Do you think there is life after death? And if so, can we prove it?

[darkcser]

The books in the Bible are believed to be divinely inspired. They were written by prophets. What are prophets? They are the channel to God. Some even had the power of the Holy Spirit (called the Gift of Prophecy). Moses could call upon God to divide the Red Sea. Elijah could call upon God to send flarestorms down to earth. So these "superheroes" of God were some of the people responsible for writing the books in the Bible.

Of course you may not believe in the prophets and their miracles. That's all due to faith. Your either have the faith or you don't. Simple as that. Most (if not all) Christians believe in the Bible and believe it to be divinely inspired.

I'm not sure about Elijah's contributions but Moses didn't write the Old Testament nor did Jesus write the New Testament. All religious text need to claim divine inspiration or they wouldn't be religious texts. Look at Journey to the West. It describes a cosmology filled with divinities and supernatural happenings but very few treat it as a religious text.

It's rather ironic you bring up superheroes. I may be projecting but I'd guess some of the scorn non-believers have toward those with "true faith" is akin to talking to someone who believes Superman is real.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Non-believer says "Why do you believe Superman is real?"

True believer says "Superman standards for Truth, Justice and the American Way! He's an inspiration to us all!"

Non-believer says "But how do you know he exists?"

True believer says "In Secret Origins in the Silver Age, it specifically says Kal-El was born on Krypton... and due to his Kryptonian physiology he has super strength, super speed, super voice-mimicry, etc. under a yellow sun."

Non-believer says "Yes, but how do you know he exists?"

True believer says "I'm a True Believer, and I have faith that he exists. Can you prove he doesn't exist? Well, can you?"

Non-believer says "Can you prove that the tooth fairy, Santa Claus and the Easter bunny don't exist?"

True believer says "Now you're just mocking me. If you don't believe he exists then you're anti-Superman, and against Truth, Justice and the America Way!"

Non-believer says "..."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Ghaleon]

I'm not sure about Elijah's contributions but Moses didn't write the Old Testament nor did Jesus write the New Testament. All religious text need to claim divine inspiration or they wouldn't be religious texts. Look at Journey to the West. It describes a cosmology filled with divinities and supernatural happenings but very few treat it as a religious text.

You forgot about tradition. Tradition claims that Moses wrote some books of the Old Testament Bible. The Ethiopian Orthodox tradition claims that Enoch was one of their patriarchs. Enoch was one of the figures in Genesis. The Catholic Carmelite tradition claims that Elijah is one of their patriarchs. So besides the Bible itself, you also have long-standing traditions right?

You're right, Jesus did no write anything. Although the gospels do claim to contain Jesus' teachings and parables (the most imporatnt one being the Sermon on the Mount). Much of Christian theology is written by Apostle Paul in his letters to the churches. The most popular letter of Paul is Romans. Lot of Christian theologians have studied Romans intensively. The gospels were "generally" attributed to their namesakes.

Yes, every religious group claims that their writings and scriptures are divinely inspired. Christians and Jews are no different. They claim that their scriptures were written by prophets who were the channel to God.

The difference with Journey to the West is that it was meant to be a novel and not a account of historic happenings. Granted there are some religious lessons in it. But the Bible is meant to record historic happenings which is why geneology is important. It is one of the most unique books in the world as it claims to record history since Adam and Eve and display God's messages to humankind through the prophets. There's really no other religious book like it. Buddhist sutras on the other hand teach about Buddhist philosophies like emptiness and are not really concerned about historic happenings.

Again, you either accept this by faith or not. If you have faith, you believe it is true. If you do not have faith, you think its all made-up folklore. That's really all there is to it.

P.S. i have lot of interest in Bible and Sutra studies

[kidd]

Go through what? Afraid of what? I am not asking you to define spirituality, I am asking what you are refering to when you use the word faith in your posts and what you mean by it works for people. It's like an advertising slogan, "Faith is best, faith works", faith is best compared to what? what exactly are you refering to when say it works?

