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ULTIMATE Gundam Zeta thread
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Thread: ULTIMATE Gundam Zeta thread

  1. #1
    Senior Member Ghaleon's Avatar
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    Default ULTIMATE Gundam Zeta thread



    Hi Ken,

    I created a Gundam Zeta thread for us I'm going to start Zeta and then post up my initial impressions. And then dive into your highly informative Gundam essays (which i'll be referencing as i go through Zeta).

    Ken's Collection of Mini-Essays:

    Of ZETA GUNDAM's fifty episodes, Amuro appears in approximately ten of them and actually sees mobile suit combat in about six of those episodes. During ZETA, perhaps to emphasize that he isn't the main character this time around, he does not pilot a Gundam-class mobile suit, but uses (initially) an AEUG RMS-099 Rick Dias type and later, an Earth-atmosphere only variation of the Rick Dias designated MSK-008 Dijeh. It was strange seeing Amuro piloting mobile suits other than a Gundam, especially since the Rick Dias and the Dijeh are mobile suits that have more Zeon-like designs than Federation-type designs.

    Amuro is initially reluctant to return to MS piloting in ZETA (he developed a case of space phobia, among other problems), but it didn't take him long to get back into the groove after he overcame his initial anxiety. His battle instincts never left him, and after he got his confidence going again, he was actually better than he was in the original GUNDAM (because of the experience he has by the time of ZETA).

    Tomino has made much of the idea that although Camille and Camille's own successor, Judau (Double Zeta's pilot) are more powerful Newtypes than Amuro, neither one of them is likely to defeat Amuro in a fight because they lack his combat talents. Camille and Judau are two extremely gifted Newtypes, but neither one is an especially gifted warrior. Camille and Judau, despite their great Newtype abilities, often get batted around by their enemies in ZETA and DOUBLE ZETA before pulling out a win in the end thanks to the superiority of their MS and their Newtype powers. Amuro was different: not only did he have formidable Newtype abilities and the Gundam, but he was truly a gifted warrior. Amuro fights much more intelligently than Camille and Judau ever do. If Camille and Judau did not have Newtype powers, they probably wouldn't be very good pilots. Amuro, on the other hand, would have been an awesome ace even without Newtype abilities. Although Amuro's Newtype abilities are less than Camille and Judau's (and the gap isn't that big), his talent, skill, and experience more than make up for it. During ZETA, Camille is often awed by Amuro's fighting abilities (and gets annoyed when people compare him to Amuro, even when it's to praise him).

    He uses a Rick Dias at first and later, gets a personal mobile suit called the Dijeh. These are fairly ugly-looking, un-Gundam-like mobile suits that have a strong Zeon design influence, but I think they're cool for some variety. They just don't look like very Amuro-like mecha.

    So fans always wondered: what *was* Amuro doing during the year of DOUBLE ZETA.

    A few years ago, somebody in Japan put together a short CGI film about the DOUBLE ZETA era. A group of kids in a space shuttle were being threatened by a squad of Neo Zeon mobile suits. They looked doomed until a mobile suit that resembled Zeta Gundam streaked onto the scene and systematically eliminated the Zeon assault team.

    The new mobile suit was an upgrade on the original Zeta Gundam called the Zeta-Plus. After rescuing the kids, the pilot of the Zeta-Plus came out of the cockpit to see if the children were all right.

    Although he is never called by name or shown clearly, the silhouette of the pilot was clearly that of Amuro, and the shield of the Zeta-Plus had the same personal logo that we would see on the Nu Gundam's shield in CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK.

    So you make your own conclusions.

    The thing is: Camille is using the much more advanced, much more powerful, much faster Zeta Gundam against Amuro's "primitive" RX-78 Gundam, and Amuro *still* holds his own. You get the idea...

    This is just a fantasy scenario from the video game, by the way. By the time that Zeta Gundam was deployed, the RX-78 had been destroyed for more than seven years already. The original Gundam was the most powerful mobile suit of its time, but in the era of ZETA, it would have been badly outclassed by the new generation MS.

    But if Amuro were at the RX-78's controls, he might very well still pull out a win against the more advanced mecha...just because Amuro was that awesome.

    I think GUNDAM has endured among its longtime devotees because of the deeper themes that Tomino introduced in the original series. After the fascination with the mecha has faded, you're still left with the ideas from the story, and how they can be applied in the real world. Like THE BUND, GUNDAM explores the darker side of human nature: nobody is innocent, and nobody is completely good. At the same time, nobody is completely evil either. In GUNDAM, even the villains often seem more like misguided idealists rather than actually evil (especially Char). There are purely evil characters such as Giren Zabi, Kishiria Zabi, Jamitov Haiman (founder/leader of the Titans), and Bosque Om (Jamitov's right-hand man), but many of the villains are kind of ambiguous: they seem to have ideals as well, although they're twisted ideals accomplished through amoral or immoral means.

    And like THE BUND, even our heroes sometimes show moments of pettiness and selfishness. They're only human, after all.

    For my fanfic, DOUBLE ZETA would have an importance level of 5. The final episode, however, might have an importance of 7.

    However, the background from GUNDAM, ZETA, and CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK would be up to 8, 9, and 10. CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK is especially important in setting up the character of Hathaway Noah, who in my fanfic is Minerva Zabi's love interest. The story of how Hathaway and Minerva meet and how they fall in love is deeply entrenched in the subplot of Hathaway Noah in CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK. When you get to CCA, pay attention to this character. He becomes one of the five most important characters in my fanfic.

    CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK occurs over the course of a few days in March, U.C. 0093. My fanfic takes place between U.C. 0097 and U.C. 0105.

    Amuro's appearance in my fanfic is a flashback only (it occurs in U.C. 0092...a year before the events of CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK). That was the day when a young Col. Alexander Miguel attacked the Quebec Space Colony, killing thousands of Federation citizens and leaving a ten-year old little girl named Jolie Minh an orphan. Jolie would have died that day too if not for the timely intervention of Captain Amuro Ray and his elite Lond Bell task force.

    So Amuro's very brief appearance in my fanfic actually occurs five years before the main story occurs. It's a flashback seen from Jolie's point of view.

    Similarly, Char Aznable also makes a brief cameo at the very, very (literally) beginning of my fanfic in the year U.C. 0089, when the Archduchy of Zeon is under heavy assault by the AEUG/Federation alliance as seen in the last episode of DOUBLE ZETA. I reveal what was NOT revealed in DOUBLE ZETA: what happened to Duchess Minerva. In DOUBLE ZETA, the AEUG/Federation authorities only found a body double of the Duchess; the real Duchess was never found.

    Well, I *found* her.

    It turns out that Char reappeared after a year of being MIA at the end of ZETA and his first task was to rescue Duchess Minerva and take her to a place of safety, where she could grow to womanhood and begin her own adventures in a few years.

    Amuro was going easy on Gurney at first because Amuro is a pretty humane guy who doesn't like to kill. But Gurney made the mistake of murdering one of Amuro's subordinates in cold-blood.

    Needless to say, that really, really pissed Amuro off.

    So Amuro just wasted Gurney's entire squad before wasting Gurney himself.

    Poor Gurney: he had such potential, but he just HAD to go and piss off Amuro Ray when Amuro was in the cockpit of the Nu Gundam. You just knew Gurney was screwed then...

    Amuro fights better when he's completely pissed off. It's like Kiu Fung when he's drunk or Yeung Gor in super-emo Sad Palms mode. Every time the Zeon do something to really piss off Amuro (like kill one of his allies/friends), they are in for a world of pain. I mean: Amuro in normal, calm mode is already a huge threat. When he gets pissed, though, he's pretty much unstoppable.

    I pity the fool who pisses Amuro off when he's in the cockpit of a mobile suit.
    Last edited by Ghaleon; 10-28-09 at 01:06 AM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Ghaleon's Avatar
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    Okay I finished watching the first 3 episodes and I have to say I'm very impressed. I love the atmosphere of the show. It has that spacey type of feeling you get from epic space operas. and its also dark and gritty Even after watching 3 episodes I can tell that its way better than Seed. Seed feels like a toned-down Gundam Lite in comparison. One cool effect I like is the helmets. I lovee how they give a blue tint when the pilot puts it on. I also liked the Black Gundams but i know that they'll probably be replaced by the next Gundam model (the white one on the dvd cover that i'm guessing Kamille will pilot later on).

    Ok i think i absorbed most of the material so far. But few questions remain. So the Red Comet is really Char Aznable right? He's that blonde haired dude (Quattro?) who sensed Kamille's presence thinking that he may be Amuro in episode 1? Is the AIEUG related to the Zeons somehow? They seem to be enemies with the Earth Federation. Also, it seems lke Titans are some special army within the Earth Federation and they are the ones who seems like villains.

    That's the thing about the mecha too: in the original GUNDAM, it was pretty clear which mecha were on which side just by looking at them. The Federation mobile suits all resembled Gundam or GM, while the Zeon mobile suits were all derived from the Zaku. By the time of ZETA, the lines are more blurred. There was a great deal of technology swapping between the two sides, and many Federation MS began to incorporate Zeon technology and vice-versa.
    Yeah after watching Seed i got a good idea of the Earth-based Gundam designs v.s. the Coordinators/Zeon-based designs. The latter look kind of plain looking (reddish color for some of them) but the former are the iconic white gundam designs. But after watching the first 3 eps of Zeta, I noticed that this is no longer the case. I see the Earth Federation has some Zeon-like mecha's when that chick (forget her name) fought with Char in epsiode 3 and was wondering if they lost to the real Red Comet.

    So with this technology interchanging, it seems like the lines are blurred. I'm guessing this is a plot design? Maybe the point is that we're heading into murky blurry territory with shades of grey morals? Earth is becoming more Zeon-like? If all that is true, i'm really liking the themes of Zeta Gundam. It's basically "Dark Gundam" or the Bund of Gundams. Does the design of the "Black Gundams" signify this?

    All right. After you get the original trilogy, however, *rewatch* ZETA. There are a number of things in ZETA that you're going to be murky on if you watch it without watching GUNDAM first. You know who Amuro Ray is already, but you don't know the history of the following characters: Char Aznable, Bright Noah, Sayla Mass, Mirai Yashima, Kai Shiden, Hayato Kobayashi, Frau Bau, Katsu Kobayashi, and Haro. These are important characters from the original GUNDAM who carry over into ZETA GUNDAM. When they appear during the series, it's good to know their histories.

    There are also many references during ZETA to the One Year War. The One Year War was the conflicted depicted in GUNDAM. By the time of ZETA, the One Year War is seven years in the past.
    I'm probably going to need your help keeping track of those characters as there seems to be lots of names. Does Zeta have a big cast? You're right, i'm missing lot of backstory of those characters you listed. But i do have to admit, it's kind of fun just diving into the Gundam universe head-on... there's this mysterious factor and the fun of familiarizing yourself with this exotic and unknown universe Plus I'm a one-quarter Gundam virgin since I finished Seed haha.

    So the One Year War is between Earth and Zeon? I'm guessing Zeon gets destroyed or something after the original trilogy? I'm guessing that AIEUG is the remnants of Zeon (or are they not related)?

    ZETA is the darkest, although the second GUNDAM movie in the trilogy isn't far behind. In fact, because the second movie distilled the most poignant and intense moments from the middle part of the original GUNDAM TV series, it feels even more intense than ZETA at times. The sub-title of MOBILE SUIT GUNDAM II is THE TRAGIC WARRIOR SAGA, and it lives up to its title. From the opening battle to the final credits, people die, die, and die in GUNDAM II. Kill 'Em All Tomino was on a rampage in GUNDAM II.
    That is right up my alley! I'm hoping watching Zeta Gundam will be another Bund-like experience. I can't stress enough how much I love dark and gritty series with shades of grey morality. To quote the back of the DVD box: "In Zeta Gundam, we see the future world of Universial Century through a dark mirror."

    I'll be looking forward to the second part of the original trilogy when I get my hands on it. So the original TV series doesn't contain the dark element of the original trilogy (or does it contain it)?
    Last edited by Ghaleon; 10-24-09 at 11:33 PM.

  3. #3
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghaleon View Post
    Okay I finished watching the first 3 episodes and I have to say I'm very impressed. I love the atmosphere of the show. It has that spacey type of feeling you get from epic space operas. and its also dark and gritty Even after watching 3 episodes I can tell that its way better than Seed. Seed feels like a toned-down Gundam Lite in comparison. One cool effect I like is the helmets. I lovee how they give a blue tint when the pilot puts it on. I also liked the Black Gundams but i know that they'll probably be replaced by the next Gundam model (the white one on the dvd cover that i'm guessing Kamille will pilot later on).
    The "black Gundams" are the three prototypes of the RX-178 Gundam MK-II...the successor model to the original RX-78 Gundam destroyed at the end of the One Year War. The Earth Federation Forces designed the Gundam MK-IIs for the Titans to use in their war against AEUG.

    Gundam MK-II was designed by Federation MS engineer Dr. Franklin Vidan (Camille's dad). Unlike the original RX-78, however, which was clearly superior to other mobile suits of its time, the Gundam MK-II is only slightly better than the regular frontline combat mobile suits used by the Titans and AEUG. For example, instead of Gundarium, Gundam MK-II's armor is composed of the standard titanium used by most mass-production combat mobile suits. It doesn't have the heads-and-shoulders superiority over other MS of its era that RX-78 had back in its day.

    Of the three Gundam MK-IIs developed by the Federation, one will be destroyed and the other two hijacked by AEUG. The AEUG cannibalizes the parts from the two remaining MK-II units and paint the resulting unit white (to make it more closely resemble the old Gundam and not so much the Titans' colors) and assign it to Camille Vidan, who uses it until the Zeta Gundam (which Camille himself designed) is completed around Episode 20. So the Gundam MK-II is Camille's mobile suit until Episode 20, after which he switches over to the Zeta Gundam. The Gundam MK-II is then transferred to Lieutenant Emma Sheen.

    Ok i think i absorbed most of the material so far. But few questions remain. So the Red Comet is really Char Aznable right? He's that blonde haired dude (Quattro?) who sensed Kamille's presence thinking that he may be Amuro in episode 1?
    Yep. That's him. GUNDAM's most iconic character. He was the nominal villain of the original GUNDAM (although really, he was more the tragic anti-hero), and he'll be the villain again in CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK, but in ZETA, he takes on the role of hero. He's probably the second most important character in ZETA after Camille.

    There's a lot of tension when Char meets Amuro again in ZETA. Wish you'd watched the original series/movie so you can fully understand the dynamic in their relationship. These guys really hated each other in the original series/movie, so it's a big deal in ZETA when they set aside their differences and conflicts from the past to work together towards a common cause. Seeing them work together is kind of like seeing Hung 7 Gung and Au Yeung Fung work together.

    Is the AIEUG related to the Zeons somehow? They seem to be enemies with the Earth Federation. Also, it seems lke Titans are some special army within the Earth Federation and they are the ones who seems like villains.
    Here's how it goes: at the end of the One Year War, the Earth Federation Forces defeated the Archduchy of Zeon Forces at Side 3. The Zeon military was mostly destroyed, but what did survive of the Zeon fled from the Earth Sphere (i.e. Earth, the moon, and the orbiting space colonies) to the Asteroid Belt under the command of Admiral Makajara Karn, one of the highest ranking surviving Zeon officers. Admiral Karn had primary responsibility for the care of the newborn Duchess Minerva Zabi, the last survivor of the Zabi Royal Family. The plan was to rebuild Zeon's strength in the Asteroid Belt and when the right time came (seven years later), the Zeon would return to the Earth Sphere to avenge their defeat and finish their campaign to conquer the Earth Sphere.

    Meanwhile, the Federation, after having nearly been destroyed by the One Year War, became extremely hostile towards all Spacenoid-liberation ideas and movements. The Federation did not want to see another Archduchy of Zeon arise. Therefore, in U.C. 0083, four years after the end of the One Year War, the Federation established a special, elite corps called Titans, whose mission was to stamp out all Zeon and/or pro-Spacenoid movements.

    What the Federation did not know, however, was that the man they picked to lead the Titans, Jamitov Haiman, was once a Zeon nobleman/military officer who somehow gained power in the Federation after the One Year War ended (Zeon's central military database was destroyed at the end of the One Year War, so the personnel records of all Zeon military personnel during the One Year War was lost). Jamitov Haiman had no particular political preferences. He didn't care about Earthnoid vs. Spacenoid or Oldtypes vs. Newtypes or Federation vs. Zeon. Jamitov just liked POWER, and as the leader of the Titans, he had plenty of it. In the past, the Zeon gave him power and he used it to brutalize the people of the Federation. Now, the Federation gives him power, and he uses it to brutalize the people of the space colonies. It doesn't matter to Jamitov as long as he has power. His main enforcer is Bosque Om, the field commander of the Titans, who is simply a thug.

    The Earth Federation, ever corrupt and clueless, give the Titans a great deal of autonomy, and the Titans abuse their power quickly. To put down anti-Federation movements, the Titans are willing to use toxic gas and bioweapons to poison entire space colonies, killing millions of innocent people. The most notorious incident was the G3 (lethal nerve toxin) gas attack on the space colony Sweetwater at Side 1 (known as the 30 Bunch Incident) in U.C. 0085.

    With the 30 Bunch Incident, the Spacenoids knew that they needed to resist the Titans. A group of ex-Federation and ex-Zeon soldiers (and many young new recruits who were just children during the One Year War) rallied around the leadership of a pro-Spacenoid Federation senator named Blex Forra to start an organization known as the Anti-Earth Union Government (AEUG). AEUG's objective was not to destroy the Earth Federation: many of its members were ex-Federation soldiers and diplomats, but to thwart the Titans and restore more moderate leadership to the Federation. AEUG's members included One Year War veterans from the Federation and Zeon, so ironically, many people who fought against each other bitterly during the One Year War suddenly found themselves allies in the war against the Titans (which explains why Amuro and Char are suddenly on the same side in ZETA after having spent all of GUNDAM trying to kill each other). Many of the former White Base crew from GUNDAM (i.e. Amuro, Bright Noah, Hayato Kobayashi, Kai Shiden) are AEUG operatives during ZETA, as is their former enemy Char.

    Char himself returned to the Earth Sphere in U.C. 0084. He was dispatched by Admiral Karn to gather intelligence on what was happening in the Federation. However, Char got deeply involved with AEUG after returning to the Earth Sphere, and decided to operate as Captain Quattro Bagina full time (although Zeon operatives did visit him from time to time to see what information he had gathered).

    The Zeon (now calling themselves Axis Neo Zeon) return to the Earth Sphere late in ZETA as the war between AEUG and Titans has reached a fever pitch. The Neo Zeon want to play the two sides of the Federation against each other, then finish off the weakened victor (which is why the Neo Zeon interfere and help/hinder both sides late in ZETA). The Axis Neo Zeon are nominally led by eight-year old Duchess Minerva Zabi, but the *real* holder of power is her regent, Haman Karn, the twenty year old daughter of Admiral Makajara Karn (who passed away in U.C. 0086).

    I see the Earth Federation has some Zeon-like mecha's when that chick (forget her name) fought with Char in epsiode 3 and was wondering if they lost to the real Red Comet.
    Yep. The Federation commandeered *a lot* of Zeon technology after the One Year War. Consequently, many of the Federation's post-One Year War mobile suits have Zeon design features (especially the units assigned to the Titans).

    So with this technology interchanging, it seems like the lines are blurred. I'm guessing this is a plot design? Maybe the point is that we're heading into murky blurry territory with shades of grey morals? Earth is becoming more Zeon-like?
    Yep. ZETA turns our conventions from GUNDAM on their head. Through the Titans, the Federation is doing the same thing to the space colonists in ZETA that the Zeon did in the original GUNDAM. During the original GUNDAM, the Federation was merely corrupt and clueless, but it was still basically benign. Now, because of what the Zeon did during the One Year War, the Federation shows its own vicious side through the Titans, and the Titans are easily as bad as the Zeon were.

    For the Federation heroes of the One Year War, seeing the Federation become like this is infuriating. They did not fight so hard and make so many sacrifices for the Federation to see it turn into another regime like Zeon. Consequently, all of our Federation heroes from the original series join AEUG in ZETA.

    If all that is true, i'm really liking the themes of Zeta Gundam. It's basically "Dark Gundam" or the Bund of Gundams. Does the design of the "Black Gundams" signify this?
    Yes. Remember that the original RX-78 Gundam was like a shining white knight. It looked noble and heroic because during the One Year War, the Federation still had many soldiers who were noble and heroic, so the Gundam was painted in heroic colors.

    Seven years later, the Federation has grown dark and corrupt, so the symbol of the Federation's strength, Gundam, has also gone dark...hence, the black Gundams.

    But when AEUG captures the Gundam MK-II, they promptly paint it white...like the original Gundam.

