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Thread: Jiu Yin Zhen Jing vs Jiu Yang Zhen Jing

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    Senior Member goodrick's Avatar
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    Default Jiu Yin Zhen Jing vs Jiu Yang Zhen Jing

    Which martial arts would be more superior and why?

    Would it be possible for a martial artist in Jin Yongs world to master the skills from both books? Or would they like cancel each other and the martial artist would end up with nothing?

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    As an overall package, I like the 9 Yum Jen Ging more because it both builds inner power *and* develops fighting technique. The 9 Yeung Jen Ging is *rumored* to have a slightly better inner power yield, but has NO fighting techniques whatsoever.

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    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
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    9yin has actual fighting techniques as well as inner power cultivation. 9yin focuses on defeating the enemy through techniques, through you need the 9yin inner power methods to use the techniques. the creator of 9yang did not know martial arts, so he created methods to defend against and defeat the opponent using just inner power. e.g. ZSF created wudang's skill on 9yang principles so every move is built on inner power technique, without inner power, effectiveness goes down.
    as for martial theories, their equal to each other.
    THE KYSS OF THE SWORD IS DEADLY BUT EXQUSITE
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    Senior Member forgot password's Avatar
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    as a whole the 9 yin manual has more to offer than the 9 yang one does.
    however the 9 yang internal energy was proven to be of superior quality and usefulness to the 9 yin energy.
    it would be very interesting if the 9 yang energy is used to power 9 Yin external techniques, we would probably see kickass kungfus like 9 Yang White boned claw, Heart burning Palm, etc.

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    Senior Member dracnom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forgot password View Post
    as a whole the 9 yin manual has more to offer than the 9 yang one does.
    however the 9 yang internal energy was proven to be of superior quality and usefulness to the 9 yin energy.
    it would be very interesting if the 9 yang energy is used to power 9 Yin external techniques, we would probably see kickass kungfus like 9 Yang White boned claw, Heart burning Palm, etc.
    I don't think it's possible to base 9 yin external techniques upon 9 yang shen gong, you could learn the techniques, but it would lack whatever that makes it powerful.
    爱是最最奇幻的魔术
    让人都要对它趋之若鹜
    这场魔术都是要结束
    真爱是箭在弦上不认输

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    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
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    once you have mastered the inner power to the highest level, you can use the techniques in 9yin with either 9yin or 9yang inner power because at the highest, the inner power is pure and balanced. but when you are just starting out or just practiced 9yang for a few years only, your inner power may be to yang still to use 9yin techniques.
    THE KYSS OF THE SWORD IS DEADLY BUT EXQUSITE
    he's the strongest in history but he's the disciple.
    http://www.mangafox.com/manga/histor...ciple_kenichi/

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    Senior Member goodrick's Avatar
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    So inner power energy cultivation using Jiu Yin and Jiu Yang wont negate each other?

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    Senior Member forgot password's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dracnom View Post
    I don't think it's possible to base 9 yin external techniques upon 9 yang shen gong, you could learn the techniques, but it would lack whatever that makes it powerful.
    9 yin external techniques are more like standalone techniques that huang shang collected from various sources than specifically self-designed techniques to be used with 9 yin energy, i don't think there'd be any setback if they were to be powered with 9 yang energy. For example, the 7 injuries fist of Kongtong school is possibly comparable to a 9 yin external technique like the Heart crushing palm etc., and the most kickass demonstration of the technique was performed by Zwj with his 9 yang energy and zero Kongtong energy.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    There might possibly be a danger of fire deviation in using 9 Yeung inner power to drive 9 Yum techniques. It might be a surmountable obstacle, but the practitioner would *really* need to know what he/she is doing and be extremely careful.

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    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodrick View Post
    So inner power energy cultivation using Jiu Yin and Jiu Yang wont negate each other?
    Yin and Yang may be opposites but they don't always cancel each other out like negative and positive. The much more likely result would be fire deviation. Of course, 9 Yin isn't actually pure yin internal energy either.

    Even so, ZWJ thought in HSDS that probably only ZSF had the ability (in that time) to successfully reconcile and combine 9 Yin and 9 Yang into a combined method that would be useful.

