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Thread: 2009-2010 NBA Season

  1. #101
    Senior Member Ren Ying Ying's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Yeah...frankly, Lebron's supporting casts in Cleveland have not really been that good. You look at that team roster and you think they have a powerhouse, but most of that roster is either washed up (e.g. Shaq, Jamison) or unproven in pressure situations (Mo Williams). The Cavaliers are kind of like the Eastern Conference version of the Mavericks (and if things don't change soon, Lebron is going to get a reputation as being the Eastern Conference version of Dirk Nowitski).
    shaq is wash up, yes. but jamison is still in his good years. He's not exactly dominant per day, but he can certianly carry a team when needed (they just didn't use him correctly). Jamison was on the tail end of his career...but hardly "washed up" (like the wizards). But cleveland has size, length, quickness, shooters, defenders, depth or whatevers you needed. They don't lack talent but they just don't use it correctly. They run the offense around Lebron (which is fine because he is the cornerstone), but they don't run too many reliable sets outside of Lebron. They don't run that many plays for Jamison. They don't take enough advantage of Shaq's size in the post. But even then, it's fine because cleveland wasn't meant to be an offensive jauggernaut anyways. They were suppose to win their games by defense...which is really what boston broke down (some hot shooting from ray allen and wallace helped, too).

    Changing rosters may be necessary, but changing rosters does not mean for the better (unless you're trading pau gasol for kwame brown). It's pretty damn hard to find guys who are "proven" under pressure (hell, even gasol never won a playoff game in memphis). In any case, changes & "unproven in pressure" can only be looked upon in retrospect (unless it's THAT obvious).

    Quote Originally Posted by ken cheng
    Yeah, I know...but a lineup of Lebron, Baron Davis, Chris Kaman, and Blake Griffin...tell me it doesn't make your mouth water.

    Staples Center would officially become the most dangerous place to play basketball between a Lebron-led Clippers team and a Kobe-led Lakers team.
    not quite. blake griffin has yet to play an official NBA game. Baron Davis fades in and out (with questionable shot selection) and Kaman is good but not great (not a dominant post presence at all). And their head coach is...who? The current clippers don't offer anything better than cleveland can outside of being in a better city (but the fanbase may not be much better either).

    In contrast, chicago has a lot more to offer him in terms of talent. But rose is just as ball dominant as he is...so one of them will have to learn to play off the ball more.
    Last edited by Ren Ying Ying; 05-14-10 at 04:55 AM.

  2. #102
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Ying Ying View Post
    shaq is wash up, yes. but jamison is still in his good years. He's not exactly dominant per day, but he can certianly carry a team when needed (they just didn't use him correctly). Jamison was on the tail end of his career...but hardly "washed up" (like the wizards). It's not about roster talent for this series. Boston was just more disciplined and wanted it more...so they outplayed the Cavs (and some hot shooting helped, too).
    Lebron could use some more disciplined/hungry teammates. I just don't sense that from any of the Cavs (Lebron has the hunger, I think, but I'm not sure he's got the discipline; he's not obsessed with basketball the way that Kobe is and Jordan was).

    It's pretty damn hard to find guys who are "proven" under pressure (hell, even gasol never won a playoff game in memphis).
    Derek Fisher. The guy can't guard anyone worth a damn anymore, but he's *clutch* in big pressure situations. How many clutch shots has he hit for the Lakers in the playoffs now? He does for Kobe what guys like John Paxson and Steve Kerr used to do for MJ in Chicago. Lebron needs a guy like that.

    not quite. blake griffin has yet to play an official NBA game. Baron Davis fades in and out (with questionable shot selection) and Kaman is good but not great (not a dominant post presence at all). And their head coach is...who? The current clippers don't offer anything better than cleveland can outside of being in a better city (but the fanbase may not be much better either).
    I think the Clippers with Lebron would be a better team than the Cavs with Lebron, seriously. The Cavs seem less a team and more a motley collection of players. I suppose they're better as a unit than that band of jokers that Kobe lugged around from 2005-2007, but not by much.

    In contrast, chicago has a lot more to offer him in terms of talent. But rose is just as ball dominant as he is...so one of them will have to learn to play off the ball more.
    Lebron/Rose could be quite a duo. They'd need a better big man than they've got (Joakim Noah?) to really contend, though.

