Sweepa Monk -vs- The Granddaddy of Formations

[PJ]

Sweepa Monk

-vs-

The 7 Heroes of Wudang (assume each at his peak) using the Zhenwu Formation, which equals the power of 64 First Class Fighters.

Who would win?

[augster123]

Zhang Sanfeng nods approvingly and strokes his long, white beard, laughing maniacally as the battered broom falls out of the hands of the dying Ol'Sweeps.

[PJ]

Zhang Sanfeng nods approvingly and strokes his long, white beard, laughing maniacally as the battered broom falls out of the hands of the dying Ol'Sweeps.

I can't picture him doing that...

[Ken Cheng]

I think that Cheung 3 Fung's formation can do this, but NOT if the Mo Dong 7 Heroes use it. Even the exponential increase of overall strength that the formation affords them might not be enough to make up the firepower gap between the Mo Dong Heroes and the Janitor Monk. On the other hand, if it's some combination of seven *Greats* from the CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY and *Elites* from DGSD (i.e. Kiu Fung-class or higher), the Janitor Monk will go down...HARD.

[shortsight]

Sweepa Monk

-vs-

The 7 Heroes of Wudang (assume each at his peak) using the Zhenwu Formation, which equals the power of 64 First Class Fighters.

Who would win?

Actually, should it be 64 or 128??

[PJ]

Actually, should it be 64 or 128??

64. It doubles its power with each additional member, so:

1 member = 1
2 = 2
3 = 4
4 = 8
5 = 16
6 = 32
7 = 64

[tape]

There's a passage that says so they never needed more than 2 brothers or something to handle adversity. This suggests that 2 brothers can use it and amplify their power, as it doesn't make sense for 2 brothers to only have the strength of 2 brothers using the formation. Maybe its 1+ (doubling) so 2 brothers equals 3 ?

[Dennis Chen]

*tap*
*tap*
*tap*
*tap*
*tap*
*tap*
*tap*

"A mi tuo fo."

*sweep*
*sweep*
*sweep*

[PJ]

There's a passage that says so they never needed more than 2 brothers or something to handle adversity. This suggests that 2 brothers can use it and amplify their power, as it doesn't make sense for 2 brothers to only have the strength of 2 brothers using the formation. Maybe its 1+ (doubling) so 2 brothers equals 3 ?

Hehe. There seems to be a special exception with 2 fighters. Jin Yong does say that 2 fighters > 2 powers, so that should be 3 powers. But he also says 3 fighters = 2x of 2 fighters, so that would make it 6 powers instead of 4 powers. But he says it's 4 powers. Anyway, I'll consider it a series with an exception at 2 & 3.

[Aventinus]

What kind of formation can 1 person do anyway?

Maybe it doubles starting with 1 person doulbing their power...2 people = 4, 3=8, 4=16 and so on...

[PJ]

What kind of formation can 1 person do anyway?

Maybe it doubles starting with 1 person doulbing their power...2 people = 4, 3=8, 4=16 and so on...

Nope, Jin Yong told us in the novel that 4 = 8, 5 = 16, 6 = 32, 7 = 64.

[tape]

Nope, Jin Yong told us in the novel that 4 = 8, 5 = 16, 6 = 32, 7 = 64.

Lets go with 1 4 6 8 16 32 64? It could be plausible that two using a formation gets a huge boost since they can now protect each other/synergize some attacks but the 3rd and 4th brother doesn't add that much until a 5th brother comes in which they now have enough people to cover footwork formations and seal an area airtight with inner strength and technique.

OR we could keep it simple and go with 1 2 4 8 16 32 64

[augster123]

A rough avg of a Wudang Hero (at peak) is around 15% (0.15 if u will) of ZWJ, a great.

64 x 0.15 = 9.6

so ol'Sweeps is dealing with around 9-10 Greats-level fighter all at the same time in this battle. should be more challenging than the XF+XYS+MRB+JMZ+MRF he encountered in the novel.

