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Thread: The Gwok Fu Glorification Thread

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    Exactly. It's because his victim is a goddess of beauty.
    That shouldn't make a difference. Why should rape be more vile when the victim is more attractive. It's not like she did anything.

  2. #22
    Senior Member jiang bao's Avatar
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    Would be funny if these “glorification” threads were spoofs… but they don’t seem to be… so…

    Well, to each his own, I guess.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member Linda's Avatar
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    late to the thread, but as i was reading ROCH again, I once again felt that Kwok Fu wasn't as bad as people 'feel' she is.

    I mean yes she did chop of YG's arm, (but i really do believe if she didn't the self-absorbed i'm-so'great YG wouldn't have made up his mind and decided to leave the world behind and go off with XLN), she was also a 16 year old who has always been praised and loved, not to mentioned no one had ever raised a hand to her.

    YG in his state of anger hit her and that raised her fury, and in a blinding rage she retaliated. She did partly want to cause him harm but I don't think her intention was to kill. I know she did justify her 'killing of him' to herself but once it did happen, she was just as shocked.

    Besides that one 'wrong' incident and being a sometimes *****, she was not always a ***** throughout the book, and she like everyone else found YG and XLN's relationship wrong but did not outright say anything.

    And she did eventually repented and grew up to be a much more calm person who was by all accounts a decent person.

    I dare to say I like her more then her saintly sister. In fact, I don't think i have ever disliked Kwok Fu, but partly to my first impression of her from the 95 TVB version.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda View Post
    late to the thread, but as i was reading ROCH again, I once again felt that Kwok Fu wasn't as bad as people 'feel' she is.

    I mean yes she did chop of YG's arm, (but i really do believe if she didn't the self-absorbed i'm-so'great YG wouldn't have made up his mind and decided to leave the world behind and go off with XLN), she was also a 16 year old who has always been praised and loved, not to mentioned no one had ever raised a hand to her.

    YG in his state of anger hit her and that raised her fury, and in a blinding rage she retaliated. She did partly want to cause him harm but I don't think her intention was to kill. I know she did justify her 'killing of him' to herself but once it did happen, she was just as shocked.

    Besides that one 'wrong' incident and being a sometimes *****, she was not always a ***** throughout the book, and she like everyone else found YG and XLN's relationship wrong but did not outright say anything.

    And she did eventually repented and grew up to be a much more calm person who was by all accounts a decent person.

    I dare to say I like her more then her saintly sister. In fact, I don't think i have ever disliked Kwok Fu, but partly to my first impression of her from the 95 TVB version.
    Whether she cut off YG's arm or not would not make a difference in my opinion of her. I don't hate her cuz she cut off YG's arm. That's just one manifestation of what she is.

    She's just a super annoying, careless, ignorant, selfish, and unreasonable person. And I only wish she could die a thousand deaths by 1000 different ways.

    Not surprisingly, she's the kind of person I hate the most in real life.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member Trinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiang bao View Post
    Whether she cut off YG's arm or not would not make a difference in my opinion of her. I don't hate her cuz she cut off YG's arm. That's just one manifestation of what she is.

    She's just a super annoying, careless, ignorant, selfish, and unreasonable person. And I only wish she could die a thousand deaths by 1000 different ways.

    Not surprisingly, she's the kind of person I hate the most in real life.
    I totally agree with you, but the only thing that I don't really agree with is that she cut off YG's arm. In my opinion, that makes her a horrible person. She did such an evil thing and did not feel any remorse for it. I think if there were such a person like that in real life, I would hate her too... Actually, one of my friend's husband's sister in law is similar to Kwok Fu and we all hate her....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banh Mi View Post
    That shouldn't make a difference. Why should rape be more vile when the victim is more attractive. It's not like she did anything.
    Totally agree with you!! Why does it make a difference whether someone is attractive or not?? Rape is rape....
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinie View Post
    I totally agree with you, but the only thing that I don't really agree with is that she cut off YG's arm. In my opinion, that makes her a horrible person. She did such an evil thing and did not feel any remorse for it. I think if there were such a person like that in real life, I would hate her too... Actually, one of my friend's husband's sister in law is similar to Kwok Fu and we all hate her....
    It wasn’t a premeditated act. The act is just a symptom of her impulsive and unreasonable nature. Anyway, she’s the second most annoying character (next to Chen Jia Luo of Book and the Sword) yet she survives the story. Would have been a sweet ending to have her die at the end of ROCH.
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  8. #28
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    Excuse me, but isn't this the Gwok Fu GLORIFICATION Thread? As absurd as the idea might seem, isn't that the title and purpose of this thread? Why are people discussing how much they hate her and wishing death upon her like in all the other Gwok Fu-related threads?

