JY Main Characters: Swordsmanship Ranking

[Han Solo]

I'm really surprised at the ranking.

Did XF ever exhibited any swordsmanship?

GJ's swordsmanship display in the novels are trivial to his other skills.

I'm surprised that Bi Xie Jian Fa practitioners are not even in the ranking.

And neither are Dugu QB or any of the QZ/ Ancient Tomb disciples.

Han Solo

[Ken Cheng]

I'm surprised that Bi Xie Jian Fa practitioners are not even in the ranking.

And neither are Dugu QB or any of the QZ/ Ancient Tomb disciples.

Which among them are main characters?

[Han Solo]

Which among them are main characters?

XLN, YBQ are main characters? No?

Han Solo

[Ken Cheng]

XLN, YBQ are main characters? No?

Han Solo

No. They are important supporting characters, but each story has only *one* main character.

ROCH's main character was Yeung Gor. Little Dragon Girl was the most important supporting character, but still just a supporting character. It was Yeung Gor's story, not hers.

Ngok But Kwun was the primary villain of SPW, but it wasn't his story. SPW was Ling Wu Chung's story.

[PJ]

No. They are important supporting characters, but each story has only *one* main character.

How about DGSD?

[Ken Cheng]

How about DGSD?

That might be an exception, but when you come down to it, DGSD was *more* Kiu Fung's story than it was Deun Yu's or Hui Juk's. It was Kiu Fung's final fate that defined the climax of DGSD. By that time, Deun Yu and Hui Juk were clearly in supporting roles, and after Kiu Fung died, there was no more story to tell.

[PJ]

That might be an exception, but when you come down to it, DGSD was *more* Kiu Fung's story than it was Deun Yu's or Hui Juk's. It was Kiu Fung's final fate that defined the climax of DGSD. By that time, Deun Yu and Hui Juk were clearly in supporting roles, and after Kiu Fung died, there was no more story to tell.

Actually, if one had to single out one main character for DGSD, I would say it's Duan Yu. The story started with him, and it ended with him. It was also he who connected the other 2 main characters.

Even though Xiao Feng was the star of the last chapter, his story doesn't dominate at other times.

Anyway, in some ways, I see Xuzhu as a repetition of Duan Yu. They have too many similarities.

[Han Solo]

Agreed, DY may be seen as the "main" character in DGSD.

Han Solo

[Patudo]

Linghu Chong, Zhang Wuji and Yang Guo all impress me tremendously. If you remove the inner power element LHC wins out as he has a technique that can be executed without requiring inner power but if you look at those three in terms of the total package they are all pretty amazing. Jin Yong has described LHC and Wuji's techniques in more extended detail and they are both fantastic... but whenever I read the very short passage that describes YG's swordsmanship with the wooden sword I am also mightily impressed.

By this time, when Yang Guo trained in the sea’s waves with the wooden sword in his hand, the wind generated by his sword could repel the waves and the Divine Eagle, with its frightening strength, could last not more than three stances of the wooden sword.

The question is can Wuji's Taiji swordplay handle the overwhelming power + of YG's swordsmanship. My suspicion is probably yes, assuming Wuji's swordsmanship is backed up by Jiuyang energy. I think Wuji most probably edges out Yang Guo as a swordsman (I think in bare-handed combat too but this is wandering off topic). LHC's jian fa should be able to counter YG's techniques, whatever they are, but the combination of enormous inner power and technique is going to be very difficult to handle. I still expect LHC to be able to use dazzlingly brilliant technique to get himself out of trouble...until his inner energy reacts, at which point he's in trouble. LHC right at the end with all his inner power harmonized still, to my mind, probably cannot perform feats like turning back ocean waves with sword wind but as a total package probably exceeds YG based on genius-level technique.

I think WJ vs LHC may very well be dead even. Wuji's Taiji swordsmanship I am convinced exceeds Chongxu's because of the quality of instruction he received (direct from Zhang Sanfeng) and Wuji's own quite incredible ability to master martial art. Don't forget that after defeating the 3 servants of Zhao Min (who IMO seem to be some of the most underrated characters in the whole of HSDS) he received further instruction from Zhang Sanfeng in how to integrate all his skills.

[PJ]

but whenever I read the very short passage that describes YG's swordsmanship with the wooden sword I am also mightily impressed.

By this time, when Yang Guo trained in the sea’s waves with the wooden sword in his hand, the wind generated by his sword could repel the waves and the Divine Eagle, with its frightening strength, could last not more than three stances of the wooden sword.

I'm 95% sure that Xiao Feng, Ouyang Feng, Hong Qigong, Jiumozhi, and other Greats, would be able to replicate Yang Guo's feat of generating immense power with HIS. After all, it's just a display of raw power, which itself is powered by internal energy, which all Greats have. There's hardly any "swordplay" in there.

[CC]

I'm 95% sure that Xiao Feng, Ouyang Feng, Hong Qigong, Jiumozhi, and other Greats, would be able to replicate Yang Guo's feat of generating immense power with HIS. After all, it's just a display of raw power, which itself is powered by internal energy, which all Greats have. There's hardly any "swordplay" in there.

I'd agree on this. That quoted passage about YG _was_ impressive but only from a raw power perspective. Many elite fighters can blow/repel things about with their superior inner power. There is nothing there that shows good swordsmanship. It could well have been palms/staff/sabre/judge pens.

I'm pretty sure Jiumozhi would have been able to do it with just about any implement or bare handed.

[flamer]

Thing with Yang Guo is that when he used HIS, it allowed him to use his non-Great level internal energy against Great level. So I wouldn't completely attribute it to his internal energy.