    Does Zeta have a big cast?
    Yes. Seventy percent of the characters in ZETA are new, but thirty percent are returning characters from the original GUNDAM. It's like the transition from LOCH to ROCH again. *Lots* of new characters in ROCH, but many are returning/continuing characters from LOCH. Same idea.

    So the One Year War is between Earth and Zeon? I'm guessing Zeon gets destroyed or something after the original trilogy? I'm guessing that AIEUG is the remnants of Zeon (or are they not related)?
    The Earth Federation defeats the Archduchy of Zeon at the end of the One Year War, but the Zeon are not totally destroyed. The last heir of the Zabis (Minerva) survived, and what remained of the Zeon forces fled to the Asteroid Belt, where they would slowly rebuild their strength over the next seven years...developing new war machines and technology and recruiting a new army.

    AEUG consists of Federation and Zeon veterans from the One Year War who have joined forces to destroy the Titans and protect the Spacenoids from Federation oppression. Many of AEUG's members are also youthful new recruits with no prior combat experience (i.e. Camille).

    That is right up my alley! I'm hoping watching Zeta Gundam will be another Bund-like experience. I can't stress enough how much I love dark and gritty series with shades of grey morality. To quote the back of the DVD box: "In Zeta Gundam, we see the future world of Universial Century through a dark mirror."
    That's ZETA in a nutshell.

    I'll be looking forward to the second part of the original trilogy when I get my hands on it. So the original TV series doesn't contain the dark element of the original trilogy (or does it contain it)?
    The original GUNDAM movie trilogy (particularly movie II) is dark, and ZETA is darker. The original GUNDAM TV series was dark for its time, but it's more diluted than the movies because the TV show still had to make concessions to being a children's action/adventure robot series to sell it. The thing about the movies is that they eliminate these concessions and thus, distill the darkest parts of the original GUNDAM in a manner that works very well with ZETA.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Ghaleon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    The "black Gundams" are the three prototypes of the RX-178 Gundam MK-II...the successor model to the original RX-78 Gundam destroyed at the end of the One Year War. The Earth Federation Forces designed the Gundam MK-IIs for the Titans to use in their war against AEUG.
    I like the look of it. It sets the tone for the series with its dark look.



    On the DVD cover I see a dark gundam on the background. That's the black gundam right? If that's so, i like the cover of the DVDs. Is Zeta the only series that has black gundams? and why, oh why, do they paint them white? It'll be so bada$$ if only the Zeta Gundam was white and the other MK-II's were black. For one, it'll Black Gundams signifies the dark nature of the series. And secondly, its really refreshing seeing Gundam units that aren't white.



    Gundam MK-II was designed by Federation MS engineer Dr. Franklin Vidan (Camille's dad).
    I can't believe they killed him off this early in the series

    Unlike the original RX-78, however, which was clearly superior to other mobile suits of its time, the Gundam MK-II is only slightly better than the regular frontline combat mobile suits used by the Titans and AEUG. For example, instead of Gundarium, Gundam MK-II's armor is composed of the standard titanium used by most mass-production combat mobile suits. It doesn't have the heads-and-shoulders superiority over other MS of its era that RX-78 had back in its day.
    Ah i see, but is it still better than the original RX-78? I'm guessing the white gundam on the cover will be the best Gundam in the series.

    Of the three Gundam MK-IIs developed by the Federation, one will be destroyed and the other two hijacked by AEUG. The AEUG cannibalizes the parts from the two remaining MK-II units and paint the resulting unit white (to make it more closely resemble the old Gundam and not so much the Titans' colors) and assign it to Camille Vidan, who uses it until the Zeta Gundam (which Camille himself designed) is completed around Episode 20. So the Gundam MK-II is Camille's mobile suit until Episode 20, after which he switches over to the Zeta Gundam. The Gundam MK-II is then transferred to Lieutenant Emma Sheen.
    Damn, too bad they paint the others white. I just finished the first 5 eps and i see that they are beginning to paint them white. If they paint them white, why'd do use a black gundam in the background on the dvd cover art? I was hoping we'll have at least one black gundam throughout the series to emphasize the dark nature of the anime.

    Yep. That's him. GUNDAM's most iconic character. He was the nominal villain of the original GUNDAM (although really, he was more the tragic anti-hero), and he'll be the villain again in CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK, but in ZETA, he takes on the role of hero. He's probably the second most important character in ZETA after Camille.
    Yeah, this masked dude seems to show up in lot of Gundam series. I guess the original is Char Aznable.

    There's a lot of tension when Char meets Amuro again in ZETA. Wish you'd watched the original series/movie so you can fully understand the dynamic in their relationship. These guys really hated each other in the original series/movie, so it's a big deal in ZETA when they set aside their differences and conflicts from the past to work together towards a common cause. Seeing them work together is kind of like seeing Hung 7 Gung and Au Yeung Fung work together.
    I've scanned through more eps in the DVD set for the original series and they are still horrendous. Some scenes the subs are OK, maybe for like 30% of the scenes, but the other 70% it is all gibberish. They translated Zeon (or what i thought should be Zeon) as "Self Protected"

    With the 30 Bunch Incident, the Spacenoids knew that they needed to resist the Titans. A group of ex-Federation and ex-Zeon soldiers (and many young new recruits who were just children during the One Year War) rallied around the leadership of a pro-Spacenoid Federation senator named Blex Forra to start an organization known as the Anti-Earth Union Government (AEUG). AEUG's objective was not to destroy the Earth Federation: many of its members were ex-Federation soldiers and diplomats, but to thwart the Titans and restore more moderate leadership to the Federation. AEUG's members included One Year War veterans from the Federation and Zeon, so ironically, many people who fought against each other bitterly during the One Year War suddenly found themselves allies in the war against the Titans (which explains why Amuro and Char are suddenly on the same side in ZETA after having spent all of GUNDAM trying to kill each other). Many of the former White Base crew from GUNDAM (i.e. Amuro, Bright Noah, Hayato Kobayashi, Kai Shiden) are AEUG operatives during ZETA, as is their former enemy Char.
    So all the humans living in the space colony's are known as Spacenoids? That seems to be lot of backstory for Zeta. So by the end of Gundam original trilogy, the viewers know all the stuff you mentioned? AEUG was explained at the end of original trilogy or are they explained slowly throughout Zeta? Yeah with all the different factions we get to see the conflict from many different angles. Things do seem a lot more murky and complex.

    Yep. The Federation commandeered *a lot* of Zeon technology after the One Year War. Consequently, many of the Federation's post-One Year War mobile suits have Zeon design features (especially the units assigned to the Titans).
    Did they show the Earth Fed stealing Zeon technology at the end of original trilogy?

    Yep. ZETA turns our conventions from GUNDAM on their head.
    I guess i'd appreciate this more if i watched the original series/trilogy but at least i kind of get the general drift from all the things i absorbed in all your gundam posts. I can definitely tell that in Zeta the Gundam universe seems to be upside-down. From their descriptions on the back of the set, it seems like Tomino wanted to create a dark mirror universe of Gundam in Zeta. Is that a right way to put it? Villains become heroes, heroes become villains.

    Yes. Remember that the original RX-78 Gundam was shining white knight. It looked noble and heroic because during the One Year War, the Federation still had many soldiers who were noble and heroic, so the Gundam was painted in heroic colors.

    Seven years later, the Federation has grown dark and corrupt, so the symbol of the Federation's strength, Gundam, has also gone dark...hence, the black Gundams.

    But when AEUG captures the Gundam MK-II, they promptly paint it white...like the original Gundam.
    That's why i'm hoping we'll see more of the Black Gundams. I like the contrast on the dvd cover with the white gundam on the foreground and the black gundam in the background. It kind of symbolizes the shades of grey thing that u mentioned. I just finished episode 5 with start of paintings of the gundams, so there's no more Black Gundams?

    Yes. Seventy percent of the characters in ZETA are new, but thirty percent are returning characters from the original GUNDAM. It's like the transition from LOCH to ROCH again. *Lots* of new characters in ROCH, but many are returning/continuing characters from LOCH. Same idea.
    Great, at least i don't have to familiarize myself with too much backstory of the characters.

    The Earth Federation defeats the Archduchy of Zeon at the end of the One Year War, but the Zeon are not totally destroyed. The last heir of the Zabis (Minerva) survived, and what remained of the Zeon forces fled to the Asteroid Belt, where they would slowly rebuild their strength over the next seven years...developing new war machines and technology and recruiting a new army.
    Great, thanks for info. I was wondering where they were.

    AEUG consists of Federation and Zeon veterans from the One Year War who have joined forces to destroy the Titans and protect the Spacenoids from Federation protection. Many of AEUG's members are also youthful new recruits with no prior combat experience (i.e. Camille).
    So they explained AEUG's mission in the original trilogy/series?

    That's ZETA in a nutshell.
    After 5 eps, I can't believe they killed off Kamille's parents.

    The original GUNDAM movie trilogy (particularly movie II) is dark, and ZETA is darker. The original GUNDAM TV series was dark for its time, but it's more diluted than the movies because the TV show still had to make concessions to being a children's action/adventure robot series to sell it. The thing about the movies is that they eliminate these concessions and thus, distill the darkest parts of the original GUNDAM in a manner that works very well with ZETA.
    After browsing through some eps in the original series to check the subs, i notice that the animation isn't that good. Everything looks kind of bright. Its like they used a bright palette. But in Zeta, the animation is very good and i can see some of the gritty atmosphere from the colors they used. How is the animation quality between the original trilogy and Zeta?
    Last edited by Ghaleon; 10-25-09 at 04:32 PM.

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    Senior Member Ghaleon's Avatar
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    Default Gundam Dynasty Warriors 2 PS3 Game

    It never happened in the anime (though it would have been cool). In this video game...
    You know what, you're making me BLOW lot of money haha. Guess what? All this Gundam talk (and the link u showed me) made me blow 400 bucks today
    Yes. I picked up a PS3 and the Gundam Dynasty Warriors 2 video game.

    I bought the system today JUST for Gundam Dynasty Warriors 2 (and the upcoming Super Robot Wars game). The huge selling point that made me go crazy over this game was that the game's story covers all the events from Mobile Suit Gundam through Zeta to Char's Counterattack There's also 62 playable mecha's from Gundam, Zeta Gundam, Double Zeta, Char's Counterattack, Wing and Seed. You can also choose from a big list of pilots including Char Aznable, Kamille, Amuro, and the pilots from Wing and Seed. Plus each of those pilots are rated in each of the battle categories. How COOOOL is that???!

    I think you might like this game. There's a heavy emphasis on the UC timeline Gundam series. You get to play out all the events from original trilogy all the way to Char's Counterattack. I'll post some brief comments about the game as I get into it more. But its going to be fun going through all the anime series/movies and then being able to play those events on the ps3.,

    The game also seems to receive glowing reviews from Japan (since Japan is Gundam-crazy) while mediocre reviews from North America. I think the reception of this game in north america shows that americans have no love for the Gundam franchise

    Last edited by Ghaleon; 10-25-09 at 05:35 PM.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghaleon View Post

    On the DVD cover I see a dark gundam on the background. That's the black gundam right? If that's so, i like the cover of the DVDs. Is Zeta the only series that has black gundams? and why, oh why, do they paint them white? It'll be so bada$$ if only the Zeta Gundam was white and the other MK-II's were black. For one, it'll Black Gundams signifies the dark nature of the series. And secondly, its really refreshing seeing Gundam units that aren't white.
    All protagonist Gundam units are white. It's a tradition started by the RX-78 that persists to this day.

    The massive black Gundam you see in the background is the MRX-009 Psycho Gundam, a transformable mobile armor unit built by the Titans' Murusame Newtype Research Institute. It's a massive, monstrous engine of terror with a complex background.

    Towards the end of the One Year War, the Archduchy of Zeon began fielding units known as mobile armors (MA) in an attempt to counter the Gundam, which had proven superior to all Zeon mobile suits. Mobile armors tended to be bulkier and heavier armored than mobile suits (anywhere from three to five times the mass of a standard mobile suit), had much heavier firepower, and were often equipped with I-Fields for deflecting beam weapon strikes. Some mobile armors were outfitted especially for use by Newtype pilots and were armed with telekinetically-operated weapons systems called Psychom bits or funnels (depending on the shape of the weapons units). Prominent mobile armors deployed by the Zeon late in the One Year War included the MA-08 Byg Zam (used by Prince Dozle Zabi, Minerva's father, to decimate a huge part of the Federation's attack fleet at the Zeon asteroid fortress Solomon), the MAN-08 Elmeth (Lalah Sun's mobile armor, which was the first to use Psychom weapons and was probably the most dangerous foe faced by 2Lt. Amuro Ray and the RX-78 Gundam during the One Year War), and the MSN-02 Zeong (the last Zeon mobile armor of the One Year War era that Char Aznable used for his final duel with Amuro Ray during the One Year War; the Zeong was destroyed by the Gundam, but also destroyed the Gundam in turn).

    The Titans, of course, were very interested in the Zeons' mobile armor technology. As the Titans were an Earth Federation Forces' organization, of course, their mobile armor development projects were naturally going to be applied to a Gundam test bed. During the Gryps Conflict (i.e. ZETA GUNDAM), both the Federation and the Zeon were developing Artificial Newtype Biosoldiers (i.e. Newtype warriors "custom-made" for combat, developed using a combination of cloning technologies, drugs, and special biorhythmic devices). One of the most prominent of these was a teenaged girl code-named Four Murusame (her real name is never revealed), the fourth Artificial Newtype (and the first to be successfully deployed in combat) created by the Murusame Newtype Research Institute. Four was assigned to a mobile armor designated MRX-009 Psycho Gundam, which was based on the technology of the Zeons' MA-08 Elmeth and MSN-02 Zeong mobile armors as well as the RX-78 Gundam.

    The Psycho Gundam was painted black. If there were such a thing as Gundam reborn as a monstrous demon, it would be the Psycho Gundam.

    I can't believe they killed him off this early in the series
    He (and his wife Hilda, Camille's mother) really didn't have much more of a role after that first story arc. They were created to die as to better set up Camille's tragic background.

    Death is a way of life in the world of GUNDAM.


    Ah i see, but is it still better than the original RX-78? I'm guessing the white gundam on the cover will be the best Gundam in the series
    That's the Zeta Gundam, which will debut in Episode 21 of the series as Camille's signature mecha. It is indeed the best mobile suit in AEUG's arsenal until the Double Zeta Gundam is rolled out in the next series.

    Even in the ZETA era, I'd say RX-78 Gundam would still be superior to the regular production model MS used by the Titans and the AEUG (i.e. machines such as the RMS-106 Hizack and the RGM-79R GM-II), but RX-78 would probably be outclassed by such mobile suits as RMS-099 Rick Dias or RMS-108 Marasai.

    Damn, too bad they paint the others white. I just finished the first 5 eps and i see that they are beginning to paint them white. If they paint them white, why'd do use a black gundam in the background on the dvd cover art? I was hoping we'll have at least one black gundam throughout the series to emphasize the dark nature of the anime.
    MRX-009 Psycho Gundam.

    Yeah, this masked dude seems to show up in lot of Gundam series. I guess the original is Char Aznable.
    The best they've ever been able to do is to copy Char.

    But none of the imitations have ever come close to the *real* Char.

    I've scanned through more eps in the DVD set for the original series and they are still horrendous. Some scenes the subs are OK, maybe for like 30% of the scenes, but the other 70% it is all gibberish. They translated Zeon (or what i thought should be Zeon) as "Self Protected"
    As a Cantonese speaker, I think I know exactly what happened.

    Those translators blow chunks.

    So all the humans living in the space colony's are known as Spacenoids?
    That's right.


    That seems to be lot of backstory for Zeta. So by the end of Gundam original trilogy, the viewers know all the stuff you mentioned? AEUG was explained at the end of original trilogy or are they explained slowly throughout Zeta?
    At the end of the original 1979 TV series, and even at the corresponding end of the three movie compilations in 1982, nobody knew that there would ever be any sequels to GUNDAM. As late as 1983, it was assumed that the original TV series and the reanimated movies were the only GUNDAM that would ever be made (little did they know).

    However, the ending of the GUNDAM movies did lay down a few threads that would be used in ZETA:

    1. Char Aznable was shown as having survived the One Year War. In the original TV series, it's ambiguous as to whether or not Char survived. The movies make it clear that Char *did* survive. Without this, ZETA could not happen the way it did.

    2. Duchess Minerva Zabi survived and the remaining Zeon Forces escaped from the Earth Sphere. That means that despite the Zeons' defeat at the end of GUNDAM, they would some day return.

    3. After the final battle of the One Year War, Amuro Ray jettisoned the top half of the remains of the wrecked original RX-78 Gundam to access the escape vehicle hidden within Gundam's innards. The jettisoned top half of Gundam was (and this was revealed only later in the manga stories) recovered by the Archduchy of Zeon Forces and taken by Char, who used the data to help develop AEUG's mobile suits.

    However, none of this was in place in 1979 or 1982 when the GUNDAM TV series and movies wrapped up. Tomino developed the whole idea of continuing the GUNDAM saga with the AEUG, the Titans, and the Neo Zeon in 1984 as he began drafting the story of ZETA GUNDAM. I think most viewers of ZETA GUNDAM in 1985 were a bit confused at first to see the Earth Federation suddenly at war with itself, with a brutal wing called Titans and a more heroic wing called AEUG.

    Yeah with all the different factions we get to see the conflict from many different angles. Things do seem a lot more murky and complex.
    Here are the factions in a nutshell:

    Earth Federation Forces: Still as corrupt and clueless as in the original series/movies, but the regular Federation Forces have slid almost into irrelevance as the Titans have ascended to power.

    Titans: The Earth Federation Forces' elite anti-Zeon force. The Titans were organized by the Federal Forces in U.C. 0084 to hunt down and wipe out the Zeon and any Zeon-sympathizers, but quickly became a gang of brutal thugs. As an elite unit, they get the best technology that the Federation has (while the regular forces still have to scrape by using outmoded GMs). Ironically, some of the Titans' elite are ex-Zeon personnel out to take advantage of the situation for personal gain.

    AEUG (Anti-Earth Union Government): Founded and led by Earth Federation Senator Blex Forra specifically for opposing the Titans. Their membership consists of both former Federation and Zeon soldiers who are sympathetic to the Spacenoid cause or simply hate the Titans. AEUG uses a blend of Federation and Zeon technology (as do the Titans). The Zeon technological influence comes from Captain Quattro Bagina (Char) and his subordinates (many of whom were Zeon soldiers under Char's command during the One Year War). The Federation technological influence (which dominates AEUG; it's more Federation-oriented than Zeon-oriented overall in technology) comes from those non-corrupt Federation officials who oppose the Titans. Not everyone in the Earth Federation is sympathetic towards the Titans, and those who feel strongly enough about it join or support AEUG.

    Karaba: AEUG's Earth-based division, led by former RX-75 Guntank pilot Hayato Kobayashi. The Karaba later recruit Amuro Ray to be the commander of their mobile suit forces.

    Axis Neo Zeon: The Archduchy of Zeon Forces reborn...with a new army sporting the latest MS technology (much more advanced than either the AEUG or Titans have). Their nominal sovereign is eight-year old Duchess Minerva Zabi, but the real power is in the hands of Minerva's twenty-year old regent, Haman Karn...an ambitious young woman whose goal is to conquer the Earth Sphere in the name of Axis Neo Zeon. In DOUBLE ZETA, she comes very close to achieving this goal.


    Did they show the Earth Fed stealing Zeon technology at the end of original trilogy?
    Not in the original TV series or movies, but this was later shown to have happened in the manga books and collector bibles.

    I guess i'd appreciate this more if i watched the original series/trilogy but at least i kind of get the general drift from all the things i absorbed in all your gundam posts. I can definitely tell that in Zeta the Gundam universe seems to be upside-down. From their descriptions on the back of the set, it seems like Tomino wanted to create a dark mirror universe of Gundam in Zeta. Is that a right way to put it? Villains become heroes, heroes become villains.
    Yep, but it's more complicated than even that, because in many cases (as it is with Amuro, Bright, and the rest of the old White Base gang), the heroes remain heroes, but the WORLD they live in has changed around them...and so, while remaining true to their characters, they also change to meet the realities of this new and more complex world. Things are not as clear cut as they were during the One Year War (and they were never really that clear cut even back then).

    That's why i'm hoping we'll see more of the Black Gundams. I like the contrast on the dvd cover with the white gundam on the foreground and the black gundam in the background. It kind of symbolizes the shades of grey thing that u mentioned. I just finished episode 5 with start of paintings of the gundams, so there's no more Black Gundams?
    No more black Gundam MK-IIs, but the *Psycho Gundam* should more than satisfy your fetish for black Gundams.


