Chinese Americans seen in negative light.

[KChill]

Do you have any data to back up your claim?
I thought majority of North Americans (Canadians/Americans) belong to that category, not a very small percentage.

Trien Chieu, that would be nice, but to not have ANY reservations towards ANY group of people is something that's beyond the capacity of most humans, even if we're never confronted with it until it's time.

For example, a person from rural Canada who has never come into contact with say, a black person, can claim to hold no prejudices against them, but once they move to NYC, and are alone late at night in the subway with one it becomes a different story. Because then media-influenced stereotypes are bound to set in, it's just natural. And frankly, I don't think you should criminalize people for that, again it's just human nature.

[xJadedx]

I didn't say you SHOULD base your opinions on stereotypes, I said unfortunately thats all some have to go on....

I'm coming in late to this thread, but I don't think that having a negative reservation towards a particular group of people makes you a racist. It just makes you human. So few of us actually get to mingle with other people of different races on a constant basis....sadly, all we have to go from are the stereotypes promoted by the media...

That sentence sounds somewhat ambiguous in terms of interpretation, so that it could be interpreted as you saying that we can base opinions about other groups on stereotypes or media representations. Since if sometimes all we have to go on are media stereotypes, then perhaps it is ok to base our opinions of another group on these media stereotypes. If you didn't want to be misinterpreted, maybe you could have clarified. I was simply responding based on how I interpreted/extrapolated on what you wrote yourself.

[KChill]

Misinterpreting something is fine, the way you do it is another matter. But if you choose to go off foaming at the mouth everytime you don't agree with something someone else is saying, that's fine also. Good luck with your future aneurysm.

[xJadedx]

Misinterpreting something is fine, the way you do it is another matter. But if you choose to go off foaming at the mouth everytime you don't agree with something someone else is saying, that's fine also. Good luck with your future aneurysm.

Please enlighten me as to how I was going off "foaming at the mouth?"

This is a debate forum, where if you don't agree with something someone else said (be it as a result of interpretation or misinterpretation), you debate your points. I did so in a civilized manner, and provided back-ups for whatever arguments I made. In no way did I even make any personal jabs or ill-wishing, unlike what you have done. So if anyone should stop "foaming at the mouth," it should be you, dear.

[jiang bao]

Trien Chieu, that would be nice, but to not have ANY reservations towards ANY group of people is something that's beyond the capacity of most humans, even if we're never confronted with it until it's time.

For example, a person from rural Canada who has never come into contact with say, a black person, can claim to hold no prejudices against them, but once they move to NYC, and are alone late at night in the subway with one it becomes a different story. Because then media-influenced stereotypes are bound to set in, it's just natural. And frankly, I don't think you should criminalize people for that, again it's just human nature.

Well, if this Canadian person who had never seen a minority before is avoiding the black person in the subway simply because he is black, then this person is racist. If the black person looks like he could be trouble—e.g. threatening stares, checking you out, looking around to see if anyone else can see you two—then it’s natural to be on alert. (It doesn’t matter what race that person is… any person who acts suspiciously you should be wary of)

[Guo Xiang]

Edited: Previous post was missing.

[Ren Ying Ying]

Trien Chieu, that would be nice, but to not have ANY reservations towards ANY group of people is something that's beyond the capacity of most humans, even if we're never confronted with it until it's time.

For example, a person from rural Canada who has never come into contact with say, a black person, can claim to hold no prejudices against them, but once they move to NYC, and are alone late at night in the subway with one it becomes a different story. Because then media-influenced stereotypes are bound to set in, it's just natural. And frankly, I don't think you should criminalize people for that, again it's just human nature.

Human nature it is, but no one vindicated human nature. It is not a plea of insanity.

While it is "understandable" for that person to hold stereotypes against a certain race, it doesn't make it okay. Just like it is understandable for a starving man to steal food, but it doesn't mean he is not stealing, nor does it de-criminalize stealing.

I'm arguing that asians are in-tune with popular american culture.

What's popular american culture? Well its things like Hip-hop/R&B, Basketball (NBA), Action movies, Car import scene, Nightclubs, etc. Asians have a presence there. and i'm not only talking about popular asian stars. normal asians are into popular american culture.

There's also quite a few asian CEO's of companies like ATI Technologies and Nvidia. And lot of asians work for hi-tech companies like Microsoft. So asians have a presence in the hi-tech industry.