Why be so vague and wishy washy with your replies?

Thousands of years, it's been the religious groups afraid of questioning, of reasoning, of science.

I don't think she/he's being wishy washy about it. Something really can't be explained or described.

It's like the feeling of love. A person (let's call him person A) who has never fallen in love would never know the feeling however much it is explained to him. You might say, if you are in love you will want to see that person all the time, you will care for his well being, you will feel jealous when he's talking to another girl etc. Person A will recognise that those are sypmtoms of falling in love. But, does he really know the feeling? No.

That's what faith is. You keep asking and asking 'remember_Cedric' to explain faith to you and accuse him/her of brushing you off but the fact is, it's not something that can be easily explained. He/she is trying as best he/she can.

Sometimes, I wish I have their kind of faith. Maybe if I did, I will be a more optimistic person instead of adding 'but..' in all the things I read, see and experience.

I have read how much your mind affect your body and your life. I have all those knowledge. But, I still unable to apply since it involved subconcious that you can't really control. Maybe if I have more faith, it will be much more easier.

[kidd]

^^ In Buddhism, Bodhisattvas forgo final liberation in order to help liberate others. so i guess they "kinda" escape the cycle.

Bodhisattva is someone who has reach the level where they can escape the cycle, but, the choose to stay back to help others.

GX's argument is that animals can become human and vice-versa. She argues that souls always carry on to the next life and there is never any creation of new souls. But if that were true that would imply that the population of all the living organisms (including humans) on earth is always constant since there is never any creation (or destruction) of souls.

Did all that make sense?

You forgot those that are rotting in hell and enjoying themselves in heaven.

According to Buddhism, a soul can go to 6 realms i.e.

Deva (Gods)
Asura (Demi-gods)
Human
Animal
Hungry Ghost
Naraka (Hell beings)

[Guo Xiang]

Bodhisattva is someone who has reach the level where they can escape the cycle, but, the choose to stay back to help others.


You forgot those that are rotting in hell and enjoying themselves in heaven.

According to Buddhism, a soul can go to 6 realms i.e.

Deva (Gods)
Asura (Demi-gods)
Human
Animal
Hungry Ghost
Naraka (Hell beings)

So where are the insects? Is it included in 'animals' or... 'hell beings'?

[kidd]

So where are the insects? Is it included in 'animals' or... 'hell beings'?

I always assume it's under 'animals'.

[remember_Cedric]

I don't think she/he's being wishy washy about it. Something really can't be explained or described.

It's like the feeling of love. A person (let's call him person A) who has never falls in love would never know the feeling however much it is explained to him. You might say, if you are in love you will want to see that person all the time, you will care for his well being, you will feel jealous when he's talking to another girl etc. Person A will recognise that those are sypmtoms of falling in love. But, does he really know the feeling? No.

That's what faith is. You keep asking and asking 'remember_Cedric' to explain faith to you and accuse him/her of brushing you off but the fact is, it's not something that can be easily explained. He/she is trying as best he/she can.

Sometimes, I wish I have their kind of faith. Maybe if I did, I will be a more optimistic person instead of adding 'but..' in all the things I read, see and experience.

I have read how much you mind affect your body and your life. I have all those knowledge. But, I still unable to apply since it involved subconcious that you can't really control. Maybe if I have more faith, maybe it will be much more easier.

Kidd, I'd say you have used wisdom in your reply!

So, Yittz,

Can Science explain everything? What is Love and/or Faith made of? Any medication to nurse someone who is emotionally broken? Can any medication encourage someone who has lost faith? A permanent solution? (since you love asking all the questions seeking instantaneous results without trying to comprehend and understand)

And, how many people and questions have you asked Christians around you, who are willing to answer? Your "many" appears to be telling me you have questions that goes on forever (that sure reminds me of someone who is not keen to make any purchase yet going from door to door and ask for prices the fun of it, and perhaps you'd come by and ask more questions. In short, an utter waste of time.)