    So they explained AEUG's mission in the original trilogy/series?
    AEUG's mission is established in ZETA itself. In the original GUNDAM, AEUG had not yet even been conceived, but I think the roots that Tomino laid down in GUNDAM facilitated his creation of AEUG for the ZETA storyline. Even in the original GUNDAM, when the Federation represented the "good guys," the Federation was frequently depicted as corrupt and incompetent. Tomino expanded upon this idea in ZETA.

    After 5 eps, I can't believe they killed off Kamille's parents.
    Not much else they could do with them, so they were killed off to give Camille his "Bruce Wayne" moment.

    After browsing through some eps in the original series to check the subs, i notice that the animation isn't that good. Everything looks kind of bright. Its like they used a bright palette. But in Zeta, the animation is very good and i can see some of the gritty atmosphere from the colors they used. How is the animation quality between the original trilogy and Zeta?
    Not nearly as disparate. Between the 1979 TV series and ZETA, there is a painfully obvious difference in animation quality. It's almost hard to believe the two series are part of the same franchise. The three GUNDAM movies, though generally depicting many of the exact same scenes as the 1979 TV series, used fresh, superior animation that does not look embarrassing next to ZETA's. Don't underestimate the difference in quality that three years in the evolution of animation techniques and a much, much bigger budget can make.

    The years 1980-1984 are considered a revolutionary period in the development of animation technique in anime. A quantum leap in quality was attained during this period, particularly in 1984 after the MACROSS: DO YOU REMEMBER LOVE movie set a new high bar for everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghaleon View Post
    You know what, you're making me BLOW lot of money haha. Guess what? All this Gundam talk (and the link u showed me) made me blow 400 bucks today
    Yes. I picked up a PS3 and the Gundam Dynasty Warriors 2 video game.

    I bought the system today JUST for Gundam Dynasty Warriors 2 (and the upcoming Super Robot Wars game). The huge selling point that made me go crazy over this game was that the game's story covers all the events from Mobile Suit Gundam through Zeta to Char's Counterattack There's also 62 playable mecha's from Gundam, Zeta Gundam, Double Zeta, Char's Counterattack, Wing and Seed. You can also choose from a big list of pilots including Char Aznable, Kamille, Amuro, and the pilots from Wing and Seed. Plus each of those pilots are rated in each of the battle categories. How COOOOL is that???!
    Very cool. If only I owned a PS3...

    Unfortunately for you, GUNDAM fandom is not as inexpensive as BUND fandom. BUND fandom can easily be fully satisfied for less than $100. GUNDAM fandom can potentially cost you *thousands*.

    As my friends like to joke: "drugs would be cheaper."

    I think you might like this game. There's a heavy emphasis on the UC timeline Gundam series. You get to play out all the events from original trilogy all the way to Char's Counterattack. I'll post some brief comments about the game as I get into it more. But its going to be fun going through all the anime series/movies and then being able to play those events on the ps3.,
    If I ever get a PS3, I'll get this.

    I'm still using a PS2 that I got back in 2002. Just haven't felt like investing hundreds into a new game system.

    The game also seems to receive glowing reviews from Japan (since Japan is Gundam-crazy) while mediocre reviews from North America. I think the reception of this game in north america shows that americans have no love for the Gundam franchise
    Yeah...GUNDAM just never really caught on in the U.S....especially old school GUNDAM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Ghaleon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    All protagonist Gundam units are white. It's a tradition started by the RX-78 that persists to this day.

    The massive black Gundam you see in the background is the MRX-009 Psycho Gundam, a transformable mobile armor unit built the Titans' Murusame Newtype Research Institute. It's a massive, monstrous engine of terror with a complex background.
    Ahhh... The Psycho Gundam. Yeah i saw that in the ps3 game. The MK-unit II's they had were painted white in the game so i was so disappointed until i saw this black gundam from Zeta called "Psycho Gundam" in the lineup. I was like, "damn, what is this???" and then my excitement meter rose up haha.

    Towards the end of the One Year War, the Archduchy of Zeon began fielding units known as mobile armors (MA) in an attempt to counter the Gundam, which had proven superior to all Zeon mobile suits. Mobile armors tended to be bulkier and heavier armored than mobile suits (anywhere from three to five times the mass of a standard mobile suit), had much heavier firepower, and were often equipped with I-Fields for deflecting beam weapon strikes. Some mobile armors were outfitted especially for use by Newtype pilots and were armed with telekinetically-operated weapons systems called Psychom bits or funnels (depending on the shape of the weapons units). Prominent mobile armors deployed by the Zeon late in the One Year War included the MA-08 Byg Zam (used by Prince Dozle Zabi, Minerva's father, to decimate a huge part of the Federation's attack fleet at the Zeon asteroid fortress Solomon), the MAN-08 Elmeth (Lalah Sun's mobile armor, which was the first to use Psychom weapons and was probably the most dangerous foe faced by 2Lt. Amuro Ray and the RX-78 Gundam during the One Year War), and the MSN-02 Zeong (the last Zeon mobile armor of the One Year War era that Char Aznable used for his final duel with Amuro Ray during the One Year War; the Zeong was destroyed by the Gundam, but also destroyed the Gundam in turn).
    After reading your descriptive post, I have to say that the Real Robot genre is freaking awesome. Quick Q - no other mecha was equipped with the psycho telepathic enhancement in the original trilogy? Is it safe to say that those MA's with the psycho enhancement were the most advanced technology in the original trilogy?

    The Titans, of course, were very interested in the Zeons' mobile armor technology. As the Titans were an Earth Federation Forces' organization, of course, their mobile armor development projects were naturally going to be applied to a Gundam test bed. During the Gryps Conflict (i.e. ZETA GUNDAM), both the Federation and the Zeon were developing Artificial Newtype Biosoldiers (i.e. Newtype warriors "custom-made" for combat, developed using a combination of cloning technologies, drugs, and special biorhythmic devices). One of the most prominent of these was a teenaged girl code-named Four Murusame (her real name is never revealed), the fourth Artificial Newtype (and the first to be successfully deployed in combat) created by the Murusame Newtype Research Institute. Four was assigned to a mobile armor designated MRX-009 Psycho Gundam, which was based on the technology of the Zeons' MA-08 Elmeth and MSN-02 Zeong mobile armors as well as the RX-78 Gundam.

    The Psycho Gundam was painted black. If there were such a thing as Gundam reborn as a monstrous demon, it would be the Psycho Gundam.
    sick (i.e. awesome) ! I'm definitely looking forward to the Black Psycho Gundam. I was worried that the producers abandoned their idea of Black Gundams after they painted those MK-II units white. But its a great to see that the Black Gundam in the background is actually more powerful with psycho enhancements

    For the very first time, i actually recognized a name of a character you introduce in your posts I saw the name of Four Murusame in the ps3 game as one of the pilots representing Zeta. One good thing about the PS3 game is that they actually have a detailed biographical information for all the pilots in Gundam. That definitely helps one to keep track of all the pilots and major characters in the Gundam universe.

    That's the Zeta Gundam, which will debut in Episode 21 of the series as Camille's signature mecha. It is indeed the best mobile suit in AEUG's arsenal until the Double Zeta Gundam is rolled out in the next series.
    Yup, that's what I expected. Definitely looking forward to that one.

    Even in the ZETA era, I'd say RX-78 Gundam would still be superior to the regular production model MS used by the Titans and the AEUG (i.e. machines such as the RMS-106 Hizack and the RGM-79R GM-II), but RX-78 would probably be outclassed by such mobile suits as RMS-099 Rick Dias or RMS-108 Marasai.
    This information will help a lot for benchmark purposes. Is it possible if you can come up with a ranking of the mecha's within original trilogy and zeta?? That would be a blast I'm sick of all the jin yong rankings

    MRX-009 Psycho Gundam.
    I have a gut feeling that this will be my favorite mecha in Zeta

    The best they've ever been able to do is to copy Char.

    But none of the imitations have ever come close to the *real* Char.
    I think they used the same english dude who did the voice for the *fake* Char in Seed.

    As a Cantonese speaker, I think I know exactly what happened.

    Those translators blow chunks.
    Its so horrendous its not even funny.

    However, the ending of the GUNDAM movies did lay down a few threads that would be used in ZETA:

    1. Char Aznable was shown as having survived the One Year War. In the original TV series, it's ambiguous as to whether or not Char survived. The movies make it clear that Char *did* survive. Without this, ZETA could not happen the way it did.

    2. Duchess Minerva Zabi survived and the remaining Zeon Forces escaped from the Earth Sphere. That means that despite the Zeons' defeat at the end of GUNDAM, they would some day return.

    3. After the final battle of the One Year War, Amuro Ray jettisoned the top half of the remains of the wrecked original RX-78 Gundam to access the escape vehicle hidden within Gundam's innards. The jettisoned top half of Gundam was (and this was revealed only later in the manga stories) recovered by the Archduchy of Zeon Forces and taken by Char, who used the data to help develop AEUG's mobile suits.
    Thanks for the Zeta-backstory information, that really helps a lot.

    However, none of this was in place in 1979 or 1982 when the GUNDAM TV series and movies wrapped up. Tomino developed the whole idea of continuing the GUNDAM saga with the AEUG, the Titans, and the Neo Zeon in 1984 as he began drafting the story of ZETA GUNDAM. I think most viewers of ZETA GUNDAM in 1985 were a bit confused at first to see the Earth Federation suddenly at war with itself, with a brutal wing called Titans and a more heroic wing called AEUG.
    So the AEUG was a new idea introdcued in Zeta right? Were the viewers surprised that Char belong to this AEUG group?


    Titans: The Earth Federation Forces' elite anti-Zeon force. The Titans were organized by the Federal Forces in U.C. 0084 to hunt down and wipe out the Zeon and any Zeon-sympathizers, but quickly became a gang of brutal thugs. As an elite unit, they get the best technology that the Federation has (while the regular forces still have to scrape by using outmoded GMs). Ironically, some of the Titans' elite are ex-Zeon personnel out to take advantage of the situation for personal gain.
    I'm guessing the Titans is a new Zeta group?

    AEUG (Anti-Earth Union Government): Founded and led by Earth Federation Senator Blex Forra specifically for opposing the Titans. Their membership consists of both former Federation and Zeon soldiers who are sympathetic to the Spacenoid cause or simply hate the Titans. AEUG uses a blend of Federation and Zeon technology (as do the Titans). The Zeon technological influence comes from Captain Quattro Bagina (Char) and his subordinates (many of whom were Zeon soldiers under Char's command during the One Year War). The Federation technological influence (which dominates AEUG; it's more Federation-oriented than Zeon-oriented overall in technology) comes from those non-corrupt Federation officials who oppose the Titans. Not everyone in the Earth Federation is sympathetic towards the Titans, and those who feel strongly enough about it join or support AEUG.
    The whole idea of the AEUG and the Titans, and the Federation fighting itself, and Char siding with the AEUG, does seem to turn the Gundam Universe upside down especially if u've seen the original trilogy. I can already appreciate this dark mirror universe based on your descriptions.

    Not in the original TV series or movies, but this was later shown to have happened in the manga books and collector bibles.
    I guess u can infer this from Zeta when you see Federation with Zeon-like units??

    No more black Gundam MK-IIs, but the *Psycho Gundam* should more than satisfy your fetish for black Gundams.
    I have a gut feeling it will... In a sense i'm glad they painted the MK-II's white because this led to the Psycho Gundam u described But i like the idea that the MK-II's were once originally black and then painted white. It has this symbolic ring to it for this dark gundam series.
    Last edited by Ghaleon; 10-26-09 at 02:10 AM.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Ghaleon's Avatar
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    @ Ken, for some reason spcnet forum is complaining about my reply post so i had to split it up into two posts (maybe due to the number of quotes?). Here's the second half of my reply:


    AEUG's mission is established in ZETA itself. In the original GUNDAM, AEUG had not yet even been conceived, but I think the roots that Tomino laid down in GUNDAM facilitated his creation of AEUG for the ZETA storyline. Even in the original GUNDAM, when the Federation represented the "good guys," the Federation was frequently depicted as corrupt and incompetent. Tomino expanded upon this idea in ZETA.
    Ahh i see. So i guess the viewers can infer a lot from the series about AEUG. I'm glad about this since i'm watching zeta before the original trilogy and AEUG is a new group introduced.

    Not nearly as disparate. Between the 1979 TV series and ZETA, there is a painfully obvious difference in animation quality. It's almost hard to believe the two series are part of the same franchise. The three GUNDAM movies, though generally depicting many of the exact same scenes as the 1979 TV series, used fresh, superior animation that does not look embarrassing next to ZETA's. Don't underestimate the difference in quality that three years in the evolution of animation techniques and a much, much bigger budget can make.

    The years 1980-1984 are considered a revolutionary period in the development of animation technique in anime. A quantum leap in quality was attained during this period, particularly in 1984 after the MACROSS: DO YOU REMEMBER LOVE movie set a new high bar for everyone.
    Well glad to hear that the original trilogy is revamped. Don't get me wrong, i would still watch the original TV series (even with its simplistic animation). Its too bad the pirated subs suck.

    Very cool. If only I owned a PS3...

    Unfortunately for you, GUNDAM fandom is not as inexpensive as BUND fandom. BUND fandom can easily be fully satisfied for less than $100. GUNDAM fandom can potentially cost you *thousands*.

    As my friends like to joke: "drugs would be cheaper."
    You *must* get this game if u get a PS3. All the pilots are included (with the right voice actors from the anime I believe), all the mecha's are included (with its battle capabilities and stats faithful to the anime I believe), a real-time voice chat is included (along with the anime drawing of the pilot's head) making the battles feel like the battles in the anime, and the main Story mode adapts the major events in the UC timeline. Its "gundam heaven" especially for fans of the original timeline. They also have a comprehensive mission mode where they mix and match pilots and Gundam units from all the Gundam series including UC Timeline, Seed, Wing, Turn-A, etc. So you can have stuff like Kira (Seed) v.s. Amuro Ray They also have very cool boss battles. Definitely a drug.

    Yeah no kidding eh?? Gundam is the best drug ever. This series is definitely costing me a lot of dough (but its also worth it!).

    I'm still using a PS2 that I got back in 2002. Just haven't felt like investing hundreds into a new game system.
    Well if u get a PS3, definitely get this game. I think they also have a PS2 version of this game (or maybe its part 1 only?) but the graphics won't be as nice.

    another thing that sold me over was that the PS3 works as a blu-ray player as well. blu-ray players are usually like 200$ anyway, so you're paying 100$ extra for the game system part of it. the ps3 is also backwards compatible to play DVD too.

    Yeah...GUNDAM just never really caught on in the U.S....especially old school GUNDAM.
    That's highly unfortunate. They are so missing out. One would think that the mainstream success of Seed in northa america will open up viewers to the superior UC timeline. but that hasn't really happened yet. I think its the fault of the advertising and PR. its such a shame. there aren't that many people to discuss Gundam stuff in north america whereas in Japan Gundam is a cultural icon. Gundam fans here are few and far between We have to unite haha.
    Last edited by Ghaleon; 10-26-09 at 02:15 AM.

  9. #9
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghaleon View Post
    Ahhh... The Psycho Gundam. Yeah i saw that in the ps3 game. The MK-unit II's they had were painted white in the game so i was so disappointed until i saw this black gundam from Zeta called "Psycho Gundam" in the lineup. I was like, "damn, what is this???" and then my excitement meter rose up haha.
    Psycho Gundam is slower-moving than any other Gundam, but it makes up for it in MASSIVE firepower and armor. The thing is like Godzilla. It's almost impossible to damage/destroy it (well, very difficult anyway), and its weapons are absolutely devastating. At one point in ZETA, Camille, Char, and Amuro gang up on the Psycho Gundam and they *still* can't beat it. It's the Janitor Monk of Gundams.

    Fortunately, the Psycho Gundam depends on its pilot Four, and she's a bit unstable (to say the least).

    After reading your descriptive post, I have to say that the Real Robot genre is freaking awesome. Quick Q - no other mecha was equipped with the psycho telepathic enhancement in the original trilogy? Is it safe to say that those MA's with the psycho enhancement were the most advanced technology in the original trilogy?
    Yes. MAN-08 Elmeth and MSN-02 Zeong are the only units equipped with Psychom weapons systems. Even in the era of ZETA, they are not common. Psycho Gundam is the Federation's first foray into this kind of technology. Eventually, Amuro Ray's Nu Gundam becomes the most successful application of Psychom technology in the Federation Forces (until the White Phoenix Gundam in my fanfic, anyway).

    sick (i.e. awesome) ! I'm definitely looking forward to the Black Psycho Gundam. I was worried that the producers abandoned their idea of Black Gundams after they painted those MK-II units white. But its a great to see that the Black Gundam in the background is actually more powerful with psycho enhancements
    Psycho Gundam is a monster. The first time I saw it in action, it actually scared me. It's a freaking scary mobile suit on several levels (size, power, and just concept).

    For the very first time, i actually recognized a name of a character you introduce in your posts I saw the name of Four Murusame in the ps3 game as one of the pilots representing Zeta. One good thing about the PS3 game is that they actually have a detailed biographical information for all the pilots in Gundam. That definitely helps one to keep track of all the pilots and major characters in the Gundam universe.
    It'll be an OK crutch until you're familiar with the place.

    This information will help a lot for benchmark purposes. Is it possible if you can come up with a ranking of the mecha's within original trilogy and zeta?? That would be a blast I'm sick of all the jin yong rankings
    That's a tough one because performance depends on the pilot. Theoretically, Amuro Ray in an old Zeon Zaku could easily destroy...er, you and me piloting Nu Gundam and Zeta Gundam because...well, he's Amuro Ray and we aren't.

    I have a gut feeling that this will be my favorite mecha in Zeta
    Hope you like monsters, because that's the word that best describes the Psycho Gundam: it's a MONSTER.

    It's like Satan's cross-spawn of RX-78 Gundam and MSN-02 Zeong.


    Its so horrendous its not even funny.
    It makes those gwailo actors from THE BUND sound like native-born Cantonese speakers by comparison.


    So the AEUG was a new idea introdcued in Zeta right? Were the viewers surprised that Char belong to this AEUG group?

    I'm guessing the Titans is a new Zeta group?

    AEUG and Titans were both first referenced in ZETA GUNDAM.

    Yes, Char's reappearance in ZETA as Quattro Bagina was a big surprise for ZETA viewers back in 1985. It took a while to figure out just what Char was up to, and whose side he was *really* on.


    The whole idea of the AEUG and the Titans, and the Federation fighting itself, and Char siding with the AEUG, does seem to turn the Gundam Universe upside down especially if u've seen the original trilogy. I can already appreciate this dark mirror universe based on your descriptions.
    Yep. You'll see it even more after you view the original trilogy.


    I guess u can infer this from Zeta when you see Federation with Zeon-like units??
    Yes...and the dark colors of the Titans' uniforms (classic Federation-style uniform cuttings, but with ornate decorations vaguely suggestive of Zeon) indicated that things had changed in the Earth Federation since the days of the White Base and RX-78 Gundam.

    This wasn't your father's (or big brother's) Earth Federation anymore.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Ghaleon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Psycho Gundam is slower-moving than any other Gundam, but it makes up for it in MASSIVE firepower and armor. The thing is like Godzilla. It's almost impossible to damage/destroy it (well, very difficult anyway), and its weapons are absolutely devastating. At one point in ZETA, Camille, Char, and Amuro gang up on the Psycho Gundam and they *still* can't beat it. It's the Janitor Monk of Gundams.

    Fortunately, the Psycho Gundam depends on its pilot Four, and she's a bit unstable (to say the least).
    Wow, Janitor Monk eh? Damn that' scary. Ok, so how big is the Psycho Gundam? In the game, its huge. like 3-4 times the size of a regular Gundam. I always thought it was just slightly bigger than the regular Gundam, didn't know they were like giants.



    Is this the right proportion?? I'm wondering if the game is exaggerating its size. And if so, are the Mobile Armor units in Mobile Suit Gundam that giant and big as well??

    Yes. MAN-08 Elmeth and MSN-02 Zeong are the only units equipped with Psychom weapons systems. Even in the era of ZETA, they are not common. Psycho Gundam is the Federation's first foray into this kind of technology. Eventually, Amuro Ray's Nu Gundam becomes the most successful application of Psychom technology in the Federation Forces (until the White Phoenix Gundam in my fanfic, anyway).
    I can't wait until i get to CC and check out the Nu.