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    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
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    actually 9yang is supposed to be pure and balanced, it's just because ZWJ was suffering from xuan ming palm that he practiced his 9yang as yang conquering yin. yang was based on 9yin so it shouldn't be a problem. ZWJ neutralized ZZR's 9yin because her 9yin zhen qi was not refined yet and he thought it was the xuan ming energy so he sent his 9yang zhen qi to neutralize it. the inner power portion in the first half of 9yin manual was yin based and necessary for practicing the techniques. likely it was specific inner power practice for each techniques. but the true inner power portion in the back was pure and balanced.
    THE KYSS OF THE SWORD IS DEADLY BUT EXQUSITE
    he's the strongest in history but he's the disciple.
    http://www.mangafox.com/manga/histor...ciple_kenichi/

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    the way I see it, 9yin is assault while 9yang is defense. Based on skillset alone, 9yin would be better because it teaches fighting techniques and inner energy. However, someone with 9yang who already knows fighting techniques can fight on par probably against 9yin inner and its techniques.

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    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by person135 View Post
    the way I see it, 9yin is assault while 9yang is defense. Based on skillset alone, 9yin would be better because it teaches fighting techniques and inner energy. However, someone with 9yang who already knows fighting techniques can fight on par probably against 9yin inner and its techniques.
    it's more accurate to say 9yin is counterattack/negate while 9yang is defense as offense. yin is hidden, sly, cunning while yang is open, straightforward, wise?. Huang shang's aim in creating 9yin was to defeat his many enemies. the skills in 9yin teach you to overcome the many styles of martial arts that existed in wulin. 9yang's creator had the ideal of achieving a perfect balance of yin and yang. with no urge to defeat enemies, the focus was on invincible defense. attack with qi only when attacked.
    THE KYSS OF THE SWORD IS DEADLY BUT EXQUSITE
    he's the strongest in history but he's the disciple.
    http://www.mangafox.com/manga/histor...ciple_kenichi/

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    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    In HSDS, it was said that the internal energy probided by 9 Yang is unmatched by ANY internal energy under heaven.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamer View Post
    In HSDS, it was said that the internal energy probided by 9 Yang is unmatched by ANY internal energy under heaven.
    I think we should take this remark with a few grains (maybe even a few cups) of salt, considering not only 9 Yum Jen Ging, but also...

    1. Bak Ming Sun Gung

    2. Yik Gun Ging

    3. Lung Jeung Bor Yeh Gung

    4. Heavy Iron Sword Technique

    5. Qwai Fa Bo Deen

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    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    Haha of course, we all know Jinyong is prone to using those statements.

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    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
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    it wasn't said how many years the monk took to create 9yang or how he went about it. the author said that 9yang can be considered to possess all the attributes of the different inner power styles. it was created from the yin based techniques related inner power portion of 9yin, and possibly combined with shaolin's yang and hard inner power. at the highest level, shaolin inner power and 9yang inner power are considered equal, as stated by the author. rev yideng stated all inner power methods have the same goal at the end despite differences in the beginning. so if you follow an orthodox method, eventually it compasses all the channels and merideans and forces in the body.
    THE KYSS OF THE SWORD IS DEADLY BUT EXQUSITE
    he's the strongest in history but he's the disciple.
    http://www.mangafox.com/manga/histor...ciple_kenichi/

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    Junior Member ykevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodrick View Post
    Which martial arts would be more superior and why?

    Would it be possible for a martial artist in Jin Yongs world to master the skills from both books? Or would they like cancel each other and the martial artist would end up with nothing?
    I think no. Zhang Wu Ji said it to Zhou Zhi Ruo when she asked him to teach the Heaven-Earth reversal technique. His reason is that his technique follows Yang path, while Zhi Ruo (as disciple of Ermei Sect) has followed the Yin path.

    Only Zhang San Feng, said by Wu Ji, can achieve this : the balance between Yin and Yang

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    Quote Originally Posted by flamer View Post
    In HSDS, it was said that the internal energy probided by 9 Yang is unmatched by ANY internal energy under heaven.
    And then ZZR shows up with 9yin and shocks the wulin.

    And then Yellow Robed beauty shows up with 9yin and shocks ZZR.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hyoyatika View Post
    And then ZZR shows up with 9yin and shocks the wulin.

    And then Yellow Robed beauty shows up with 9yin and shocks ZZR.
    Mostly because 9 Yum White Bone Claws was unlike any other martial art that wulin warriors of the HSDS era had ever seen. It was the strangeness and viciousness of the technique, not profound inner power, that startled the wulin warriors. In terms of inner power, the 9 Yeung Jen Ging is said to be slightly better than the 9 Yum Jen Ging, but 9 Yum Jen Ging offers actual fighting techniques while 9 Yeung Jen Ging does not.

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