Can any medication or science bring back a broken family? In Christianity, the teaching of right and wrong taught us that - the roots to cause a broken family. There can be chances to savage of a broken family and certainly is difficulty. There's no instant solution or special formulae than having faith and courage. There are examples, which one has to see, to really feel it all make sense.

For some of your questions, til I have the time and chance, I'll try to get back. (IF I remember)

For a realist, that is my opinion, not a Christian's.

[Guo Xiang]

Kidd, I'd say you have used wisdom in your reply!

So, Yittz,

Can Science explain everything? What is Love and/or Faith made of? Any medication to nurse someone who is emotionally broken? Can any medication encourage someone who has lost faith? A permanent solution? (since you love asking all the questions seeking instantaneous results without trying to comprehend and understand)

And, how many people and questions have you asked Christians around you, who are willing to answer? Your "many" appears to be telling me you have questions that goes on forever (that sure reminds me of someone who is not keen to make any purchase yet going from door to door and ask for prices the fun of it, and perhaps you'd come by and ask more questions. In short, an utter waste of time.)

Can any medication or science bring back a broken family? In Christianity, the teaching of right and wrong taught us that - the roots to cause a broken family. There can be chances to savage of a broken family and certainly is difficulty. There's no instant solution or special formulae than having faith and courage. There are examples, which one has to see, to really feel it all make sense.

For some of your questions, til I have the time and chance, I'll try to get back. (IF I remember)

For a realist, that is my opinion, not a Christian's.

There was this time (which wasn't a long time ago), I had more faith in science than in... well, faith.

But then I've lost my faith and trust in science, because I realise how untrustworthy it is, and how it keeps changing arguments. While the latter is fair especially in terms of updating outdated information, but not so when it happens like once every few days or few months, indicating that scientists have no idea what they are talking about!

If that's the case, I'd rather throw in my towel with faith. At least faith is consistent.

[yittz]

I don't think she/he's being wishy washy about it. Something really can't be explained or described.

It's like the feeling of love. A person (let's call him person A) who has never fallen in love would never know the feeling however much it is explained to him. You might say, if you are in love you will want to see that person all the time, you will care for his well being, you will feel jealous when he's talking to another girl etc. Person A will recognise that those are sypmtoms of falling in love. But, does he really know the feeling? No.

That's what faith is. You keep asking and asking 'remember_Cedric' to explain faith to you and accuse him/her of brushing you off but the fact is, it's not something that can be easily explained. He/she is trying as best he/she can.

Sometimes, I wish I have their kind of faith. Maybe if I did, I will be a more optimistic person instead of adding 'but..' in all the things I read, see and experience.

I have read how much your mind affect your body and your life. I have all those knowledge. But, I still unable to apply since it involved subconcious that you can't really control. Maybe if I have more faith, it will be much more easier.

If you go back to the original point when faith was mentioned: "Can you explain what faith you are refering to and how it works for people". I am asking clarity on Cedric's arguement, not asking to define faith. You can't just use it in an arguement and then don't follow it up when it's challenged. If you can't back it up, don't use it simple as that. Say you can't explain it would suffice, rather than dragging it on by bring up irrelevant points like wisdom and lack of trial etc. which further cannot be backed up.

[yittz]

Kidd, I'd say you have used wisdom in your reply!

So, Yittz,

Can Science explain everything? What is Love and/or Faith made of? Any medication to nurse someone who is emotionally broken? Can any medication encourage someone who has lost faith? A permanent solution? (since you love asking all the questions seeking instantaneous results without trying to comprehend and understand)

And, how many people and questions have you asked Christians around you, who are willing to answer? Your "many" appears to be telling me you have questions that goes on forever (that sure reminds me of someone who is not keen to make any purchase yet going from door to door and ask for prices the fun of it, and perhaps you'd come by and ask more questions. In short, an utter waste of time.)