I think you're expecting asians to be in TV shows like Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Which is absurd since asians are only a minority group in north america.

I don't think anyone is arguing that "north american asians are not in tune with popular american culture". Heck, even the asians in asia are in tune with western pop culture.

But it doesn't hold true the other way around. The real question is whether or not North Americans believe that asian americans/canadians are in tune with western culture.

I do believe that on average, Americans' understanding of asian (american) culture is still lacking. Of course, it has gotten better over the years and certain areas that are more culturally diversified will be more in touch than other areas.

Sure, in Toronto (or other areas with a larger asian american population) there may be whites who watch korean soap operas, blacks who watch anime (not the cartoon network ones), and latinos who listen to jay chou, but the majority of North Americans probably have never seen kimchee or an asian who sucks at math . The unfortunate truth is that larger asian american representations in society are not extremely well spread outside of a few large cities.

it really depends where you're from. not all asians are smart geeks studying in universities. not all asians live in rich suburb neighbourhoods. even smart white people studying in university are bound to have a population of geeks. even white people living in rich suburb neighbourhoods are bound to be push-overs.

It's a stereotype. The appropriate sociological term for this description is "model minority". There is the connotation that Asian Americans are generally quiet and avoid trouble if possible. You can argue however you like about whether it's true or not, but the stereotype most certainly exists.

[Trien Chieu]

Well, if this Canadian person who had never seen a minority before is avoiding the black person in the subway simply because he is black, then this person is racist.

Good one.

If the black person looks like he could be trouble—e.g. threatening stares, checking you out, looking around to see if anyone else can see you two—then it’s natural to be on alert. (It doesn’t matter what race that person is… any person who acts suspiciously you should be wary of)

In this case, only stupid people who won't be alerted and worry about accusation of racism.

[jiang bao]

I don't think anyone is arguing that "north american asians are not in tune with popular american culture". Heck, even the asians in asia are in tune with western pop culture.

But it doesn't hold true the other way around. The real question is whether or not North Americans believe that asian americans/canadians are in tune with western culture.

I do believe that on average, Americans' understanding of asian (american) culture is still lacking. Of course, it has gotten better over the years and certain areas that are more culturally diversified will be more in touch than other areas.

Sure, in Toronto (or other areas with a larger asian american population) there may be whites who watch korean soap operas, blacks who watch anime (not the cartoon network ones), and latinos who listen to jay chou, but the majority of North Americans probably have never seen kimchee or an asian who sucks at math . The unfortunate truth is that larger asian american representations in society are not extremely well spread outside of a few large cities.

I was trying to tell him that, but he didn’t really get what I was saying and we were on different wavelengths.

The problem is, as you say, many non-Asians don’t get exposed to actual Asians. They go by what they see in the media. 1) China has a bad reputation for “stealing” American jobs, human rights abuse, and general rivalry with US, and 2) media portrayals of Asians, particularly Asian males are generally of certain archtypes, which I had mentioned in previous posts.

Also, the FOB’s give the race a bad rep too. They are impolite, selfish, and have no (American) social skills. They annoy the hell out of me. (Certainly not ALL of them, but the ones who are particularly annoying) I think I had mentioned the supermarket corn story as an example. On a smaller example, there’s this Fujianese lady who lives next door. Everytime she sees me she would stare at me with her crazy eyes (you know, the kind of eyes where a lot of white shows) and mouth open. I say hello and nod and stuff, but she keeps staring and says nothing except for a few times when she would ask me what a certain English apartment posting is saying. WTF. It’s like this EVERYTIME. Maybe she naturally has crazy eyes, but good god that’s annoying. Then this other Fujianese neighbor, who happens to be in a wheelchair, started ranting to me about how black people are dirty and vandalize the elevator and stuff the first time I met him. I try to hint him to cut it out without being rude. I guess he thought I was an a-hole for not agreeing with him. Now the mofo doesn’t even say hello when I run into him. After a few times I just pretend I don’t see him either. I should just be an a$$ and not even hold the door for him and junk, but he’s disabled so I just can’t slam the door in his face.

[Ren Ying Ying]

I was trying to tell him that, but he didn’t really get what I was saying and we were on different wavelengths.

The problem is, as you say, many non-Asians don’t get exposed to actual Asians. They go by what they see in the media. 1) China has a bad reputation for “stealing” American jobs, human rights abuse, and general rivalry with US, and 2) media portrayals of Asians, particularly Asian males are generally of certain archtypes, which I had mentioned in previous posts.