  3. #103
    Senior Member Ren Ying Ying's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Lebron could use some more disciplined/hungry teammates. I just don't sense that from any of the Cavs (Lebron has the hunger, I think, but I'm not sure he's got the discipline; he's not obsessed with basketball the way that Kobe is and Jordan was).
    That's all in retrospect. He didn't look any "hungrier" than they did or vice versa. But then, I wouldn't know because I've never met them nor talked to them

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken cheng
    Derek Fisher. The guy can't guard anyone worth a damn anymore, but he's *clutch* in big pressure situations. How many clutch shots has he hit for the Lakers in the playoffs now? He does for Kobe what guys like John Paxson and Steve Kerr used to do for MJ in Chicago. Lebron needs a guy like that.
    Odd thing is...outside of game 4, the cavs never lost a "close game". no amount of clutchness is going to help when you're down 20. No to mention the cavs have some of the best 3-pt shooters in the league. And the concept of "clutch" is retrospective...only after the shots are made. It's not as if Fisher has never failed to make those open 3-pointers. The same shot in the 2nd quater is worth the same amount of points as in the 4th.

    In any case, it still think it's their lack of defense that killed them (+hot boston shooting)...so it's pretty much a teamwide fail, from the coaches to lebron to his teammates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken cheng
    I think the Clippers with Lebron would be a better team than the Cavs with Lebron, seriously. The Cavs seem less a team and more a motley collection of players. I suppose they're better as a unit than that band of jokers that Kobe lugged around from 2005-2007, but not by much.
    well, even primetime kobe can't save a starting lineup featuring kwame brown, luke walton, and (god forbid) smush parker.

    the rest of the cavs team are not BAD players. obviously, they're not going to be as good of a team without lebron james, but they're not a bunch of scrubs either. seriously, the current clippers are not that much more talented than the cavs w/o lebron (griffin doesn't count because we've never even seen him play yet...).
    Last edited by Ren Ying Ying; 05-14-10 at 05:58 AM.

  4. #104
    Senior Member Bangs's Avatar
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    I can't see how a team who dominated two seasons not be good enough to win the championship. These guys can play ball, if not they wouldn't amass 60+ wins in a season. The real question lies within Lebron's ability to lead his team, you can say Lebron needs this guy and that guy but the real truth is Lebron needs to step up and will his team to victory during the big games just like the past greats. Its not the end for Lebron though it maybe for the Cavs if he decides to go elsewhere.

  5. #105
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bangs View Post
    I can't see how a team who dominated two seasons not be good enough to win the championship.
    Meet the Dallas Mavericks.

    They've been doing it for *years* now.

  6. #106
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    I've never seen Lebron being so passive in my life...with the exception of game 3, he was not the typical Lebron James...his near triple double numbers every night may suggest that he played well but they're a bit misleading because that's usually what he puts up. I watched 40+ cavs games this year, and he added a midrange shot and improved his three point shooting which were the only holes in his game. That made him pretty much unguardable..but his JS completely disappered vs the celtics.

    Credit Boston's D but lebron is one of those guys who can just keep taking it to the hole at will regardless of what the defense gives him...maybe im being cynical and crazy here, but a part of me kind of believes that he blew those games...for 4 of those 6 games (actually even the game 1 win take away the fourth) I was just sitting there waiting for Lebron to take over like he's done time and time again, but instead he kept passing...


    Lebron could use some more disciplined/hungry teammates. I just don't sense that from any of the Cavs (Lebron has the hunger, I think, but I'm not sure he's got the discipline; he's not obsessed with basketball the way that Kobe is and Jordan was).

    In the regular season the supporting cast for the cavs are actually one of the toughest bunch in the L. The play chest to chest hard nose D...their in the the top 3 in offensive and defensive efficency in the regular season. Despite not having as much big names as the other elite teams, their actually pretty deep and they have a great personal bond with one another and play a great unselfish team game...similar to the thunder..which is why they've been so successful the last two years. They disappered in this series...Mo and Jamison have had a history of being soft players...not sure what happened to the rest of them...

    I agree with the Kobe thing. Physically, you'll see a guy with Kobe's athletic ability enter the draft every year....but mentally Kobe's toughness,determination and work ethic are on another level compared to everyone else...the guy's an overachiever. He's just a nasty competitor who dedicates his life to basketball. IMO, Bron is a different class of athlete compared to Kobe, he outweighs him by 30 plus pounds, has a better one foot take off then even a prime kobe and yet he's just as fast...but Kobe's mental toughness and work ethic puts him and bron on a pretty close to equal playing field.
    Last edited by JoeLee; 05-14-10 at 02:22 PM.