[Ghaleon]

Undefeated Sword Demon Dugu would clearly be #1 if he was a main character But since we're dealing with main characters, i would give it to the inheritor of his 9 swords style, Lingwu Chong. While Yang Guo's Heavy Sword or Zhang Wuji's Taichi Sword are indeed strong, i don't think they can compare with the ultimate dugu 9 swords.

From wikipedia:

The Nine Swords of Dugu (獨孤九劍)

1.General Index Stance (總訣式) - has variations to implement the General Index Script.

2.Sword-Defeating Stance (破劍式) - used to counter all types of swordplay

3.Sabre-Defeating Stance (破刀式) - used to counter all single-blade weapons such as the broadsword, Willow-Leaf Cutlass, Ghost-Beheading Saber, cleaver and Horse-Cutting Blade.

4.Spear-Defeating Stance (破槍式) - used to counter all pole-arm weapons such as the spear, halberd, Snake Spear, staff, wolf's head cudgel and Monk's spade.

5.Mace-Defeating Stance (破鞭式) - used to counter short weapons such as the steel club, iron mace, acupuncture point-seizing peg, Tonfa, Emei piercers, dagger, war axe, iron plate, octagonal hammer and iron awl.

6.Whip-Defeating Stance (破索式) - used to counter soft weapons such as the whip, three section staff, rope dart, chain whip and fishing net.

7.Palm-Defeating Stance (破掌式) - used to counter unarmed forms of hand-to-hand combat utilising the fists, legs, fingers and palms. The stance includes techniques to overcome boxing and grappling, joint manipulation and acupuncture point seizing technique.

8.Arrow-Defeating Stance (破箭式) - used to defend oneself from missiles and projectiles. To master this stance, the practitioner must first learn the skill of distinguishing the type of the projectile by ear. Upon mastering this stance, the user can not only defend himself from various types of missiles and projectiles targeted at him, but also redirect them back or to other places.

9.Qi-Defeating Stance (破氣式) - used to counter opponents with strong inner energy reserves. The way the stance works is not mentioned clearly in the novel. Fans believe that the practitioner attacks certain parts of an enemy's body to prevent the enemy from using his inner energy.

Jin Yong designed Dugu 9 Swordplay as a technique to defeat all other techniques including powerful inner energy foes. It's the ultimate handbook to defeat any type of enemy. I don't think there's any question as where Dugu 9 Swordplay (and its wielder LHC) should be ranked with regards to swordsmanship. The question is what would happen if we mix inner energy with swordsmanship techniques. Like what would happen if LHC faced off against powerful inner-energy swordsmen like ZWJ and his Taichi Sword or YG and his Heavy Sword. The novel doesn't seem to go into detail on the Qi-Defeating Stance but theoretically u can say argue that it was Jin Yong's intent that a Master of the Dugu 9 Swordplay (with many years of experience) can defeat a powerful inner energy foe with techniques alone. So given the Qi-Defeating Stance, and given that LHC continues to practices the Dugu 9 Swordplay to perfection, I think he'll beat ZWJ and YG.

[flamer]

1) LHC's proficiency of DG9J is not complete, especially not Qi-breaking stance.

2) It's all nice and good written on paper, but DG9J has not proved itself against strong internal foes. LHC was miles away from DFBB, how can you argue he would win against YG/ZWJ?

[Ghaleon]

1) LHC's proficiency of DG9J is not complete, especially not Qi-breaking stance.

2) It's all nice and good written on paper, but DG9J has not proved itself against strong internal foes. LHC was miles away from DFBB, how can you argue he would win against YG/ZWJ?

1) That's why i said he has to continue to practice 9 Swords. Get to FCY's proficiency at least.

2) I think it'll be tough for him which is why he'll need to master all 9 stances, particularly the last one. Jin Yong created the last stance of 9 Swords to provide a loophole for swordsmen fighting against stronger inner energy. It's more about purpose and intent of the author than about actual evidence since Jin Yong didn't even write a fight where it was used. But u can clearly see that Jin Yong's martial arts theme in SOD is to the dilemma of inner energy vs technique. He's obviously making a statement about it by creating the Dugu 9 Swords.

[flamer]

1) FCY's proficiency? That's not high is it? Surely no luck against Great level. So much for defeating all stances.

2) As I said, you can argue author's intent and theory of the swordplay but if there's no evidence, there's really nothing going for it. It is undisputed fact that LHC has no chance against RWX, even less DFBB, all excuses aside. Hence, technique overcoming internal works to a limited degree and certainly no shortcut or miracle weapon in wuxia.

[HuntingX]

So how do we *really* want to do this?

1. Give everyone a sword, and melee it. Only restriction is they *must* use the sword (no palms)
2. Give everyone a sword, and have them compare stances only (like a little demonstration). No touching.
3. Something in the middle?

I think 1 and 2 will have VERY different results

[person135]

Thing with Yang Guo is that when he used HIS, it allowed him to use his non-Great level internal energy against Great level. So I wouldn't completely attribute it to his internal energy.

It would allow anyone with similar prowess to do the same. If the guys PJ named did it, they'd be even more powerful.

[tape]

It would allow anyone with similar prowess to do the same. If the guys PJ named did it, they'd be even more powerful.

It wasn't just the Heavy Iron Sword though, there were actual techniques and ways to release your energy at the most optimal and efficient time in order for his power to be so great.

[kyss of the sword]

if you count pure sword skills and no other factor, then sword god zhao bufan can be considered. LHC and FQY, YG and DGKB, HYS, Yideng, ZWJ and ZSF, DY and MRB should be considered. MRF showed the murong family iron cloud sword play that seems similar in theory to taiji quan. MRF was too low level to show the power of the swordplay but his father should be vastly better. DY's 6MDS may not use an actual sword but it is a sword art that uses sword qi to execute extremly complicated sword moves. JMZ's blazing saber of the invisible flame might qualify if you allow sword qi skills.