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Thread: remorse and leniency

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sourplum View Post
    Perjury and treason against the government deserving of death? Basically you're advocating for death against freedom of speech. If a person doesn't like a law and speaks out against the Government, are you saying they should be killed? And in the case of perjury, how is death an appropriate course of action? There are many reasons a person lies in a testimony or when giving evidence - they might have been blackmailed or had little choice but to produce false evidence. Don't look at everything at face value - MOTIVE is very important.
    Treason against the government is much more serious than freedom of speech, much more than speak out against the law of the government.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason

    In case of perjury, when you testify in the court, you should speak the truth, nothing but the truth. Perjury causes serious (sometimes catastrophe) consequence. How could you justify all the wrong doings? Justice should only look at the face value and consequences of the crime, not the reason behind it. There are reasons behind pretty much every crime.

    Obviously Van did not have any intentions of killing anyone.
    Are you trying to justify drug trafficking? He may not have the intention to kill anyone but his action could destroy numerous lives. Do you know how many lives especially teenagers have been destroyed due to drug??

    He was unemployed for months. He had to repay his brother as well as his own debt. Sometimes a person is forced to do things they don't want to. Even if he had found a cheap job, he still wouldn't have been able to pay off the loan. I'm not saying what he did was right, but you shouldn't always be so dismissing and judgmental without knowing the full picture.
    Don't live the life you can't afford? Sure, he and his brother owed like AU$35,000. That is quite a bit, but doesn't justify him to become a drug dealer. He and his brother could have worked hard to pay back the debt slowly like other people instead of find a quick way out. He knew exactly what he was doing. Justice only care about what the person have done, not the reason behind it. Being poor does not justify wrong doing. Trust me, there are lot and lot of people that are much poorer than him and they live a honest life.

  2. #82
    Senior Member Guo Xiang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post



    Don't live the life you can't afford? Sure, he and his brother owed like AU$35,000. That is quite a bit, but doesn't justify him to become a drug dealer. He and his brother could have worked hard to pay back the debt slowly like other people instead of find a quick way out.
    He had a due date for his debt.
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  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guo Xiang View Post
    He had a due date for his debt.
    Tell the creditor that he doesn't have the money on the due date but he will pay them back slowly with interest. Get two jobs and work overtime to earn the money to pay it back. I was in a very tight budget when I was a student at university with a income of about $1000 a month and I still have to pay for rent, phone, car insurance, ect... and drug trafficking was never an option for me.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    Tell the creditor that he doesn't have the money on the due date but he will pay them back slowly with interest. Get two jobs and work overtime to earn the money to pay it back. I was in a very tight budget when I was a student at university with a income of about $1000 a month and I still have to pay for rent, phone, car insurance, ect... and drug trafficking was never an option for me.
    I find it hard to believe that your budget is really that tight if you choose to use a car. When I was in uni, I walked campus in the first year. Then, after I moved to a farther place, I ride motorcyle (second hand) because it's more convinient and uses up less petrol. So, of course, drug trafficking was never an option for you. Because you were not really in a desperate situation, even with the suppose 'tight budget'.

    I can safely say that you know absolutely nothing about Ah Long. Nothing. You will never be able to repay the loan of Ah Long if you pay back slowly because the interest grow very fast.
    Last edited by kidd; 06-21-09 at 09:07 PM.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

  5. #85
    Senior Member Trinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidd View Post
    I find it hard to believe that your budget is really that tight if you choose to use a car. When I was in uni, I walk campus in the first year. Then, after I moved to a farther place, I ride motorcyle (second hand) because it's more convinient and uses up less petrol. So, of course, drug trafficking was never an option for you. Because you were not really in a desperate situation, even with the suppose 'tight budget'.

    I can safely say that you know absolutely nothing about Ah Long. Nothing. You will never be able to repay the loan of Ah Long if you pay back slowly because the interest grow very fast.
    I totally agree and can say that I never had a car and still don't have one right now. All through university, I either walked or took the bus and never had a car to drive. I guess it is easy for TC to say because he has not been in such a desperate situation like that before. If you are never faced with such a serious and desperate situation, you will NEVER truly understand it....
    Respect other people's opinions and views. If we learn how to do that than all of these fights and arguments will not occur.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kidd View Post
    I find it hard to believe that your budget is really that tight if you choose to use a car. When I was in uni, I walk campus in the first year. Then, after I moved to a farther place, I ride motorcyle (second hand) because it's more convinient and uses up less petrol. So, of course, drug trafficking was never an option for you. Because you were not really in a desperate situation, even with the suppose 'tight budget'.
    I was living in a small city when I was in university. It was an old car that my sister gave it to me. It was a 8 year old Nissan Sentra with low mileage. The car insurance is very cheap in that province. It's like $800 per year. Luckily, the car was very reliable and rarely broke down. When I moved to Toronto 2 years ago, I gave it to my uncle and it's still good to these days . How do you know I wasn't in a desperate situation? During those years at university, I lived a pretty lonely life. I had many classmates that always complaining about financial problem but they having party almost every weekend. If I lived the life like they do, I would probably in big debt.