  7. #107
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    In any case, it still think it's their lack of defense that killed them (+hot boston shooting)...so it's pretty much a teamwide fail, from the coaches to lebron to his teammates.

    Especially their lack of transition D...again I dont know what happened..they were one of the best tranistion d teams in the regular season, but they were getting out run by a team that was supposedly too old...

    Everybody was hyping up the Lebron guarding Rondo thing, but it dosen't matter whose guarding Rondo if he's in the open court.

  8. #108
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeLee View Post
    Especially their lack of transition D...again I dont know what happened..they were one of the best tranistion d teams in the regular season, but they were getting out run by a team that was supposedly too old...

    Everybody was hyping up the Lebron guarding Rondo thing, but it dosen't matter whose guarding Rondo if he's in the open court.
    The more it's analyzed, the more condemnatory the verdict seems on the Cavs: maybe they actually don't lack skill or talent. Maybe they lack heart and guts.

    That's even worse than lacking talent in some ways.

  9. #109
    Senior Member Ren Ying Ying's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeLee View Post

    In the regular season the supporting cast for the cavs are actually one of the toughest bunch in the L. The play chest to chest hard nose D...their in the the top 3 in offensive and defensive efficency in the regular season. Despite not having as much big names as the other elite teams, their actually pretty deep and they have a great personal bond with one another and play a great unselfish team game...similar to the thunder..which is why they've been so successful the last two years. They disappered in this series...Mo and Jamison have had a history of being soft players...not sure what happened to the rest of them...
    Jamison didn't come up as big as the cavs would've liked, but Mo williams doesn't deserve all the flak. Lest you forget, he almost single handedly won game 1 for the cavs and was helping to keep the cavs in the first half of game 6. Sure, he got burned by rondo for the entire series, but that's out of his ability (and it's hard not to get burned by rondo no matter who you are). In any case, williams didn't play out of his mind, but the cavs didn't lose because williams failed to show up (like orlando last year)

  10. #110
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Ying Ying View Post
    Sure, he got burned by rondo for the entire series, but that's out of his ability (and it's hard not to get burned by rondo no matter who you are).
    I'm having nightmares about what Rondo might do to D. Fish if the Lakers and Celtics meet in the Finals.

  11. #111
    Senior Member Ren Ying Ying's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I'm having nightmares about what Rondo might do to D. Fish if the Lakers and Celtics meet in the Finals.
    lol. sushi anyone? the same nightmares you had with westbrook, williams, and possibly will have with nash (and jameer nelson is no pushover)?
    Last edited by Ren Ying Ying; 05-14-10 at 03:41 PM.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Ying Ying View Post
    lol. sushi anyone? the same nightmares you had with westbrook, williams, and possibly will have with nash (and jameer nelson is no pushover)?
    Rondo might be even better than those guys.

  13. #113
    Senior Member Ren Ying Ying's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Rondo might be even better than those guys.
    nah, deron williams is definitely still better than rondo at this point in his career (he can beast to the paint, make pretty passes, and is a relatively good shooter). only problem is instead of having KG, ray allen and paul pierce to pass to, he has carlos boozer (& millsap). Rondo still has a streaky jump shot. He's great on the open court, but that's not bread and butter plays.

    steve nash lives on the other end of the spectrum. we'll have to see how that plays out next week.

    However, as great as a Lakers-Celtics rematch would be, I have faint hopes that the Celtics can sqeeze by the Magic.

  14. #114
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    Jamison didn't come up as big as the cavs would've liked, but Mo williams doesn't deserve all the flak. Lest you forget, he almost single handedly won game 1 for the cavs and was helping to keep the cavs in the first half of game 6. Sure, he got burned by rondo for the entire series, but that's out of his ability (and it's hard not to get burned by rondo no matter who you are). In any case, williams didn't play out of his mind, but the cavs didn't lose because williams failed to show up (like orlando last year)

    No..I don't put the blame completely on Williams, when the team wins the star gets most the credit and when the team loses he also deserves most of the flak...especially in the cavs case. Although Mo did show up in game one and pretty much sparked the W with his dunk..he was wildly inconsistent throughout the series, just like he was in the regular season. He's the type of guy who will go off for 27 pts in one game then average 11 for the next 3 or four. Last game he was great in the first half and disappeared in the second. When Mo plays well the cavs are a different team, look what they did to the Lakers on christmas... But the problem is that Mo's not a great defender so when he's not shooting well enough 2 stretch the floor, there's really not much point of having him out there as Lebron and West are more than capable of running the offense and handling the ball.

