Going the other way (Imigrating from US to China)

[Yeung Gor]

I have had this thought for a while, moving to China to experience a totally different environment. I'm not sure if this would be a good idea. I don't know what to expect. My friends and family would be totally shock if I did do this. I don't even know what I could do for a living there. But it just seems like it would be fun. I want to get a direct experience of the history and culture of my ancestry.

Anyone else have this thought as well?

[xJadedx]

I don't know about this being a good idea. A family friend is actually considering moving back to live in China and pretty much every single one of her friends are against it.

The thing is, if you want to experience the history of China, then traveling for an extensive period of time in China would do. As for the culture - I don't know which you're refering to. If you mean like China in ancient times, you're not going to experience it because the majority of it is gone. The modern Chinese culture is not something I want to be part of. From people I know who have gone back to visit, the current Chinese culture is pretty "bad" in their opinions. There is an incredible overdose of nationalism and patriotism that isn't necessarily the best thing. You're not allowed to make a remotely negative comment about China (even if it's true) without people jumping on you. As for the people, they apprently just don't seem cultured nor sophisticated enough.

Also, there is a high chance you will be viewed as an "outsider," since you are going back from the US.

For me, I'd only go back to China to visit. I'd never want to live there (at least not in Mainland).

[Yeung Gor]

I don't know about this being a good idea. A family friend is actually considering moving back to live in China and pretty much every single one of her friends are against it.

The thing is, if you want to experience the history of China, then traveling for an extensive period of time in China would do. As for the culture - I don't know which you're refering to. If you mean like China in ancient times, you're not going to experience it because the majority of it is gone. The modern Chinese culture is not something I want to be part of. From people I know who have gone back to visit, the current Chinese culture is pretty "bad" in their opinions. There is an incredible overdose of nationalism and patriotism that isn't necessarily the best thing. You're not allowed to make a remotely negative comment about China (even if it's true) without people jumping on you. As for the people, they apprently just don't seem cultured nor sophisticated enough.

Also, there is a high chance you will be viewed as an "outsider," since you are going back from the US.

For me, I'd only go back to China to visit. I'd never want to live there (at least not in Mainland).

Thanks for the input. My brother went on a vacation there once, and he said they treated him well. I guess I'll have to make a trip there.

[Trinie]

One of my close friends came to visit her family in China a couple of times and likes it sooo much that she even wants to live there in the future. However, her views about China are too ideal and not realistic. She has only been there to visit so of course she does not know how life in China really is. Basically, her views are based on a vacationing type of view. She always says that her relatives are nice to her, but of course it is only because she is visiting from the US. I do not even want to imagine how they will treat her if she lived there in the long term. Also, her immediate family is all here in the US. She is really dependant and will not be able to take care of herself....

I have imagined living abroad before, but not in China.. One of my other friends comes from China and is trying everything to stay permanently in the US. I actually adapt pretty well so if the country has high standards of living, I can adapt to it. But if it is a third world country, I am not too sure about that. One of my other friends is currently in Thailand and would not want to live there. She would only visit since her husband is from there.... Visiting and living in a place are 2 different worlds...I suggest that you work there or live there in the short term to see how you like it. Then you can decide if you want to stay permanently or come back to the US.

[Yeung Gor]

One of my close friends came to visit her family in China a couple of times and likes it sooo much that she even wants to live there in the future. However, her views about China are too ideal and not realistic. She has only been there to visit so of course she does not know how life in China really is. Basically, her views are based on a vacationing type of view. She always says that her relatives are nice to her, but of course it is only because she is visiting from the US. I do not even want to imagine how they will treat her if she lived there in the long term. Also, her immediate family is all here in the US. She is really dependant and will not be able to take care of herself....

I have imagined living abroad before, but not in China.. One of my other friends comes from China and is trying everything to stay permanently in the US. I actually adapt pretty well so if the country has high standards of living, I can adapt to it. But if it is a third world country, I am not too sure about that. One of my other friends is currently in Thailand and would not want to live there. She would only visit since her husband is from there.... Visiting and living in a place are 2 different worlds...I suggest that you work there or live there in the short term to see how you like it. Then you can decide if you want to stay permanently or come back to the US.

I do agree with you, visiting and living is different. That's why I want to live there to see how it really is.

[Guo Xiang]

If you really intend to immigrate to China, do it step by step instead of going head in. Live there for an extensive period of time before deciding, because after sometime you may have an idea if China is the place you really want to be at.