    I see it's going to be a long time before we all get this Glorification/Anti-Glorification thing worked out right.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Linda's Avatar
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    Its still a matter of opinion, I see her as a child who was not raised right by her parents, too spoilt and self involved, had Kwok Seung been raised the same way, who said she wouldn't have turned out the same?

    People tend to forget she's nothing more then a child, which makes her no different from a lot of the bratty, selfish 16 year olds now days.

    I did find her annoying in all versions of ROCH except 95, but I had never found her annoying in the novel, she was self centred, but she was not evil, nor was she an all out ***** who knew nothing but herself. Ofcourse, like any brat, she justified her mistakes and felt she was in the right.

    I do remember different incidents from the novel where I thought she was quite a decent person, as compared to the Wu brothers, who wished death on YG almost every time they see him.

    Minus the ending, where I felt she was quite a nice person, she disliked YG still but that's only to be understood, he's appearance in her life did more harm then good.
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  10. #30
    Senior Member jiang bao's Avatar
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    I disagree that YG’s appearance in her life did more harm than good. She’d be long dead if it wasn’t for him. She was mad at him cuz he was better than her at everything and he didn’t suck up to her like the two bros.
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda View Post
    Its still a matter of opinion, I see her as a child who was not raised right by her parents, too spoilt and self involved, had Kwok Seung been raised the same way, who said she wouldn't have turned out the same?

    People tend to forget she's nothing more then a child, which makes her no different from a lot of the bratty, selfish 16 year olds now days.

    I did find her annoying in all versions of ROCH except 95, but I had never found her annoying in the novel, she was self centred, but she was not evil, nor was she an all out ***** who knew nothing but herself. Ofcourse, like any brat, she justified her mistakes and felt she was in the right.

    I do remember different incidents from the novel where I thought she was quite a decent person, as compared to the Wu brothers, who wished death on YG almost every time they see him.

    Minus the ending, where I felt she was quite a nice person, she disliked YG still but that's only to be understood, he's appearance in her life did more harm then good.
    I don't really agree with you.. But then I guess it is a nature versus nurture type of argument. Guo Xiang is her sister and is raised by the same parents you know so it was not like she was someone else's kid. I think Guo Xiang is also naturally a nicer person, therefore, even IF she was raised like Guo Fu, I highly doubt that she would have turned out the same way that Guo Fu did.

    For example, look at Xiao Yu Er... He was raised in E Ren Gu and he turned out fine. He was mischievious and all but besides that, he was a good person....

    You mentioned that Guo Fu justified her mistakes, how did she do that??? Can you give me some examples???Also comparing Guo Fu to the Wu brothers does not say much....

    I also agree with Jiang Bao that his appearance in her life did way more good for her than harm. I think you forgot all of the times that he saved her butt or else she would have been dead years ago. I think she only hates him because she is jealous of him and XLN. She could not have him and has lost to XLN.
    Last edited by Trinie; 12-30-09 at 11:23 PM.
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  12. #32
    Senior Member Guo Xiang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinie View Post
    I don't really agree with you.. But then I guess it is a nature versus nurture type of argument. Guo Xiang is her sister and is raised by the same parents you know so it was not like she was someone else's kid. I think Guo Xiang is also naturally a nicer person, therefore, even IF she was raised like Guo Fu, I highly doubt that she would have turned out the same way that Guo Fu did.

    For example, look at Xiao Yu Er... He was raised in E Ren Gu and he turned out fine. He was mischievious and all but besides that, he was a good person....

    You mentioned that Guo Fu justified her mistakes, how did she do that??? Can you give me some examples???Also comparing Guo Fu to the Wu brothers does not say much....

    I also agree with Jiang Bao that his appearance in her life did way more good for her than harm. I think you forgot all of the times that he saved her butt or else she would have been dead years ago. I think she only hates him because she is jealous of him and XLN. She could not have him and has lost to XLN.
    I think personality tends to be a wildcard... the only thing different from birth is the intelligence.