Also, the FOB’s give the race a bad rep too. They are impolite, selfish, and have no (American) social skills. They annoy the hell out of me. (Certainly not ALL of them, but the ones who are particularly annoying) I think I had mentioned the supermarket corn story as an example. On a smaller example, there’s this Fujianese lady who lives next door. Everytime she sees me she would stare at me with her crazy eyes (you know, the kind of eyes where a lot of white shows) and mouth open. I say hello and nod and stuff, but she keeps staring and says nothing except for a few times when she would ask me what a certain English apartment posting is saying. WTF. It’s like this EVERYTIME. Maybe she naturally has crazy eyes, but good god that’s annoying. Then this other Fujianese neighbor, who happens to be in a wheelchair, started ranting to me about how black people are dirty and vandalize the elevator and stuff the first time I met him. I try to hint him to cut it out without being rude. I guess he thought I was an a-hole for not agreeing with him. Now the mofo doesn’t even say hello when I run into him. After a few times I just pretend I don’t see him either. I should just be an a$$ and not even hold the door for him and junk, but he’s disabled so I just can’t slam the door in his face.

Sure, the media portrays certain Asian (American) stereotypes, but when does the media not portray stereotypes?

I do think a lot of the negative feelings generated against Asian (Americans) do come from the media--the news more so than popular media. Asian Americans, for the most part, are still not considered to be "American" by most Americans. Most Americans do not distinguish between Asians or even Asian Americans. Afterall, we are probably the most recent migrants as compared to many of the other races. Perhaps it is also because of the focus of history taught, but I think most White Americans do not have the apologetic attitude towards Asians as they do towards Blacks, Native Americans, Mexicans, etc. (Perhaps the Japanese get a better treatment.) Thus, the news has no guilt when it comes to portraying Asia (esp China) in a negative light.

I also wouldn't go about blaming "FOBs". Sure, SOME of them may give off a negative portrayal, but most of them (that I know of at least) don't behave "badly" aside from speaking broken english and not being in tune with certain pop culture (for the older generation). And as far as stereotypes & bad reputations go, "rude FOBs" are not anywhere near the idea of "closed minded racist whites", "gangster blacks", "stingy jews", "lazy latinos", etc. "Nerdy asians" perhaps, but "rude Asians" arn't that prevalent, yet. If you live in an area with few Asians and a couple of them happen to be rude, then maybe the association of rude FOBs will occur. Otherwise, I doubt most "negative views" of Asians come from misbehaving FOBs.

[jiang bao]

I don’t blame them entirely. They are just one factor. The Chinese radio station actually occasionally does public announcements asking people not to spit in the street and stuff. Surely, that’s the way they lived back in China (I still remember succinctly all the loogey of various fine colors on the roads in China when I was a kid), but that still doesn’t change the fact that they project a very poor image for the rest of Chinese and Chinese Americans.

And they do influence how other races perceive us. I have witnessed first hand how Chinese people are grouped into “they” because of their actions.

[ChuckC]

True, but at the end of the day, you can only control your own actions. If another Chinese person spits on the road, you can't erase that.

But it's not just Asians that have that problem. When some nazi skinhead beats up a black person, that gets projected on whites. If one Arab fundamentalist detonates himself at the local mall, that gets associated with all of Islam. Not fair, I know. But nothing in life is.

At the end of the day, I really don't think we're all that different . I don't consider Asians a different race, but it's interesting to me how many people do. It's a reality. So I live with it.

[Ren Ying Ying]

But it's not just Asians that have that problem. When some nazi skinhead beats up a black person, that gets projected on whites. If one Arab fundamentalist detonates himself at the local mall, that gets associated with all of Islam. Not fair, I know. But nothing in life is.

Exactly!

As far as racism goes...it happens with all races.

1/4 of white Americans may disapprove of marriages with Asians, but I am pretty confident that the percentage of first generation asians that disapprove of interracial marriages is much higher than that .

At the end of the day, most of us are Guo Xiangs .

[bella25]

The only solution is to steal their women and dilute their gene pool.

This is hilarious. One Asian guy told me how great it felt after he sc** a white woman, 'so powerful' were his words.


