Peak Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung vs. peak ROCH Gwok Jing

[PJ]

In the final chapter of LOCH, I don't think Huang Yaoshi went all out on Guo Jing. He didn't even use his most adept skill, the Mighty Snap. It was more of a friendly competition than a real fight, like the time when Xiao Yuanshan contested with a half-dead Xiao Feng for 20 moves without gaining an advantage.

[PJ]

On the issue of decreased stamina, it doesn't act alone. As a product of old age, it happens in parallel with greater abundance of cultivated internal energy, as well as greater purity of internal energy. We have to take all of these attributes into consideration when evaluating one's martial arts level.

[flamer]

Phew let's call it a day. I've got exams coming up and I would love to discuss this further but it seems we've hit the same wall again. Thanks for your contributions

[ChronoReverse]

He didn't necessarily get tired. All it says is this:

The two fought for almost an hour. Zhou Botong was an old man, his vigor had been depleted and his internal energy was no longer the same as it was at the start of the fight. He knew now it would be difficult to get Yang Guo to use a new palm from his ‘An Ren Xiao Hun Zhang’ so he leapt back and begged Yang Guo, “All right! All right! I will kowtow eight times and take you as my master. Master Yang, disciple Zhou Botong kowtows to you!” And he really kowtowed to Yang Guo!

While he's certainly not the same as if he'd just started, this doesn't indicate that ZBT's attacks were less effective but rather his effectiveness cannot increase and will only decrease from that point on meaning it wouldn't make a difference if he continued.

Moreover, we know that it took a full day for GWM to land a decisive blow on C'ien (and GWM was significantly younger than C'ien). Just because initial vigor is lost and internal energy isn't full doesn't mean the attacks are less effective.



Finally, ZBT's true style is Vacuum Fist to nullify the opponent until he gets an opening. Here he was acting against his norm by actively going against YG and expending energy quicker. Therefore, he wouldn't expend energy as quickly in a normal fight. Yet he still lasted an hour.

[tape]

In the final chapter of LOCH, I don't think Huang Yaoshi went all out on Guo Jing. He didn't even use his most adept skill, the Mighty Snap. It was more of a friendly competition than a real fight, like the time when Xiao Yuanshan contested with a half-dead Xiao Feng for 20 moves without gaining an advantage.

It seemed like he was going all out. He seemed to be getting desperate when he realized if he didn't go all out he'd lose, and if I remember right he was using his highest footwork at the least. When he was going all out against the Quan Zhen people, there was no special mention of him using the Mighty Snap. In fact I really don't remember him really using it all that much in LOCH except from long distance doing something really cool like shattering a sword with a piece of turd or something.

Just because Hong Qigong seemed to be going all out with Dragon Palms and even used a 100% power Proud Dragon has no Regrets, I'd assume Huang Yaoshi had the same mentality, or at the very least Hong judged him to have went all out at the end for him to go all out at the end.

[PJ]

I believe it has to do with the nature of the fight. If it's just a friendly contest, people do tend to hold back.

For example, on the Peach Blossom Island, when Hong Qigong and Ouyang Feng fought each other, the description made it seem like they were putting in their best effort, so you might think they were going all out (and very reasonably so). But in the final chapter, Jin Yong revealed they weren't, because they were just competing martial arts, not trying to harm each other. However, they did go all out during the last chapter of LOCH, when it got more personal.

[Athena]

I forgot to mention this about ZCS's assessment earlier. I think ZCS's problem was that he (and his fellow martial arts brothers) never encountered any other Greats (equalling their teacher or people of that tier). Let alone foughty any, at least the Quanzhen Masters saw a few of Greats in action and even fought two. That greatly enhances one's martial arts insight; it opens up the eyes of martial artists.
ZCS' (20 years old) martial arts insight cannot really be compared to the Quanzhen Masters who were around 70 years old, in my opinion.

In the end the WCY debate boils down to the points that I summarized two, three posts back. That's basically everything I can say about it.

