Using a last name as your first name (given name)

[sniffles]

As for naming sons with the same name. It might just be a family tradition. Or maybe the grandfather was a great man, and his son decided to name his grandson after him in his honour.

It's a way of carrying on the family name, a sort of immortality, if you will.

Of course, sometimes it can go too far. There are people out there with names like Loudon Wainwright III, because he is the third generation to be named Loudon Wainwright. And if he names his son Loudon Wainwright also, then the son will be Loudon Wainwright IV, because English vocabulary doesn't have a word for familial relationships that goes beyond two generations (senior and junior). So we have to start using numerals, and it's traditionally Roman numerals rather than Arabic. I don't know why that last is the tradition, though.

This tradition also only applies to male offspring. If a woman has the same name as her mother, there is no generational term to differentiate the two individuals.

In Feudal Japan, peasants and lower classes didn't have last names, and their names were derived from where they came from.

This was also true in parts of Europe. European surnames came originally from sources such as the individual's occupation: Cartwright, Fletcher, Cooper, Taylor, Fisher, etc.; or from location, or sometimes just from some feature identified to differentiate between two unrelated individuals with the same given name. If one John had brown hair and the other was blond, the brown-haired person might be called John Brown just to indicate which John you were talking about. Eventually these "nicknames" became surnames.

[kidd]

Tom Cruise's full name is Thomas Cruise Mapother IV.

[remember_Cedric]

Besides Indians, Malays and tribal persons in Malaysia do not use surnames too. Malays use "bin" (son of) and "binti" (daughter of), while tribal persons use "anak" (child of).

Hey Yushi, I never know about the "anak" used among the tribal Malays. Now I know. I am more familiar with the Indian's and Malay's systems of sons and daughters, and the "w/o" (Wife of) used among the Indians(?). I'm rather curious about this "w/o" use though, because not all married women in the race uses that. Maybe some just can't bothered to use such systems now?

I find such systems of using "s/o", "d/o", "bin", etc very neat though.

I like the Spanish naming convention, but it does get a bit bulky at times.

Here are some wiki links to start you off, if you haven't looked them up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_name

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surname

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_name

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_...name_etymology

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispano...naming_customs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_name

Thank you, junny.

I find the old naming systems very neat and contains this historical significant meaning behind it.

It's a shame that some are taking names, that is part of your identity, so easy now, IMO.

It's a way of carrying on the family name, a sort of immortality, if you will.

Of course, sometimes it can go too far. There are people out there with names like Loudon Wainwright III, because he is the third generation to be named Loudon Wainwright. And if he names his son Loudon Wainwright also, then the son will be Loudon Wainwright IV, because English vocabulary doesn't have a word for familial relationships that goes beyond two generations (senior and junior). So we have to start using numerals, and it's traditionally Roman numerals rather than Arabic. I don't know why that last is the tradition, though.

This tradition also only applies to male offspring. If a woman has the same name as her mother, there is no generational term to differentiate the two individuals.

This was also true in parts of Europe. European surnames came originally from sources such as the individual's occupation: Cartwright, Fletcher, Cooper, Taylor, Fisher, etc.; or from location, or sometimes just from some feature identified to differentiate between two unrelated individuals with the same given name. If one John had brown hair and the other was blond, the brown-haired person might be called John Brown just to indicate which John you were talking about. Eventually these "nicknames" became surnames.

Thank you, sniffy! You know, I think it is history that inspire me to get such interest in names and its identification. From a person's full name, we can trace back to their ancestor and possible link of ancestory, which is interesting.

Tom Cruise's full name is Thomas Cruise Mapother IV.

Somehow, I'm reminded of Napoleon, the smart shorty, with this name. =O

Tom has a very interesting and unique full name. What could this "Mapother" be linked to? The VI reminds of me the late royalties of England.

[HuangYushi]

Hey Yushi, I never know about the "anak" used among the tribal Malays. Now I know.

There are no "tribal Malays" around here. There are only Malays and tribal peoples (as in indigenous peoples). Tribal peoples are not Malays, ethnically or racially. They have their own ethnicities/races.

I am more familiar with the Indian's and Malay's systems of sons and daughters, and the "w/o" (Wife of) used among the Indians(?). I'm rather curious about this "w/o" use though, because not all married women in the race uses that. Maybe some just can't bothered to use such systems now?

I've not seen "wife of" in use. Do your friends use it?

I find such systems of using "s/o", "d/o", "bin", etc very neat though.

