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Thread: Xuzhu vs Sweeper Monk - inner energy Question

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    Senior Member Ghaleon's Avatar
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    Default Xuzhu vs Sweeper Monk - inner energy Question

    I was just wondering if Xuzhu has more internal energy than the Sweeper Monk. Of if its the other way around. We can quantify Xuzhu's internal energy based on the number of years of energy he absorbed. But is it possible to quantify Sweeper Monk's internal energy? If we used the number of years as a measure for internal energy, how much (estimation) would Sweeper Monk have based on the description of his feats?
    Last edited by Ghaleon; 10-21-09 at 01:48 AM.

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    Senior Member forgot password's Avatar
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    Supermonk's energy is like 100 US dollar while xuzhu's energy is like 200 Renminbi, so although xuzhu has more money in units, his comparative purchasing power is much weaker than that of Supermonk. Setting up an energy field with a diameter of 3+ m that is capable of nullifying Jiumozhi's fiercest attacks is no cheap feat, xuzhu couldnt do that whereas Supermonk could, and with ease.

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    Senior Member Xiao Feng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forgot password View Post
    Supermonk's energy is like 100 US dollar while xuzhu's energy is like 200 Renminbi, so although xuzhu has more money in units, his comparative purchasing power is much weaker than that of Supermonk. Setting up an energy field with a diameter of 3+ m that is capable of nullifying Jiumozhi's fiercest attacks is no cheap feat, xuzhu couldnt do that whereas Supermonk could, and with ease.
    I'm not so sure about that.

    The Sweeper Monk can be said to have full access/control of his inner energy.

    The same can't be said of Xu Zhu, at that point in time. The fight at Shaolin against DCQ being a good example. By then he already had godly inner energy, but still took a long time to dispose of DCQ.

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    when attacked by xiaofeng, a match of jiumozhi, at the end of tlbb, xz had to block with a counter palm (or he dodged?) so its safe to say xz was not capable of setting up energy field even after tapping into the transferred xiaoyao energy to the fullest extent.

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    Senior Member Xiao Feng's Avatar
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    Was it mentioned that he already had full access to his energy or was there any specific event that showed as such?

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    iirc, before the fight in shaolin, xz spent a couple of months to practice xiaoyao martial arts, considering he was skilled enough to execute such a profound kungfu as the life and death talisman technique its safe to assume at the shaolin showdown he was at least able to use a major portion of the transferred energy, from that time to the battle at the yanmen pass another 3 or 4 months lapse away which gave xz more time to master xiaoyao kungfu's so im sure at the end of tlbb he was able to use his energy to the full extent.

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forgot password View Post
    iirc, before the fight in shaolin, xz spent a couple of months to practice xiaoyao martial arts
    A couple of months is a rather small window of time in terms of refining one's martial arts.
    Last edited by PJ; 10-21-09 at 09:27 AM.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    A couple of months is a rather small window of time in terms of refining one's martial arts.
    It's fiction after all...

    The major work of building up internal energy has already been done by others... who've "bequeathed" him with their internal energy. He only needed to meditate on the techniques to learn how to use that internal energy.

    I recall that he mastered two techniques in his first entry into that cave of martial arts inscriptions... in something like 2-4 hours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    A couple of months is a rather small window of time in terms of refining one's martial arts.
    The same could be said of Zhang Wuji

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahoxan View Post
    It's fiction after all...

    The major work of building up internal energy has already been done by others... who've "bequeathed" him with their internal energy. He only needed to meditate on the techniques to learn how to use that internal energy.

    I recall that he mastered two techniques in his first entry into that cave of martial arts inscriptions... in something like 2-4 hours.
    I'd say he was beginning to become more adept at using them, but still far from tapping into the full potential of his advanced Xiaoyao Pai martial arts.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banh Mi View Post
    The same could be said of Zhang Wuji
    I don't disagree that Wuji didn't have much practice, though I think he had more than a couple of months.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forgot password View Post
    when attacked by xiaofeng, a match of jiumozhi, at the end of tlbb, xz had to block with a counter palm (or he dodged?) so its safe to say xz was not capable of setting up energy field even after tapping into the transferred xiaoyao energy to the fullest extent.
    It was a completely unexpected attack, so they were totally unprepared. During the fight with Jiumozhi (his first real fight), Xuzhu already had a layer of internal energy surrounding his body & protecting him; this was the energy that fended off Jiumozhi's fiercest attacks.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    I don't disagree that Wuji didn't have much practice, though I think he had more than a couple of months.
    Wuji learnt Taiji on the go, no time to practice. Then there's his signature skill, which he learnt in a matter of hours, what the creator couldn't reach in his life time.

