a flaw in the way people compare JY's martial arts

[person135]

i'll use an example to explain what I'm trying to say.
In Semi Devils and Demi Gods, Mu Rong Fu and Jiu Mo Zhi says in their opinions, the two most powerful martial arts they've ever seen are Yi Jing Jing and Six Meridian Swords (Liu Mai Shen Jian). As a result, skills like Tai Ji Quan are often overlooked.
A big emphasis on the word seen.
Many of the skills that come in later time periods such as Yi Tian Tu Long Ji are ones that people from earlier times, people like Mu Rong Fu, have never seen before. Lots of people say this skill is better than that because so and so said that skill is the best he's ever seen. But have you ever thought about it? That so and so has never seen skills that came after him, so how can you base arguments on that? Mu Rong Fu has never seen 9YingZJ before.

I've seen countless people back up their arguments like this, on both english and chinese threads.

[yittz]

YJJ and 6MSJ are highly regarded because of what we saw they do for the characters in TLBB. Who really cares what MRF says anyway?

[tape]

We've seen ZWJ use Taiji and he didn't really overwhelm people with it. It gave him a boost sure, but it clearly was not an out of this world martial art. It was unique and competitive yes, but I think we can see it's clearly not a super uber powerful art.

He's also very talented, so it's pretty safe to assume he took the martial arts to a respectable height, and it still wasn't OMG amazing like the 6 Meridian Swords were really. Once DY was able to use them, he won like every fight. And originally YJJ took a nobody scrub into a XF-like fighter in a ridiculously short period of time. Taiji did nothing of that sort, and people have considered it before.

[flamer]

Although Taiji is good but I think few would argue it's as good as 6MSJ or YJJ. Maybe ask around what would one rather learn in terms of pure power. It was a pretty valid comment to put 6MSJ and YJJ so high up.

[The Khan]

You get to shoot laser beams from your fingers with 6MSJ

nuff said

[person135]

ZWJ never really used Tai Ji that much after he defended Wu Dang. In addition, ZWJ has really powerful Kung Fu. He just doesn't know how to fight with it. Hence he did not win against the 3 Ming Cult people. He also doesn't really know its full powers and potential. A JY expert once said Tai Ji Fist is almost as good as XL18Z when used to its full potential.

Note: I never said 6MSJ wasn't a good skill. I just said some skills are underestimated. You saw how badly ZWJ beat the people who attacked Wu Dang.

[kyss of the sword]

actually ZWJ used taiji a lot of times, he had actually combined 0yang theories with QKDNY and taiji into one formless style under ZSF's guidance. he used taiji against the xuan ming elders at the end and when he fought against the du monks. taiji is comparable to HL18Z the same way ZBT's vacant fist were. star shifting skill, QKDNY and TAIJI QUAN should be of the same level. 6MDS was considered a high level skill because once you have mastered it, there a few if any who can compete with you. yiyinji is a high level inner power style with potentially no limits(sweeper monk). the better you understand Buddhism, the further you can go. taiji became one of the most famous skills after the condor trilogy so it isn't really overlooked.

[person135]

well no one has been shown to really master 6MSJ. And no one has really fought against it besides Mu Rong Fu, who really isn't that good.

9YangSJ is at least on par with Yi Jing Jing. ZWJ just doesn't have enough fighting experience that's all. If he actually practiced, he'd be at least equal to guo jing and yang guo.

[tape]

Um you say people make baseless assumptions and then you go ahead and just spout off whatever you believe as facts and want people to accept it....ok.

[CC]

I'm telling you man, Hu Family Sabre play was the best. Its just a pity that Hu Fei wasn't alive during DGSD or HSDS or he would have whooped Duan Yu and Zhang Wuji.

Xiao Feng only thought 6MSJ was really good but he did not have the chance to SEE Hu Family Sabre. If Hu Fei was there during Zhang Min's attack on Wudang Mountain, Zhang Wuji and his Taiji + Wooden Sword would have perished.

I believe that even The GOD OF SWORD, THE SWORD OF GOD, SWORD GOD Zhuo Bufan would be awed if only he SAW Hu Family Sabre. The underlings of Tian Shan Tong Lao might have judged that The GOD OF SWORD, THE SWORD OF GOD, SWORD GOD Zhuo Bufan's swordplay had reached the Peak of Perfection in Accuracy and Positioning but if they saw Hu Fei's Sabreplay, The GOD OF SWORD, THE SWORD OF GOD, SWORD GOD Zhuo Bufan would have probably appeared clumsy and crude as a butcher with a knife cutting up a dead pig.

[PJ]

CC is right. Ze mighty Hu Family Sabre would make even The God of Sword, The Sword of God, SWORD GOD Zhuo Bufan look out of touch with the real way of the art of chopping.