    Psycho Gundam is a monster. The first time I saw it in action, it actually scared me. It's a freaking scary mobile suit on several levels (size, power, and just concept).
    This is probably my next model to get

    That's a tough one because performance depends on the pilot. Theoretically, Amuro Ray in an old Zeon Zaku could easily destroy...er, you and me piloting Nu Gundam and Zeta Gundam because...well, he's Amuro Ray and we aren't.
    Ok this is from the PS3 game where they actually rated the characters in fighting ability, shooting ability and defense. The #1 guy is Amuro Ray (as expected). Char Aznable and Kamille Bidan are tied for forth place. And as you mentioned that Four chick is a bit *unstable*, so she's ranked #27. So far it matches your opinion

    Name - Fht - Sht - Def - Total
    ==============================================
    Amuro Ray - 258 - 300 - 259 - 817
    Usso Ewin - 280 - 277 - 260 - 817
    Master Asia - 300 - 219 - 280 - 799
    Char Aznable - 298 - 259 - 240 - 797
    Kamille Bidan - 280 - 297 - 220 - 797
    Heero Yuy - 239 - 280 - 278 - 797
    Haman Karn - 259 - 298 - 239 - 796
    Domon Kasshu - 300 - 198 - 298 - 796
    Judau Ashta - 258 - 277 - 260 - 795
    Kira Yamato - 259 - 299 - 237 - 795
    Milliardo Peacefraft - 275 - 259 - 257 - 791
    Athrun Zala - 277 - 258 - 256 - 791
    Paptimus Scirocco - 278 - 279 - 219 - 776
    Loran Cehack - 238 - 237 - 300 - 775
    Seabook Arno - 257 - 278 - 238 - 773
    Jerid Messa - 234 - 239 - 298 - 771
    Shinn Asuka - 276 - 256 - 235 - 767
    Yazan Gable - 274 - 257 - 234 - 765
    Dozle Zabi - 272 - 217 - 274 - 763
    Ramba Ral - 273 - 233 - 253 - 759
    Elpeo Puru - 220 - 276 - 260 - 756
    Roux Louka - 236 - 240 - 277 - 753
    Puru Two - 256 - 260 - 237 - 753
    Gym Ghingnham - 278 - 216 - 255 - 749
    Emma Sheen - 220 - 250 - 278 - 748
    Katejina Loos - 254 - 220 - 274 - 748
    Sleggar Law - 217 - 273 - 254 - 744
    Four Murasame - 250 - 275 - 218 - 743
    Quess Paraya - 251 - 274 - 217 - 742
    Reccoa Londe - 218 - 240 - 275 - 733
    Rosamia Badam - 271 - 251 - 198 - 720
    Cecily Fairchild - 233 - 254 - 233 - 720
    Hayato Kobayashi - 230 - 218 - 270 - 718
    Glemy Toto - 231 - 250 - 233 - 714
    Kai Shiden - 200 - 254 - 252 - 706
    Sarah Zabiarov - 232 - 273 - 199 - 704
    Lunamaria Hawke - 219 - 253 - 232 - 704
    Gyunei Guss - 252 - 250 - 200 - 702
    Lacus Clyne - 180 - 271 - 251 - 702
    M'Quve - 255 - 215 - 230 - 700

    Also about the mecha stats...... Just looking at the Mobile Suits (and not the Mobile Armors) in the game, it seems that Zeta and Nu are the best Gundam units based on their stats. Is this a accurate assessment? And have u heard of something called a Devil Gundam?? The game classifies it as a Mobile Armor as well.

    Hope you like monsters, because that's the word that best describes the Psycho Gundam: it's a MONSTER.

    It's like Satan's cross-spawn of RX-78 Gundam and MSN-02 Zeong.
    SWEET I'll reserve further comments until I see this beast in action


    It makes those gwailo actors from THE BUND sound like native-born Cantonese speakers by comparison.
    Haha. Okay, Okay, Okay...... Let me put it this way. If I close my eyes and then randomly start pressing keys on the keyboard, whatever gibberish that actually appears on the screen is NOT that much better than the chinese pirated subs. I'm obviously exaggerating here, but i just want to emphasize how bad those subs are. It's horrendous. Even a kindergarten or Gr.1 student can do better. MUCH better.

    AEUG and Titans were both first referenced in ZETA GUNDAM.
    Nice nice. So i'm on the same page here as other viewers (who have watched the original trilogy)

    Yes, Char's reappearance in ZETA as Quattro Bagina was a big surprise for ZETA viewers back in 1985. It took a while to figure out just what Char was up to, and whose side he was *really* on.
    Yeah i'm pretty clueless here as well. Let's see what happens.


    Okay i'm going back to my marathon. I'll post my thoughts on the episodes soon.

  11. #11
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghaleon View Post
    Wow, Janitor Monk eh? Damn that' scary. Ok, so how big is the Psycho Gundam? In the game, its huge. like 3-4 times the size of a regular Gundam. I always thought it was just slightly bigger than the regular Gundam, didn't know they were like giants.



    Is this the right proportion?? I'm wondering if the game is exaggerating its size. And if so, are the Mobile Armor units in Mobile Suit Gundam that giant and big as well??
    The Psycho Gundam really was that much bigger than the average mobile suit of its era. The average mobile suits top out at 18-20 meters tall. Psycho Gundam was *50* meters tall, which put it at the size of some of the bigger super robots (by comparison, Godzilla in the first GODZILLA movie from the 1950s was 50 meters tall as well, as was the 1970s super robot Raideen, which was one of the bigger super robots).

    Mobile armors typically have three to five times the mass of a mobile suit. The biggest one of all (to date) was probably the Archduchy of Zeon's MA-08 Byg Zam from the One Year War. That thing dwarfed even Psycho Gundam (still, Amuro sent it bye-bye with the RX-78 Gundam).

    I can't wait until i get to CC and check out the Nu.
    When you see the RX-93 Nu Gundam, you'll understand why, with all due respect to the MK-II, Zeta, and Double Zeta, the Nu was probably the *truest* successor to the original RX-78.

    Ok this is from the PS3 game where they actually rated the characters in fighting ability, shooting ability and defense. The #1 guy is Amuro Ray (as expected). Char Aznable and Kamille Bidan are tied for forth place. And as you mentioned that Four chick is a bit *unstable*, so she's ranked #27. So far it matches your opinion

    Name - Fht - Sht - Def - Total
    ==============================================
    Amuro Ray - 258 - 300 - 259 - 817
    Usso Ewin - 280 - 277 - 260 - 817
    Master Asia - 300 - 219 - 280 - 799
    Char Aznable - 298 - 259 - 240 - 797
    Kamille Bidan - 280 - 297 - 220 - 797
    Heero Yuy - 239 - 280 - 278 - 797
    Haman Karn - 259 - 298 - 239 - 796
    Domon Kasshu - 300 - 198 - 298 - 796
    Judau Ashta - 258 - 277 - 260 - 795
    Kira Yamato - 259 - 299 - 237 - 795
    Milliardo Peacefraft - 275 - 259 - 257 - 791
    Athrun Zala - 277 - 258 - 256 - 791
    Paptimus Scirocco - 278 - 279 - 219 - 776
    Loran Cehack - 238 - 237 - 300 - 775
    Seabook Arno - 257 - 278 - 238 - 773
    Jerid Messa - 234 - 239 - 298 - 771
    Shinn Asuka - 276 - 256 - 235 - 767
    Yazan Gable - 274 - 257 - 234 - 765
    Dozle Zabi - 272 - 217 - 274 - 763
    Ramba Ral - 273 - 233 - 253 - 759
    Elpeo Puru - 220 - 276 - 260 - 756
    Roux Louka - 236 - 240 - 277 - 753
    Puru Two - 256 - 260 - 237 - 753
    Gym Ghingnham - 278 - 216 - 255 - 749
    Emma Sheen - 220 - 250 - 278 - 748
    Katejina Loos - 254 - 220 - 274 - 748
    Sleggar Law - 217 - 273 - 254 - 744
    Four Murasame - 250 - 275 - 218 - 743
    Quess Paraya - 251 - 274 - 217 - 742
    Reccoa Londe - 218 - 240 - 275 - 733
    Rosamia Badam - 271 - 251 - 198 - 720
    Cecily Fairchild - 233 - 254 - 233 - 720
    Hayato Kobayashi - 230 - 218 - 270 - 718
    Glemy Toto - 231 - 250 - 233 - 714
    Kai Shiden - 200 - 254 - 252 - 706
    Sarah Zabiarov - 232 - 273 - 199 - 704
    Lunamaria Hawke - 219 - 253 - 232 - 704
    Gyunei Guss - 252 - 250 - 200 - 702
    Lacus Clyne - 180 - 271 - 251 - 702
    M'Quve - 255 - 215 - 230 - 700
    Who the hell is "Usso Ewin," though? Must be some alternate universe character.

    Also about the mecha stats...... Just looking at the Mobile Suits (and not the Mobile Armors) in the game, it seems that Zeta and Nu are the best Gundam units based on their stats. Is this a accurate assessment?
    Those two are the most popular after the classic RX-78, so it's not surprising.

    The Double Zeta might be the one with the heaviest firepower, but Double Zeta had a clunky, overly complex transformation and vehicle-separation sequence. That was its selling point and its greatest advantage, of course, but it was also something of an albatross. The Double Zeta was a Gundam on steroids.

    And have u heard of something called a Devil Gundam?? The game classifies it as a Mobile Armor as well.
    Never heard of it. Must not be UC (unless it's a nickname for Psycho Gundam).


    SWEET I'll reserve further comments until I see this beast in action
    Psycho Gundam makes its debut wrecking Hong Kong. With any luck, the Psycho Gundam blasted TVB's offices for not properly releasing THE BUND complete and unedited with the works.

    That'll learn 'em!

  12. #12
    Senior Member Ghaleon's Avatar
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    Okay, i finished 20 episodes so far. So far its awesome, full of action and I love the atmosphere. Episodes 5-15 move at a very fast pace tho, especially considering i never watched the original trilogy. It's one of the few anime that i have to pay full attention to. I can't relax as much I finally got used to the pace after episode 15 tho. and i kinda like the pace now, it forces u to be engaged and absorbed in the anime. Few shows can do that. I was surprised that the pace slowed down a little bit in the 4 episodes dealing with Four and the Psycho Gundam. They devoted some extra time for character development and relationships.

    Thanks for your informational posts earlier in this thread. It really helps with the understanding since the pace of the series seems to be fast. For example, ur descriptions of the factions really helped. Sometimes this series throws lot of information at you and before my mind has time to absorb it something big happens and my attention is forced there. But like i said above, i'm finally used to the pace of the series. It's very engaging and fun diving into the complex world of Gundam. Your descriptions really help with the understanding too.

    Psycho Gundam is slower-moving than any other Gundam, but it makes up for it in MASSIVE firepower and armor. The thing is like Godzilla. It's almost impossible to damage/destroy it (well, very difficult anyway), and its weapons are absolutely devastating. At one point in ZETA, Camille, Char, and Amuro gang up on the Psycho Gundam and they *still* can't beat it. It's the Janitor Monk of Gundams.
    Yeah ur right, its HUGE and powerful. I'm kind of glad that they saved the "black paint" for the Psycho Gundam when they painted the MK-II's white. I also didn't see Char in the fight against the Psycho Gundam like you mentioned. Isn't he in space at this point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    The Psycho Gundam really was that much bigger than the average mobile suit of its era. The average mobile suits top out at 18-20 meters tall. Psycho Gundam was *50* meters tall, which put it at the size of some of the bigger super robots (by comparison, Godzilla in the first GODZILLA movie from the 1950s was 50 meters tall as well, as was the 1970s super robot Raideen, which was one of the bigger super robots).
    Yeah its HUGE and your Godzilla parallel is right on the mark. It's tough to beat. Even in the PS3 game I died like at least 5 times fighting it before i managed to beat it finally (luckily). And this was on the "easy" setting

    Mobile armors typically have three to five times the mass of a mobile suit. The biggest one of all (to date) was probably the Archduchy of Zeon's MA-08 Byg Zam from the One Year War. That thing dwarfed even Psycho Gundam (still, Amuro sent it bye-bye with the RX-78 Gundam).
    Can't wait to see that one. Oh, the Byg Zam. That's one of the bosses in the PS3 game. Unfortunately the game doesn't allow you to play as the Mobile Armors (only to fight them)

    Okay, you mentioned the Zeong in your earlier posts that it has psychomm technology and was the mecha Char piloted in the final battle. Do only Mobile Armor have psychomm technology? In the game, the Zeong is classified as a regular Mobile Suit instead of a Mobile Armor.

    When you see the RX-93 Nu Gundam, you'll understand why, with all due respect to the MK-II, Zeta, and Double Zeta, the Nu was probably the *truest* successor to the original RX-78.
    It's the #2 Gundam unit in the Ps3 game Yeah I can't wait until Char's Counterattack. I'm having an intense urge to watch CC after I finish up with Zeta.

    The top 25 mecha in the PS3 game:

    Name ----------------- FHT - SHT - DEF - ARMR - MOB - THRS - TOTL - Cl
    ================================================
    God Gundam ----------- 700 - 580 - 660 - 0950 - 600 - 1000 - 4490 - 1
    Nu Gundam ------------ 677 - 680 - 620 - 0900 - 600 - 0900 - 4377 - 1
    Strike Freedom ------- 636 - 700 - 658 - 0890 - 550 - 0900 - 4334 - 1
    Sazabi --------------- 680 - 640 - 660 - 1000 - 500 - 0850 - 4330 - 1
    Master Gundam -------- 700 - 600 - 620 - 0950 - 550 - 0900 - 4320 - 1
    Z Gundam ------------- 620 - 700 - 640 - 0800 - 600 - 0950 - 4310 - 1
    Hyaku Shiki ---------- 660 - 657 - 600 - 0850 - 500 - 0995 - 4262 - 1
    Qubeley Mk-II EP------ 600 - 698 - 598 - 0845 - 600 - 0900 - 4241 - 1
    Qubeley -------------- 600 - 700 - 640 - 0845 - 600 - 0850 - 4235 - 1
    Turn-A Gundam -------- 640 - 637 - 700 - 1000 - 400 - 0850 - 4227 - 1
    Gundam F91 ----------- 660 - 680 - 620 - 0750 - 550 - 0950 - 4210 - 1
    Infinite Justice ----- 660 - 620 - 680 - 0850 - 500 - 0900 - 4210 - 1
    Zaku II CA ----------- 700 - 597 - 599 - 0750 - 550 - 1000 - 4196 - 1
    Wing Gundam Zero ----- 600 - 700 - 697 - 0795 - 500 - 0900 - 4192 - 1
    V2 Gundam ------------ 680 - 677 - 640 - 0950 - 400 - 0800 - 4147 - 1
    Qubeley Mk-II P2 ----- 620 - 680 - 640 - 0800 - 550 - 0850 - 4140 - 1
    Destiny Gundam ------- 698 - 620 - 620 - 0800 - 450 - 0950 - 4138 - 1
    Gundam Epyon --------- 680 - 576 - 679 - 0850 - 500 - 0850 - 4135 - 1
    Musha Gundam Mk-II --- 698 - 580 - 700 - 0900 - 450 - 0800 - 4128 - 1
    The O ---------------- 660 - 620 - 659 - 0950 - 350 - 0850 - 4089 - 1
    Musha Gundam --------- 700 - 579 - 700 - 0900 - 400 - 0800 - 4079 - 1
    ZZ Gundam ------------ 640 - 658 - 680 - 1000 - 350 - 0750 - 4078 - 1
    Byalant -------------- 615 - 658 - 616 - 0740 - 490 - 0935 - 4053 - 2
    Gundam Mk-II Titans -- 640 - 658 - 638 - 0800 - 500 - 0800 - 4036 - 1
    Zeong ---------------- 597 - 676 - 598 - 0790 - 490 - 0885 - 4036 - 2
    Gundam --------------- 638 - 660 - 678 - 0850 - 400 - 0800 - 4026 - 1


    Does this list make sense with accordance to the anime? I only posted the top 25 mecha to see what MS units have surpassed the original Gundam according to the PS3 game makers. I'm wondering if their ranking matches the anime series. They have the Gundam Mk-II Titans slightly better than Gundam which is what you said right? The ZZ Gundam isn't that high on the list though. And Char's Zeong is almost same strength as the original Gundam but the Zeong has psychomm technology. The Nu Gundam is at the top at #2, I guess they consider it the best Gundam unit in the original timeline. The Zeta Gundam and Char's Hyaku Shiki are near the top. I didn't know that the Hyaku Shiki was that powerful. Is that accurate assessment?

    Who the hell is "Usso Ewin," though? Must be some alternate universe character.
    No clue. Maybe he's from Fighter Gundam? Have u heard of that series?? I heard that its like a fighting tournament or something?

    The Double Zeta might be the one with the heaviest firepower, but Double Zeta had a clunky, overly complex transformation and vehicle-separation sequence. That was its selling point and its greatest advantage, of course, but it was also something of an albatross. The Double Zeta was a Gundam on steroids.
    Here's something interesting, though: we never see Amuro during DOUBLE ZETA. He's mentioned in passing once during DOUBLE ZETA as having gone into space (he obviously got over his space phobia) to fight the Neo Zeon, but that's it. We don't hear from or about Amuro again until CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK.
    Nice.... I'm thinking of watching CC after Zeta. I'm kinda interested in the Char/Amuro thing going on. It'll be funny if i end up watching the original trilogy last.

    Never heard of it. Must not be UC (unless it's a nickname for Psycho Gundam).
    It's classified as an extremely powerful Mobile Armor, that's all i know of it.

    Psycho Gundam makes its debut wrecking Hong Kong. With any luck, the Psycho Gundam blasted TVB's offices for not properly releasing THE BUND complete and unedited with the works.

    That'll learn 'em!
    Yeah the HK episode was pretty cool. The debut of the Psycho Gundam. Maybe the 4 episodes devoted to Four and Psycho Gundam (and the fact that its beast) earned it a spot on the Zeta Gundam cover Out of all the antagonists so far, it seems that Four is the most developed (even getting personal with Kamille).



    BTW, I also noticed the Hyaku Shiki on the DVD cover. I love the gold paint on this unit It matches Char's blonde hair. Gundam's most iconic character deserves something as flashy. So far my favorite Gundam units are the Hyaku Shiki and the Psycho Gundam. And I'm looking forward to the Zeta Gundam

    I have to say that Zeta's DVD cover (for part 1) is the best cover art of any anime i've seen so far.

    It's nice seeing the legendary Amuro in action (finally) even if he's piloting only a Rick Dias. He is really skilled. and like u said, Kamille seems to have lot of potential, but Amuro is definitely the most skilled and experienced.
    Last edited by Ghaleon; 10-28-09 at 01:07 AM.

  13. #13
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghaleon View Post
    Okay, i finished 20 episodes so far. So far its awesome, full of action and I love the atmosphere. Episodes 5-15 move at a very fast pace tho, especially considering i never watched the original trilogy. It's one of the few anime that i have to pay full attention to. I can't relax as much I finally got used to the pace after episode 15 tho. and i kinda like the pace now, it forces u to be engaged and absorbed in the anime. Few shows can do that. I was surprised that the pace slowed down a little bit in the 4 episodes dealing with Four and the Psycho Gundam. They devoted some extra time for character development and relationships.

    Thanks for your informational posts earlier in this thread. It really helps with the understanding since the pace of the series seems to be fast. For example, ur descriptions of the factions really helped. Sometimes this series throws lot of information at you and before my mind has time to absorb it something big happens and my attention is forced there. But like i said above, i'm finally used to the pace of the series. It's very engaging and fun diving into the complex world of Gundam. Your descriptions really help with the understanding too.
    Since you were going in without the original GUNDAM, I had to make sure you were covered.


    Yeah ur right, its HUGE and powerful. I'm kind of glad that they saved the "black paint" for the Psycho Gundam when they painted the MK-II's white. I also didn't see Char in the fight against the Psycho Gundam like you mentioned. Isn't he in space at this point?
    The Camille/Char/Amuro gang attack on Psycho Gundam happens later in the series, when AEUG and Karaba join forces to attack the Titans' base at Mt. Kilimanjaro in Kenya, Africa. AEUG's three Newtypes together couldn't overcome Four with Psycho Gundam (however, if Amuro had been the one piloting Zeta, I think they could have pulled it off).

    Yeah its HUGE and your Godzilla parallel is right on the mark. It's tough to beat. Even in the PS3 game I died like at least 5 times fighting it before i managed to beat it finally (luckily). And this was on the "easy" setting
    Remember: Psycho Gundam has an I-Field, which means it's extremely resistant to beam weapons. You need to attack it with solids (i.e. missiles/rockets).

    Zeta Gundam has a few grenades, but most of its weaponry is beam-based. To defeat the Psycho Gundam, I think the best option is actually to use the old RX-78 Gundam with the hyperbazooka...or even the Guncannon or Guntank (from long range). Those mobile suits are older, but they use projectile weaponry against which Psycho Gundam has no defense other than its armor.

    Heh. I'm sounding like Amuro!

    Can't wait to see that one. Oh, the Byg Zam. That's one of the bosses in the PS3 game. Unfortunately the game doesn't allow you to play as the Mobile Armors (only to fight them)
    Some of the old PS2 games allowed you to play the Byg Zam, but it's kind of a b*tch to play. The thing has NO maneuverability. You can't dodge jack in the Byg Zam. On the other hand, your damage soak is frightening, so it takes enemy units a long, long time to wear you down.