[Yeung Gor]

If you really intend to immigrate to China, do it step by step instead of going head in. Live there for an extensive period of time before deciding, because after sometime you may have an idea if China is the place you really want to be at.

Good idea.

[rosely]

If I get to choose I prefer to stay in Shanghai, well if there is an offer with a good pay for a job there. Also it's easy to visit Seoul and Tokyo if I stay there. All my favorite places to visit . Anyway it's cool to be an expatriate

[flamer]

I plan to live and work in China in the future, not sure about citizenship but definitely long term migration.

[Leontief]

OP I'm doing exactly what you're talking about. My family moved from mainland China to the U.S. when I was 9, and I've been living there ever since. So now I'm 22, and right before I graduated I decided on moving back to China. My family and friends were against it, but the decision was pretty easy for me. I've been in Shanghai for almost 3 months now, as a language student at Fudan University. I applied mostly to get a visa so I can stay for an extended period of time (my F student visa is multiple entry for 180 days). If you get the L tourist visa it's usually 30-60 days.

Anyways, in terms of my experience so far, there's a few things I think you should consider:

Number one is the living standard. Even though SH is one of the most developed cities in China, there are some things that will take getting used to. The two toughest for expats are water and bathrooms. Neither is clean or easily accessible in public areas. At college in the U.S., there's drinking fountains everywhere and the bathrooms are okay. In Shanghai, you'll just have to buy bottled water and get used to the smell (of the public bathrooms, the bottled water smells okay ).

Another big thing is the cost of living. If you're coming out of college, unless it's top top notch (i.e. Harvard, Yale), you're getting salaries that are competitive at the local level. Around 4000 RMB (700 dollars) a month. To put things in perspective, I'm renting a "decent" place, and it's 900 RMB for a 10 sq-meter (about 100 sq. ft.) room. I have a roommate but he has his own room. We share a bathroom and a small kitchen. There's internet, cable, etc. So in terms of housing it's pretty standard. The dorms at Fudan University are pretty good but ridiculously expensive, 90 RMB for a double and 120 RMB for a single, per day.

In terms of food, when you eat out, the hole-in-the-wall places cost around 10-20 RMB per meal, but when you go with friends it'll probably be somewhere fancier, for me it's been around 100 RMB. When you buy anything, unless it's from the fake goods market, you're essentially paying U.S. dollar prices with RMB. For example a printer will cost 1000 RMB and a crappy cellphone will be 300 RMB. Last I checked an iPhone costs a couple thousand.

Language is obviously a big thing as well. Locals cannot speak English (college students can understand basic stuff), and many older people speak Shanghainese, a dialect of Chinese which native Mandarin speakers cannot understand. If you speak Mandarin at home though, you should be able to get around okay. However, if you have an American accent when you speak, get ready to pay 10x the price for everything you buy on the street.

That's all for now. If you have any questions, let me know!

-edit: Someone mentioned the whole overly patriotic/nationalist sentiment. In terms of my contacts with various students at Fudan over the past few months, there's absolutely none of this. In fact many of them openly make fun of the Chinese government's actions. There's no "ultra-liberals", but people are definitely open to outside opinions. Now if you talk with people 50 years+, you might see some of this, but old people tend to be overly fond of their governments everywhere (imo) and plus you won't be in contact with many of them anyways.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Ah, thank you for bumping this post, Leontief. I've been meaning to reply to the OP. By and large I agree with your sentiments; see below.

Anyways, in terms of my experience so far, there's a few things I think you should consider:

Number one is the living standard. Even though SH is one of the most developed cities in China, there are some things that will take getting used to. The two toughest for expats are water and bathrooms. Neither is clean or easily accessible in public areas. At college in the U.S., there's drinking fountains everywhere and the bathrooms are okay. In Shanghai, you'll just have to buy bottled water and get used to the smell (of the public bathrooms, the bottled water smells okay ).

Agree. On the plus side, you get cheapo taxis everywhere! That must be the thing I miss most about living in Shanghai/China; taxis taking you across the city for just a few bucks USD.

Another big thing is the cost of living. If you're coming out of college, unless it's top top notch (i.e. Harvard, Yale), you're getting salaries that are competitive at the local level. Around 4000 RMB (700 dollars) a month.

