal energy each time even as his arm numbed). Of all the sword duels LHC had, CX had the highest sword skill by far (LHC didn't get to duel with FCY).

Second off, we know that the high level experts in XAJH are capable of stifling each others internal energy in a fight of techniques to slow and control the opponent. The usage of internal energy itself is technique.

Also, the medium level experts in XAJH are already capable of distance attacks where the internal energy is unleashed along with the physical weapon. That is, the forces are felt outside the weapon. Not only that, just the buzzing noise that RWX made with his wooden sword was already enough to cause discomfort to LHC.




As for the needle, the numbing of LHC's arm and internal energy, that's the whole point showing how incredibly powerful DFBB was. A needle can't carry much internal energy unlike a sword. For DFBB to get that sort of result using a needle meant that he would have had to be channeling a huge amount of internal energy.

Remember, LHC had already seen DFBB's speed before this. But it was until he clashed with DFBB's needle and felt the force that he had the realization that DFBB was an unfathomable opponent.

[goodrick]

Anyone think DFBB deserve to have more appearance in SPW?

Yes, definitely would've loved to see more of DFBB in SPW. In my opinion, he was the most powerful martial artist in SPW

[Ty Chen]

Oh yeaaaaaaa, DongFangBuBai was the strongest character in SPW (Smiling Proud Wanderer). His speed was incredible, plus if he didnt have his speed, his martial arts are flawless so it will be hard for anyone to kill him. I wish he should have had more appearances in the novel. Would have been GREAT.

日出东方，唯我不败

[Trien Chieu]

Oh yeaaaaaaa, DongFangBuBai was the strongest character in SPW (Smiling Proud Wanderer). His speed was incredible, plus if he didnt have his speed, his martial arts are flawless so it will be hard for anyone to kill him. I wish he should have had more appearances in the novel. Would have been GREAT.

日出东方，唯我不败

If DFBB appears more in the story it would be great. He/she actually did in one of the adaption with Joe Chen as DFBB. I didn't watch it. However, without speed, he is not all that powerful. I would say he is about 90% as powerful as RWX.

[hyoyatika]

I used to be of the camp that FQY > DFBB, but of recent, I'm finding it difficult to defend this.

Now as for the argument that LHC could subsequently overcome BXJF, my concern here is, what if LHC took on YBQ without knowing about those stances beforehand? Would YBQ had managed to defeat him? Sure, maybe LHC would manage to beat him in a rematch, but what if YBQ killed LHC in the first match?

And in both cases, the users of BXJF were pretty weak. I think we all agree that YBQ was never talented nor gifted and LPZ was pure crap. To the both of them, the essence of BXJF was probably speed AND the stances, which the latter wasn't the case.

DFBB, on the other hand, was a talented and skillful man(?). Prior to learning KHBD, I think he was just a little lower than XWT (I would reckon RWX liked XWT more and taught him more; XWT knew some mini-version of XXDF). He was the Sun Moon Sect's 3rd in command after all. Although I am of the view that BXJF > KHBD, I think DFBB was able to get much more from KHBD than the two idiots did from BXJF.

DFBB basically toyed with RWX, LHC and XWT. If we believe FQY to be better than DFBB, then FQY must be a lot better than the three, which I find it hard to believe.

[Trien Chieu]

Although I am of the view that BXJF > KHBD, I think DFBB was able to get much more from KHBD than the two idiots did from BXJF.

DFBB basically toyed with RWX, LHC and XWT. If we believe FQY to be better than DFBB, then FQY must be a lot better than the three, which I find it hard to believe.

If BXJF > KHBD then DFBB should be so so much more powerful than YBQ and LPZ. It's a shame that LPZ made such great sacrifice and still not that good. People like FQY would kick his *** regardless. Where is 9 Yum Gen Ging, 9 Yeung Gen Ging and all the great martial arts of LOCH/ROCH/HSDS?

[hyoyatika]

If BXJF > KHBD then DFBB should be so so much more powerful than YBQ and LPZ. It's a shame that LPZ made such great sacrifice and still not that good. People like FQY would kick his *** regardless. Where is 9 Yum Gen Ging, 9 Yeung Gen Ging and all the great martial arts of LOCH/ROCH/HSDS?

Did you meant to say should not be so much more powerful?

The limitation of comparing YBQ and LPZ against DFBB is that LPZ was a nobody and YBQ was never that talented (he couldn't realize the stances were not the gist of the skill). Plus, both had so little time to actually hone and refine their BXJF.

On the other hand, we have DFBB, who was already an elder with Sun Moon Cult before learning KHBD. Even without KHBD, I think we can project his skill level to be perhaps just slightly lower than XWT at worst, which is still above YBQ before he learnt BXJF.