Children are the biggest threat to our future and our freedom

[Candide]

In the western world, whenever the power that be, or some vocal feminazi-like groups want to impose their BS on the rest of us, they'd say "THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN!!! THIS IS FOR THEIR PROTECTION!!!"

The children are supposed to be our future. Yeah right.

I think children are the biggest threat to our future and in particular, our freedom.

Surely a tax-paying adult is worth a hell lot more to society than a little bugger who just eats, watches TV, skips homework, dozes off at school, takes a dump and sleeps all day?

What do you reckon?

[Guo Xiang]

In the western world, whenever the power that be, or some vocal feminazi-like groups want to impose their BS on the rest of us, they'd say "THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN!!! THIS IS FOR THEIR PROTECTION!!!"

The children are supposed to be our future. Yeah right.

I think children are the biggest threat to our future and in particular, our freedom.

Surely a tax-paying adult is worth a hell lot more to society than a little bugger who just eats, watches TV, skips homework, dozes off at school, takes a dump and sleeps all day?

What do you reckon?

So what do you suggest we do about the little buggers?

[patricia n]

we were all once one of those buggers, and some of us still are buggers. moms voice their concerns because most children do not have the capacity to think for themselves. or if they do, they may not make wise decisions which encompass longsightedness.

i'm not stating the fact that children's rights are more important than adults'. however, i understand why parents, particularly mothers who have to bear 9 months of suffering to produce those buggers, are so adamant about protecting their children. for the most part, parents are the only voice the children have.

you are right in the sense that children are the biggest threat to your freedom, but for the wrong reason. once you have kids, it's difficult to be selfish and think that life is all about you as your actions will affect a vulnerable child. if life is all about you and you are determined to make life only about you then i can see why you would think that children are a threat to your future. however, for others, successfully taking care of and protecting a powerless individual may be hard work but also a gratifying one.

the biggest threat to my freedom and future are lawyers and politicians, not children. i don't want children as i'm selfish and careless, but it's the government who's stealing my money without giving me anything in return whether i have kids or not.

i've digressed. oops. bottom line, your opinion isn't true for all. to some parents, their "investments" paid off. call it mutualism or in few cases, great cash return.

so, no, i don't agree with you.

[Candide]

So what do you suggest we do about the little buggers?

Bring back corporal punishment at school!

patricia, those helicopter parents are also a huge threat to our freedom, with their constant hysteria over their rug rats.

i'm not stating the fact that children's rights are more important than adults'.

You aren't, but in this world, they are. Even if the letters of the law don't specify it, the application of it, as well as people's general reactions in society, certainly implies it.

Right now in my city (I read this in an online column), a man is getting labelled a pedophile and reported to the police because some ignorant woman, fearing for her young niece of course, doesn't know that his making a Pedobear joke doesn't make him a pedophile, and nearly everyone (equally ignorant) is encouraging her, because there is a small chance, no matter how tiny, that a child could be better protected!

Right there, you can see that people are willing to throw away one of the core tenets of our freedom, "Innocent until proven guilty", just for the sake of protecting a child, based on the most ridiculous and flimsy "evidence". They have no problem with ruining a most likely innocent man for life.

[patricia n]

i still don't see how "children are the biggest threat to our future and our freedom." it's ignorant people who are the biggest threat. if it isn't children then those ignorant people will find other reasons to limit your freedom of speech and what not.

i wish there was some way to screen these fools to limit their rights...i still live in fear of sarah palin's hardcore supporters.

[jiang bao]

Watch Children of Men.

[Candide]

Watch Children of Men.

I did, and it proved my point! Firstly, it's totally unrealistic if you look at how people in our world are breeding like drunken horny rabbits. Secondly, even in a hypothetical world where somehow the entire population of the Earth are sterilized, some bastards still manage to somehow breed! Bloody rug rats everywhere!!!

[Cesare]

Kids are cruel selfish beasts. I know that well enough, as I happened to be an unpopular child...
I must admit I don't like them much.
I often travel by the same bus that takes the kids from surrounding villages to the school in nearest town and that repeated experience tells me all I need to know about children.

On the other hand - I've seen many annoying little brats transform into acceptable (or even very likeable) human beings - so I try not to put too much blame on the little buggers for being the way they are. Growing up is the only way out of it, and it requires time, proteins, vitamins and effort...:-)
They are the only future we have, really...
Being protective of them is probably a natural display of the whole self-preservation/preservation of the species thing, but the silly idolization of those little wicked things puzzles me too.

