Dongfang Bubai, the strongest character in SPW?

[aniking_8]

Do anyone think DFBB might be strongest in SPW even thought some might say FWY, but he barely appear and fight in the story. Anyone think DFBB deserve to have more appearance in SPW?

Also I don't understand why he didn't kill RWX and what do you think will happen if he did kill RWX, but didn't master the Sunflower manual?

[PJ]

It's debatable whether Dongfang Bubai is stronger than Feng Qingyang. However, it's undeniable that Dugu 9 Swords is more advanced than Sunflower Manuscript (Jin Yong said so in an interview).

[aniking_8]

It's true DG9S is stronger then Sunflower Manual, but the power of DG9S lies on the intelligence of a person while Sunflower Manual makes a weak person with low internal energy and weak techniques to become strong by enabling them using super speed.

[Han Solo]

It is probable that DFBB > FQY, based on the fact that DFBB's fight against LHC, RWX and XWT stimultaneously.

Han Solo

[sniffles]

Do anyone think DFBB might be strongest in SPW even thought some might say FWY, but he barely appear and fight in the story. Anyone think DFBB deserve to have more appearance in SPW?

Also I don't understand why he didn't kill RWX and what do you think will happen if he did kill RWX, but didn't master the Sunflower manual?

Dongfang Bubai probably would have been the strongest fighter in Xiao Ao Jiang Hu, if he hadn't let himself become distracted by love. He didn't seem to have any trouble holding off three people.

He didn't kill Ren Woxing because he was grateful to him. He wouldn't have been able to study Kuaihua Baodian if Ren Woxing hadn't given him the opportunity. If he hadn't had some gratitude to Ren Woxing, he probably would have killed him and Ren Yingying and Xiang Wentian and a lot of other people immediately when he took over control of the Divine Sun Moon Sect.

[Trien Chieu]

It is probable that DFBB > FQY, based on the fact that DFBB's fight against LHC, RWX and XWT stimultaneously.

Han Solo

I think DFBB is better than FQY but FQY is considered a very honorable person throughout wulin whereas DFBB is very hated.

[Ghaleon]

I think FQY and LHC has a greater potential than DFBB. The Dugu 9 Swordplay is a technique that takes a lifetime to master with unlimited potential.

[PJ]

The Dugu 9 Swordplay is a technique that takes a lifetime to master with unlimited potential.

Let me put in a plug for another martial art with unlimited potential (straight out of the author's mouth): Prajna Palm by Shaolin. One's mastery continues to expand into new realms forever and indefinitely because it is limitless.

[bliss]

I've always been a proponent of FQY being stronger than DFBB. One thing to consider is that when LHC faced DFBB, it was the first time that he ever came into contact with the martial arts of KHBD. In his subsequent encounters with YBQ and LPZ and their BXJF, he was able to beat them quite handily. Albeit, YBQ and LPZ were nowhere in DFBB's league yet, it still proved that the martial arts of DG9J was able to beat KHBD/BXJF.

Which brings us to another point. Many of us here have debated and agreed that the Lin's family BXJF was probably stronger than DFBB's KHBD, given the fact that both were based on Lin Yuantu's interpretation of the full original KHBD. Remember, DFBB's KHBD was incomplete as well and was just an interpretation of Lin Yuantu's explanation, as transcribed by the two Huashan elders.

Yet, the flaw in BXJF was that the moves repeated after 72 variations, and LHC was able to take advantage of this and defeat YBQ. Perhaps it was because YBQ wasn't as fast as DFBB so he couldn't cover his weaknesses with pure speed. However, I'm still almost convinced that LHC at the end of the book, who had a much better understanding of KHBD/BXJF and also much better internal powered by Yijinjing, would stand a good chance against DFBB if they had a rematch.

[PJ]

One thing to consider is that when LHC faced DFBB, it was the first time that he ever came into contact with the martial arts of KHBD.

Wouldn't Feng Qingyang have the same problem the first time he meets Dongfang Bubai?

[aniking_8]

Dongfang Bubai probably would have been the strongest fighter in Xiao Ao Jiang Hu, if he hadn't let himself become distracted by love. He didn't seem to have any trouble holding off three people.

He didn't kill Ren Woxing because he was grateful to him. He wouldn't have been able to study Kuaihua Baodian if Ren Woxing hadn't given him the opportunity. If he hadn't had some gratitude to Ren Woxing, he probably would have killed him and Ren Yingying and Xiang Wentian and a lot of other people immediately when he took over control of the Divine Sun Moon Sect.

Bixie swordplay was suppose to be superior to incomplete Sunflower manual, but why aren't Yue Buquan and Lin Pingzhi on the same level as DFBB. Was it because the two aren't smart enough to full understand the swordplay or doesn't have enough time to improve? Also how strong was DFBB before he castrated himself?

[Doc Kwok]

Which brings us to another point. Many of us here have debated and agreed that the Lin's family BXJF was probably stronger than DFBB's KHBD, given the fact that both were based on Lin Yuantu's interpretation of the full original KHBD. Remember, DFBB's KHBD was incomplete as well and was just an interpretation of Lin Yuantu's explanation, as transcribed by the two Huashan elders.

I saw the debate in question, but I still can't see where this idea that DFBB's manual was less complete than Bixie came from. As far as I can see, the sequence of events was:

- The two Huashan members each memorised half of the original manual
- They transcribed each half from memory - this is the messed-up 'second generation' Sunflower manual.
- Lin Yuantu (as a monk) came to visit to urge them not to practice it. They agreed, but started quoting sections from the manual and asked for an explanation.
- Lin Yuantu memorised the quotations, casually explained them, and later wrote them down to become Bixie sword art (i.e. 'third generation')
- The Sun-Moon cult then came and stole the 'second generation' manual.