Eh? If you are getting a job teaching English, you should be making 8000-12000 RMB/month minimum in cities like Shanghai. Even poorer inland cities will pay you at least 5000-6000 RMB/month. On the other side, if you are getting a 'real' job, then yes, salaries can be considerably lower. As an addendum, some places will refuse to hire TEFL teachers with Asian faces, as their clients (ie, student's parents) expect 'real' Western teachers for the very high fees they pay.

To put things in perspective, I'm renting a "decent" place, and it's 900 RMB for a 10 sq-meter (about 100 sq. ft.) room. I have a roommate but he has his own room. We share a bathroom and a small kitchen. There's internet, cable, etc. So in terms of housing it's pretty standard. The dorms at Fudan University are pretty good but ridiculously expensive, 90 RMB for a double and 120 RMB for a single, per day.

You have a really cheap place! But yes, the Fudan dorms (all foreign student dorms at all Chinese universities, really) are notorious for bilking foreign students; it's a longstanding joke on the Fudan campus that their new Guanghua Twin Towers (光华楼) was paid for with money scalped from foreign students.

When I was studying abroad in Fudan in 2006, I stayed at the Tonghe International Mansion just outside Fudan's campus; it was a 3 bed/2 bath set-up with brand new furnishings and TV, a nice living room with sofas and a full kitchen. Really nice place; it cost me and my buddies 50 rmb for each of the two smaller rooms and 60 rmb for the master bedroom (which I took). I don't know what prices are like now, but I can't imagine it'll have skyrocketed too much, especially with the recent crash in housing prices.

In terms of food, when you eat out, the hole-in-the-wall places cost around 10-20 RMB per meal, but when you go with friends it'll probably be somewhere fancier, for me it's been around 100 RMB. When you buy anything, unless it's from the fake goods market, you're essentially paying U.S. dollar prices with RMB. For example a printer will cost 1000 RMB and a crappy cellphone will be 300 RMB. Last I checked an iPhone costs a couple thousand.

Quick addendum/correction; by 'buy anything', I think what you really mean is 'anything electronic', in which case, you're absolutely right. That's because there really is not much of a margin on most electronics; the price we get for many electronics in the States have already been slashed to the absolutely bottom by Chinese manufacturers (which is why so many US manufacturers have been *****ing about going out of business)!

Language is obviously a big thing as well. Locals cannot speak English (college students can understand basic stuff), and many older people speak Shanghainese, a dialect of Chinese which native Mandarin speakers cannot understand. If you speak Mandarin at home though, you should be able to get around okay. However, if you have an American accent when you speak, get ready to pay 10x the price for everything you buy on the street.

Agree. In negotiating, after they give you a price, be sure to ask them what the 'lowest price' is (最低价格). That should drop it down a lot, and THAT is the price you start bargaining them down from, NOT the initial price.

As a note, bargaining is not as prevalent in Shanghai as in other places; however, it's definitely still there on the street. Just don't expect to get much (or any) bargaining in the fancier/better malls, such as 龙之梦 (aka Cloud 9 Mall) near 中山公园 (Zhongshan Park). In those places, what you can do is ask if there are any discounts (打折) or any promotions (活动). Short of that, you'll get about as much bargaining done as in western malls; ie, maybe on some big-ticket items, but not much else.

-edit: Someone mentioned the whole overly patriotic/nationalist sentiment. In terms of my contacts with various students at Fudan over the past few months, there's absolutely none of this. In fact many of them openly make fun of the Chinese government's actions. There's no "ultra-liberals", but people are definitely open to outside opinions. Now if you talk with people 50 years+, you might see some of this, but old people tend to be overly fond of their governments everywhere (imo) and plus you won't be in contact with many of them anyways.

Agree. What JadedWen'er is referring to is primarily an internet phenomenon that has been grossly overhyped by Western media. You will find way more debate and discussion in China about problems with Chinese society and governance than, quite frankly, exist even in the US. This goes from professors at Fudan to KTV girls at Chengdu (I have experience with both ).

On a personal amusing note, when I was at Shanghai and karaoking with some local Fudan buddies, I thought I would choose the song '没有共产党，没有新中国', ie, 'If There Was No Communist Party, There Would Be No New China', just for fun. Old school super-patriotic, super pro-party song. Everyone laughed their asses off, and when they were done, proceeded to sing the song with a remarkably mocking gusto. Honestly, ripping on and spoofing official government patriotism-instilling attempts is a national past-time; I know one song which changed the old song 'Learn from Lei Feng! A great example to us all!' into, 'Learn from Lei Feng! A great example to us all! But if Lei Feng ate some ecstasy, he would be just like me!' "学习雷锋! 好榜样! 雷锋吃了摇头丸." It rhymes in Chinese

What there can be a sensitivity to is outsiders coming to China and trash-talking China. If people feel you are not engaging in constructive criticism, but simply China-bashing, then yes, you can expect some backlash, although in my experience, even then most people are quite polite about it; they won't get in your face, you can just expect to not hang out with them very often afterwards.