I am curious as to why the survey equates Asians to Chinese? It is not uncommon to find part Japanese part white American, may be it's a matter of time that there will be many part Chinese. Dilute their gene pool, After all the Japanese have been coming to the States in large numbers earlier than Chinese. There are Indian politicians, one is a governor. So whites are voting for asians too.

Come to think of it, this may be a good strategy. Look at the Jews, many of the well-knowns are part Jews, Barbara Walters, Julia Roberts.. Soon there will an Asian or part Asian being nominated for VP.... like Lieberman.

[jiang bao]

Bella, you'd be surprised how many westerners think Chinese and Japanese and Korean are the same.

Also, Ying Ying, I am not concerned that certain Americans don't like Asians (or Chinese), I am concerned about the degree of dislike relative to other races.

[ChuckC]

Agreed, a lot of westerners cannot tell the difference between various Asian sub-groups. But again, it's not specific to westerners. A lot of Asians can't tell the difference between different white groups, or Spanish-speaking cultures. I mean, really, the whole point of this post is to claim that Asians are far from the most hated people -- and that really, no one has it easy.

As far as most hated race, I don't hate Arabs, but the Arabs probably occupy the #1 coveted spot. America herself probably sits at #2, and America has an image of being primarily white. Asians are probably their own worst fan.

Most of the whites and blacks I know don't really care enough about Asians to invest hatred. They don't wake up first thing in the morning and think, "Damn Asians." Unless they're a biology major in college. They may not be our biggest fans, but they are not our biggest enemies.

Historically, I would make a casual observation that Asians could be the least-hated race. It just wasn't convenient or feasible to really get involved with Asians in any kind of a war; therefore, it wasn't really worthwhile to bother hating them. It was a lot easier to just hate your own people. If anyone killed a ton of Asians, it was usually Asians. The Japanese got themselves nuked by the USA, but they sort of asked for it, yes?

A general rule of history is that you're more likely to kill your own people first, followed by people next door -- but what's great about Asians is that they were rarely the people next door -- they were always the people "far to the east." Huge waste of time for the whites to even bother to hate us. They couldn't even get through Russia to say, "Hi, Asians, we hate you." If they wanted to sail over, it made more sense to just trade and pick up Asian women; certainly better than getting stomped. Africans probably didn't even know Asians existed. The Arabs were right next door but they were more worried about Crusaders and Jews, as well as rival islamic factions within. Besides, around that time China did a good job of sealing itself off from the rest of the west. If any race has been singled out for extermination by more than one culture, it is the semitic Jews. So Asians, particularly China, not too bad off historically. The Chinese are worse to their own people and terrtories than anyone else.

Hey, I can live with Asians not being the most favored race. But then again, who is?

[Ren Ying Ying]

Bella, you'd be surprised how many westerners think Chinese and Japanese and Korean are the same.

Also, Ying Ying, I am not concerned that certain Americans don't like Asians (or Chinese), I am concerned about the degree of dislike relative to other races.

I lay doubts on the way the article is pushing the issue and the severity that the article make the issue out to be. Firstly, it's a telephone poll--meaning people who answer probably has a pretty strong opinion. Secondly, as I mentioned before, most (white) americans probably don't want to be outright "racist" against blacks & jews. Because of the way history is taught, americans tend to be more sensitive towards those two groups.

[jiang bao]

Chuck, I am not suggesting nor do I think Asians are “hated.” The word I used is “dislike” as in negative perception. It’s a large jump from dislike to hatred. I also don’t think white people are any more racist than other races. White racism has the loudest ring in the US because they have been the dominant race and thus was in position to be racists. (I dunno if you and Ying Ying were just making general statements or if you guys were replying to something you think I said)

[Ren Ying Ying]

Chuck, I am not suggesting nor do I think Asians are “hated.” The word I used is “dislike” as in negative perception. It’s a large jump from dislike to hatred. I also don’t think white people are any more racist than other races. White racism has the loudest ring in the US because they have been the dominant race and thus was in position to be racists. (I dunno if you and Ying Ying were just making general statements or if you guys were replying to something you think I said)

I'm not sure about Chuck, but i was more putting out general ideas in reference to the article.

I think the way the article is written exaggerates the situation, or at least asian americans are not as singled out as the article makes it appear.

[xJadedx]

I think in my first response to this thread, I pointed out that the way the survey is conducted has the potential for a lot of confounds.

But people just wanted to focus on the sensationalism of the article then.