The true evil here are organized parents, though. Mothers for some reason (partly hormonal, partly cultural, I imagine) tend towards it a little more, but fathers often display similar tendency.
Organized parents love witch hunts - and they grossly underestimate their own kids, who might be little devils, but who are definitely a lot smarter than their stupid parents seem to think. If some parents spent as much time on their kids as they do on their pointless crusades, they wouldn't have to worry half as much.

[Eagle]

In western society the protection of kids rights is very important, maybe too important. So big that is incomprehensible to my mind. I can say I am lucky that so far my kids have stayed out of trouble.

A case I know, my good friend's daughter got in high school 2 years ago. She was the princess of the house, loved by everybody - she is beautiful, talented in music, dance, good athlete and also a very good student.

My friend found that her daughter was going out with a guy and the parents tried to stop it. The kid complained at school and the parents were advised by the school counselors that they could not restrain their 13 year old daughter going out and if they did, their daughter might be taken away and placed in a foster house. The parents fearing the kid might be taken away had to agree with the relationship. The 'funny' part was that the councilors informed the girl's parents that the guy their daughter was seeing was a guy with a history of troubles and kicked out of the school.

Fast forward, now 2 years later the girl is 15 years old and mother to a baby. The baby's father is nowhere to be seen.

What is heart-breaking here is that the outcome was expected and nothing could be done. If the parents tried to prevent the kid going out at night, the daughter would go to school to complain and the parents would be called to school and social workers would visit the house to speak to all members.

I am all confused by the system here. Apparently kids can do whatever they like even when it is not considered right and still the rules on their side. In this case, my confusion is that the counselor sees a naive 13 year old going out with a 16 year old trouble-maker and tells the parents that they cannot stop that relationship. I don't know where parents stand and where the system kicks in with regards to kids education and well-being. I could be wrong, but I believe if stronger actions were allowed and the kids not feeling encouraged by the system the outcome could have been different.

Could it be that the theory mentioned by a local Chinese radio station has some ground - that the kids rights issues feed a lot of people. Not only counselors, social workers, but also judges, lawyers, doctors, nurses, etc. and there's a lot of money involved.

I just wonder if this could be true...

[HuangYushi]

A case I know, my good friend's daughter got in high school 2 years ago. She was the princess of the house, loved by everybody - she is beautiful, talented in music, dance, good athlete and also a very good student.
(....etc, etc...)
If the parents tried to prevent the kid going out at night, the daughter would go to school to complain and the parents would be called to school and social workers would visit the house to speak to all members.

The problem began in the house, even before the girl got into trouble.
The parents allowed her to be the princess. And if the stereotypical definition, personality and image of a princess stands, then this girl could basically get away with a lot of things compared to a child who grew up with proper discipline/guidance.

I am all confused by the system here. Apparently kids can do whatever they like even when it is not considered right and still the rules on their side.

The girl used the system for her own wants. If she had proper discipline/guidance since young, she would have been able to understand her parents' concerns about her relationship; and not turn to the system for "help".

Could it be that the theory mentioned by a local Chinese radio station has some ground - that the kids rights issues feed a lot of people. Not only counselors, social workers, but also judges, lawyers, doctors, nurses, etc. and there's a lot of money involved.

I just wonder if this could be true...

It would be frightening if this was true....

[jiang bao]

The problem began in the house, even before the girl got into trouble.
The parents allowed her to be the princess. And if the stereotypical definition, personality and image of a princess stands, then this girl could basically get away with a lot of things compared to a child who grew up with proper discipline/guidance.

Indeed. Proper parenting should have begun from the beginning when the kid is old enough to walk. The problem, except in the case of kids with psychological problems, always started with the parents. Maybe they work too much; maybe they don't communicate; maybe they are bad role models; whatever. It's always the parents.

[darkcser]

I have an 18 month old son, and I can see discipline problems with him already. Whenever he doesn't get his way he screams and throws tantrums. I've heard that you're suppose to ignore them when they do that but both my wife and in-laws come running when this happens. It's to the point that when they leave to go to the bathroom or kitchen he cries even though I'm still in the room. Generally I pat him on the head, tell him it's OK, and prevent him from running into the bathroom or kitchen but he just balls his eyes out.