[xJadedx]

Agree. What JadedWen'er is referring to is primarily an internet phenomenon that has been grossly overhyped by Western media. You will find way more debate and discussion in China about problems with Chinese society and governance than, quite frankly, exist even in the US. This goes from professors at Fudan to KTV girls at Chengdu (I have experience with both ).

On a personal amusing note, when I was at Shanghai and karaoking with some local Fudan buddies, I thought I would choose the song '没有共产党，没有新中国', ie, 'If There Was No Communist Party, There Would Be No New China', just for fun. Old school super-patriotic, super pro-party song. Everyone laughed their asses off, and when they were done, proceeded to sing the song with a remarkably mocking gusto. Honestly, ripping on and spoofing official government patriotism-instilling attempts is a national past-time; I know one song which changed the old song 'Learn from Lei Feng! A great example to us all!' into, 'Learn from Lei Feng! A great example to us all! But if Lei Feng ate some ecstasy, he would be just like me!' "学习雷锋! 好榜样! 雷锋吃了摇头丸." It rhymes in Chinese

What there can be a sensitivity to is outsiders coming to China and trash-talking China. If people feel you are not engaging in constructive criticism, but simply China-bashing, then yes, you can expect some backlash, although in my experience, even then most people are quite polite about it; they won't get in your face, you can just expect to not hang out with them very often afterwards.

I wrote what I wrote based on Chinese family friends and family members' own experience when they went back to visit, so no, it's not some random Internet phenomenon I read on the CNN or something. Many of them felt very uncomfortable with the nationalism exhibited by the people they have met, and did not think it as a good experience.
I do agree with Leontief, however, that they probably have experienced such because the people they met and dealt with were older Chinese people (30's and up). With a younger generation, it may not have been as bad.

It's good to hear that there are more open discussions regarding the government now in China, but then again, just because you had a positive experience does not mean everyone going to China will. I was just putting one of the possibilities out there, so people can be prepared if they have to.

[Ghaleon]

I wrote what I wrote based on Chinese family friends and family members' own experience when they went back to visit, so no, it's not some random Internet phenomenon I read on the CNN or something. Many of them felt very uncomfortable with the nationalism exhibited by the people they have met, and did not think it as a good experience.
I do agree with Leontief, however, that they probably have experienced such because the people they met and dealt with were older Chinese people (30's and up). With a younger generation, it may not have been as bad.

It's good to hear that there are more open discussions regarding the government now in China, but then again, just because you had a positive experience does not mean everyone going to China will. I was just putting one of the possibilities out there, so people can be prepared if they have to.

There is a lot of nationalism. But how about those young'uns who go night clubbing? I don't think they give a damn about nationalism lol. In fact, i think teenagers and people in their 20's care about shopping, dating and make-up more than nationalism. They are "north-american"-ized. The hip hop and r n b culture.

Clubbing in Shanghai -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CRqbdtrj0w

[Ren Wo Xing]

I wrote what I wrote based on Chinese family friends and family members' own experience when they went back to visit, so no, it's not some random Internet phenomenon I read on the CNN or something. Many of them felt very uncomfortable with the nationalism exhibited by the people they have met, and did not think it as a good experience.
I do agree with Leontief, however, that they probably have experienced such because the people they met and dealt with were older Chinese people (30's and up). With a younger generation, it may not have been as bad.

It's good to hear that there are more open discussions regarding the government now in China, but then again, just because you had a positive experience does not mean everyone going to China will. I was just putting one of the possibilities out there, so people can be prepared if they have to.

It's not that I've had a positive experience; it's that I've never had a negative experience with rabid nationalism in conversations at all, regardless of age or location, and I've gone back every 2 years or so, some times for months at a time. Chinese people know better than anyone else the problems with China, because they are the ones living with them, and you'll hear them complain more about government corruption, water issues, problems with the national exam system, etc., more than anyone else. I'll actually submit to you that the average Chinese person criticizes China/the Chinese government more than the average American does his or her government.