Can any medication or science bring back a broken family? In Christianity, the teaching of right and wrong taught us that - the roots to cause a broken family. There can be chances to savage of a broken family and certainly is difficulty. There's no instant solution or special formulae than having faith and courage. There are examples, which one has to see, to really feel it all make sense.

For some of your questions, til I have the time and chance, I'll try to get back. (IF I remember)

For a realist, that is my opinion, not a Christian's.

Why don't you reply to my original post instead of piggy backing on someone elses reply to a post that's a few days old and you've already attempted replying to.

See you don't understand science. No one claims science can explain everything, in fact science is about asking questions, testing them, which lead to more questions. It's about seeking with an open mind. If you do some research you'll find highly logical theories on love and faith. Anyhow, this is more philosophy than science.

You don't need a book to teach you those things.

My original post you replied to was a statement, hardly door to door price sniffing when you approached first. If you were to showcase a product and call me out on my statement, then isn't the least you can do is backup your side of it?

[yittz]

There was this time (which wasn't a long time ago), I had more faith in science than in... well, faith.

But then I've lost my faith and trust in science, because I realise how untrustworthy it is, and how it keeps changing arguments. While the latter is fair especially in terms of updating outdated information, but not so when it happens like once every few days or few months, indicating that scientists have no idea what they are talking about!

If that's the case, I'd rather throw in my towel with faith. At least faith is consistent.

Changing arguments? You will have to give examples. Explanations are based on the best available evidence at that time. Science is fluid, unlike the bible which is static.

[Guo Xiang]

Changing arguments? You will have to give examples. Explanations are based on the best available evidence at that time. Science is fluid, unlike the bible which is static.

Sorry, but I hardly remember because I actually came across too many of such examples in my work, which handles news.

I see scientists waste time on stupid things too, for example, doing the same research over and over again over the years just to reconfirm one single ROCK-CASTED PROVEN fact, when they should be doing other important stuff like finding ways to save or protect the earth, or some other stuff that can actually benefit or help their respective industries.

It's just like spending years and loads of money on a few researches that try to prove that the earth is round.

[remember_Cedric]

If you go back to the original point when faith was mentioned: "Can you explain what faith you are refering to and how it works for people". I am asking clarity on Cedric's arguement, not asking to define faith. You can't just use it in an arguement and then don't follow it up when it's challenged. If you can't back it up, don't use it simple as that.

And, I have explained (many times) faith is simply, the (same) faith as define in dictionary. It works when you trust the religion and it's teaching, not blindly of course. Every pre-believer asks that.

Say you can't explain it would suffice, rather than dragging it on by bring up irrelevant points like wisdom and lack of trial etc. which further cannot be backed up.

Too much of talking and explanation for something intangible, is never more worthy than an experience. It'd be surprising if that hasn't crossed your mind.

Why don't you reply to my original post instead of piggy backing on someone elses reply to a post that's a few days old and you've already attempted replying to.

See you don't understand science. No one claims science can explain everything, in fact science is about asking questions, testing them, which lead to more questions. It's about seeking with an open mind. If you do some research you'll find highly logical theories on love and faith. Anyhow, this is more philosophy than science.

You don't need a book to teach you those things.

My original post you replied to was a statement, hardly door to door price sniffing when you approached first. If you were to showcase a product and call me out on my statement, then isn't the least you can do is backup your side of it?

Sure, I don't have that equivalent knowledge of science and so how is it that you sing praises of science like it can do wonders? Sorry, your approach of "Scientist" can't be applied on religion. You should have known. It's not about taking risk rather than open mind, with a closed heart.

highly logical theories on love and faith? >> if you ask a enlightened pastor, he can tell you better on how to begin with opening heart to faith....rather than asking it in SPCNET, which is clearly, a forum. What do you expect?