    However, if Amuro is coming at your Byg Zam with the RX-78 Gundam, you're screwed.

    In my PS2 GUNDAM games, I sometimes play Zeon or Titans pilots and try fighting Amuro. It's hopeless. The best option is to run and hide. If you try fighting Amuro, he usually PWNS you in ten seconds.

    Okay, you mentioned the Zeong in your earlier posts that it has psychomm technology and was the mecha Char piloted in the final battle. Do only Mobile Armor have psychomm technology? In the game, the Zeong is classified as a regular Mobile Suit instead of a Mobile Armor.
    I actually forgot that Zeong is technically a mobile suit. I keep on thinking it's a mobile armor because it lacked legs (wasn't fully assembled at the time that Char needed to deploy it during the final battle of the One Year War). The legs were available, but were never installed. So Zeong floated out into combat against the Gundam with no legs.

    During the One Year War, only the mobile armor Elmeth and the mobile *suit* Zeong (both Zeon units) had Psychomm weapons. Even during the ZETA era, only the Psycho Gundam (Titans), Psycho Gundam MK-II (Titans), Baund Doc (Titans), and Quebeley (Axis Neo Zeon) had Psychomm weaponry. These became more common during the DOUBLE ZETA era, when many of the more advanced Axis Neo Zeon units had Psychomm weapons. In the CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK era, Nu Gundam (Earth Federation), Sazabi (Neo Zeon), mobile armor Alpha Azieru (Neo Zeon), and Jagd Doga (Neo Zeon) had them.

    It's the #2 Gundam unit in the Ps3 game Yeah I can't wait until Char's Counterattack. I'm having an intense urge to watch CC after I finish up with Zeta.
    You can do that. Amuro and Char don't appear in DOUBLE ZETA anyway, although DOUBLE ZETA wraps up Camille's story (Camille is only a supporting character in DOUBLE ZETA; he's replaced by Judau Ashta because...well, that would be spoiling things).


    Does this list make sense with accordance to the anime? I only posted the top 25 mecha to see what MS units have surpassed the original Gundam according to the PS3 game makers. I'm wondering if their ranking matches the anime series. They have the Gundam Mk-II Titans slightly better than Gundam which is what you said right? The ZZ Gundam isn't that high on the list though. And Char's Zeong is almost same strength as the original Gundam but the Zeong has psychomm technology. The Nu Gundam is at the top at #2, I guess they consider it the best Gundam unit in the original timeline. The Zeta Gundam and Char's Hyaku Shiki are near the top. I didn't know that the Hyaku Shiki was that powerful. Is that accurate assessment?
    Overall, it's all right. I'm not familiar with all those alternate universe Gundams, which shouldn't even be on this list because it's like comparing Jin Yong and Gu Long. The laws of physics in those other Gundam universes aren't even the same (i.e. less realistic).

    I think that despite the seven years of advancement between the One Year War and the Gryps Conflict, the RX-78 Gundam and the RX-178 Gundam MK-II are actually approximately equal to each other. Gundam MK-II had the advantage of such innovations as the movable frame internal skeleton (standard on all post-One Year War mobile suits) and the linear seat cockpit control system (ditto), but lacked RX-78's Gundarium armor, the Core Block multivehicle system, and perhaps most importantly, the learning combat computer that was so much a part of Gundam's success during the One Year War. If you balance these things out, RX-78 and MK-II are probably close to equals.

    The Double Zeta Gundam was extremely powerful; its firepower was inferior only to Psycho Gundam's, but the thing was awkward to use. It had too many modular parts. Judau Ashta and his comrades used it pretty effectively against the Neo Zeon, but Double Zeta had as many drawbacks as it did strengths. It had a lot of raw power, however.

    Hyakushiki is a mecha built for *speed*, not power. Its power was decent, but not up to the standards of Zeta Gundam. In the hands of a highly skilled pilot such as Char, the Hyakushiki can be extremely formidable. I always thought that it didn't absorb damage as well as the Gundams, though.

    No clue. Maybe he's from Fighter Gundam? Have u heard of that series?? I heard that its like a fighting tournament or something?
    Yeah...something ridiculous where they try to combine GUNDAM with STREET FIGHTER. Stupid.

    Nice.... I'm thinking of watching CC after Zeta. I'm kinda interested in the Char/Amuro thing going on. It'll be funny if i end up watching the original trilogy last.
    You're watching ROCH, then going to HSDS, then going back to LOCH.

    Let me know if you forget your name and start adopting random orphans to be your son.


    Yeah the HK episode was pretty cool. The debut of the Psycho Gundam. Maybe the 4 episodes devoted to Four and Psycho Gundam (and the fact that its beast) earned it a spot on the Zeta Gundam cover Out of all the antagonists so far, it seems that Four is the most developed (even getting personal with Kamille).
    Four Murusame appears in only a handful of episodes, but she has an ENORMOUS influence on Camille's life.

    Four's relationship with Camille parallels a situation that Amuro experienced in GUNDAM with a Zeon Newtype named Lalah Sun, who piloted the MA-08 Elmeth. In fact, Amuro's conflict with Char is deeply tied to Lalah. Both of them loved this young woman, and both were partially responsible for her demise.

    BTW, I also noticed the Hyaku Shiki on the DVD cover. I love the gold paint on this unit It matches Char's blonde hair. Gundam's most iconic character deserves something as flashy. So far my favorite Gundam units are the Hyaku Shiki and the Psycho Gundam. And I'm looking forward to the Zeta Gundam :
    For Char, having a mobile suit with a non-red color scheme was a departure. He was known as the "Red Comet" during GUNDAM, and all of his mobile suits (Zaku, Z'Gok, Gelgoog) except for the Zeong were painted his trademark crimson red. During the One Year War, all Federation soldiers feared the nickname "Red Comet," and they knew the appearance of a red Zeon mobile suit meant certain death. Even seven years later, the Federation Forces pilots still feared Char's reputation.

    Painting the Hyakushiki gold was a way to give the proverbial finger to the Titans/Federation, and for Quattro to distance himself from his Char identity.


    It's nice seeing the legendary Amuro in action (finally) even if he's piloting only a Rick Dias. He is really skilled. and like u said, Kamille seems to have lot of potential, but Amuro is definitely the most skilled and experienced.
    Amuro will later be getting a customized mobile suit only for his use, called the MSK-008 Dijeh. The Dijeh, however, is still more of a Zeon-type unit (somewhat resembling the old Zeon Gelgoog types) rather than a Gundam-type unit. You won't see Amuro piloting a Gundam until CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK.

    Unless you somehow get the original trilogy and see him in the classic RX-78 Gundam.

    Amuro is the smartest fighter among all the Gundam pilots. Camille and Judau tend to make many mistakes in combat, although they improve with experience. Neither one, however, ever comes close to being as combat-smart as Amuro. Even when Amuro was a newbie in GUNDAM, his combat instincts were impeccable. His battle judgment was amazing; he almost never made mistakes, and he innovated maneuvers that even Char thought to be impossible.

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    Senior Member Ghaleon's Avatar
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    Ahh just got off work/school pretty late today so only managed to watch 5 eps. Well at least i'm finally done the first half.



    BTW, I loved the title sequence of the first 24 episodes. When the logo/title appears, there's that snazy buzzz sound with the 'Z'. So cool. But they took it out on episode 25 bummer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Since you were going in without the original GUNDAM, I had to make sure you were covered.
    Yeah, and it helped a LOT. I would've been more lost since the pace of the series is FRENTIC. I never seen an anime that moves this fast. It's a good thing tho (now that i'm used to it) since it forces u to be completely engaged.

    The Camille/Char/Amuro gang attack on Psycho Gundam happens later in the series, when AEUG and Karaba join forces to attack the Titans' base at Mt. Kilimanjaro in Kenya, Africa. AEUG's three Newtypes together couldn't overcome Four with Psycho Gundam (however, if Amuro had been the one piloting Zeta, I think they could have pulled it off).
    Ahhh.... So we still haven't seen the best of Psycho Gundam. because so far it hasn't done much, it just grabbed several Gundams. Not totally Janitor Monk level yet. So the Psycho Gundam hasn't been destroyed and Four is still alive? Interesting.

    Remember: Psycho Gundam has an I-Field, which means it's extremely resistant to beam weapons. You need to attack it with solids (i.e. missiles/rockets).

    Zeta Gundam has a few grenades, but most of its weaponry is beam-based. To defeat the Psycho Gundam, I think the best option is actually to use the old RX-78 Gundam with the hyperbazooka...or even the Guncannon or Guntank (from long range). Those mobile suits are older, but they use projectile weaponry against which Psycho Gundam has no defense other than its armor.

    Heh. I'm sounding like Amuro!
    Yeah the I-Field is a b*tch in the PS3 game. all the attacks (whether melee or weaponry) have minimal effect on the Psycho Gundam because of its defenses. The only strategy in the PS3 game is to wait until it shows its weaknesses.

    Some of the old PS2 games allowed you to play the Byg Zam, but it's kind of a b*tch to play. The thing has NO maneuverability. You can't dodge jack in the Byg Zam. On the other hand, your damage soak is frightening, so it takes enemy units a long, long time to wear you down.

    However, if Amuro is coming at your Byg Zam with the RX-78 Gundam, you're screwed.
    Yeah i'm guessing thats why they took out the functionality in the PS3 game. The thing can hardly move and the game emphasizes on movement. Still, it would've been cool to play as the Psycho Gundam.

    In my PS2 GUNDAM games, I sometimes play Zeon or Titans pilots and try fighting Amuro. It's hopeless. The best option is to run and hide. If you try fighting Amuro, he usually PWNS you in ten seconds.
    U sparked my interest. Which PS2 Gundam games are there? Its too bad that the PS3 doesn't play ps2 games, only ps one Yeah Amuro is definitely the best pilot (probably in most gundam games).

    I actually forgot that Zeong is technically a mobile suit. I keep on thinking it's a mobile armor because it lacked legs (wasn't fully assembled at the time that Char needed to deploy it during the final battle of the One Year War). The legs were available, but were never installed. So Zeong floated out into combat against the Gundam with no legs.
    This kind of reminds me of Final Fantasy VII. The final boss, Sephiroth, was flying in the air without his legs. Just floating about. I wondered if Gundam inspired the creators of FF7

    So the Zeong was a bada$$ machine? I'm kinda confused about this whole Psychcommu thing. They don't explain that much in the series. They might say only one or two lines and then just leave it at that. Its hard to catch the Psychommu references. So I have a tough time knowing which Gundam units has this psy-technology. In Zeta, is it only the Psycho Gundam that has it? Does the Zeta Gundam have it too?

    And while we're on the subject of the Zeta Gundam, what functionalities does it have?? because when they introduced the Zeta (finally), they hardly hyped it up or discussed any technical information about it. Does the series gradually reveal its functionalities?? Because I want to be convinced that its the best Gundam unit in the Zeog. But so far it hasn't done anything that special. and I wasn't sure what the "this gundam was meant for u" comment that some guy made when Kamille was first checking out the Zeta. Does this mean it has psy-technology?? I wish the series explains more about the Zeta (or at least i'm hoping the technical capabilities wil be gradually revealed as the series progresses so the viewer can get the sense that the Zeta is a kicka$$ machine).

    And one more thing Why does Kamille have a tough time against Jerid?? It seems like he always loses to him or something. I mean i haven't seen that much times where Kamille got the upperhand on Jerid. Or am I accessing it wrong? Did Kamille best Jerid in all of their battles up to ep. 25? Isn't Kamille the #1 pilot (besides Amuro) in Zeta?

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    Senior Member Ghaleon's Avatar
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    @Ken, this is the second-half of my reply again. something wrong with spcnet forum not allowing me to post the original full message so i had to split the post into two posts.

    During the One Year War, only the mobile armor Elmeth and the mobile *suit* Zeong (both Zeon units) had Psychomm weapons. Even during the ZETA era, only the Psycho Gundam (Titans), Psycho Gundam MK-II (Titans), Baund Doc (Titans), and Quebeley (Axis Neo Zeon) had Psychomm weaponry. These became more common during the DOUBLE ZETA era, when many of the more advanced Axis Neo Zeon units had Psychomm weapons. In the CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK era, Nu Gundam (Earth Federation), Sazabi (Neo Zeon), mobile armor Alpha Azieru (Neo Zeon), and Jagd Doga (Neo Zeon) had them.
    Okay you answered my question above So they actually tell us that the Psycho Gundam has Psychomm weaponry right? I'm tring to pay close attention to all these technologies but sometimes its hard for me to draw conclusions because the series has a quick pace.

    You can do that. Amuro and Char don't appear in DOUBLE ZETA anyway, although DOUBLE ZETA wraps up Camille's story (Camille is only a supporting character in DOUBLE ZETA; he's replaced by Judau Ashta because...well, that would be spoiling things).
    Yeah i think i will.... the urge is too strong But i would like to see Camille's story wrapped up soon. But CC isn't that long anyway.

    Overall, it's all right. I'm not familiar with all those alternate universe Gundams, which shouldn't even be on this list because it's like comparing Jin Yong and Gu Long. The laws of physics in those other Gundam universes aren't even the same (i.e. less realistic).
    Yeah that's true. That's probably one of the reasons why the original Gundams shows were praised right? I can see now that the technological aspects of Zeta Gundam are awesome. It gives a very realistic vibe and a consistent system.

    The Double Zeta Gundam was extremely powerful; its firepower was inferior only to Psycho Gundam's, but the thing was awkward to use. It had too many modular parts. Judau Ashta and his comrades used it pretty effectively against the Neo Zeon, but Double Zeta had as many drawbacks as it did strengths. It had a lot of raw power, however.
    I'll try to remember this post when I watch ZZ.

    Hyakushiki is a mecha built for *speed*, not power. Its power was decent, but not up to the standards of Zeta Gundam. In the hands of a highly skilled pilot such as Char, the Hyakushiki can be extremely formidable. I always thought that it didn't absorb damage as well as the Gundams, though.
    Ahh ic. so only skilled pilots can take advantage of the super-fast Gundam. So in the series they mentioned that the Hyaku was fast right? Or can u just tell by its motion on screen?? Or is it from the datasheets? I'm trying to keep a close eye on the battles now because i want to learn more about this side of the show.

    Yeah...something ridiculous where they try to combine GUNDAM with STREET FIGHTER. Stupid.
    Yeah that's my first impression. There's no plot whatsoever. The gundam fights are only interesting in the context of the epic war saga. By themselves they lack meaning and are quite boring.

    You're watching ROCH, then going to HSDS, then going back to LOCH.
    This unique perspective is very interesting and adventurous Its kind of like diving into the unknown dark abysss and finding your way around with a flashlight.

    For Char, having a mobile suit with a non-red color scheme was a departure. He was known as the "Red Comet" during GUNDAM, and all of his mobile suits (Zaku, Z'Gok, Gelgoog) except for the Zeong were painted his trademark crimson red. During the One Year War, all Federation soldiers feared the nickname "Red Comet," and they knew the appearance of a red Zeon mobile suit meant certain death. Even seven years later, the Federation Forces pilots still feared Char's reputation.

    Painting the Hyakushiki gold was a way to give the proverbial finger to the Titans/Federation, and for Quattro to distance himself from his Char identity.
    Oh i see. I just love the gold color and the head shape/structure. It looks bada$$. Hyaku and Psycho are becoming my favorite Gundam units. I'm waiting for Zeta to impress me still. I'm hoping that Kamille hasn't shown all of what Zeta is capable of.

    Amuro will later be getting a customized mobile suit only for his use, called the MSK-008 Dijeh. The Dijeh, however, is still more of a Zeon-type unit (somewhat resembling the old Zeon Gelgoog types) rather than a Gundam-type unit. You won't see Amuro piloting a Gundam until CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK.

    Unless you somehow get the original trilogy and see him in the classic RX-78 Gundam.
    Well its better than nothing. At least the series brought that issue up in the earlier episodes when Amuro first met Kamille (about why Kamille gets to pilot the Gundam). The Dijeh eh? Damn, the PS3 game doesn't have that unit in the lineup The game has the Rick Dias model but its ranked so low.... It's much lower than the original Gundam unit. I thought the RD model was more advanced than the Gundam (or at least at the same level).

    Amuro is the smartest fighter among all the Gundam pilots. Camille and Judau tend to make many mistakes in combat, although they improve with experience. Neither one, however, ever comes close to being as combat-smart as Amuro. Even when Amuro was a newbie in GUNDAM, his combat instincts were impeccable. His battle judgment was amazing; he almost never made mistakes, and he innovated maneuvers that even Char thought to be impossible.
    Amuro seems to be the ultimate pilot and the most well-balanced. His newtype ability combined with his intelligence, natural ability, and experience, puts him over the top nobody what Gundam unit he pilots. I can't wait to see what damage he'll do with the Nu Gundam

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghaleon View Post


    BTW, I loved the title sequence of the first 24 episodes. When the logo/title appears, there's that snazy buzzz sound with the 'Z'. So cool. But they took it out on episode 25 bummer.
    They did it to "refresh" the opener after five weeks (i.e. twenty-five episodes), but also to cleverly "conceal" the Zeta Gundam until the episode that it first appears. You notice that in the opening titles of the first twenty-four episodes, they only show you the GUNDAM MK-II...not the Zeta. They didn't want to give away the secret of the mysterious Zeta so soon. They wanted to make sure that when you first saw it, you went, "Whoa! What the hell is THAT?!"

    Ahhh.... So we still haven't seen the best of Psycho Gundam. because so far it hasn't done much, it just grabbed several Gundams. Not totally Janitor Monk level yet. So the Psycho Gundam hasn't been destroyed and Four is still alive? Interesting.
    Yep. Contrary to what Camille believes, Four didn't die...and the Psycho Gundam, though damaged, wasn't destroyed. It returns with improvements later in the series.

    Yeah the I-Field is a b*tch in the PS3 game. all the attacks (whether melee or weaponry) have minimal effect on the Psycho Gundam because of its defenses. The only strategy in the PS3 game is to wait until it shows its weaknesses.
    Use solid weapons. If the game is true to the anime, the I-Fields are vulnerable to solid weapons.

    Whenever I go up against a mobile armor with an I-Field in my games, I always use the Guntank or Guncannon to pound it from long distance.


    Yeah i'm guessing thats why they took out the functionality in the PS3 game. The thing can hardly move and the game emphasizes on movement. Still, it would've been cool to play as the Psycho Gundam.
    You can play the Psycho Gundam on the PS2 games, but like the Byg Zam, it's slow and ponderous.

    U sparked my interest. Which PS2 Gundam games are there? Its too bad that the PS3 doesn't play ps2 games, only ps one Yeah Amuro is definitely the best pilot (probably in most gundam games).
    The best GUNDAM games for PS2 are from the VS. series, namely FEDERATION VS. ZEON, its sequel AEUG VS. TITANS, and a final edition called GUNDAM VS. ZETA GUNDAM that features a few mobile suits from DOUBLE ZETA. They're great fun, and very good simulations for MS combat.

    This kind of reminds me of Final Fantasy VII. The final boss, Sephiroth, was flying in the air without his legs. Just floating about. I wondered if Gundam inspired the creators of FF7
    Heh. Maybe. Char noted that the Zeong didn't have its legs and wondered if it was fit for combat, but the engineer told him the legs were for show only.



    In the anime, the poor Zeong never get its legs, but for the models and toys, they did conceive the "Perfect Zeong," which is what the Zeong *would* have looked like had its legs been installed.



    If the legs had been installed, the (Perfect) Zeong would have been as big as Psycho Gundam.

    So the Zeong was a bada$$ machine?
    It was the last Zeon mobile suit experiment of the One Year War, and it was the mecha that finally, finally defeated RX-78 Gundam (although it was also defeated by the Gundam in return). Ironically, the Psycho Gundam would effectively be a combination of Gundam and Zeong. If Gundam and Zeong had a lovechild, it would have been the Psycho Gundam.

    So I guess Psycho Gundam is the bastard son of Gundam.


    I'm kinda confused about this whole Psychcommu thing. They don't explain that much in the series. They might say only one or two lines and then just leave it at that. Its hard to catch the Psychommu references.
    The reason why it isn't explained in depth in ZETA GUNDAM is because the whole Psychomm thing was already established in the original GUNDAM series/movie trilogy. Yet *another* reason you need to watch the original GUNDAM as soon as possible.

    Does the Zeta Gundam have it too?
    Zeta Gundam does not have a Psychomm weapons system, but it does have a unique feature called a Biosensor, which responds to Camille's Newtype abilities. You'll see what this can do in the final episode of ZETA GUNDAM.

