Do you think there is life after death? And if so, can we prove it?

[yittz]

I think you have indeed got the crux of the issue. Are you willing to die to prove it? Though there have been anecdotal reports about rebirth, it is still very much a hypothesis/proposition.

How do you prove it by dying? People who have passed on and reincarnated or entered the next relm can't notify people they knew that it's true.

[wkeej]

How do you prove it by dying? People who have passed on and reincarnated or entered the next relm can't notify people they knew that it's true.

that's why i am saying that the concept of rebirth currently is still much a proposition/hypothesis. even if people claimed that they are reincarnated, there are still doubts, right?

[fridaythe13th]

I'm smelling a lot of firepower in here.

But I agree, that is why I say it is impossible to prove. Hence my other question - the point of reincarnation being.....?

[remember_Cedric]

Go through what? Afraid of what? I am not asking you to define spirituality, I am asking what you are refering to when you use the word faith in your posts and what you mean by it works for people. It's like an advertising slogan, "Faith is best, faith works", faith is best compared to what? what exactly are you refering to when say it works?

Why be so vague and wishy washy with your replies?

Thousands of years, it's been the religious groups afraid of questioning, of reasoning, of science.

Well, aren't we talking about "giving a chance"? So, I'm saying "Why can't you temporarily put away that, uh, principle of yours, and give Christianity a chance - go through it?" (Don't worry, you won't lose your mind or whatever! ), because I cannot give word after word to justify it all. It's just like, if you're hungry, and need a meal, I can't fulfill your hunger by eating on your behalf. So, why does people keep questioning when the instructions is as simple as "Believe and you'll see".

Do I sound wishy-washy? Perhaps, due to my bad tenses and grammar. I've tried to correct and sound my best.... just for you! Have you not tried linking my messages to comprehend where I'm coming from, BTW? Do I need to draw a flow chart to show how faith works? lol

Alright! I'll simplify it just for you!

Faith, in dictionary means "Believing without seeing", yes? So, for Christians, it means the same. Just to share (and not advertising nor prompting since you've asked), Christianity strongly links their belief with Faith. We give trust to Him, to believe that the promises in the bible will be fulfilled. The words in the bible never contradict, but you have to understand from the different "story" background. Simply saying, don't read it by words, comprehend the moral of the "story" and understand.

From where did you get the idea of this? (though it's nothing new since I've been seeing/hearing such a line for as long as I've lived):-

Thousands of years, it's been the religious groups afraid of questioning, of reasoning, of science.

To conclude this, I have been through religion besides Christianity before claiming as a Christian. I do see the difference. So, my word is: Go through it!

[darkcser]

Don't do it yittz!!

Give LoAtIS (Lord of All that I Survey) aka Banjoism a try first!

It offers virtually omnimpotent power in the after life without asking for any modification of your behavior in life! All you have to do is believe (even hand clapping is optional). The best part is everyone's a winner! No one is excluded from this joyous after life. Where other religions are based on exclusion, LoAtIS is based on inclusion! It's virtually compatible with all religions so you don't have to argue with your friends! They believe they'll reincarnate after death? They will in their private little reality! They believe they'll bath in the sunlight on Mt. Celestia? They will in their private little reality! The best part is that due to poorly understood theories of quantum mechanics they can do all of this at the same time as you enjoy your private little reality!


Say it with me! I believe in LoAtIS! LoAtIS is the truth! LoAtIS will set you free!

[Ghaleon]

Don't do it yittz!!

Give LoAtIS (Lord of All that I Survey) aka Banjoism a try first!

It offers virtually omnimpotent power in the after life without asking for any modification of your behavior in life! All you have to do is believe (even hand clapping is optional). The best part is everyone's a winner! No one is excluded from this joyous after life. Where other religions are based on exclusion, LoAtIS is based on inclusion! It's virtually compatible with all religions so you don't have to argue with your friends! They believe they'll reincarnate after death? They will in their private little reality! They believe they'll bath in the sunlight on Mt. Celestia? They will in their private little reality! The best part is that due to poorly understood theories of quantum mechanics they can do all of this at the same time as you enjoy your private little reality!


Say it with me! I believe in LoAtIS! LoAtIS is the truth! LoAtIS will set you free!

are you mocking religion?