    By the time Guo Xiang was born, Guo Jing and Huang Rong already had parenting experience (as compared with their zero experience when they had Guo Fu, their firstborn), knew what went wrong with Guo Fu and learnt from their mistakes.

    If I remember correctly, after the whole Guo Fu-brattiness headache, Guo Jing and Huang Rong were stricter with Guo Xiang and Guo Polu to ensure they don't commit the same mistakes... producing the second and third Guo Fu.

    So there was actually a difference of treatment and parental methods, which may have been pivotal in Guo Xiang and Guo Polu's character development.
    Last edited by Guo Xiang; 01-08-10 at 12:19 AM.
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  13. #33
    Senior Member Linda's Avatar
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    Ah someone who understands what i mean...

    I don't dislike Guo Xiang but i do believe had she been raised the same way as Guo Fu, she wouldn't have turned out the way she did. I found the major difference between the two sisters was a matter of pride. Guo Fu had always been prideful and had a dislike for anything 'below her status', which to her is almost everyone.

    Guo Xiang was a more humble person and given that fact she didn't have her virtues sang to her every day, she did not develop the same inane sense of self worth.

    But this type of argument is too subjective, its like arguing if we were born good or evil or were we born with a clean slate. It’s a matter of belief and will be a never ending argument. So I’ll drop this matter.

    As for:
    "For example, look at Xiao Yu Er... He was raised in E Ren Gu and he turned out fine. He was mischievious and all but besides that, he was a good person...."

    First off, i don't remember Xiao Yu Er being a self sacrificing hero either, and neither do I see the people in E Ren Gu as being evil, they were weird but I don’t recall them doing much evil deeds. Had Xiao Yu Er have to fight and kill to survive in the years he spent there, it would have made him a different person.

    “You mentioned that Guo Fu justified her mistakes, how did she do that??? Can you give me some examples???Also comparing Guo Fu to the Wu brothers does not say much....”

    Most memorable would be when she chopped YG’s arm off, she justified herself by convincing herself that since YG and XLN had taken her sister to swap for YG’s medicine she was in her right to avenge her sister’s death. That doesn’t make her deeds any less wrong, but I was just pointing out her behavior.

    AS for the Wu brothers, I mentioned them because I felt they receive less hate then she does when I found them very despicable and couldn’t believe it when they nabbed those two nice girls. I felt it was more on the author’s side to pair off remaining girls that does not have a “deep relationship” with YG. What a waste!

    “I also agree with Jiang Bao that his appearance in her life did way more good for her than harm. I think you forgot all of the times that he saved her butt or else she would have been dead years ago. I think she only hates him because she is jealous of him and XLN. She could not have him and has lost to XLN.”

    I may have not been clear on my point, (I was at work…trying to hide from my boss ^_^), what I meant was that from her point of view, her life was ruined because of YG.

    Take things from her perspective, without the prejudice, she was an only child, well loved and had everyone around her telling her how good she was, then one day, her parents bring home a dirty little beggar boy, and instead of teaching her, her mother gave the boy special treatment and taught him herself, while she was taught by her father with the Wu brothers.

    YG never ‘sucked up to her’ but he was also never polite to her, YG at this stage was a very lost child and was like a wild animal, he treated everyone with disrespect and distrust, I can argue this point till I turn blue, no matter how many times I read the novel I still found him a rude kid. He was also very proud, something that stayed with him until he got his arm chopped off.

    So we have GF who is used to being treated nicely and YG a beggar boy who was in she else’s pretty worthless as he couldn’t do anything, treating her with disrespect, instant dislike.

    So YG leaves and they don’t see each other again until years later, the first time they met again, YG recognizes her but she doesn’t take notice of him since he was wearing an ugly mask and supposedly had a thing for his master.

    Next time they meet is at the Hero’s Feast and she treats him nicely, believing him to have no kung fu, she even tried helping him, at this stage I believe she did like him a bit as he was handsome and almost kind to her, although inside he was laughing. JERK!

    During the Hero’s Feast YG and XLN appeared, I do not remember any verse in the novel that stated GF was jealous of XLN’s beauty, nor of her jealousy at YG’s and XLN’s relationship. Actually, come to think of it, I don’t remember there being any mention of her liking him.

    GJ did proposed marriage and she wasn’t against it as YG was handsome, kind (if only she knew better), and currently, after defeating the priest, a hero. YG however rejected the proposal and XLN declared their relationship, to GF at this stage, not only was their relationship incestuous, but they had also publicly humiliated her.

