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Thread: The Wong Yung Glorification Thread

  1. #1
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default The Wong Yung Glorification Thread

    Yeah, the remarks of the past few days demonstrate that she's badly in need of one.

    This is my crusade: establish glorification threads for characters taking a beating on the forums.

    Of course, this service is not available for *all* characters. Some of them just "aren't cool enough to be invited into Studio 54."

  2. #2
    Senior Member AnhHung's Avatar
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    LOCH HR is one the most memorable characters of all time. She is pretty, smart and fun.

    She lacks the over the top heroisme of her hubby, but makes it up by displaying a wide range of emotions and growth during LOCH.

    In a way, she is a more complex character than GJ. Shame that her reputation in ROCH is dragged in the mud by her ablity to raise GF.
    You do know that it is just fiction, dont you?

  3. #3
    Senior Member goodrick's Avatar
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    I do think Huang Rong is a great character. In fact she is definitely my most favorite female character in the whole DGSD, LOCH, ROCH and HSDS series. And because I like her so much I go hard on her character sometimes. But since this is a glorification thread, I will not point out why I go hard on her from time to time. LOL

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnhHung View Post
    Shame that her reputation in ROCH is dragged in the mud by her ablity to raise GF.
    One of my biggest issues with ROCH is how perfectly (or imperfectly) good characters from LOCH frequently have to take hits to their reputations to glorify the new characters in ROCH.

    Wong Yung and the Cheun Jen Sect suffered the most from this. Not that these characters were flawless saints even in LOCH, but the way they were treated in ROCH leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

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    She is absolutely the best female character of wuxia. She is by far my number one favorite character.

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Just a different point of view, I think. The novel is written through Yang Guo's lens. The same people, same events, may seem different if viewed from another angle.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  7. #7
    Senior Member blueberry's Avatar
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    My favorite female character and together with GJ, is one of my favorite couple in JY's world.

    She's smart, witty, fun, a very good cook, pretty, strong and has a good heart. She also has the guts to go after what she wants or protects what belong to her. She's one independent girl that can survive on her own. I see her sort of an equal to GJ because she can help to give good advices to him (as a wife, as a discussion partner, or maybe even as a war adviser).

    HR & GJ make a good couple, because I think they balance/complete each other.

  8. #8
    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodrick View Post
    Huang Rong is a great character...my most favorite female character...because I like her so much I go hard on her character sometimes...I will not point out why I go hard on her from time to time. LOL
    Lol, sorry I can't help it.

    LOCH HR is very much likeable, she reminds me of ZM, RYY etc. But if ROCH HR is a reminder of how those characters will end up when they hit 30s-40s, then I must point out how XZ will make a better wife.
    Member of HYS fanclub -> click here to join group.

    Member of TC fanclub.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Ren Ying Ying's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    One of my biggest issues with ROCH is how perfectly (or imperfectly) good characters from LOCH frequently have to take hits to their reputations to glorify the new characters in ROCH.

    Wong Yung and the Cheun Jen Sect suffered the most from this. Not that these characters were flawless saints even in LOCH, but the way they were treated in ROCH leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
    actually, when i read ROCH, the only one that got de-glorified was Guo Jing .

    Afterall, Quanzhen was filled with a bunch of brainless taoists even in LOCH (no one was particuarly fond of Qiu Chuji, Yin Zhiping, or any one of them for that matter).

    Huang Rong is like wine, getting better with age. She grew maturity and lost the brattiness while still retaining her cleverness.

    Guo Jing was the only one that not only didn't make improvements, but actually took a step back. Sure, he was thickheaded boy in LOCH, but that was excusable given his young age and lack of worldly experience. But now the 30/40 year old GJ was still equally thickheaded and still looked as if he had just came out of a cave. But not only that, the simplemindedness and stubborness that made him adorable in LOCH has now transformed him into a narrowminded idiot. Sorry Jingjing, but there are things you can get away with as an 18 year old (and maybe even look cute when doing it) but just isn't going to cut it at 40 years old...
    Last edited by Ren Ying Ying; 11-06-09 at 09:12 PM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    Eh, I thought most of Guo Jing's actions were reasonable for the time. When I read stories, I do not judge them by our own standards but by theirs. In fact, if Guo Jing had acted in accordance to our standards, I'd feel the story was weaker.

    Leave Out-Of-Character for fanfiction.



    As an aside, the time GJ spent with YG when GJ was taking him to QZ was a rather touching time. Even YG himself felt it strongly and it would influence him even in the future.

    HR also gets some time like this with YG. She was suspicious of YG (and not without reason) before he was sent to QZ but when he came back and she interacted with him, she formed the intent that she (and GJ) will teach him everything, including their martial arts. Clearly when she realized that YG's heart was pure (unlike his father), she had no problems with giving him the best.
    Last edited by ChronoReverse; 11-06-09 at 09:28 PM.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Ren Ying Ying's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoReverse View Post
    Eh, I thought most of Guo Jing's actions were reasonable for the time. When I read stories, I do not judge them by our own standards but by theirs. In fact, if Guo Jing had acted in accordance to our standards, I'd feel the story was weaker.
    As I wrote before, Huang Rong's character showed evolution of maturity, wisdom, and even character development between LOCH and ROCH without her going out of character. Yet, GJ's character just go smashed into a wall and turned flatter than a pancake. JY pretty much took the stubborn and simpleminded aspect of GJ's character into inflexibility and narrowmindedness, while all other aspects of his characters remained untouched and undeveloped.

    It wasn't really about being "out of character" per say. It's not as if I'm expecting Guo Jing to suddenly act like HYS. However, I felt as if GJ in ROCH was turned into a more extreme & one dimensional version of the GJ in LOCH. It's not so much what he thought but the way he handled the situation. Perhaps it's because he no longer has main character status so we don't get the story from his perpsective, but I feel as if in some of the situations, younger Guo Jing would have been more flexible and open-minded than the way older Guo Jing behaved--which is odd, because you would expected an older, more experienced and wiser person to be less rigid.