    And while we're on the subject of the Zeta Gundam, what functionalities does it have?? because when they introduced the Zeta (finally), they hardly hyped it up or discussed any technical information about it. Does the series gradually reveal its functionalities?? Because I want to be convinced that its the best Gundam unit in the Zeog. But so far it hasn't done anything that special.
    Zeta Gundam was the creation of Camille Vidan. He combined the technology of the Gundam MK-II with the technology of the Rick Dias and the flying armor that MK-II used to enter Earth's atmosphere. The first product to come out of Project Zeta was the Hyakushiki, which essentially had Zeta's basic internal skeleton. But it didn't quite fulfill Camille's vision for what Zeta Gundam should be, so it was assigned to Captain Quattro Bagina. The Metas (i.e. Fa's/Reccoa's transformable mobile suit) was the test prototype for Zeta's transformation abilities, but the Metas was only a test model). Ultimately, all of AEUG's major mobile suit types...Gundam MK-II, Rick Dias, Hyakushiki, and Metas, were incorporated into the final Zeta Gundam design.

    Zeta Gundam's ability transform into the Waverider is its most distinctive feature. Its speed and maneuverability are second to none (and remain so even after the Double Zeta is introduced in the next series), and its weapons systems are the most diverse and powerful among AEUG mobile suits prior to Double Zeta. Its most unique feature, however, is its Biosensor, which you'll see Camille use during the final few episodes of ZETA GUNDAM. The Biosensor will prove essential in fighting the Titans' and Neo Zeons' powerful Newtype soldiers.

    and I wasn't sure what the "this gundam was meant for u" comment that some guy made when Kamille was first checking out the Zeta.
    Camille designed the Zeta Gundam according to his own specifications, so it's truly perfect for him. During DOUBLE ZETA, a host of replacement pilots substitute for Camille in the Zeta Gundam, and although a few of them are decent and even pretty good, none of them can use the Zeta quite like he did. Judau Ashta came the closest, but his machine was the Double Zeta Gundam.

    The same is true with the RX-93 Nu Gundam and Amuro Ray. Amuro designed the Nu Gundam, and it works for him like it would not work for any other pilot.

    nd one more thing Why does Kamille have a tough time against Jerid?? It seems like he always loses to him or something. I mean i haven't seen that much times where Kamille got the upperhand on Jerid. Or am I accessing it wrong? Did Kamille best Jerid in all of their battles up to ep. 25? Isn't Kamille the #1 pilot (besides Amuro) in Zeta?
    I think it's the same reason that in wuxia, sometimes the Greats struggle against the young heroes. It's required by the plot.

    Jerid Mesa isn't that good a pilot. In fact, he sucks. But for some reason, Camille, who often beats people *way* better than Jerid, never beats Jerid easily. Camille always wins in the end, but only after a long struggle...too long considering how much better Camille should be than Jerid. Maybe it's a psychological thing (Jerid murdered his mom and called Camille a sissy-boy, after all).

    Of course, Jerid gets abused by Amuro in the Dijeh later in the series. Unlike Camille, Amuro didn't screw around with Jerid. He just OMGWTFPWNd the bastard.

    Of course, that's Amuro.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghaleon View Post
    @
    Okay you answered my question above So they actually tell us that the Psycho Gundam has Psychomm weaponry right?
    Psycho Gundam has Psychomm weaponry (hence, the name "Psycho" Gundam). It is the first Earth Federation Forces (Titans) mobile suit/armor to have such technology.


    Ahh ic. so only skilled pilots can take advantage of the super-fast Gundam. So in the series they mentioned that the Hyaku was fast right? Or can u just tell by its motion on screen?? Or is it from the datasheets?
    All of the above. Hyakushiki was the product of developing Zeta Gundam's superior speed/maneuverability. For this reason, it was believed to be best suited to Char, who could take advantage of it as the Red Comet.

    I'm hoping that Kamille hasn't shown all of what Zeta is capable of.
    The full potential of the Zeta Gundam isn't shown until the final few episodes of ZETA.

    And then in the early episodes of DOUBLE ZETA, humiliating, comedic things happen to the Zeta. Damn Tomino...

    Well its better than nothing. At least the series brought that issue up in the earlier episodes when Amuro first met Kamille (about why Kamille gets to pilot the Gundam). The Dijeh eh? Damn, the PS3 game doesn't have that unit in the lineup
    The Dijeh looks...interesting. It's definitely more in the Gelgoog/Rick Dias mold than a Gundam, but Amuro uses it very effectively. It shows that Amuro can be effective even if he isn't using a Gundam-class mobile suit. Heck, Amuro could probably PWN most other MS pilots even he were using an old Zaku.

    The game has the Rick Dias model but its ranked so low.... It's much lower than the original Gundam unit. I thought the RD model was more advanced than the Gundam (or at least at the same level).
    Rick Dias should be at least equal to the RX-78 Gundam. After all, the Rick Dias was produced by combining the RX-78's basic technology with the Archduchy of Zeon's MS-R09 Rick Dom and MS-14 Gelgoog series (from the original series/movies). In fact, if you compare the Rick Dias to the Rick Dom and the Gelgoog, you can see the lineage.

    That's another cool aspect of the UC GUNDAM universe...the lineage of various branches and families of mobile suits. On the Zeon side, everything is based on the Zaku, while on the Federation side, everything is based on the Gundam. From these two basic design concepts were derived dozens and dozens of different "families" of mobile suits, and you see them evolve into newer and more powerful forms in ZETA, DOUBLE ZETA, and CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK.


    Amuro seems to be the ultimate pilot and the most well-balanced. His newtype ability combined with his intelligence, natural ability, and experience, puts him over the top nobody what Gundam unit he pilots. I can't wait to see what damage he'll do with the Nu Gundam
    Amuro is the best because, as you said, he has the best combination of attributes. The Artificial Newtype Biosoldiers have more powerful Newtype abilities than he does (as do Camille and Judau), but the Biosoldiers are very unstable (like Four and Rosamia). The thing is, more than any other mobile suit pilot in the GUNDAM universe, Amuro is a strategic fighter who fights *smart*. He plans his actions very carefully, and always tries to figure out a way to take full advantage of his mobile suit's capabilities prior to a battle. He's also good at improvising when things don't go to plan. Most importantly, the mature Amuro in ZETA/CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK is very reliable. Among the Newtypes, he is the most stable. He never loses it like other Newtypes frequently do (although he did have some issues early on in GUNDAM; he had mastered them by the halfway point of the series/movies, though). This makes him the most dangerous MS pilot in GUNDAM.

    Until Jolie Minh, anyway.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Ghaleon's Avatar
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    Just finished watching Zeta after one week. I finally got one Gundam series from the original timeline under my belt. Now i can 'hopefully' understand the Zeta references in the Gundam games as well as appreciate all those models from the Zeta series.

    What's up with the "soul powers" (or the "chi powers") for the mechas near the end? I personally thought it was very cool since it reminded me of Evangelion and RahXephon. But it was kind of weird how Kamille absorbed the "souls" of his friends and having his Zeta Gundam convert these souls to an energy shield and a weapon. So the Zeta Gundam actually has technology that can convert "souls" to energy?? The series gave hints early on that intangible things like emotions can be converted by the Zeta into a powerful (and tangible) energy to be used a a shield or weapon. I personally love this aspect of the show but I had to admit that they threw realism out the window here.

    To understand the history of Zeon, we must first discuss the origins of the Earth Federation Government.

    By the 2040s (our current calendar), overpopulation on Earth had reached a dire crisis point. The world population had reached 9 billion, taxing the planet's ecosystem and natural resources to the breaking point. The planet simply could not support that many people.

    A movement began to have large numbers of the population (several billion people) immigrate to orbiting space colonies based on the O'Neil cylinder design first conceived back during the 1960s. Each grouping of colonies (generally, 30-80 colonies per grouping) built at LaGrange points orbiting the Earth was known as a "Side." Additionally, two cities, Anman and Von Braun, were built onto the surface of the moon. The colonies were generally self-sufficient, running on a combination of solar and self-generated nuclear power, although (at first) they depended on Earth for water and mineral supplies (in later decades, the colonies were less dependent on Earth for these resources because they were able to mine ores from the moon, Mars, and the Asteroid Belt as well as import water from ice asteroids orbiting Jupiter and Saturn). There were agricultural colonies that grew crops and livestock, so the colonies' dependence on Earth diminished as the years went by.

    The year 2045 was the final year of the calendar that we use in the real world today. The following year, the nations of the world formed the Earth Federation Government, a democratic republic modeled on the governments of such 20th Century democracies as the U.S., the United Kingdom (but no monarch), Canada, Japan, etc. With the Earth Federation Government established as the sovereign government of the people of Earth and the space colonies, the Universal Century era began in the year U.C. 0001 (i.e. A.D. 2046).

    The first few decades of space colonization were peaceful and generally prosperous. The construction and maintenance of the space colonies meant many jobs for people who immigrated to space, as well as a whole new economy based around living permanently in space. All this was governed by a benign Earth Federation Government which was, at first, adequately efficient and effective.

    By the U.C. 0030s, however, it was growing increasingly evident that the Earth Federation was becoming a bloated bureaucracy that became increasingly indifferent to and incapable of governing the needs of the Spacenoids (i.e. the people who immigrated to live in the space colonies). The heads of the Earth Federation Government were all people who had never lived in outer space and therefore, did not understand or care much about the needs of the people who lived in the space colonies. Feelings of resentment began to brew among the Spacenoids towards the "elites" of Earth who seemed indifferent to and insensitive to their needs, while the people on Earth (Earthnoids) began to see their space-dwelling brothers and sisters as nuisances always demanding more from them.

    In the early U.C. 0040s, a brilliant and charismatic young Earth Federation senator named Zeon Daikun began to preach the ideology of "Contolism." The Contolist philosophy was that humankind had leeched off of the Earth enough, and had taken a heavy toll on Earth's ecosystem and natural resources. Zeon Daikun believed it was humankind's destiny to live entirely in space, leaving the Earth to plants and other animals so that it could gradually heal the damage that humankind had done to it through centuries of industrial exploitation and warfare. Zeon Daikun, however, that this should be accomplished by choice, not force. He believed that as people began to live longer periods in space, their psychic awareness would expand and they would become more enlightened. Zeon Daikun dubbed such people "Newtypes," and predicted that Newtypes represented the next major phase of human evolution.

    Zeon Daikun was a native of Side 3, the cluster of space colonies (then) farthest from the Earth built in the orbit of the dark side of the moon. At Side 3 more than any other space colony, there was strong pro-Spacenoid sentiment and resentment of the Earth Federation. Zeon Daikun represented Side 3 as an Earth Federation senator during the U.C. 0040s, but by the 0050s, he proposed a radical step: independence from the Earth Federation altogether. This was a controversial step both on Earth and in the space colonies. On the one hand, the Earth Federation wanted to keep its sovereignty over all of the space colonies, but on the other hand, managing all the colonies was becoming an increasingly difficult task (especially since the colonies were expanding; by the time of the One Year War in U.C. 0079, seven Sides colonies were in orbit and several more would be constructed during the U.C. 0080s and 0090s). Finally, in the late U.C. 0050s, the Earth Federation agreed to recognize the Zeon Republic as the first independent space nation.

    The Zeon Republic was founded on a wave of good feelings and hope for the future. Prime Minister Zeon Daikun was an enlightened and benign leader, and the people of Zeon prospered during the first decade of their nation's history. In U.C. 0058, however, Zeon Daikun suddenly fell ill and died, and he was replaced by his own most trusted follower, Deputy Prime Minister Degin Zabi. In fact, Degin Zabi, a much more aggressive Contolist who hated the Earth Federation with a passion, had grown increasingly dissatisfied with Zeon Daikun's pacifistic stance towards the Earth Federation. In Zabi's view, the Earth Federation was ruled by *worms* and *degenerates* that needed to be exterminated if humankind was to embrace its future. Hence, Degin Zabi assassinated Zeon Daikun, dressed up the cause of Daikun's death as "illness," and abolished the Zeon Republic...reorganizing it as the Archduchy of Zeon, with himself as its first Archduke.

    The Zabi Royal Family

    The Zabi Royal Family of the Archduchy of Zeon were cruel absolutist rulers in the tradition of the Russian czars or the D'Medicis of medieval Italy. They were:

    Archduke Degin Zabi (age 70 at time of One Year War): the founder of the Archduchy of Zeon. Previously, a senator in the Earth Federation Government and Deputy Prime Minister of the Zeon Republic under Zeon Daikun. Began the militarization of the Archduchy of Zeon in preparation for a war of extermination against the people of Earth and its Federation government.

    Prince Giren Zabi (age 40 at time of One Year War): Degin's eldest son, and the most ambitious. Prince Giren was even more extreme than his father (whom he eventually murdered and tried to replace), and it was he who convinced his father to expand the goal of Zeon beyond merely destroying the Earth Federation Government to exterminating the Earthnoids (and their supporters in the space colonies) to the last man, woman, and child. Giren Zabi was openly an admirer of Adolph Hitler, and his only criticism of Hitler was that the German Fuhrer had not gone far enough. Giren was as intelligent a man as he was callous and cruel, with an IQ of 200 (a trait that his niece, Minerva, would inherit).

    Princess Kishiria Zabi (age 37 at time of One Year War): Degin's only daughter. Ambitious, but fanatically loyal to her father. Princess Kishiria always had a secret agenda against her elder brother Giren, and she assassinated him after he had assassinated their father during the final hours of the One Year War.

    Prince Dozle Zabi (age 35 at time of One Year War): Prince Dozle was a frightening large, hulking monster of a man...standing over seven feet tall and bulging with great muscles. He was loud and aggressive, and in combat, he knew no restraint. Surprisingly, however, Dozle was widely considered the favorite Zabi among the Zeon people. Although he was a fierce warrior, he was a surprisingly generous leader who treated his men very well, and they all deeply respected and admired him. Among the Zabis, Dozle was probably the fiercest Zeon patriot, as well as the most loyal to his father and his siblings. He was also surprisingly a model family man who doted upon his beautiful young wife, Zenna, and their infant daughter, Minerva, who was born during the final months of the One Year War.

    Prince Garma Zabi (age 20 at the time of the One Year War): Prince Garma was Archduke Degin's youngest child, and his favorite. Handsome, charismatic, and deeply loyal to Zeon, Garma was also a favorite of the Zeon people. An ambitious young man, Garma wanted nothing more than to serve his country and impress his father and elder siblings. He also became a good friend to Col. Char Aznable (the Red Comet), a "friendship" that would doom Garma in the end.

    Princess Minerva Zabi (born during the ninth month of the One Year War): Princess Minerva never did get to know her father, her grandfather, her aunt, or her uncles. She was born during the final months of the One Year War, during which all of her other family members would perish in battle. As the last surviving member of the Zabi Royal Family, however, she was the heir to the Zabi throne. An exceptionally intelligent child (blessed with the same high IQ that her uncle Giren and aunt Kirshiria had), Princess Minerva was indoctrinated in Zeon ideology from an early age by her regent, Haman Karn. When she was eight years old, Princess Minerva served as figurehead leader of the Axis Neo Zeon during their U.C. 0087-0089 campaign to conquer the Earth Federation and the AEUG. After the defeat of the Axis Neo Zeon regime, Princess Minerva went missing. In the continuity of my fanfic, she rescued Char Aznable, who had watched her grow up at Axis Fortress in the Asteroid Belt and had regarded her almost as a daughter. Despite Char's burning hatred for the other Zabis, he always loved Minerva as if she were his child. Char was outraged by how Haman had manipulated and used Minerva, and after Haman's death, Char took it upon himself to care for and train Minerva to be, like he was, a survivor and a leader. Eventually, the teenaged Minerva Zabi fashioned a new identity for herself....Earth Federation Forces Special Forces officer Captain Athena Ibaz, and her adventures begin in my fanfic, MOBILE SUIT GUNDAM: THE SECOND CENTURY Part 1.

    The One Year War

    From the establishment of the Archduchy of Zeon in U.C. 0069 to the outbreak of hostilities with the Earth Federation in U.C. 0079, the Zabi regime militarized Side 3. Using the vast resources available to them from the moon, the other space colonies, and industrial settlements on Mars and in the Asteroid Belt, the Archduchy produced thousands of space warships (armed with beam weapons based on Minovsky particle technology), space fighter planes, conventional ground weaponry (for Earth invasion), and a new weapon...the mobile suit. Based off the technology for the Hydrosuits that were so essential to the construction of the space colonies, the MS would become symbolic of Zeon's reign of terror. Mobile suit research technology started even when Zeon Daikun was still living, and after his death, was speeded up by Archduke Degin. The first combat mobile suit, MS-05 Zaku I, was completed in U.C. 0075. Four years later, with a large army of MS-05 Zaku I and MS-06F Zaku II mobile suits, the Archduchy of Zeon Forces launched the opening salvos of the One Year War.

    And that was the beginning of the anime series/movies: MOBILE SUIT GUNDAM.

    Post-One Year War

    A combination of factors led to the defeat of the Archduchy of Zeon during the One Year War. First, the Archduchy had overextended itself...scoring many early and decisive victories against the Earth Federation during the first few months of the war, but exhausting itself in the process. Moreover, the Zeon were too slow to respond to the Earth Federation's Project Victory program, which had yielded the mobile suits RX-75 Guntank, RX-77 Guncannon, and RX-78 Gundam. The Zeon lost several key battles on Earth and in space to the Federation's warship the White Base, largely due to the heroic actions of Federation MS ace pilot 2Lt. Amuro Ray and his powerful RX-78 Gundam mobile suit. Beyond this, there was too much internal rivalry within the Zeon leadership, with several members of the Zabi Family plotting against each other, as well as ambitious generals working at cross-purposes, and the machinations of Char Aznable, whom only Princess Kishiria Zabi knew to be Cassoval Rem Daikun, the son of the late Zeon Daikun. For reasons known only to herself, Princess Kishiria never exposed Char's identity to the other Zabis. This decision would be her downfall.

    The Archduchy of Zeon surrendered to the Earth Federation Forces on January 1, U.C. 0080, and the Earth Federation re-established a nominal "Zeon Republic" at Side 3 (unlike Zeon Daikun's original government of the same name, however, this new "Zeon Republic" was nothing more than a puppet government controlled by the Earth Federation and would later be enforced by the Federation's elite Titans Corps). Zeon loyalists, however, fled the Earth Sphere for the safety of the Asteroid Belt under the leadership of Grand Admiral Makajara Karn, who had in his custody Lady Zenna and the infant Princess Minerva Zabi. The surviving Zeon forces under Grand Admiral Makajara established a new base at the asteroid Axis in the Asteroid Belt. From there, the Zeon developed new technologies and gradually rebuilt their military power during the next seven years.

    In U.C. 0087, Grand Admiral Makajara Karn died. The revival of Zeon and care of Princess Minerva Zabi, was left to his twenty-year old daughter, Haman Karn. Haman, an extremely ambitious and cunning woman, had exclusive authority to care for Princess Minerva. As such, Haman, a powerful Newtype, used the princess's name and authority to further her own agenda to be the true, de facto leader of the Axis Neo Zeon.

    As a teenager, Haman Karn had fallen in love with Col. Char Aznable, who had survived the One Year War and fled to the Asteroid Belt with the remaining Zeon Forces. Char and Haman had a torrid, brief relationship that came to an end when Char returned to the Earth Sphere to work a deep cover espionage operation (from which he never returned, having chosen to help found the AEUG as Captain Quattro Bagina). During this time, both Char and Haman became close to little Princess Minerva. Whereas Char's interest in Minerva was purely that of a protective and affectionate older brother or uncle, Haman's objective was to use Minerva to further her own ambitions. This comes to a head in MOBILE SUIT ZETA GUNDAM.

    Late in U.C. 0087, the Axis Neo Zeon return in force to the Earth Sphere in the midst of AEUG's struggle against the Titans. The Axis Neo Zeon cleverly and cautiously play to both sides...hoping that the two factions of the Earth Federation will exhaust themselves in their own internecine strife, and then the Axis Neo Zeon can move in for the kill against the much weakened survivor. Sure enough, although AEUG defeats the Titans, it is left much weaker and vulnerable to the Axis Neo Zeon.

    The story of MOBILE SUIT GUNDAM ZZ concerns the year-long struggle between the remnants of AEUG/Earth Federation against Haman Karn's Axis Neo Zeon regime. This war is almost a mirror image of the One Year War: once again, the Zeon occupy the space colonies and even conquer and occupy the Earth for several months (forcing the Federation to surrender and accept vassal status to the Zeon Empire). Zeon mobile suits and soldiers took over the buildings and streets of the Earth Federation Government for months until AEUG/Earth Federation finally fought back. Still, it was not AEUG/the Federation's strength that defeated the Axis Neo Zeon; it was (once again) internal infighting among the Zeon leaders. Zeon general/warlord Glemy Toto led an insurrection against Haman Karn, resulting in the Axis Neo Zeon splintering into two factions. The AEUG/Federation was able to take advantage of this conflict within Zeon to move in for the kill.