[tape]

The feeling I get is that no number of people you can tap to death can really hurt you if you don't want them to.

I wish they Xiao had bounced off Sweeper rather than hurt him, then we wouldn't have anything to debate about.

Is there any similar cases where someone who could get one hit KO'd from somebody, was able to actually hurt them at a later time ? I can't really any weak fighter who could get one hit KO'd ever even having the capability to hurt whoever could do it. The closest would probably be Pre-HIS Yang Guo, who one hit KO Ni moxing and co, but would most definitely be hurt by them if they were to land a hit somehow. But HIS is kind of special.

[PJ]

Is there any similar cases where someone who could get one hit KO'd from somebody, was able to actually hurt them at a later time ? I can't really any weak fighter who could get one hit KO'd ever even having the capability to hurt whoever could do it. The closest would probably be Pre-HIS Yang Guo, who one hit KO Ni moxing and co, but would most definitely be hurt by them if they were to land a hit somehow. But HIS is kind of special.

Keep in mind:

1. Sweeper Monk was fighting 2 bricks who didn't fight back.

2. Sweeper Monk caught Murong Bo by SURPRISE. Murong Bo was not on the alert, so he only defended. Had Murong been prepared to fight, he might not be so easy to KO.

I believe Xiao Feng was able to injure Sweeper Monk b/c Xiao Feng DID fight back. I doubt Sweeper Monk could KO the fighting Xiao Feng in one stance.

Anyway, to answer your question, consider that Xiao Feng at Juxian Zhuang could kill Reverend Xuanji in one stance. Earlier, Xuanji's attack had made Xiao Feng short of breath. I'm confident Xiao Feng cannot take Xuanju's attack lightly, such that if Xuanji's attack landed on Xiao Feng full force, Xiao would suffer tremendously.

[PJ]

A rough avg of a Wudang Hero (at peak) is around 15% (0.15 if u will) of ZWJ, a great.

64 x 0.15 = 9.6

It should be slightly lower than that, since Zhang Cuishan and Yu Daiyan are significantly weaker than the other heroes of Wudang. But it wouldn't skew it too far down.

[tape]

Keep in mind:

1. Sweeper Monk was fighting 2 bricks who didn't fight back.

2. Sweeper Monk caught Murong Bo by SURPRISE. Murong Bo was not on the alert, so he only defended. Had Murong been prepared to fight, he might not be so easy to KO.

I believe Xiao Feng was able to injure Sweeper Monk b/c Xiao Feng DID fight back. I doubt Sweeper Monk could KO the fighting Xiao Feng in one stance.

Anyway, to answer your question, consider that Xiao Feng at Juxian Zhuang could kill Reverend Xuanji in one stance. Earlier, Xuanji's attack had made Xiao Feng short of breath. I'm confident Xiao Feng cannot take Xuanju's attack lightly, such that if Xuanji's attack landed on Xiao Feng full force, Xiao would suffer tremendously.

Xuanji was also caught off guard, since he didn't think Xiao would suddenly launch a stance either. Kind of like the Sweeper example you just counter pointed.

[PJ]

Xuanji was also caught off guard, since he didn't think Xiao would suddenly launch a stance either. Kind of like the Sweeper example you just counter pointed.

Exactly. I believe Xiao Feng cannot kill Xuanji in one stance, and Sweeper Monk may not be able to execute DGSD Elites in one stance -- when their rivals are prepared.

[flamer]

I believe Xiao Feng was able to injure Sweeper Monk b/c Xiao Feng DID fight back. I doubt Sweeper Monk could KO the fighting Xiao Feng in one stance.

Also keep in mind that SM was tapping XYS to mock-death at the same time. Imagine the type of internal energy and internal energy manipulation involved in that.

[CC]

2. Sweeper Monk caught Murong Bo by SURPRISE. Murong Bo was not on the alert, so he only defended. Had Murong been prepared to fight, he might not be so easy to KO.

Not fair to say that MRB was caught by surprise. MRB was alerted _and_ had adopted his best defensive stance.