[Ken Cheng]

Don't do it yittz!!

Give LoAtIS (Lord of All that I Survey) aka Banjoism a try first!

Banjoism?

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[Ghaleon]

No.

Banjoism.


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[darkcser]

are you mocking religion?

Why would you say that?

Faith is very important. I just don't want to see it go to waste.

Yes, I accept converts as well as donations.

Cookie to anyone that can place the Banjoism reference. Only one thing Standsout.

[wkeej]

They believe they'll reincarnate after death? They will in their private little reality!

Hmm, believe = proposition/hypothesis. Any proof or empirical evidence?

[yittz]

Well, aren't we talking about "giving a chance"? So, I'm saying "Why can't you temporarily put away that, uh, principle of yours, and give Christianity a chance - go through it?" (Don't worry, you won't lose your mind or whatever! ), because I cannot give word after word to justify it all. It's just like, if you're hungry, and need a meal, I can't fulfill your hunger by eating on your behalf. So, why does people keep questioning when the instructions is as simple as "Believe and you'll see".

Do I sound wishy-washy? Perhaps, due to my bad tenses and grammar. I've tried to correct and sound my best.... just for you! Have you not tried linking my messages to comprehend where I'm coming from, BTW? Do I need to draw a flow chart to show how faith works? lol

Alright! I'll simplify it just for you!

Faith, in dictionary means "Believing without seeing", yes? So, for Christians, it means the same. Just to share (and not advertising nor prompting since you've asked), Christianity strongly links their belief with Faith. We give trust to Him, to believe that the promises in the bible will be fulfilled. The words in the bible never contradict, but you have to understand from the different "story" background. Simply saying, don't read it by words, comprehend the moral of the "story" and understand.

From where did you get the idea of this? (though it's nothing new since I've been seeing/hearing such a line for as long as I've lived):-


To conclude this, I have been through religion besides Christianity before claiming as a Christian. I do see the difference. So, my word is: Go through it!

You haven't given me anything new.

The problem with accepting some scientific facts is that it kill the joy of believing in false hope. It's like if I give you antibiotics for a common cold, you will feel all better and attribute it to that wonderful drug. Give me that I will complain that it made my stomach upset if I do take it, but more likely I will not be complaint in the first place.

The bible has a lot of misinterpreted morals. It's conservative, it rejects the minority and conformist happy, despite what it says about accepting everyone. People who haven't read the bible or koran or whatever aren't lacking in morals, so it just goes to show how rigid you end up relying on just one book.

Promise of afterlife is the biggest problem. So what, you won't pray to God/Jesus/Allah or believe in him, if there is no heaven or virgins waiting for you? Why must there be a cookie at the end? It's just like an advertisement ploy, except better because you believe you will get the rewards, but no one has seen the company hand them out. In order to attract costumers, it's completely free. Jesus went one step further, hey why work so hard to get our reward, he took all the customers away by promising same reward, courtesy of his father, but just pray to him. Protestants made it even easier, you don't have to purge yourself every week, you can do it in the convenience of your own home. Explain to me the morals of 'selling' a product that isn't guaranteed nor evidenced based to unsuspecting 'souls' and give them false hope in order to make them behave better.

EDIT: lol missed darkser's post, I know it's extreme, but tell me what's the difference between banjoism and any other religion.

[dictionary]

Interesting topic.

One thing I've come to terms with is that science and religion are very difficult to prove to be co-existing

Personally, I think that both can coexist, proven science and true religion.

Can we prove the afterlife using theory? For example, when water evaporates, the moisture returns to the sky and as clouds fill up, eventually we have rain. Can this cycle also suggest that reincarnation follows the same principle? The body passes, the soul leaves and enters a new-born person, all memories of the past life are cleared, but a part of the past still remains. When death occurs, the cycle is restarted.

I don't get it. If memories of past life are cleared, then how can the past still remain?

What do you think? Is there a life after death? When our bodies pass away, does our soul depart from this world? Or do we simply pass onto a new body, erased of our memories from the past life? Are we a product of our previous life?

What I think is, we don't have a soul. We are the soul. When the soul dies, life ceases to exist. We can only live again if God brings us back to life. That's what I believe. What exactly is the purpose of reincarnation? Is it a never-ending cycle of rebirth?

[darkcser]

Interesting topic.