    On second thought though, there are those really narrowminded old people around. It's just sad so see GJ go down that path--which is why I think he took a step backwards.
    Last edited by Ren Ying Ying; 11-06-09 at 09:39 PM.

  12. #12
    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    What inflexibility and narrowmindedness? You claim that you're not judging with your own standards but then go and say that of GJ.

    Do we have flexibility when we have a case of a serial murderer? Perhaps we should let them go on account that we ought to be flexible with them. Our standard is that they go to jail at least (if proven guilty).


    The standards of their time are strict. Things that seem not that monumental are, in fact, that serious.

    Master (teacher) and student relationships, even now it's extremely serious when it happens (jobs are lost, parents get into a hullaboo, it's plastered in the news). How much more so back then when the punishment is expected to be the death penalty.

    Your children committing a serious crime that shames the family. The head of the family would certainly have the right to kill a child for that sort of thing (GJ decides to cut off the arm).


    Am I missing something here? What sort of flexibility are you expecting that wouldn't be OOC for GJ and Out-Of-Context for the time period?
    Last edited by ChronoReverse; 11-06-09 at 09:55 PM.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Ren Ying Ying's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoReverse View Post
    The standards of their time are strict. Things that seem not that monumental are, in fact, that serious.

    Master (teacher) and student relationships, even now it's extremely serious when it happens. How much more so back then that the standard would be death penalty.

    Your children committing a serious crime that shames the family. The standard for that is DEATH and GJ decided to take the arm instead.

    Am I missing something here?
    But that is exactly why he is inflexible. It's not as if I expected him to accept YG's relationship with open arms. Certainly Huang Rong was just as shocked and "disgusted", but did she think "death" was a more fitting option for YG? I'm pretty sure there were plenty of other characters in ROCH that took acceptance of Yang Guo's relationship with XLN that didn't think "death" was the most befitting punishment. Sure, those other characters didn't think of Yang Guo as their son, but they sure didn't see Yang Guo as a monster either (outside of Gongsun Zhi & Zhao Zhijing, of course).

    But the biggest question mark I had for Guo Jing was him wanting to chop off Guo Fu's arm in exchange for Yang Guo's arm. Sure, Guo Fu deserves punishment and all, but seriously--chopping off her arm?

  14. #14
    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    Certainly Huang Rong was just as shocked and "disgusted", but did she think "death" was a more fitting option for YG?
    Erm, HR is the daughter of HYS. They're heretical and known to have unique ideas for the time. It's in their character to be that way but nobody else is (or rather, very few others are).

    And you still don't get it, wanting to chop off GF's arm is already lighter than what she deserved in the minds of the people of that time. Furthermore, besides the shaming the family part, what GF did to YG would've left him a cripple (which YG only overcame due to lucky circumstances) and frankly could easily have been murder (dying from bleeding out is certainly easy when your arm is cut off without treatment).


    Ultimately you just can't seem to put yourself into the context of the time after all.
    Last edited by ChronoReverse; 11-06-09 at 10:06 PM.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Ren Ying Ying's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoReverse View Post
    Erm, HR is the daughter of HYS. They're heretical and known to have unique ideas of the time. It's in their character to be that way but nobody else is.

    And you still don't get it, wanting to chop off GF's arm is already lighter than what she deserved in the minds of the people of that time.


    Ultimately you just can't seem to put yourself into the context of the time after all.
    as I mentioned above, other characters that interacted with YG and knew about his relationship with XLN didn't think he deserved "death" either.

    Regardless of what GF actually deserves, it's not an action/reaction many people would have taken given the circumstances (even YG himself was about to go and stop GJ had HR not interfered).

    Just as with he serial killer, different people will have different opinions on the severity of punish that needs to be taken. Reactions always fall between the two extremes in whichever time era we're looking at. It's not about whether he's right or he's wrong, but compared to his peers in ROCH, GJ takes an extreme side (or at least pretty darn close to it).

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    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    as I mentioned above, other characters that interacted with YG and knew about his relationship with XLN didn't think he deserved "death" either.
    Name which ones where they're not related to HYS in some way.

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    Senior Member Ren Ying Ying's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoReverse View Post
    Name which ones where they're not related to HYS in some way.
    name which ones did think he deserved death or even punishment (aside from Zhao Zhijing, Gongsun Zhi & GLFW--they had ulterior motives why)

  18. #18
    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    Why would I need to? The people of that time don't approve of such things (and even nowadays it's pretty bad). If you insist that it's the opposite the burden of proof is on you.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Ren Ying Ying's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoReverse View Post
    Why would I need to? The people of that time don't approve of such things (and even nowadays it's pretty bad). If you insist that it's the opposite the burden of proof is on you.
    it's not my burden of proof because none of the other characters (non-antagonists) in the novel had believed such a severe punishment for YG. in fact, most of them never even expressed disapproval.

    Sure, you can say that most people at the time probably do disapprove, but the argument is that most people would not go into the extremity that GJ does. I'm not saying Guo Jing is WRONG , I'm just saying that his actions were on the extreme side and it was harder for him to take acceptance takes longer than everyone else due to his rigid thinking (afterall, he was no longer strongly disapproving at the end). Still, I was only stating that the way he was written in ROCH made him appear even more extreme as compared to LOCH.
    Last edited by Ren Ying Ying; 11-06-09 at 10:32 PM.

  20. #20
    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    Come now, this is the time period where the "Drowning Pig Pen" comes from. The unique folk we get to interact with might have more radical ideas, but hardly the norm.

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