    I can safely say that you know absolutely nothing about Ah Long. Nothing. You will never be able to repay the loan of Ah Long if you pay back slowly because the interest grow very fast.
    I heard about Loan Shark and of course I would never be stupid enough to loan money from them. I don't feel comfortable to borrow money for luxury especially loan shark. I live with what I have and have been always living below the mean. My question is "why did he loan money from them in first place?". You can say this is a free world, people can do whatever they want and that is none of your business. I agree with that but action has consequences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinie View Post
    I totally agree and can say that I never had a car and still don't have one right now. All through university, I either walked or took the bus and never had a car to drive. I guess it is easy for TC to say because he has not been in such a desperate situation like that before. If you are never faced with such a serious and desperate situation, you will NEVER truly understand it....
    Car doesn't have to be expensive. Trinnie, if you don't care about luxury and show off to friends and relatives then you can own a car easily. Get a 2-4 years old Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla, or Nissan Sentra with low mileage. It will cost you like $10,000-$15,000!! Those cars aren't fancy but very reliable and inexpensive to maintain. I think the car dealers offer very good deal right now with very low interest rate thanks to the recession. Regarding desparate situation, it's not a matter of facing it but how comes you get there. I never have done anything foolishly that lead me to that situation. I would not loan money from loan shark, period. I would never live beyond the mean because I know the consequences.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    Car doesn't have to be expensive. Trinnie, if you don't care about luxury and show off to friends and relatives then you can own a car easily. Get a 2-4 years old Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla, or Nissan Sentra with low mileage. It will cost you like $10,000-$15,000!! Those cars aren't fancy but very reliable and inexpensive to maintain. I think the car dealers offer very good deal right now with very low interest rate thanks to the recession. Regarding desparate situation, it's not a matter of facing it but how comes you get there. I never have done anything foolishly that lead me to that situation. I would not loan money from loan shark, period. I would never live beyond the mean because I know the consequences.
    So, I guess if your sibling happen to load from loan shark, you will not lift a finger to help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    How do you know I wasn't in a desperate situation? During those years at university, I lived a pretty lonely life. I had many classmates that always complaining about financial problem but they having party almost every weekend. If I lived the life like they do, I would probably in big debt.
    So, unable to go to party with friends is a desperate situation?
    Last edited by kidd; 06-21-09 at 11:14 PM.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

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    Quote Originally Posted by kidd View Post
    So, I guess if your sibling happen to load from loan shark, you will not lift a finger to help.
    If I have the cash I will help them out and expecting them to pay me back with no interest. If I can co-sign so he/she can get a loan from bank, I would do it. However, I would not trafficking drug regardless. That is all I can do as a sibling. I will tell him/her that this is the only time I am willing to bail him/her out. If he/she borrows money from loan shark again, I will not involve.

    So, unable to go to party with friends is desperation?
    No, but still pretty boring. If people willing to live the way I lived when I was a student, they would not have to borrow money from the loan shark. I thought the nearly 20% interest rate of my credit card is already too high, the interest rate from loan shark is much much higher. I can't believe that there are people that are stupid enough to borrow money from them for gambling and other luxury. THey have seen the consequences of other people who borrow money from loan shark and they still borrow it themself. Well, that is the price they have to pay for their action.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loan_shark

  10. #90
    Senior Member Trinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    Car doesn't have to be expensive. Trinnie, if you don't care about luxury and show off to friends and relatives then you can own a car easily. Get a 2-4 years old Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla, or Nissan Sentra with low mileage. It will cost you like $10,000-$15,000!! Those cars aren't fancy but very reliable and inexpensive to maintain. I think the car dealers offer very good deal right now with very low interest rate thanks to the recession. Regarding desparate situation, it's not a matter of facing it but how comes you get there. I never have done anything foolishly that lead me to that situation. I would not loan money from loan shark, period. I would never live beyond the mean because I know the consequences.
    I honestly don't get where your logic is. It is true that owning a car does not need to be expensive, but can always get expensive. Who said that I needed to or wanted to show off to anyone?? $10,000-$15,000 is a lot to me since I honestly never had a real job in my life and my family was already helping me out. Even my brother does not dare to buy a used car for that much and you are saying that a car does not need to be expensive. It is not just the cost of the car, but the gas, insurance and so many other things. If the car is old, repairs for it will be a pain and can cost A LOT. You know what, you always need to take out of loans for school, for buying a car, house,etc... sometime in your life. How can that be avoided?? You need to get back to reality....
    Respect other people's opinions and views. If we learn how to do that than all of these fights and arguments will not occur.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    I was living in a small city when I was in university. It was an old car that my sister gave it to me. It was a 8 year old Nissan Sentra with low mileage. The car insurance is very cheap in that province. It's like $800 per year. Luckily, the car was very reliable and rarely broke down. When I moved to Toronto 2 years ago, I gave it to my uncle and it's still good to these days . How do you know I wasn't in a desperate situation? During those years at university, I lived a pretty lonely life. I had many classmates that always complaining about financial problem but they having party almost every weekend. If I lived the life like they do, I would probably in big debt.
    First of all, you're assuming an ideal situation. Lot of people get caught up in sticky situations and often poor judgement occurs as a result. Poor doesn't give u an excuse to do crime but there's a reason why poor nieghbourhoods have high crime rate.