Bixie should therefore be derived from a small subset of the confused 'second generation' manual (since it was limited to what the two Huashan members could quote from memory, and presumably they didn't quote everything). If we assume that the more original content the better, then Bixie should be far weaker than DFBB's copy, though it may well be more coherent, since it has gone through LYT's interpretation.

[Wu Wudi]

I think FQY and LHC has a greater potential than DFBB. The Dugu 9 Swordplay is a technique that takes a lifetime to master with unlimited potential.

While it's true that Dugu 9 Jian has more potential than the Sunflower techniques, it doesn't really address the question of whether FQY or DFBB is more powerful. The Sunflower technique could be easier to learn or its power could be obtained faster. It's extremly likely that DFBB could have benefited more from the Sunflower manual than FQY did from the DG9J.

Bixie swordplay was suppose to be superior to incomplete Sunflower manual, but why aren't Yue Buquan and Lin Pingzhi on the same level as DFBB. Was it because the two aren't smart enough to full understand the swordplay or doesn't have enough time to improve? Also how strong was DFBB before he castrated himself?

I'm guessing Yue and Lin never reached DFBB's levels because they lacked both time and talent. Unlike the other two practitioners of the Sunflower manual, DFBB was portrayed as a pretty dangerous fellow even before he had obtained it.

[aniking_8]

What would happen to DFBB if he didn't master Sunflower manual? Like would he become a stronger leader for Sun and Moon sect and how will he fight against LWC and RWX?

[bliss]

Wouldn't Feng Qingyang have the same problem the first time he meets Dongfang Bubai?

I think one of the other theories we've mentioned is that one of the "great" experts FQY said he encountered during his lifetime could be Lin Yuantu.

[bliss]

Bixie swordplay was suppose to be superior to incomplete Sunflower manual, but why aren't Yue Buquan and Lin Pingzhi on the same level as DFBB. Was it because the two aren't smart enough to full understand the swordplay or doesn't have enough time to improve? Also how strong was DFBB before he castrated himself?

DFBB had more than 10 years to practice it.

[bliss]

I saw the debate in question, but I still can't see where this idea that DFBB's manual was less complete than Bixie came from. As far as I can see, the sequence of events was:

- The two Huashan members each memorised half of the original manual
- They transcribed each half from memory - this is the messed-up 'second generation' Sunflower manual.
- Lin Yuantu (as a monk) came to visit to urge them not to practice it. They agreed, but started quoting sections from the manual and asked for an explanation.
- Lin Yuantu memorised the quotations, casually explained them, and later wrote them down to become Bixie sword art (i.e. 'third generation')
- The Sun-Moon cult then came and stole the 'second generation' manual.

Bixie should therefore be derived from a small subset of the confused 'second generation' manual (since it was limited to what the two Huashan members could quote from memory, and presumably they didn't quote everything). If we assume that the more original content the better, then Bixie should be far weaker than DFBB's copy, though it may well be more coherent, since it has gone through LYT's interpretation.

I guess it's a slight matter of interpretation.

Because the memorized version pieced together with Yue and Cai's two halves were completely incomprehensible, I'm not sure if they actually transcribed anything at this point. The novel stated that they memorized and recited what they knew to Duyuan, not that they actually brought out what they had written down. I think that it was only after Lin Yuantu studied, interpreted, and explained the recited verses to Yue and Cai that they penned down the version that the Demon Cult Elders snatched.

Hence the theory that Yue and Cai's version is inferior because that version was their interpretation of Duyuan's explanation while Bixie Jianfa was Duyuan's own interpretation after further contemplation when he left Huashan.

Interestingly enough, it was only after obtaining this version that the Demon Cult Elders were able to break all the moves of the Five Peaks Sect (as recorded on the walls of Huashan).

[aniking_8]

DFBB had more than 10 years to practice it.

I don't think he practice it that much after he becomes gay and probably all he do is stay hidden doing girls stuffs like makeups.

[Han Solo]

I guess it's a slight matter of interpretation.

Because the memorized version pieced together with Yue and Cai's two halves were completely incomprehensible, I'm not sure if they actually transcribed anything at this point. The novel stated that they memorized and recited what they knew to Duyuan, not that they actually brought out what they had written down. I think that it was only after Lin Yuantu studied, interpreted, and explained the recited verses to Yue and Cai that they penned down the version that the Demon Cult Elders snatched.

Hence the theory that Yue and Cai's version is inferior because that version was their interpretation of Duyuan's explanation while Bixie Jianfa was Duyuan's own interpretation after further contemplation when he left Huashan.

Interestingly enough, it was only after obtaining this version that the Demon Cult Elders were able to break all the moves of the Five Peaks Sect (as recorded on the walls of Huashan).

1) The novel didn't specify which one was taken, but it may be that the original scripted KHBD was taken.

2) Surely the elder's breaking the Five Sword movement is not due to KHBD. The book was considered their leader's arts, not the elders.

Han Solo

[bliss]

While it's true that Dugu 9 Jian has more potential than the Sunflower techniques, it doesn't really address the question of whether FQY or DFBB is more powerful. The Sunflower technique could be easier to learn or its power could be obtained faster. It's extremly likely that DFBB could have benefited more from the Sunflower manual than FQY did from the DG9J.

Just playing devil's advocate, it's equally likely that FQY had the 20+ years he stated was necessary to completely master DG9J. Who knows what surprising positions complete MASTERY of DG9J would be able to produce!?!