Even Ximen Chuixue and Yan 13 would have to bow down before ze mighty Hu Family Sabre, for it has reached something no other art can claim.

[pannonian]

CC is right. Ze mighty Hu Family Sabre would make even The God of Sword, The Sword of God, SWORD GOD Zhuo Bufan look out of touch with the real way of the art of chopping.

Even Ximen Chuixue and Yan 13 would have to bow down before ze mighty Hu Family Sabre, for it has reached something no other art can claim.

But Zhang Sanfeng woudl still break the Hu family sabre, if he desired to.

[tape]

But Zhang Sanfeng woudl still break the Hu family sabre, if he desired to.

Probably not.

[PJ]

The only real potential challenge to ze mighty Hu Family Sabre, would be Eight Trigram Sabre. Hu Fei once pondered to himself: "The Eight Trigram Sabre is really powerful. I wonder whether it is a match for my family's techniques?" The fact that Hu Fei does not know for sure whether the Eight Trigram Sabre is better than his family technique or not, makes it a potentially formidable contender to ze mighty Hu Family Sabre.

[K2Grey]

However Murong Fu knew Eight Trigram Sabre but he also chose to use Five Tigers Breaking the Gate and Six Unified Sabres as well when fighting Duan Yu. Therefore 5TBTG and 6US must be of comparable quality to 8TS or else MRF would not have used them. I dare say that these sabre techniques must be unrivalled in jianghu.

Furthermore DY used Six Meridian Divine Swords against MRF and was able to gain the advantage at the end. However Duan Yu had an ungodly internal energy advantage over MRF so that does not necessarily mean that 6MSJ is better than 8TS. In fact, the fact that DY and MRF fought for a long time with both gaining the advantage in times leads one to the obvious conclusion that since they were evenly matched, and DY's internal energy must be at least 5 times greater than that of MRF, that 8TS must be at least 5 times better than 6MSJ!

[CC]

However Murong Fu knew Eight Trigram Sabre but he also chose to use Five Tigers Breaking the Gate and Six Unified Sabres as well when fighting Duan Yu. Therefore 5TBTG and 6US must be of comparable quality to 8TS or else MRF would not have used them. I dare say that these sabre techniques must be unrivalled in jianghu.

Furthermore DY used Six Meridian Divine Swords against MRF and was able to gain the advantage at the end. However Duan Yu had an ungodly internal energy advantage over MRF so that does not necessarily mean that 6MSJ is better than 8TS. In fact, the fact that DY and MRF fought for a long time with both gaining the advantage in times leads one to the obvious conclusion that since they were evenly matched, and DY's internal energy must be at least 5 times greater than that of MRF, that 8TS must be at least 5 times better than 6MSJ!

Actually, MRF did not lose while he was using the 8 Trigram Sabre. It was only after his sabre broke (due to him having lower internal energy) and he was forced to use the Judge Pens that DY finally beat him.

So 8 Trigram sabre >5x 6MSJ! And by extrapolation, Hu Family Sabre >>>>>>>> 6MSJ!

I am telling ya, Hu Family Sabre is the best!

[PJ]

Another evidence that Eight Trigram Sabre = invincible is in the case of Zhang Wuji, he was getting his a$$ kicked by the Liangyi Swordplay. It was during his frustration that he realized he could put himself out of the disadvantage with the utilization of Eight Trigram theory. As soon as he employed steps from the Eight Trigram, he immediately put himself into an advantage over the 4 Liangyi sub-experts.

We all know that Liangyi Swordplay is one of the highest principles in Chinese martial arts philosophy, explicitly stated to be superior to the Great Reversal [Qiankun Danuoyi]. And yet, Liangyi theory is no match for the Eight Trigram theory, as demonstrated by Zhang Wuji. This places Eight Trigram at least TWO levels above the likes of Qiankun Danuoyi. And since Zhang Wuji preferred Qiankun Danuoyi to Taiji in HSDS (how many times did he use Taiji compared to Qiankun), we can safely assume Eight Trigram Sabre >> Taiji Sword.

Even the enlightened Tai-Chi Master Zhang Sanfeng would have trouble--no, he would be hopeless--overcoming the Eight Trigram Sabre even if his sophisticated heart desired so.

[ChronoReverse]

Which thus proves that Eight Trigram Sabre transcends even practical omnipotence. For Z3F could do whatever he so desires but is nonetheless helpless before Eight Trigram Sabre.

[missouri.slim]

Sounds like paper, rock and scissors. Paper is better than scissors because paper beats rock which beats scissors.

Besides, we know the true value is not in the scissors, but the person who uses the scissors, be they Eight Trigram Scissors or Hu Family Scissors, and that value is further dependent upon the situation in which the scissors are used.

Missouri.slim