Anyhow, this is more philosophy than science. >> where does philosophy come from? - Religion! So, like I've said much earlier, Science and Faith cannot replaced one another.

There seems quite an amount of science invention now, that is actually going back time.

P/s: Don't meant to be rude, but I don't read every single detail again and again, which explains why I'm missing out on posts. - No time!

[yittz]

Sorry, but I hardly remember because I actually came across too many of such examples in my work, which handles news.

I see scientists waste time on stupid things too, for example, doing the same research over and over again over the years just to reconfirm one single ROCK-CASTED PROVEN fact, when they should be doing other important stuff like finding ways to save or protect the earth, or some other stuff that can actually benefit or help their respective industries.

It's just like spending years and loads of money on a few researches that try to prove that the earth is round.

You lose faith in science because you don't get to decide where the research funding goes? 'Facts', or theories is on a spectrum, it becomes 'rock cast' because of repeated experiments showing the same thing. The whole idea of good science is replicability, and finding consistency in replicated data. I can't speak for those researchers, but I would hope they have their reasons for doing what they do. Imo you can't primarily blame science or scientists, but those who invest in the research.

[remember_Cedric]

Changing arguments? You will have to give examples. Explanations are based on the best available evidence at that time. Science is fluid, unlike the bible which is static.

How would you back that comparism up? You had been through years bible studies?

[yittz]

And, I have explained (many times) faith is simply, the (same) faith as define in dictionary. It works when you trust the religion and it's teaching, not blindly of course. Every pre-believer asks that.

Too much of talking and explanation for something intangible, is never more worthy than an experience. It'd be surprising if that hasn't crossed your mind.

Sure, I don't have that equivalent knowledge of science and so how is it that you sing praises of science like it can do wonders? Sorry, your approach of "Scientist" can't be applied on religion. You should have known. It's not about taking risk rather than open mind, with a closed heart.

highly logical theories on love and faith? >> if you ask a enlightened pastor, he can tell you better on how to begin with opening heart to faith....rather than asking it in SPCNET, which is clearly, a forum. What do you expect?

Anyhow, this is more philosophy than science. >> where does philosophy come from? - Religion! So, like I've said much earlier, Science and Faith cannot replaced one another.

There seems quite an amount of science invention now, that is actually going back time.

P/s: Don't meant to be rude, but I don't read every single detail again and again, which explains why I'm missing out on posts. - No time!

Blindly? Where do you draw the line when you place trust on a near 2k year old book?

Personal experience and anecdotes is very weak on the spectrum of evidence. What you experience may not mean jack to other people. Schizophrenics experience things that to them are very real. The brain is capable of twisting reality, changing perceptions etc. Just because you feel it, doesn't make it true. Especially when every mind is naturally biased.

Science don't do wonders, apparently religion does.

Once again go off topic on a point you brought up. Like I expected, didn't even bother doing a simple google search. I expect my local pastor to be better at fluffing answers.

Don't know how you can say philosophy come from religion. And how it matters when the former is dissecting the later apart.

Quite a bit of science going back in time - say what?

Your p/s: yeah sure, you miss the longest post on this current page, how convenient what does your book say about telling the truth? The post is still there, it's not too late to reply to it. Yeah it's hard to post a relevant reply that doesn't go off topic when you don't even bother reading the whole post.

[yittz]

How would you back that comparism up? You had been through years bible studies?

Your intepretation of my statement isn't my original intention. The faith in christianity is hopefully unchanging. Sure intepretations change to suit a group or a person's views, and moulded by the pressure exerted by society and science. The Church resist change, I thought that's obvious.

[Guo Xiang]

You lose faith in science because you don't get to decide where the research funding goes? 'Facts', or theories is on a spectrum, it becomes 'rock cast' because of repeated experiments showing the same thing. The whole idea of good science is replicability, and finding consistency in replicated data. I can't speak for those researchers, but I would hope they have their reasons for doing what they do. Imo you can't primarily blame science or scientists, but those who invest in the research.