To be fair to Jin Yong, I think at least the wuxia martial arts fantasy in his novels is quite consistent. And his things make sense most of the time. There are incidents, which are really stretching it. Furthermore, I've seen those interviews or Jin Yong answering questions from people from the audience in his talks. He's asked some random questions about martial arts levels and he is expected to answer within a few seconds. I don't think good ol' Jin Yong is that much into wuxia martial arts analysis, so he just answers them ad hoc.
I have read Liang Yusheng's 'Guangling Jian' [廣陵劍] a few years ago. That book only seemlingly had powerful Greats and those Greats popped out of nowhere with no foreshadowing. All those Greats' martial arts levels were described to be close or equal to Zhang Danfeng [張丹楓]. (Zhang Danfeng is sort of Dugu Qiubai, Zhang Sanfeng hybrid character, he wasn't the main character of this novel. Zhang Danfeng was the hero of the novel [萍蹤俠影錄]. Zhang, by the time of 'Guangling Jian', had become an old martial arts grand master (Zhang Sanfeng status). He was the teacher of the main character Chen Shixing).
In the end all of those Greats with a splendid introductory description suffered from the Qiu Qianren syndrome. All in all, it was a decent read, but difficult to rank martial artists (if one is into those things). I didn't really like that book too much, the story dragged on a little too much in the end.

Thanks for your nice words and I like reading your posts too, Tape.

[PJ]

He's asked some random questions about martial arts levels and he is expected to answer within a few seconds. I don't think good ol' Jin Yong is that much into wuxia martial arts analysis, so he just answers them ad hoc.

Yes, that's how I see it too. We can't expect Jin Yong's answers to be 100% accurate and thoughtful, when he has to answer them on-the-fly. His answers would be of higher quality if he had more time to think about the questions.

[goodrick]

What sort of questions and answers are we talking about here? Can I read this interview somewhere? I'm hoping it is in English. LOL

[PJ]

What sort of questions and answers are we talking about here? Can I read this interview somewhere? I'm hoping it is in English. LOL

unfortunately, the interview transcript is in Chinese.

but here it is: http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showthre...ight=interview

[PJ]

I'll (roughly) translate a few interesting bits from the Jin Yong interview:

Q: Do you cultivate internal energy in real life?
A: No.

Q: We fans ask you so many stupid/strange/cumbersome questions, do you ever feel frustrated? Please tell us the truth.
A: Not at all. I'm very pleased.

Q: Have you ever been harassed by a fan?
A: Not really. At the most they send me (hate) letters.

Q: Why most of your male protagonists are the "dumb" and "straight forward" type, while many your female characters are intelligent and cunning?
A: My male protagonists may seem dumb on the outside, but they are intelligent on the inside.

Q: Did Yang Guo learn Dugu Swords or not? How is his swordplay?
A: Yang Guo's sword skills are not great, but his internal energy is better than Linghu Chong's.

Q: Was there a Red Flower Society in real life?
A: No.

[my favorite question]
Q: Bao Butong and his daughter Bao Bujing from DGSD, are they related to Bao Xiruo (Yang Kang's mom) from LOCH?
A: Not related, just a coincidence -- but you can also ask Justice Bao (jokingly).

Q: Why all of your male protagonists are of a higher martial arts level than their female partners?
A: I believe women are not as interested in fame as much as men. I do support gender equality, but not when females insist on surpassing males.

Q: In an old edition of DGSD, you wrote that Duan Yu, at the end of the novel, having been further tutored by the monks of Celestial Dragon Monastery, could unleash the power of 6MSJ as his heart desires. Why did you change this in the new edition?
A: That Duan Yu doesn't have full control of 6MSJ--it works sometimes and not other times--is a unique attribute of the character. I prefer to keep it that way.

[my 2nd favorite question]
Q: Between Xiao Feng, Duan Yu, Xuzhu, and the Sweeper Monk, who was the most powerful? That is, all things considered, including their internal energy, external techniques, and so on.
A: Sweeper Monk is the most powerful.

[person135]

if you had mentioned your second most question earlier, we could have prevented the numerous is xuzhu/DY stronger than SM threads.

I didn't know JY was sexist O_O

[Western Eccentric]

Yg can suck Wcy's balls.

In the book Zbt said had Wcy been still alive he would have pwnt Jinlun Fawang in 10 strokes.

Yeahhhh and Guo'er only need 4 strokes to crush Goldie that's mean Guo'er stronger than Wang Chongyang😎😎😎😎

[Ken Cheng]

Yeahhhh and Guo'er only need 4 strokes to crush Goldie that's mean Guo'er stronger than Wang Chongyang😎😎😎😎

More is made of those four strokes than they're actually meant to represent. In the Gu Long universe, Sai Mun Chui Sheut killed Yip Goo Sing with a single stroke of his sword. Nobody in his right mind would claim that SMCS's sword technique was, at that point, miles and miles ahead of YGS's.