I'm not sure about the "neatness", but it can be a bit troublesome when a person with such a name has to fill up a Chinese/Western-style form that provides separate fields for "surname/lastname" and "name/given name".

Even when people drop the "s/o", "d/o" etc so that their names appear to have surnames, the uninformed will be puzzled: When Muthu Ramasamy's son is called Kumar Muthu, why is "Mr Muthu" the father and not the son? Why is "Mr Ramasamy" the grandfather and not the father?

[remember_Cedric]

There are no "tribal Malays" around here. There are only Malays and tribal peoples (as in indigenous peoples). Tribal peoples are not Malays, ethnically or racially. They have their own ethnicities/races.


I've not seen "wife of" in use. Do your friends use it?

Ok, I mis-readed. Confused by too many text down there.

No, it wasn't my friend. I came across that when I was working in the lawfirm, working on a divorce file (yeah, the names on the marriage cert, then on the title-in-action of the divorce document).

Sorry, if my memory served me, it was written as "a/p" rather than "w/o" but it means "wife of" either in Hindi or Tamil.

I'm not sure about the "neatness", but it can be a bit troublesome when a person with such a name has to fill up a Chinese/Western-style form that provides separate fields for "surname/lastname" and "name/given name".

Even when people drop the "s/o", "d/o" etc so that their names appear to have surnames, the uninformed will be puzzled: When Muthu Ramasamy's son is called Kumar Muthu, why is "Mr Muthu" the father and not the son? Why is "Mr Ramasamy" the grandfather and not the father?

Poor guys. So unfair to them with those form filling.

Well, it rather make sense to me when I read such pattern. I address my boss as Mr. Praveen (his given name), and my ex-boss Mr Paul.

But the trouble comes when there's inconsistency. The inconsistency I meant is, some male Indians wants their family to carry his first name in front of their given name. I meant this:

Father: Rajagopal (given name) Mahendran (family name)
Wife of Rajagopal: Rajagopal (husband's name) Vijaya(wife's given name)
Son of Rajagopal: Rajagopal (father's name) Kumaran (son's given name)

You see the pattern here? The father projects himself as one prideful guy, IMO.

[sniffles]

But the trouble comes when there's inconsistency. The inconsistency I meant is, some male Indians wants their family to carry his first name in front of their given name. I meant this:

Father: Rajagopal (given name) Mahendran (family name)
Wife of Rajagopal: Rajagopal (husband's name) Vijaya(wife's given name)
Son of Rajagopal: Rajagopal (father's name) Kumaran (son's given name)

You see the pattern here? The father projects himself as one prideful guy, IMO.

That isn't any different than it is in the West, except that Westerners put the personal name first followed by the surname. But the wife traditionally takes the husband's surname upon marriage (although that's becoming less common), and the children are usually given the father's surname, too.

Thomas Cruise Mapother IV would be the fourth generation of his family named Thomas Cruise Mapother. It has to be immediately consecutive generations, too. He wouldn't be called IV if the last Thomas Cruise Mapother in his family was born 100 years ago. And the numeral can be a legal part of his name, not just a title.

[kidd]

Ok, I mis-readed. Confused by too many text down there.

No, it wasn't my friend. I came across that when I was working in the lawfirm, working on a divorce file (yeah, the names on the marriage cert, then on the title-in-action of the divorce document).

Sorry, if my memory served me, it was written as "a/p" rather than "w/o" but it means "wife of" either in Hindi or Tamil.

In Malaysia 'a/p' stands for 'anak perempuan'. 'Anak perempuan' means 'daughter' in Malay.

Some Malaysian Indians use 'a/p' and 'a/l' instead of 'd/o' and 's/o'. 'a/l' stands for 'anak lelaki'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Indian_name

[remember_Cedric]

In Malaysia 'a/p' stands for 'anak perempuan'. 'Anak perempuan' means 'daughter' in Malay.

Some Malaysian Indians use 'a/p' and 'a/l' instead of 'd/o' and 's/o'. 'a/l' stands for 'anak lelaki'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Indian_name

is it? i must have got the wording wrong or something.

thanks for the link. i'll check it when i have time.

[Guo Xiang ( :]

One of my best friend's name is Allen, but me, my friend, and our English teachers (7th and 8th grade) call him by his last name (Parker). He doesn't mind as long as we're the only one's that call him that.

Two of my classmates and I call eachother by our last names because they all rhyme.