I don't know your family friends or members, but I respectfully suggest that their experiences may have stemmed from perhaps being less than politic in discussing China's perceived shortcomings? Aside from the millions of online monkeys who spit nationalistic vitriol, the only times I have ever witnessed Chinese people being angry/defensive/nationalistic in a face-to-face discussion is when foreigners adopt a lecturing, dismissive, or hoity-toity attitude in criticizing China: "Oh, China's so bad, you guys can't even vote! You guys can't even drink tap water!" Alternately, "[Chinese people] apprently just don't seem cultured nor sophisticated enough." Yeah, that'll do it too. In general, Chinese people really, really don't like the idea of other people coming to their country and bashing it or its people; even the impression of it can stir up hostility.

I'm sure there's uber-nationalistic Chinese people (many of the people in their 70's or 80's) in the real world as with any other country, and as in any other country, they are definitely the exception to the rule.

CLARIFICATION:

As an addendum, what I posted is true for conversation. There are a bunch of other things which WILL stir up uber-nationalism in China, including but not limited to Japan and Japanese actions, Tibet, perceived foreign oppression, etc. etc. That stuff is the shit you need to avoid; ie, it's great if you like to wear kimonos, but if you wear one in public in certain historically sensitive places, be ready for some ugly looks. And if you go to the Nanjing Massacre Memorial Hall dressed in one, get ready to be jumped . If the US accidentally bombs another Chinese embassy like they did the one in Belgrade (many Chinese still believe it was on purpose), it'd probably be better if you said you were Canadian for a few weeks. And so on and so forth.

Those things can definitely be unpleasant aspects of China that could definitely use improvement.

[xJadedx]

I don't know your family friends or members, but I respectfully suggest that their experiences may have stemmed from perhaps being less than politic in discussing China's perceived shortcomings? Aside from the millions of online monkeys who spit nationalistic vitriol, the only times I have ever witnessed Chinese people being angry/defensive/nationalistic in a face-to-face discussion is when foreigners adopt a lecturing, dismissive, or hoity-toity attitude in criticizing China: "Oh, China's so bad, you guys can't even vote! You guys can't even drink tap water!" Alternately, "[Chinese people] apprently just don't seem cultured nor sophisticated enough." Yeah, that'll do it too. In general, Chinese people really, really don't like the idea of other people coming to their country and bashing it or its people; even the impression of it can stir up hostility.

The examples of bad experience with nationalism I provided all came from Chinese family friends and members who all have spent certain parts of their lives in China, and who speak Chinese perfectly. They are also people who I know will make comments in a civilized and constructive manner. So they're not random "foreigners" who went and decided to "bash" China. In fact, I was surprised that they couldn't stand the nationalism, because many of them are usually very patriotic towards China.

Here's an example of how someone I know, who is a Chinese person (i.e., grew up in China, speaks perfect Chinese, is not a "foreigner"), got called a "traitor" and "wang ben" when she was in China - she used a bathroom at an apartment which smelt and did not flush properly. She then made a comment saying that it may be a good idea to improve the plumbing/watering system in a big city. This wasn't some out of line or unreasonable comment, and was merely a comment on how such things should be improved. Dirty bathrooms are not sanitary, and given that the city was indeed a huge one, it is something that should be considered. She got criticized by pretty much everyone around her, saying that she forgot her Chinese roots and is too westernized.

So yah, I get that if you go to a country and start saying random hostile stuff, people will get pissed (I don't even like it when random people who know nothing about China start saying random crap about it). But the thing is, there are people who are so nationalistic to the point that they would get offended at some very small thing that isn't even meant to be hostile. And that's not really right.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Here's an example of how someone I know, who is a Chinese person (i.e., grew up in China, speaks perfect Chinese, is not a "foreigner"), got called a "traitor" and "wang ben" when she was in China - she used a bathroom at an apartment which smelt and did not flush properly. She then made a comment saying that it may be a good idea to improve the plumbing/watering system in a big city. This wasn't some out of line or unreasonable comment, and was merely a comment on how such things should be improved. Dirty bathrooms are not sanitary, and given that the city was indeed a huge one, it is something that should be considered. She got criticized by pretty much everyone around her, saying that she forgot her Chinese roots and is too westernized.

Huh, yeah, that's a bit much. I've never heard of anyone getting called a traitor when they complain about plumbing (wtf?). The only faint possibility I can think of is that she might have already annoyed them previously with other casual comments about how dirty or uncomfortable the place/city is. Even still...did they actually call her a traitor (汉奸)?!