    I think those with high internal energy have a much easier learning curve than normal people.

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    I thought Zhang Wuji spent a couple of months on Mt. Wudang to refine his Taiji learning. Did that take place, or am I imagining it?
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    I thought Zhang Wuji spent a couple of months on Mt. Wudang to refine his Taiji learning. Did that take place, or am I imagining it?
    Oh? I must have misread then. I thought when Zhao Min came to shaolin, Wuji learned Taiji on the fly to fend them off. My memory is hazy on that. My bad.

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    During the sword duel with [Right Emissary of the Brightness] Fan Yao, Wuji's self commentary mentioned that he had spent the previous several months getting lessons in Tai-Chi & swordplay from Zhang San Fen.

    Quote Originally Posted by HSDS excerpt from Chapter 26
    Ku Toutuo swept the sword and stabbed diagonally down. Zhang Wuji had seen him teaching sword technique to Zhao Min, so he knew this man had a superb swordsmanship. At once he focused his attention to use the Taiji Sword he had learned for the past several months on Mount Wudang. He saw that the opponent’s sword moved sometimes fast sometimes slow, with the blade seemingly everywhere; but Zhang Wuji was always able to block or divert the attack. Ku Toutuo withdrew immediately and re-attacked with new stances; yet not a single one of them was able to penetrate Zhang Wuji’s defense.

    Zhang Wuji silently praised him, “If I fought this man half a year ago, I certainly would not be his match in swordsmanship. Compared to that ‘ba bi shen jian’ [Eight-armed Divine Sword] Fang Dongbai this Ku Toutuo is a notch better.” He started to feel fondness toward him and decided not to score victory too conspicuously.

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    Senior Member Xiao Feng's Avatar
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    I'm with PJ on this.

    Firstly, we have to analyse the character. Xu Zhu is extremely passive and peace loving. Everytime he learnt or practiced martial arts was because he needed to save something or someone. Doesn't strike me as someone who would spend a lot of time practising his martial arts for the sake of it.

    Secondly, dude just got married to the princess of Xi Xia, his dream lover. There must have been many sleepless nights... Also, I think there would have been a lot of formality he needed to attend to due to the marriage.

    Of course, once you have a great internal powerbase, learning high level arts and improving is easy. But, in Xu Zhu's case, I don't think he paid much attention to it at all during that period.

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    Senior Member Xiao Feng's Avatar
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    Looks like my assumptions are wrong;

    Taken from Temujin's translation of the last chapter of DGSD;
    Nonetheless, the Hi-Tiok (XU ZHU) of today wasn't the same as the one from the past anymore, he had been given pure martial arts lessons from both Thian San Tong Lo (Tian San Tong Lao) and Li Djiu-Sui (Li Qiu Shi), he had also enhanced himself with all the martial arts instruction from the cravings on the wall of Leng-Tjiu-Kiong. To measure how high his martial arts level at this moment was like saying that he's incomparable*** and he was able to perform as he pleased in any type of situation.

    *** I didn't check this against the Chinese version, I hope I'm using the right word by saying 'incomparable' but the Indonesian translated version said his martial arts basically has reached a level in which he's now... peerless, matchless, without any comparison
    So, it looks like Xu Zhu DID practice his martial arts and improved significantly.

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    My interpretation of the original text differs slightly:

    这时虚竹既得天山童姥的真传,又尽窥灵鹫宫石壁上武学的秘奥,武功之高,实已到了随心所欲、无往而不利的地 步;

    Heir to Tianshan Tonglao's martial arts, Xuzhu also gained full insight into the writings on the stones of Lingjiu Palace. His martial arts has reached such a high level, he can accomplish any task as his heart desires, and cannot be put to a disadvantage.

    It doesn't say that he practiced much or not.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    An analogy of Sweeper Monk/Xuzhu may be Zhang Sanfeng/Zhang Wuji. Both Zhang's reached the apex of kung fu in their era, the difference is that Zhang Sanfeng, due to his old age, decreased stamina, and refinement, uses his internal energy in a very sophisticated way; whereas Zhang Wuji has more energy to expend, but cannot quite do the magical things Zhang Sanfeng does (such as annihilating a Xuanming Elder in one stance by simply putting a hand on his shoulder). I would say the same thing applies to Sweeper/Xuzhu. Sweeper Monk is much more refined, while Xuzhu may have similar martial arts, but will not achieve such great mastery until decades later.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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