What exactly is the purpose of reincarnation? Is it a never-ending cycle of rebirth?

I thought reincarnation (at least the Buddhist variety) maintained that you reincarnate until you reached the Bodhisattva level -then you've escape the endless cycles of death and rebirth.

[Ghaleon]

^^ In Buddhism, Bodhisattvas forgo final liberation in order to help liberate others. so i guess they "kinda" escape the cycle.

What does Banjoism have to say?

[Ghaleon]

Well, the theory is that humans can get reincarnated as animals and insects. So, the other way round is probably also true.

Lots of insects die too, and there are many undocumented species out there waiting to be discovered. And not least of all, lots of living beings die everyday, so if reincarnation is true and working, then that's where all the 'extra' souls come from. The 'extra' isn't really extra when you think of it.

So the total number of living organisms on earth is always constant?

President Obama just killed a fly on national TV yesterday. It'd be ironic if that fly were to someday be reincarnated as some evil dictator who threatens the U.S.

more than likely the evil dictator will be reincarnated as a fly (if we were to assume reincarnation and karma).

[wkeej]

So the total number of living organisms on earth is always constant?

more than likely the evil dictator will be reincarnated as a fly (if we were to assume reincarnation and karma).

With regard to your first question, seems untrue for human beings, right? Unless, non humans (like flies) are becoming humans.

For second point, will the "fly" revisit Obama one day and fight it out again?

[Ghaleon]

With regard to your first question, seems untrue for human beings, right? Unless, non humans (like flies) are becoming humans.

GX's argument is that animals can become human and vice-versa. She argues that souls always carry on to the next life and there is never any creation of new souls. But if that were true that would imply that the population of all the living organisms (including humans) on earth is always constant since there is never any creation (or destruction) of souls.

Did all that make sense?

[Guo Xiang]

The bible has a lot of misinterpreted morals. It's conservative, it rejects the minority and conformist happy, despite what it says about accepting everyone. People who haven't read the bible or koran or whatever aren't lacking in morals, so it just goes to show how rigid you end up relying on just one book.

Promise of afterlife is the biggest problem. So what, you won't pray to God/Jesus/Allah or believe in him, if there is no heaven or virgins waiting for you? Why must there be a cookie at the end? It's just like an advertisement ploy, except better because you believe you will get the rewards, but no one has seen the company hand them out. In order to attract costumers, it's completely free. Jesus went one step further, hey why work so hard to get our reward, he took all the customers away by promising same reward, courtesy of his father, but just pray to him. Protestants made it even easier, you don't have to purge yourself every week, you can do it in the convenience of your own home. Explain to me the morals of 'selling' a product that isn't guaranteed nor evidenced based to unsuspecting 'souls' and give them false hope in order to make them behave better.

Yittzy, why do you quote the virgin stuff and seems to think of it as canon? You do know that those are the twisted beliefs of certain individuals and groups? It's like stating that the terrorists represent Islam, and you know that's not the case.

Real Christians don't sell their religion, much less shoving it in your face and telling you that people who don't believe are going to Hell. They keep their mouths shut, and that's why there's so much negativity around the religion, because the loud ones tend to be the in-your-face and you-are-going-to-hell types.

It's not the religion, but the people.

[Trinie]

With regard to your first question, seems untrue for human beings, right? Unless, non humans (like flies) are becoming humans.

For second point, will the "fly" revisit Obama one day and fight it out again?

Well, I believe that insects, animals and other non humans can reincarnate into humans if you earn the right to. THat is why, you should be happy to be human because you may have earned the right to become one. Who knows, maybe one day that fly will revisit Obama and get revenge on him. Haven't you guys read those ancient heavenly stories where animals become gods and all?? They also reincarnate into humans either to get revenge or repay someone for their good deeds. They have that theme in a lot of stories. One good example is the story of Bai She. In one life, she was a snake that was going to get killed, but a little kid blew a flute to save her(something like that). The snake then turned into a little girl and told him that she will repay him... Therefore, she then reincarnated into a human to become his wife and repay him...Ok, this is just based on some legends and stories so who knows if they are true???

I guess none of us will really know any of this until we one day experience it ourselves.

[Ghaleon]

well i find the concept of reincarnation pretty interesting. That means i could've been a girl my previous life.