    The Axis Neo Zeon War ended in U.C. 0089, but just four years later, Col. Char Aznable reemerged after disappearing for five years to lead another Neo Zeon insurrection. As Char did not have the support of all the remaining Zeon warlords who survived the last war against the Federation, he had only a limited army. Nevertheless, he was able to pose a grave threat to Earth for a period of several weeks in March, U.C. 0093, before being thwarted by the Federation's Lond Bell Task Force led by his old enemies/allies Col. Bright Noah and Captain Amuro Ray. This is the story of CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK.

    So when you get to the world of my fanfic, the Zeon have all been banished to the outer solar system once again, with rival warlords who had served under either the Zabis during the One Year War, Haman Karn during the first Neo Zeon War, or under Char during his counterattack, fighting for power out in deep space. One of these warlords is General Alexander Miguel, the Zeon warlord of Phobos (moon of Mars).

    This will be my fanfic's story: MOBILE SUIT GUNDAM - THE SECOND CENTURY.
    Excellent mini-essay on the Zeons, their history and their involvement in the wars that span the entire timeline. I now have a *much* better grasp of the backstory for Zeta and what lies ahead.

    Since double zeta covers the Neo Zeon war, does Char's Counterattack reference it? Char is not in ZZ right? I guess Char didn't die at the end of Zeta when he fought with Haman. Even after finishing Zeta, I'm still not clear on Char's motivation in that series. What is he trying to do? It seems like Kamille, Amuro and the rest of AEUG agrees with Char's philosophy and even wanted him to be the leader of AEUG. I wonder why he becomes a villain in Char's Counterattack and why he would have a relationship with the Neo Zeons. I remember Char's speech that he gave in the theater when Haman was holding him at gun point and the speech he gave during that live broadcast. I guess that corresponds to the philosophy of his father. I don't think any of the AEUG disagreed with it so i'm wondering why Char becomes a villain in CC and if Char is still considered a villain at all (i haven't watched the original trilogy of course).

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    They did it to "refresh" the opener after five weeks (i.e. twenty-five episodes), but also to cleverly "conceal" the Zeta Gundam until the episode that it first appears. You notice that in the opening titles of the first twenty-four episodes, they only show you the GUNDAM MK-II...not the Zeta. They didn't want to give away the secret of the mysterious Zeta so soon. They wanted to make sure that when you first saw it, you went, "Whoa! What the hell is THAT?!"
    Yeah, but I still missed the buzzing z sound during the title sequence. I'm picky like that

    Yep. Contrary to what Camille believes, Four didn't die...and the Psycho Gundam, though damaged, wasn't destroyed. It returns with improvements later in the series.
    I just find it funny that whenever the Zeta goes up against the Pscho Gundams, Kamille always happens to have a personal relationship with them. And it seems that the weakness of the Psycho Gundams is the head. If you can destroy the head the pilot dies and the whole Gundam falls. So the Mk II returns in ZZ??

    I always thought that the Psycho Gundams would be the final boss in Zeta since in the PS3 game the battles against them are epic.

    The best GUNDAM games for PS2 are from the VS. series, namely FEDERATION VS. ZEON, its sequel AEUG VS. TITANS, and a final edition called GUNDAM VS. ZETA GUNDAM that features a few mobile suits from DOUBLE ZETA. They're great fun, and very good simulations for MS combat.
    Cool. I would check them out but the damn PS3 is incompatible with the PS2. The next best thing is to see if there are any good PS3 Gundam games. But I heard that they are making Super Robot Wars for the PS3 so I can't wait for that.

    Heh. Maybe. Char noted that the Zeong didn't have its legs and wondered if it was fit for combat, but the engineer told him the legs were for show only.



    In the anime, the poor Zeong never get its legs, but for the models and toys, they did conceive the "Perfect Zeong," which is what the Zeong *would* have looked like had its legs been installed.
    The PS3 game has the Zeong with his legs I rather fight against the floating Zeong since its accurate to the series.

    BTW, I liked the final battle sequences between the H.S., the O, the Zeta and Haman's suit (forgot the name). It was like the Greats battling it out. The Newtype battle between the O and Haman was nice with their "chi" powers

    I can't believe Char lost to Haman at the end. I thought the Mr. Red Comet would beat Haman. I gues Haman is a powerful pilot + newtype. But after watching the series, i have to conclude that Kamille is the most powerful MS pilot. I still can't understand why Kamille took sooo long to finish off Jerid. As a villain, he was kind of boring. I thought Haman and Scirocco were good villains. Regarding Scirocco, this dude is a major player. I never seen so many chicks that would devote their lives to him. I can't believe Reocca (?) betrayed the AEUG to follow this bastard.

    If Gundam and Zeong had a lovechild, it would have been the Psycho Gundam.

    So I guess Psycho Gundam is the bastard son of Gundam.
    I'm just surprised that the Psycho Gundams weren't the final bosses.



    Zeta Gundam does not have a Psychomm weapons system, but it does have a unique feature called a Biosensor, which responds to Camille's Newtype abilities. You'll see what this can do in the final episode of ZETA GUNDAM.
    Yeah this Biosensor is *crazy*. This is something I would expect from shows like Evangelion and RahXephon not Gundam.

    Camille designed the Zeta Gundam according to his own specifications, so it's truly perfect for him. During DOUBLE ZETA, a host of replacement pilots substitute for Camille in the Zeta Gundam, and although a few of them are decent and even pretty good, none of them can use the Zeta quite like he did. Judau Ashta came the closest, but his machine was the Double Zeta Gundam.
    He didn't design the biosensor right? That "soul power" thing near the end is out of this world. Is this the reason why the Zeta Gundam suit is popular?

    The same is true with the RX-93 Nu Gundam and Amuro Ray. Amuro designed the Nu Gundam, and it works for him like it would not work for any other pilot.
    Does this have "soul" technology as well?


    That's another cool aspect of the UC GUNDAM universe...the lineage of various branches and families of mobile suits. On the Zeon side, everything is based on the Zaku, while on the Federation side, everything is based on the Gundam. From these two basic design concepts were derived dozens and dozens of different "families" of mobile suits, and you see them evolve into newer and more powerful forms in ZETA, DOUBLE ZETA, and CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK.
    This is something i'll keep track of when I immerse myself in the Gundam franchise.
    Last edited by Ghaleon; 11-03-09 at 01:48 AM.

  18. #18
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghaleon View Post
    Just finished watching Zeta after one week. I finally got one Gundam series from the original timeline under my belt. Now i can 'hopefully' understand the Zeta references in the Gundam games as well as appreciate all those models from the Zeta series.
    Next up is CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK.

    Then, you'll do a weird U-turn and watch the original GUNDAM (I hope) and DOUBLE ZETA. I must say that your route through the original GUNDAM timeline is the most *MESSED UP* ever!

    It's like watching the second half of ROCH, then watching the first half of HSDS, then going back to watch LOCH, and then watching the second half of HSDS, and then finishing with the first part of ROCH.

    I'm surprised you haven't had a fire deviation yet.

    What's up with the "soul powers" (or the "chi powers") for the mechas near the end? I personally thought it was very cool since it reminded me of Evangelion and RahXephon. But it was kind of weird how Kamille absorbed the "souls" of his friends and having his Zeta Gundam convert these souls to an energy shield and a weapon. So the Zeta Gundam actually has technology that can convert "souls" to energy?? The series gave hints early on that intangible things like emotions can be converted by the Zeta into a powerful (and tangible) energy to be used a a shield or weapon. I personally love this aspect of the show but I had to admit that they threw realism out the window here.
    This is a demonstration of the full potential of the Newtype (I guess you can see now why Tomino does not emphasize the Newtype aspect early in the series, but saves it for the end). The potential of the Newtype is greater than anyone from the 20th/21st Century can imagine, and at the end of ZETA, we get a clue as to its possibilities. The Zeta Gundam's biosensor was not originally designed to absorb souls and use their power as a weapon, but that was a byproduct of the biosensor's designated function (i.e. to respond better to Camille's Newtype abilities) as Camille's full potential was unleashed.

    This ability, however, is not within the design specifications of the Zeta Gundam's biosensor. It's pure serendipity.

    Excellent mini-essay on the Zeons, their history and their involvement in the wars that span the entire timeline. I now have a *much* better grasp of the backstory for Zeta and what lies ahead.
    The history of Zeon underlies the entire original GUNDAM saga. It's the framework upon which the entire narrative is built, so it was necessary for you to get a more complete picture of it.

    Since double zeta covers the Neo Zeon war, does Char's Counterattack reference it? Char is not in ZZ right?
    Char does not appear in the flesh in ZZ, although strangely, he's in the opening titles (I think Tomino originally wanted to have Char appear in ZZ, but dumped that idea after he got the green light to do CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK). Haman briefly *hallucinates* seeing Char in one episode of ZZ, but the real Char doesn't actually appear.

    CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK does not dwell on the events of ZZ, but acknowledges that they did happen. Char did go missing in action for five years after he fought Haman and Scirocco at the Gate of Zedan, and Axis Fortress is in the Earth Sphere for Char to use in his infamous "counterattack" because Haman and her forces brought it there to wage war on the Earth Federation six years earlier. Although ZZ is not essential to the plot of CCA, CCA is littered with evidence that the events of ZZ did occur.

    I guess Char didn't die at the end of Zeta when he fought with Haman. Even after finishing Zeta, I'm still not clear on Char's motivation in that series. What is he trying to do? It seems like Kamille, Amuro and the rest of AEUG agrees with Char's philosophy and even wanted him to be the leader of AEUG. I wonder why he becomes a villain in Char's Counterattack and why he would have a relationship with the Neo Zeons.
    When Char operated as Quattro Bagina during ZETA, his goal was to reform the Earth Federation...destroy the Titans and eliminate the corruption in the government (which is why even Amuro was willing support him at that point). Char's experiences during ZETA, however, disillusioned him as far as saving the Federation was concerned. Fighting the Titans only convinced Char that the Federation was corrupt beyond salvation and redemption and therefore, had to be destroyed.

    Char's Neo Zeon are a different breed from Haman's (although many of them are ex-soldiers from Haman's Neo Zeons). Char's Neo Zeon is the first to not have ties to the Zabi Family, although Char organized his Neo Zeon army along the same lines as the Zabi's...not his father's.

    You might say that Char went mad. At the end of CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK, during his final struggle with Amuro, Char says some strange things that gives us some insights into his personality...and his motivations...that we hadn't suspected before. Even Amuro is shocked.

    I remember Char's speech that he gave in the theater when Haman was holding him at gun point and the speech he gave during that live broadcast. I guess that corresponds to the philosophy of his father. I don't think any of the AEUG disagreed with it so i'm wondering why Char becomes a villain in CC and if Char is still considered a villain at all (i haven't watched the original trilogy of course).
    Char is a fascinatingly complex character. He is a villain and a hero, and he is also neither. Early in MOBILE SUIT GUNDAM, he is clearly cast as a villain: threatening the lives of our heroes and innocent people with his red mobile suit and Zeon thugs. As we learn more about his origins and his true motives, however, Char begins to appear less villainous and more like a tragic, misguided antihero. In ZETA, all this gets turned on its head as Char (as Quattro) emerges as a dark hero with good, but somewhat suspect intentions. This is the last that we see of the more idealistic Char, however. By the time of CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK, he is disillusioned and cynical, and full of vengeance towards the Earth Federation in general...and Amuro Ray in particular. Char's reason for turning "evil" again in CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK (and he does have a pretty evil plan...causing nuclear winter on Earth by dropping Axis Fortress on to Asia) is strongly tied into his personal hatred of Amuro, which originates with their mutual role in the death of Lalah Sun during the One Year War.


    I just find it funny that whenever the Zeta goes up against the Pscho Gundams, Kamille always happens to have a personal relationship with them. And it seems that the weakness of the Psycho Gundams is the head. If you can destroy the head the pilot dies and the whole Gundam falls. So the Mk II returns in ZZ??
    Yes. The Psycho Gundam MK-II returns for more action in ZZ. After the PG-II is wrecked in ZETA, the Neo Zeon hijack it, refurbish it, improve it, and assign it to one of their own Newtype soldiers, a ten (!)-year old artificial Newtype named Ple Two.

    I always thought that the Psycho Gundams would be the final boss in Zeta since in the PS3 game the battles against them are epic.
    They're a bit too slow, I suppose. They don't look like the kind of MS that Scirocco or Haman would use.

    The PS3 game has the Zeong with his legs I rather fight against the floating Zeong since its accurate to the series.
    Yeah. Somehow, the Zeong with its legs seems conceptually wrong. Besides, the legs would only slow it down. Not having the legs on the Zeong was probably a factor that helped Char fight Amuro to a draw in their final battle of the One Year War. Gundam and Zeong destroyed each other.

    BTW, I liked the final battle sequences between the H.S., the O, the Zeta and Haman's suit (forgot the name). It was like the Greats battling it out. The Newtype battle between the O and Haman was nice with their "chi" powers
    Haman's mobile suit is the AMX-004 Quebeley. I've always liked the design of that MS. It looks like some weird armored bird/butterfly hybrid.

    We see it again in ZZ, as well as its successor, the Quebeley MK-II and the Mass Production Type Quebeley that would be made for the Neo Zeon's Newtype Corps.

    When I play the PS2 games, I like to have Amuro in RX-78 Gundam fight Haman in the Quebeley. Amuro and Haman never meet in the anime, let alone fight each other, and I've always wondered who would win between them. I think Amuro would kick her butt (and in the game, I make sure he does).

    I can't believe Char lost to Haman at the end. I thought the Mr. Red Comet would beat Haman. I gues Haman is a powerful pilot + newtype.
    Haman had a much better MS too. Her Quebeley is an entire class superior to Char's Hyakushiki. If Char had his Sazabi from CCA (of course, the Sazabi hadn't even been conceived yet at this point), the outcome would have been different.

    Char was outnumbered too. He had to fight Haman and Scirocco at the same time with an inferior MS. He was lucky to survive.

    But after watching the series, i have to conclude that Kamille is the most powerful MS pilot.
    At least until Judau shows up in ZZ, but in terms of overall ability, I think Camille and Judau would still fall behind Amuro. Amuro's Newtype abilities might be slightly weaker than theirs, but his superior battle instincts and smarts make up for it.


    I still can't understand why Kamille took sooo long to finish off Jerid.
    Plot-Induced Stupidity, I guess.

    As a villain, he was kind of boring.
    Yeah, Jerid was an idiot. I kept on waiting for Camille, Char, or Amuro to just dust his butt, but it didn't happen until near the end.

    I thought Haman and Scirocco were good villains.
    Haman and Scirocco are great villains, almost rivaling Char himself. We see much more of Haman in ZZ as she is elevated to the role of *main* villain.

    Haman is one of those villainesses made from the Lee Mok Sau/Mit Jeut See Tai mold, except Haman has more charm.

    Regarding Scirocco, this dude is a major player. I never seen so many chicks that would devote their lives to him.
    Scirocco is a freaking PIMP in ZETA. The man outpimped Char, and that REALLY says something. It's like dunking on Jordan.

    I can't believe Reocca (?) betrayed the AEUG to follow this bastard.
    Reccoa is an interesting character. I think she only went with Scirocco, however, because she was hurt by Char's rejection of her. It was a sort of Wong Chung Yeung/Lam Chiu Ying thing where unrequited love turned to hate.

    Yeah this Biosensor is *crazy*. This is something I would expect from shows like Evangelion and RahXephon not Gundam.
    Late in every GUNDAM series and movie, Tomino brings out the Newtype toys to play...and shows us what they can really do. He typically saves this for the end, however. For most of the story, he only teases us with small clues to what the Newtype thing is all about.

    He didn't design the biosensor right? That "soul power" thing near the end is out of this world. Is this the reason why the Zeta Gundam suit is popular?
    Camille designed the biosensor, but the whole "soul power" thing wasn't part of the plan. That was just a lucky accident of fate. The biosensor was designed to take greater advantage of Camille's Newtype abilities...so that he could integrate better with the Zeta Gundam. The device's actions at the end of ZETA were freakish, and even Camille probably couldn't do it again...at least not at will.

    For more conventional purposes, however, Zeta Gundam is a force to be reckoned with because of its speed, maneuverability, versatility, and durability.


    Does this have "soul" technology as well?
    RX-93 Nu Gundam has a proper Psychomm weapons system, but not a biosensor like the Zeta Gundam has. Amuro doesn't use it to collect "dead souls," but he does channel his (and Char's) Newtype power through it for a very dramatic act at the end of CCA that saves the Earth from nuclear winter.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Ghaleon's Avatar
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    Whew. Finished watching Char's Counterattack. Awesome anime film. High production values and the atmosphere was really heavy and intense. It really felt like i was watching a grand space opera. And I also get to see a side of Char that i've never seen before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Next up is CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK.

    Then, you'll do a weird U-turn and watch the original GUNDAM (I hope) and DOUBLE ZETA. I must say that your route through the original GUNDAM timeline is the most *MESSED UP* ever!

    It's like watching the second half of ROCH, then watching the first half of HSDS, then going back to watch LOCH, and then watching the second half of HSDS, and then finishing with the first part of ROCH.

    I'm surprised you haven't had a fire deviation yet.
    I *nearly* had a fire deviation. Completely engaged. It was a great series but hardly relaxing. It's not something you can watching on a sunday morning with your mind lazy and relaxed. The series forces you to think and pay attention.

    I nearly had a fire deviation watching the beginning of Char's Counterattack. They throw so many things at u and there's not much backstory. You're thrust right into the action without much time to breathe. There's definitely a lot of things going on between Zeta and Char's Counterattack but ur right that its definitely watchable and enjoyable even if u haven't watched Double Z.

    This is a demonstration of the full potential of the Newtype (I guess you can see now why Tomino does not emphasize the Newtype aspect early in the series, but saves it for the end). The potential of the Newtype is greater than anyone from the 20th/21st Century can imagine, and at the end of ZETA, we get a clue as to its possibilities. The Zeta Gundam's biosensor was not originally designed to absorb souls and use their power as a weapon, but that was a byproduct of the biosensor's designated function (i.e. to respond better to Camille's Newtype abilities) as Camille's full potential was unleashed.
    Is this what happened at the end of Char's Counterattack? Something about souls and the rainbow thing in the sky.

    The history of Zeon underlies the entire original GUNDAM saga. It's the framework upon which the entire narrative is built, so it was necessary for you to get a more complete picture of it.
    Yeah most definitely. Zeta was strange in that it began with the Titans and AEUG so I couldn't get the impression of how influential the Zeons were.

    Char does not appear in the flesh in ZZ, although strangely, he's in the opening titles (I think Tomino originally wanted to have Char appear in ZZ, but dumped that idea after he got the green light to do CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK). Haman briefly *hallucinates* seeing Char in one episode of ZZ, but the real Char doesn't actually appear.
    Regarding Char, i felt like he was almost a completely different character in Char's Counterattack than he was in Zeta. Even his character design drawing looks different. After watching Zeta, i got the impression that he was cool laid-back type of guy but with just some heavily opionated political/world views. And then all of a sudden in Char's Counterattack I see this whole other side to him. I haven't watched the original trilogy so that's probably why i don't have a good grasp of his character yet. He definitely seems complex and he gives off a great anime villain vibe in Char's Counterattack. Without having seen the original trilogy, its definitely a surprise seeing Char's transofrmation from Z to CC.

    CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK does not dwell on the events of ZZ, but acknowledges that they did happen. Char did go missing in action for five years after he fought Haman and Scirocco at the Gate of Zedan, and Axis Fortress is in the Earth Sphere for Char to use in his infamous "counterattack" because Haman and her forces brought it there to wage war on the Earth Federation six years earlier. Although ZZ is not essential to the plot of CCA, CCA is littered with evidence that the events of ZZ did occur.
    I just felt they threw lot of stuff at u in CC. Is the gap between the original trilogy to Zeta the same as the gap between Z and CC? Overall CC was indeed an awesome Gundam movie with incredible atmosphere. It just seemed a little bit odd regarding the transition from Zeta to CC.

    When Char operated as Quattro Bagina during ZETA, his goal was to reform the Earth Federation...destroy the Titans and eliminate the corruption in the government (which is why even Amuro was willing support him at that point). Char's experiences during ZETA, however, disillusioned him as far as saving the Federation was concerned. Fighting the Titans only convinced Char that the Federation was corrupt beyond salvation and redemption and therefore, had to be destroyed.

    Char's Neo Zeon are a different breed from Haman's (although many of them are ex-soldiers from Haman's Neo Zeons). Char's Neo Zeon is the first to not have ties to the Zabi Family, although Char organized his Neo Zeon army along the same lines as the Zabi's...not his father's.
    Yeah i liked the Neo Zeons in CC and how its Char's group. He finally gets to have political power whereas in Zeta he didn't even become AEUG's leader. For the very first time I got to see Char's magnetic aura. He's simply a great anime villain (and this is coming from soneone who hasn't watched the original trilogy). Like I said, I didn't even see this side of Char during Zeta.