Although honestly, I don't understand why she would connect a dirty bathroom with a problematic toilet to problems with the entire city's plumbing (I believe you said this was a personal apartment?). A dirty bathroom usually means the host didn't clean it properly, and flushing problems usually means the individual toilet has something clogged, so...yeah...drawing connections to the city's plumbing from that is a bit weird...

[xJadedx]

Huh, yeah, that's a bit much. I've never heard of anyone getting called a traitor when they complain about plumbing (wtf?). The only faint possibility I can think of is that she might have already annoyed them previously with other casual comments about how dirty or uncomfortable the place/city is. Even still...did they actually call her a traitor (汉奸)?!

Although honestly, I don't understand why she would connect a dirty bathroom with a problematic toilet to problems with the entire city's plumbing (I believe you said this was a personal apartment?). A dirty bathroom usually means the host didn't clean it properly, and flushing problems usually means the individual toilet has something clogged, so...yeah...drawing connections to the city's plumbing from that is a bit weird...

Not as bad as "han jian," maybe something similar to "pan tu." "Wang ben" was definitely one of them, forgetting one's roots.

I think she had been to several places where the toilets were pretty bad, and made that one specific comment after using the bathroom at someone's house. Who knew, maybe the family just got a bit too defensive.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Not as bad as "han jian," maybe something similar to "pan tu." "Wang ben" was definitely one of them, forgetting one's roots.

I think she had been to several places where the toilets were pretty bad, and made that one specific comment after using the bathroom at someone's house. Who knew, maybe the family just got a bit too defensive.

叛徒 is still pretty bad, although not as bad as 汉奸...but yeah, as best as I can imagine, it's probably the family getting too defensive...still a crazy overreaction. Or maybe they spent hours cleaning the bathroom in preparation for her arrival

I know that I once seriously pissed off my grandparents when I refused to use their bathtub (despite long scrubbing of it by my dear grandma) on account of it being dirty (the tub was a bit cracked and yellow with age, although it was perfectly clean). Thankfully, they didn't call me a 汉奸....

[Leontief]

Yeah I don't know how the girls handle the bathrooms in China. My little brother wouldn't even use the public ones, he'd hold it in for like 2 hrs until we'd get back to our hotel.

A couple of things about teaching English. One is most people do it illegally. A company usually pays you under the table for 100 to 200 RMB per hour. You can easily earn 10k+ RMB per month teaching English, but you can't legally stay in China doing this (e.g. you can't get a valid work visa). If you try to work for one of the English teaching companies legally, the norm now is teaching certificate plus 2 years of teaching experience. And yes they strictly prefer white skin, blond hair, and blue eyes over Chinese Americans. Whenever you submit a resume you will have to attach a recent photo.

On the whole career search deal, I've done some digging since I was looking for a job. Basically if you are not a Chinese citizen, to work legally as a full-time employee, you need 2 years of relevant job experience (not necessarily in China) and a letter from your previous company. If you're 24+ all of this can be forged, but if you're fresh out of college looking for a decent job, I'd keep your fingers crossed.

When I mentioned buying things, I was talking about electronics and also some basic things such as a bag of potato chips. The large bag ones here are 20-30 RMB, which is actually more expensive than the supermarket price in USD. A standard size Dove chocolate bar is 20 RMB. The real name brand cloths I've seen (Lacoste, Polo, etc.) have always been more expensive than U.S. counterparts. 300 to 400 RMB for a shirt is standard. I really can't think of anything less expensive other than street food and 青岛 beer, which tastes watered down everywhere

[Ren Wo Xing]

When I mentioned buying things, I was talking about electronics and also some basic things such as a bag of potato chips. The large bag ones here are 20-30 RMB, which is actually more expensive than the supermarket price in USD. A standard size Dove chocolate bar is 20 RMB. The real name brand cloths I've seen (Lacoste, Polo, etc.) have always been more expensive than U.S. counterparts. 300 to 400 RMB for a shirt is standard. I really can't think of anything less expensive other than street food and 青岛 beer, which tastes watered down everywhere

Go for the Chinese branded stuff (a bit harder to find, I know). A lot of the foreign stuff, including the dove chocolate, cloths et. al, are actually made in China, exported to the outside, then RE-imported back to China, sometimes hitting tariffs both ways, which is why that stuff's expensive. Go strictly for internal China brands, and prices will drop way down.

Oh, and don't drink Qingdao. Try some local brands