    Secondly, perjury does not deserve the death penalty. That's insane.

    Thirdly, i can't believe you live in Toronto too

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghaleon View Post
    First of all, you're assuming an ideal situation. Lot of people get caught up in sticky situations and often poor judgement occurs as a result. Poor doesn't give u an excuse to do crime but there's a reason why poor nieghbourhoods have high crime rate.

    Secondly, perjury does not deserve the death penalty. That's insane.

    Thirdly, i can't believe you live in Toronto too
    Your real life best friend may be TC. Beware.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guo Xiang View Post
    Your real life best friend may be TC. Beware.
    and i know quite a few viet people too.... lol. but the ones i know are the opposite of TC
    Last edited by Ghaleon; 06-22-09 at 08:36 PM.

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    You never know... Maybe TC is an evil twin of a buddy of yours...
    别想把黑暗放在我的面前
    太阳已经生长在我心底
    不再有封闭的畏惧
    奔腾的灵魂飞上天际
    太阳 我在这里

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    Senior Member Trinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cesare View Post
    You never know... Maybe TC is an evil twin of a buddy of yours...
    I think IF TC acts the way he does at Spcnet, I highly doubt that Ghaleon would be friends with him.
    Respect other people's opinions and views. If we learn how to do that than all of these fights and arguments will not occur.

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    Senior Member Ghaleon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cesare View Post
    You never know... Maybe TC is an evil twin of a buddy of yours...
    Quote Originally Posted by Trinie View Post
    I think IF TC acts the way he does at Spcnet, I highly doubt that Ghaleon would be friends with him.
    lol. i'm just surprised that he's from toronto. and the fact that canada is a great safe place to live AND with no capital punishment. TC's too uptight, most of my friends are very laid back. who knows, maybe we have common friends

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    No, but still pretty boring. If people willing to live the way I lived when I was a student, they would not have to borrow money from the loan shark. I thought the nearly 20% interest rate of my credit card is already too high, the interest rate from loan shark is much much higher. I can't believe that there are people that are stupid enough to borrow money from them for gambling and other luxury. THey have seen the consequences of other people who borrow money from loan shark and they still borrow it themself. Well, that is the price they have to pay for their action.
    You know, I think your family might be poor, but you still have a pretty decent life and living environment. I don't think you have really been in any really desperate or sticky situation. If you have really been in as desperate a situation as Van Tuong Nguyen, your lack of empathy will be really bewildering. Seeing your world view and your view on various situations, I think you are very lucky. You grow up with good parenting, a family that instill strong moral value in you. But, not everyone living in those bad neighbourhood and making bad judgement have your previlege and luck.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghaleon View Post
    First of all, you're assuming an ideal situation. Lot of people get caught up in sticky situations and often poor judgement occurs as a result.
    Well, you need to think before making any important decision. For people who borrow money from loan shark, I think they know the consequence of many others who did the same and didn't have the money to pay back.

    Poor doesn't give u an excuse to do crime but there's a reason why poor nieghbourhoods have high crime rate.
    Agree. That is why I advocate harsh penalty for criminals.

    Secondly, perjury does not deserve the death penalty. That's insane.

    Thirdly, i can't believe you live in Toronto too
    Regarding perjury, I think it's depend on the consequence of it. If the consequences is too serious, then death penalty is acceptable.

    I live in Mississauga. I think it's close enough to claim that I live in Toronto.

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    Senior Member Ghaleon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    Well, you need to think before making any important decision. For people who borrow money from loan shark, I think they know the consequence of many others who did the same and didn't have the money to pay back.

    Agree. That is why I advocate harsh penalty for criminals.

    Regarding perjury, I think it's depend on the consequence of it. If the consequences is too serious, then death penalty is acceptable.

    I live in Mississauga. I think it's close enough to claim that I live in Toronto.
    That's the thing. We don't live in an ideal world. Humans make mistakes. People get into sticky situations. That's just in our nature. Does that mean they should die for their mistakes? I'm not talking about murder here btw. that's why i'm glad canada doesn't have the death penalty. it'll just ruin our moral values.

    so you're saying lying in court deserves death? that's absurd. btw doesn't singapore have the death penalty for all types of perjury?

    Yeah i live in mississauga too small world eh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghaleon View Post
    so you're saying lying in court deserves death? that's absurd. btw doesn't singapore have the death penalty for all types of perjury?
    *Singapore* probably has the death penalty for giving a traffic cop a dirty look.

    Yeah i live in mississauga too small world eh?
    Try not to kill each other, guys.

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