    You might say that Char went mad. At the end of CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK, during his final struggle with Amuro, Char says some strange things that gives us some insights into his personality...and his motivations...that we hadn't suspected before. Even Amuro is shocked.
    The last bit with the psycho rainbow something was kind of weird. I guess Amuro and Char bit the dust at the end? The movie just kind of ends right away after this struggle.


    Char is a fascinatingly complex character. He is a villain and a hero, and he is also neither. Early in MOBILE SUIT GUNDAM, he is clearly cast as a villain: threatening the lives of our heroes and innocent people with his red mobile suit and Zeon thugs. As we learn more about his origins and his true motives, however, Char begins to appear less villainous and more like a tragic, misguided antihero. In ZETA, all this gets turned on its head as Char (as Quattro) emerges as a dark hero with good, but somewhat suspect intentions. This is the last that we see of the more idealistic Char, however. By the time of CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK, he is disillusioned and cynical, and full of vengeance towards the Earth Federation in general...and Amuro Ray in particular.
    For me, it felt like he did a 360 here. Almost a completely new person. We get to see Char in his tradmark red mecha. He was known as the Red Comet afterall right?

    Char's reason for turning "evil" again in CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK (and he does have a pretty evil plan...causing nuclear winter on Earth by dropping Axis Fortress on to Asia) is strongly tied into his personal hatred of Amuro, which originates with their mutual role in the death of Lalah Sun during the One Year War.
    Yeah, Lalah dominates the very final conversations between Amuro and Char at the end.

    Haman's mobile suit is the AMX-004 Quebeley. I've always liked the design of that MS. It looks like some weird armored bird/butterfly hybrid.

    We see it again in ZZ, as well as its successor, the Quebeley MK-II and the Mass Production Type Quebeley that would be made for the Neo Zeon's Newtype Corps.

    When I play the PS2 games, I like to have Amuro in RX-78 Gundam fight Haman in the Quebeley. Amuro and Haman never meet in the anime, let alone fight each other, and I've always wondered who would win between them. I think Amuro would kick her butt (and in the game, I make sure he does).
    Were the final fights in Zeta the high-calibre ones?? Amuro fights Char in CC, but Char lost to Haman. But then u said the Quebeley is more advanced than the HS. Do fans actually speculate who would win between him and Haman's Quebeley? I thought it was common knowledge that Amuro is the best, even in any machine. Besides, Kamille bested both Scirocco and Haman in Zeta.

    Yeah the PS3 DW Gundam game got the Quebeley too. One cool feature in this game is that u get to join certain teams if their leader sends u an invitation by chance. So for example, I joined the Titans I'm backing up playboy Scirocco and tagteaming with Jerid on varoius missions. But i think if u join their team, ur standing amongst other groups and pilots aren't so good. Amuro and Kamille probably have a low opinion of me because i joined the Ttians. But its kind of cool that the game gives u option of joining various groups, even the bad ones.

    Haman had a much better MS too. Her Quebeley is an entire class superior to Char's Hyakushiki. If Char had his Sazabi from CCA (of course, the Sazabi hadn't even been conceived yet at this point), the outcome would have been different.

    Char was outnumbered too. He had to fight Haman and Scirocco at the same time with an inferior MS. He was lucky to survive.
    That is very true. So how is Char's standing amongst the Newtype Greats? The Newtype Greats that i know of are Amuro, Kamille, Char, Haman, and Scirocco.

    At least until Judau shows up in ZZ, but in terms of overall ability, I think Camille and Judau would still fall behind Amuro. Amuro's Newtype abilities might be slightly weaker than theirs, but his superior battle instincts and smarts make up for it.
    Yeah i agree with that. Even in Zeta they made it clear that Amuro was the #1 pilot with his great skills and knowledge (and he wasn't even with a Gundam unit).

    Yeah, Jerid was an idiot. I kept on waiting for Camille, Char, or Amuro to just dust his butt, but it didn't happen until near the end.
    It took forever for Kamille to dust his a$$. I was having great doubts of Kamille as a pilot because of his inability to beat Jerid during the beginning to middle of the series. I think Kamille only got good near the end.

    Haman and Scirocco are great villains, almost rivaling Char himself. We see much more of Haman in ZZ as she is elevated to the role of *main* villain.
    Great, so there's more Haman action in ZZ. Overall I liked Char in Char's Counterattack the best. I choose him over Haman and Sciroco

    Haman is one of those villainesses made from the Lee Mok Sau/Mit Jeut See Tai mold, except Haman has more charm.
    The b*tchy template eh? But I think Haman (based on Zeta) is far less b*tchy than Lee Mok Sau and MJST. Those 2 are the ultimate in b*tchiness. They are b*tch Greats haha.

    Scirocco is a freaking PIMP in ZETA. The man outpimped Char, and that REALLY says something. It's like dunking on Jordan.
    Yeah watching Zeta you don't get the impression that Char is that kind of guy. You definitely see more aspects of his personality in CC (and the original trilogy which i haven't seen yet).

    Regarding Scirocco, i'm surprised how many chicks love him. They'll even die for him. I don't think any of the JY protagonist commanded such devotion in their devotees.

    Reccoa is an interesting character. I think she only went with Scirocco, however, because she was hurt by Char's rejection of her. It was a sort of Wong Chung Yeung/Lam Chiu Ying thing where unrequited love turned to hate.
    She's a little fcuked up. What was Tomino trying to say here? That women must follow their hearts? She betrayed the AEUG and fought against Kamille because she felt she loved Scirocco whom she met only a handful of times?

    Late in every GUNDAM series and movie, Tomino brings out the Newtype toys to play...and shows us what they can really do. He typically saves this for the end, however. For most of the story, he only teases us with small clues to what the Newtype thing is all about.
    I'm eager for you to explain what exactly happened at the end of CC. I'm a little bit confused.


    RX-93 Nu Gundam has a proper Psychomm weapons system, but not a biosensor like the Zeta Gundam has. Amuro doesn't use it to collect "dead souls," but he does channel his (and Char's) Newtype power through it for a very dramatic act at the end of CCA that saves the Earth from nuclear winter.
    Right, i remember that. He said it was what the Nu Gundam was built for. Was Tomino trying to make a statement about Newtypes and their powers at the end of Char's Counterattack?

  20. #20
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghaleon View Post
    Whew. Finished watching Char's Counterattack. Awesome anime film. High production values and the atmosphere was really heavy and intense. It really felt like i was watching a grand space opera. And I also get to see a side of Char that i've never seen before.
    This is where watching the original GUNDAM is important. If you go into CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK after having watched only ZETA, Char's about-face in CCA seems extremely jarring. If you add in what you know about Char from watching the original GUNDAM, the evolution of his personality through ZETA to CCA makes sense.


    I *nearly* had a fire deviation. Completely engaged. It was a great series but hardly relaxing. It's not something you can watching on a sunday morning with your mind lazy and relaxed. The series forces you to think and pay attention.
    Classic GUNDAM is THE BUND of anime.

    I nearly had a fire deviation watching the beginning of Char's Counterattack. They throw so many things at u and there's not much backstory. You're thrust right into the action without much time to breathe. There's definitely a lot of things going on between Zeta and Char's Counterattack but ur right that its definitely watchable and enjoyable even if u haven't watched Double Z.
    Yep. DOUBLE ZETA is not necessary for watching CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK, but the *original* GUNDAM is...more so even than ZETA. In fact, there are some purist fans who will watch *only* GUNDAM (the movie trilogy) and CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK because they tell the essential story of Amuro Ray and Char Aznable (as well as the Earth Federation vs. the Archduchy of Zeon) as mortal enemies. Their time as allies and friends in ZETA was a sort of interesting detour, but hardly defines their relationship. Amuro and Char are two men who do not have much of a liking for each other: they hate each other's guts, and the hatred you see between them in CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK (which started in the original GUNDAM) is the natural mode of their relationship. Their alliance/friendship in ZETA was an unusual detour.

    ZETA does help make Amuro and Char's return to being enemies in CCA more poignant; they weren't destined to be on the same side and be friends after all.

    Is this what happened at the end of Char's Counterattack? Something about souls and the rainbow thing in the sky.
    Yep. Obviously, *nobody* (including the Zeon soldiers who served Char) wanted to see humanity on Earth wiped out. It was the wish of all humanity that the Axis asteroid not strike the Earth, so the collective willpower of humanity was focused through the Nu Gundam's Psychomm Frame system and became the power needed to push the asteroid back into orbit.

    Yeah most definitely. Zeta was strange in that it began with the Titans and AEUG so I couldn't get the impression of how influential the Zeons were.
    Yep. The *main* story of the original GUNDAM timeline, in the macrocosmic sense, was between the Earth Federation and the Archduchy of Zeon. The AEUG vs. Titans angle in ZETA GUNDAM was an interesting diversion from that original template, but essentially, the main conflict is Federation vs. Zeon. Similarly, Amuro and Char are thought of primarily as archenemies; their being allies in ZETA was an unusual turn for both of them.

    Regarding Char, i felt like he was almost a completely different character in Char's Counterattack than he was in Zeta. Even his character design drawing looks different.
    I remember being quite impressed with Char's "new look" in 1988 when CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK was first released. That swept-back, Hui Mun Keung-style slick hair was *very* 1980s. The long mane in ZETA was a legacy of his classic look in the original GUNDAM, but was looking sort of dated by the late 1980s. It was more of 1970s look, which was fitting when the original GUNDAM was released at the end of the Seventies, but didn't fit the Eighties that well.

    After watching Zeta, i got the impression that he was cool laid-back type of guy but with just some heavily opionated political/world views. And then all of a sudden in Char's Counterattack I see this whole other side to him. I haven't watched the original trilogy so that's probably why i don't have a good grasp of his character yet.
    Yes. It is IMPERATIVE that you watch the original GUNDAM Trilogy ASAP.

    If it comes down to it, I will *loan* you my copy.

    Just don't let it become one of those "permanent" loans. I have a VOLTRON VHS tape that I loaned to a buddy twenty-five years ago, but I *still* haven't gotten it back yet.

    Fortunately, I have the series on DVD these days.

    He definitely seems complex and he gives off a great anime villain vibe in Char's Counterattack. Without having seen the original trilogy, its definitely a surprise seeing Char's transofrmation from Z to CC.
    Yep. You need to see the original GUNDAM for it to make sense. CCA isn't really a sequel to ZETA or even DOUBLE ZETA; it's a sequel (and ending) to the original GUNDAM.

    I just felt they threw lot of stuff at u in CC. Is the gap between the original trilogy to Zeta the same as the gap between Z and CC? Overall CC was indeed an awesome Gundam movie with incredible atmosphere. It just seemed a little bit odd regarding the transition from Zeta to CC.
    From the original GUNDAM to ZETA, the transition was more smooth because you were going either from a TV series to a TV series or from a trilogy of movies to a TV series. With fifty episodes, ZETA could afford to take its sweet time setting up its reordered view of the GUNDAM universe (still, I'm sure it was a little jarring to see a *black* Gundam and to have the Federation as bad guys while Char was a good guy in the first episode of ZETA; that must have thrown the fans a little off at first). With CCA, you were coming off a whopping 95 episodes of ZETA + DOUBLE ZETA to a final two-hour wrap-up, and after focusing on Camille in ZETA and Judau in DOUBLE ZETA, CCA somehow brought us back to Amuro...and Char. The story had come full circle.

    Yeah i liked the Neo Zeons in CC and how its Char's group. He finally gets to have political power whereas in Zeta he didn't even become AEUG's leader. For the very first time I got to see Char's magnetic aura. He's simply a great anime villain (and this is coming from soneone who hasn't watched the original trilogy). Like I said, I didn't even see this side of Char during Zeta.
    It was hinted at in ZETA, during Char's speech at the Federation's congress in Dakar. In the original GUNDAM, a few conversations that Char has with his sister Sayla gives some early hints of his heading in this direction.

    The last bit with the psycho rainbow something was kind of weird. I guess Amuro and Char bit the dust at the end? The movie just kind of ends right away after this struggle.
    Tomino confirms that Amuro and Char both die at the end of CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK. He was only able to make it explicit in his novelization of the movie, however, because Bandai/Nippon Sunrise ordered Tomino to leave it open-ended in the movie...just in case they wanted to do more with the Amuro and Char characters at some point in the future.

    But twenty-one years later, the two characters have *not* reappeared again. Despite making Tomino leave the option open, they actually respected his wishes to make this the final chapter of the Amuro/Char conflict.

    It was only fitting that they kill each other; this was the Hung 7 Gung vs. Au Yeung Fung at Mt. Hua in ROCH moment for them.

    For me, it felt like he did a 360 here. Almost a completely new person. We get to see Char in his tradmark red mecha. He was known as the Red Comet afterall right?
    Yep. In the original GUNDAM, Char went through these mobile suits, all of which were painted red *except* the Zeong:

    MS-06S Officer's Zaku (his signature mobile suit at the beginning of the One Year War, which Char famously used to sink five Federation space warships at the Battle of Loum; it was also with the Zaku that Char first fought Amuro's Gundam)

    MSM-07 Z'Gok (amphibious MS that Char used for various operations on Earth that involved diving into oceans, lakes, and rivers)

    MS-14S Officer's Gelgoog (a prototype of the first Zeon mobile suit to be armed with beam weapons; designed to be a match for the Gundam, and with Char in its cockpit, it quite nearly was)

    MSN-02 Zeong (mobile suit designed for Newtype use; not originally meant for Char, but he used it anyway during the final battle of the One Year War; the Zeong destroyed the Gundam, but was also destroyed; this was Char's only mobile suit during the One Year War not to be painted red)

    In ZETA, his only two regular mobile suits were:

    RMS-099 Rick Dias (Char got the first one, which was painted red; a few more were also painted red, but the default color was black)

    MSN-100 Hyakushiki (painted gold; a far cry from the typical "Red Comet" mobile suits; unlike all of Char's other mobile suits, this one resembled a Gundam more than it did a Zeon mobile suit)

    In CHAR'S COUNTERATTACK, Char used the MSN-04 Sazabi, which is clearly a successor to his old Zaku and Gelgoog mobile suits from the One Year War. It's the most powerful mobile suit he ever piloted, and a return to his Red Comet colors.

    Yeah, Lalah dominates the very final conversations between Amuro and Char at the end.
    Lalah Sun appears in only a few of the later episodes of the original GUNDAM series, and during the last part of the third GUNDAM movie, but despite her relatively limited screen time, she was a character of *immense* importance. Until Lalah came on the scene, the conflict between Amuro and Char wasn't personal. It *became* personal after Lalah was involved.

    Were the final fights in Zeta the high-calibre ones?? Amuro fights Char in CC, but Char lost to Haman. But then u said the Quebeley is more advanced than the HS. Do fans actually speculate who would win between him and Haman's Quebeley? I thought it was common knowledge that Amuro is the best, even in any machine. Besides, Kamille bested both Scirocco and Haman in Zeta.
    The technology gap between the Hyakushiki and mobile suits such as the Quebeley and The O was too great for even Char to overcome. As a Newtype and a pilot, Char could rival Haman or Scirocco, but their mobile suits were much more advanced and powerful than his. The Hyakushiki would be comparable to Wong Chung Yeung's sword (which he gave to Sheun But Yee)...a good sword, no doubt, but the Quebeley and The O were like the Heaven Sword and Dragon Sabre...even if the pilots had comparable skills, the Quebeley and The O were just too much for the Hyakushiki to handle.

    BUT, again, if Char had the Sazabi from CCA, I think he'd have a pretty good chance at beating Haman and Scirocco.

    So how is Char's standing amongst the Newtype Greats? The Newtype Greats that i know of are Amuro, Kamille, Char, Haman, and Scirocco.
    Here's how I would rank the great Newtypes, in terms of power and overall effectiveness.

    Raw Newtype Power

    1. Judau Ashta (main hero of ZZ)
    2. Camille Vidan (main hero of Z)
    3. Haman Karn (main villain of ZZ)
    4. Paptimus Scirocco (main villain of Z)
    5. Amuro Ray (main hero of GUNDAM/CCA)
    6. Char Aznable (main villain of GUNDAM/CCA)

    I would also put Lalah Sun as equal to or more powerful than Amuro, and probably Four Murusame would also be around the level of Camille or Haman. That's just in raw Newtype potential.

    But in terms of actual *effectiveness* (which incorporates skill, talent, experience, and battle smarts as well as Newtype abilities), it goes more like this:

    1. Amuro Ray (by FAR)
    2. Camille Vidan
    3. Haman Karn
    4. Char Aznable
    5. Paptimus Scirocco
    6. Judau Ashta

    So as you can see, although Judau is the most powerful Newtype, in actual combat, he comes in last among these Greats. Judau was just an untrained kid, and he was undisciplined and not really combat-minded like Amuro, Camille, and Char were. Judau was sort of like Cheung Mo Gei...immensely powerful, but didn't have great combat instincts.

    Amuro, on the other hand, was more like Kiu Fung/ROCH Gwok Jing: GREAT combat instincts.

    Yeah the PS3 DW Gundam game got the Quebeley too. One cool feature in this game is that u get to join certain teams if their leader sends u an invitation by chance. So for example, I joined the Titans I'm backing up playboy Scirocco and tagteaming with Jerid on varoius missions. But i think if u join their team, ur standing amongst other groups and pilots aren't so good. Amuro and Kamille probably have a low opinion of me because i joined the Ttians. But its kind of cool that the game gives u option of joining various groups, even the bad ones.
    I like to play Zeon and Titans characters in my PS2 GUNDAM games too. Other than the Gundams, the villains tend to have a more interesting mix of mobile suits. The non-Gundam Federation MS tend to be "boring" mobile suits like the GM and the Nemo.

    Yeah i agree with that. Even in Zeta they made it clear that Amuro was the #1 pilot with his great skills and knowledge (and he wasn't even with a Gundam unit).
    Yep, although if Amuro is fighting against the likes of Haman and Scirocco in space, I think I'd give him *at least* the Gundam MK-II (or the original RX-78 Gundam).

    It took forever for Kamille to dust his a$$. I was having great doubts of Kamille as a pilot because of his inability to beat Jerid during the beginning to middle of the series. I think Kamille only got good near the end.
    Camille fights well enough against other enemies, but he had some kind of mental block when fighting Jerid.

    Great, so there's more Haman action in ZZ.
    Haman is mucho muy sexy in ZZ. If you like dangerous, evil women, Haman is your gal!

    The b*tchy template eh? But I think Haman (based on Zeta) is far less b*tchy than Lee Mok Sau and MJST. Those 2 are the ultimate in b*tchiness. They are b*tch Greats haha.
    Haman is quite b*tchy too, but unlike Lee Mok Sau or Mit Jeut, Haman makes b*tchy look sexy and cool!

    Yeah watching Zeta you don't get the impression that Char is that kind of guy. You definitely see more aspects of his personality in CC (and the original trilogy which i haven't seen yet).
    Char is quite the pimp, although surprisingly, he only ever seems to have one woman at a time.

    Lalah was undoubtedly his true love, however. He never forgave Amuro for killing her (nor did Amuro ever forgive himself).

    Regarding Scirocco, i'm surprised how many chicks love him. They'll even die for him. I don't think any of the JY protagonist commanded such devotion in their devotees.
    Scirocco was one slick dude, but I think it was more than just his personal charm: I swear that he was doing something to those girls on a Newtype level...a mindf*ck, literally.

    She's a little fcuked up. What was Tomino trying to say here? That women must follow their hearts? She betrayed the AEUG and fought against Kamille because she felt she loved Scirocco whom she met only a handful of times?
    Yeah...Reccoa didn't really have any political loyalties or principles. She was just a rebel. She was a rebel against...someone (not sure if it was Federation or Zeon) when she was a teenager during the time of the One Year War. She joined the AEUG because she liked its rebel vibe. Then, after she knew that she couldn't get Char interested in her, she turned to an even BADDER bad boy, Scirocco, but not because she had any sort of ideological sympathy for the Titans. She still hated the Titans, but could not help herself when it came to Scirocco.

    Emma Sheen was Reccoa's complete opposite. Emma was very certain about where she stood morally. Emma was principled and reliable, and integrity and principles were more important than personal relationships. It's fitting that Emma and Reccoa killed each other at the end of ZETA.

    I'm eager for you to explain what exactly happened at the end of CC. I'm a little bit confused.
    The Nu Gundam's Psycho Frame was designed to channel Amuro Ray's Newtype abilities to operate the mobile suit's Psychom weapons systems, but its capacity (like the Zeta's biosensor) was much greater than the original design specifications: when Earth was in dire danger, the Psycho Frame absorbed the willpower of ALL HUMANITY and used it to push the Axis asteroid back into orbit.

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