As you can probably expect he doesn't like me very much when there's more responsive people who comes running whenever he makes a peep. I'm also regarded as a poor father because I don't treat him as a little emperor. They operate on this policy where if he cries they need to give him what he wants. Honestly sometimes I feel guilty but at other times I feel justified since everyone else is just spoiling him. Don't know if I'm inflicting some sort of psychological trauma on him when I ignore his crying because he can't get what he wants. The other day I was drinking something, and he wanted it and started screaming. Now I had saki in a mug so I wasn't about to give it to him. He screamed and cried. My wife then started screaming at me, and saying what the hell was I thinking holding something he can see but can't have.

He's been going to daycare for the last 3 month or so, and he's not terribly well adjusted. He ended up biting most of the kids at daycare a couple of weeks ago. I don't see things improving if people always accede to his demands.

[xJadedx]

Indeed. Proper parenting should have begun from the beginning when the kid is old enough to walk. The problem, except in the case of kids with psychological problems, always started with the parents. Maybe they work too much; maybe they don't communicate; maybe they are bad role models; whatever. It's always the parents.

Actually, a lot of psychological problems some children face also start with the parents. For instance, majority of children diagnosed with anxiety disorders tend to have parents who are very anxiety-provoking and who create a very anxious environment for the child to be in. Note that these parents aren't necessarily "bad" parents, they do things because they care for their child. But they over-do it, and it actually creates more problems than it solves. Anyway, the point is - parenting is hard.

[jiang bao]

Actually, a lot of psychological problems some children face also start with the parents. For instance, majority of children diagnosed with anxiety disorders tend to have parents who are very anxiety-provoking and who create a very anxious environment for the child to be in. Note that these parents aren't necessarily "bad" parents, they do things because they care for their child. But they over-do it, and it actually creates more problems than it solves. Anyway, the point is - parenting is hard.

It was poorly worded on my part. What I meant to say is the innate psychological problems – e.g. disorders that didn't develop postnatally-- are the only problems that the parents definitely don’t have a hand in helping to create through their behavior.

[xJadedx]

It was poorly worded on my part. What I meant to say is the innate psychological problems – e.g. disorders that didn't develop postnatally-- are the only problems that the parents definitely don’t have a hand in helping to create through their behavior.

I see. But even for some of those, i.e. ADHD, there are a lot of genetic factors involved (which could be traced to the parents).

Anyway, I get your point though .

[yittz]

We should have a parenting thread, highlighting the do's and don't's. So much of future problems can be prevented with appropriate parenting strategies.

[xJadedx]

We should have a parenting thread, highlighting the do's and don't's. So much of future problems can be prevented with appropriate parenting strategies.

Different children require different strategies though. Plus the majority of the people here aren't even parents. You can speculate about the do's and don't's (trust me, I do a lot), but by the time you're actually a parent, things probably will be very different.

[HuangYushi]

... but by the time you're actually a parent, things probably will be very different.

True. On top of that, unless one has hardly any to no contact with relatives (especially grandparents and other elders), he/she would quickly realise that more often than not, "parenting" involves the entire extended family as well. Parenting issues are frequent occurrences at work for me.

[jiang bao]

In my opinion, it's best to separate your child from your parents when raising the child. The older generation has such a disconnect now with the younger people now.

It's hard enough to be a good parent, but when your own parents are involved and have their own style of "parenting," that makes it harder. It makes the kid question your authority and may develop resentment about having more than 2 authority figures (you and spouse).

[Eagle]

The problem began in the house, even before the girl got into trouble.
The parents allowed her to be the princess. And if the stereotypical definition, personality and image of a princess stands, then this girl could basically get away with a lot of things compared to a child who grew up with proper discipline/guidance.


The girl used the system for her own wants. If she had proper discipline/guidance since young, she would have been able to understand her parents' concerns about her relationship; and not turn to the system for "help".


It would be frightening if this was true....

Hi HuangYushi,

Have not spoken to you for a while, how are things with you?

You are right about the family point and I quite agree with you. But how do we interpret a system that allows a kid getting what they want even they should not? As per my understanding, the counselor gave the girl's parents the background of the boy. It appears to me that the counselor expected the consequences but advised the parents that they could not restrain or prevent their daughter to going out at night.

I don't expect a kid to know what is best for them at 13. My question is, why as parents you do not have the right forbid your 13 year old to go out at 11 pm with people that are not desirable? This is the part that I don't understand.