    Ya, I have the magic vs Lakers in the Finals now...but Rondo will be a B*tch to guard..Kobe will prob have 2 D him up...but that does cause some matchup problems with Allen vs Fisher...maybe a line up of artest,brown and bryant? or maybe sub odom for brown to go up against pierce? Regardless, LA's post game will make things hard for the celts smaller backcourt 2 deal with (if they make it that far)...


    Wonder how Bynum's knee going to hold up against suns run and gun?

  15. #115
    Senior Member Ren Ying Ying's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeLee View Post
    No..I don't put the blame completely on Williams, when the team wins the star gets most the credit and when the team loses he also deserves most of the flak...especially in the cavs case. Although Mo did show up in game one and pretty much sparked the W with his dunk..he was wildly inconsistent throughout the series, just like he was in the regular season. He's the type of guy who will go off for 27 pts in one game then average 11 for the next 3 or four. Last game he was great in the first half and disappeared in the second. When Mo plays well the cavs are a different team, look what they did to the Lakers on christmas... But the problem is that Mo's not a great defender so when he's not shooting well enough 2 stretch the floor, there's really not much point of having him out there as Lebron and West are more than capable of running the offense and handling the ball.
    of course.

    my point wasn't that mo williams (or any of the other cavs for that matter) had some fantastic playoff run. I was only pointing out that they played the same as he did in the regular season-- contributing to the cav's 60 win. And it pretty much goes for all the other cavs players. They didn't step up big but they didn't choke in the playoffs--as people like to claim that Lebron's teammates disappeared. Mo williams can actually do a lot of damage on the dribble penetration (as in the 1st half of game 6) as well as his hot shooting. Despite all his defensive woes individually, it still got the team 60 wins. The Cavs should have gotten used to making up for his weaknesses...the same way Lakers learned to deal with Derek Fisher's defensive woes.

    Of course, rondo was beasting and boston definitely played much better than you would except out of a 50+ win team (ray allen went "hot" at the right times, garnett looked young again, and even wallace made his 3's). But that's what the playoffs are: part skill, part matchups, and part luck.

    The funny thing is, Cleveland spend so much effort last year to counter the matchups in boston but got kicked by Orlando. Then they go off to aquire size to counter Orlando this year but got kicked by Boston.

  16. #116
    Member JoeLee's Avatar
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    Can't believe how good the Celtics are. I know they had a bunch of injury problems in the regular season..but still...i guess its just like rudy t says.....never underestimate the heart of a champion . I still hate them though, and its not over as Boston is a horrible home team (but again I'm basing this off the regular season which apparently doesn't mean shite if your the Celtics).

  17. #117
    Senior Member pemberly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeLee View Post
    Can't believe how good the Celtics are. I know they had a bunch of injury problems in the regular season..but still...i guess its just like rudy t says.....never underestimate the heart of a champion . I still hate them though, and its not over as Boston is a horrible home team (but again I'm basing this off the regular season which apparently doesn't mean shite if your the Celtics).
    why no love for boston? they were considered the underdogs in this series and are surprising everyone. that deserves some kudos!
    nytimes: Every hr you have 10 minutes where you’re not doing anything productive at work, & you can’t look at porn. So you make a comment & fulfill this desire to show yourself off as a smarty-pants.

  18. #118
    Senior Member Ren Ying Ying's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pemberly View Post
    why no love for boston? they were considered the underdogs in this series and are surprising everyone. that deserves some kudos!
    because....


    ......BOSTON SUX! mwahahahahaha!


    *runs away to yahoo to become a troll*

  19. #119
    Senior Member pemberly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Ying Ying View Post
    because....


    ......BOSTON SUX! mwahahahahaha!


    *runs away to yahoo to become a troll*
    so mean!
    nytimes: Every hr you have 10 minutes where you’re not doing anything productive at work, & you can’t look at porn. So you make a comment & fulfill this desire to show yourself off as a smarty-pants.

  20. #120
    Senior Member pemberly's Avatar
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    on a sidenote, have you guys heard about lebron jame's mom banging his teammates? ewwwww.
    nytimes: Every hr you have 10 minutes where you’re not doing anything productive at work, & you can’t look at porn. So you make a comment & fulfill this desire to show yourself off as a smarty-pants.

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