Or maybe you want to make the decision? I just feel that there's much more important things the scientists should be focusing on. And if there are things already rock-casted, why don't we just move on and go on to other unexplored realms instead of staying in that small little frame? There may be doubts, okay, so leave some manpower there, instead of spending so much time and efforts in it when other areas would need those resources.

And then they tend to keep changing their minds too excessively. Yes, experiments and trial-and-error. But they keep publishing even before the facts are mature, and changed their minds only after publication, which makes us go spin rounds along with them. It's just like a company launching a product much earlier than initially planned, only to get slammed with negative reviews because the product has got many unfixed and undiscovered flaws.

And decades later, even those rock-casted facts rot away.

Apparently, science is unreliable.

[remember_Cedric]

Blindly? Where do you draw the line when you place trust on a near 2k year old book?

So, how much do you trust history? Or, do you take History lessons?

As far as I know, some "history" in the bible, applies itself in current life.

For instance, the lesson of Abram and Lot - the moral of the story is, if you do not obey and stray to do something of your wish, due to greed, you get screwed. Simple as that. Every line in that bible, has a story to tell, which is a walk you HAVE to go through to reflect on the moral of the stories.

Just like when one chooses greed and refuses to obey what is moral, they get screwed.

Personal experience and anecdotes is very weak on the spectrum of evidence. What you experience may not mean jack to other people. Schizophrenics experience things that to them are very real. The brain is capable of twisting reality, changing perceptions etc. Just because you feel it, doesn't make it true. Especially when every mind is naturally biased.

Which is why, I'm simply saying, you have a choice to choose to believe and go through it - be a Christian. If it doesn't make sense to you still, you can always take a step back and say "No", rather than having another person wasting their time to give explanations and all.

So, are you implying that all Christians are some sort of Schizophrenics or what? There were many senior Christians than I am, who had written long long list of explanation (til they gave) in the past posts, if you hadn't read those and wants me to post again, a backup....sorry, I'm too lazy to do so. You believe or not, is beyond me. I'm just a junior Christian who is willing to walk this path of faith.

Be reminded, Devil will always know his game. Science can perform wonders too, when devil comes into the picture.

Personal experience and anecdotes is very weak on the spectrum of evidence. What you experience may not mean jack to other people. Schizophrenics experience things that to them are very real. The brain is capable of twisting reality, changing perceptions etc. Just because you feel it, doesn't make it true. Especially when every mind is naturally biased.

& >>>> Contradictory??? Inconsistency

Science don't do wonders, apparently religion does.

Once again go off topic on a point you brought up. Like I expected, didn't even bother doing a simple google search. I expect my local pastor to be better at fluffing answers.

Sure, I forgot the availability of ONLINE BIBLE! Becareful if that pastor wears a designer suit!

Don't know how you can say philosophy come from religion. And how it matters when the former is dissecting the later apart.

Quite a bit of science going back in time - say what?

Your p/s: yeah sure, you miss the longest post on this current page, how convenient what does your book say about telling the truth?

I don't quite understand oozie slang of english. If I really spent time reading through everything and do researaches to back up, I'd need to take a few days of leave and sacrifice my sleep, which I wont! So, yes, I'm glad someone understands and reply from my perspective.

I don't have the darn time to quote every line from the bible (instead of Google) to show an example for a backup honestly. At least it appears to me, that I'll have to do that since you have so much of queries.

P/s: Tell me so if you would love to read me replying to you personally! I'd do it just for you provided time permits!!!

[remember_Cedric]

Your intepretation of my statement isn't my original intention. The faith in christianity is hopefully unchanging. Sure intepretations change to suit a group or a person's views, and moulded by the pressure exerted by society and science. The Church resist change, I thought that's obvious.

For example of an incident? What kind of change are you expecting? If it's against the faith, obviously not.