    The next time they meet, YG and XLN saved her and her mother and the Wu brothers, she did feel grateful to them and did not say anything about their relationship, she told the Wu brothers to shut their traps.

    The next time they meet he saved them again, and although YG was hurt this time, she could not take care of him because her mother was hurt as well.

    Fast forward a lot of chapters, they meet again when YG and XLN arrived to help defend the city, GF was not rude to them, she treated them with politeness as she would have to all guest, during their stay, YG saved her father, and she was grateful to him and treated him nicely.

    When the Wu brothers fought and he told them he was engaged to GF and how close they were and how HR had taught him the beggar sect’s martial arts secretly and they told her that, in this era, saying he was engaged to her and they had a close relationship, is akin to saying they were almost like lovers. Not to mention he had also tainted her mother’s name.

    During this time, XLN also took the baby away and the pair of them lost her sister, then XLN goes to her and tells her to help take her sister to Passionless Valley to get the antidote and to be happy with YG, then she hears about XLN’s sexual encounter, you have to understand at this stage, GF did not know it was rape, from what she could make out of the conversation, XLN and the priest slept with each other and XLN was not ashamed to admit it. Given the era, she felt disgusted at the act and especially to someone like XLN who has a loving relationship to her pupil sleeps in the same room with him.

    So it all boils down to the night she chops of YG’s arm, the Wu brothers and their father had been wishing her a happy life with YG, her sister disappeared, and everybody is treating YG as the hero while to her he has been tarnishing her name and virtue.

    They had an argument, namely YG apologizing and saying it was not ill intended and he was just trying to stop the Wu brothers from fighting, he however did forbid them to see GF again if he beat them and so they kept their promise. GF grew up with the Wu brothers, and although she did not love them, she did have feelings for them as well as they are childhood friends, she was understandably pissed off.

    She goes on to repeat XLN’s words and he accuses her of lying and stealing the sword, in retaliation she mocked XLN’s sexual behavior and YG slapped her and accused her of lying. GF retaliated and fought him back, YG is much stronger then her in martial arts and had blocked her stance twice, in the third stance she was able to knock his sword away by then she was too angry to stop and cut off his arm.

    She knew right away she had made a mistake and was unable to cope with the situation, she ran for help and got GJ, YG had already left by then, and fearing GJ she was forced to leave home and hide out. Once she did return, GJ wanted to chop her arm off to pay for YG, her mother saved her and once again she was force to flee. Her mother managed to almost save GX but then YG stole her and even taunted it in front of GF.

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  14. #34
    Senior Member jiang bao's Avatar
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    The arm chopping incident was a headbutting of two hotheads. The difference is that YG still could constrain himself while GF could not.

    Yes, so people might point to that one incident as the highlight of why she's hated, but to me it's the entire package.

    JY even describes her internal thoughts in the novel, and it's clear that she has no capacity for remorse. When you say from HER perspective, YG did her life bad, that might be true from her perspective, but that's one of the main problem with her character. She is totally incapable of viewing a situation from another person's perspective, making her completely despicable.

    I know people in my life like that, some in my family, and it's HORRIBLE. You just want to strangle them because they create so much tension in the family. They create mountains out of molehills and distort reality.
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    Whilst I can't say I'll like a person like GF, and indeed, if I have a friend with her personality, I might end up *****ing behind her back (Lord forgive me for such ill intentions)

    But her actions are pretty much true to her personality~

    One problem being, she's really not very 'bright in the head' and then given parents who are respected, she had a very high standard to hold against, and the poor girl is probably suffering from a low self-esteem, that she tried to hide in her brattiness. She had to inherit her mommy's pride and her daddy's intelligence.

    As for the priest who raped XLN, the vehemence that one of the previous poster's view was quite extreme. And true, maybe he would be more popular if his victim was GF and not XLN. But a rapist is a rapist no matter whom he rapes, his victim could be an ugly person and it makes his crime no less vile.

    His mistake came from the moment where he loses himself and given into temptation. His redeeming factor was that he was genuinely remorseful; and in life, we all make mistakes. Sometimes, our mistakes are griveously
    heinous, which resulted in hurting so many people, or distroying lifes. But when one repents, genuinely repented, one is almost always more faithful to lead a better life than those who do not see the errors of their lives. He who repents learn to avoid and battle against sinful acts unlike one who indulge in minor 'mistakes' and failed to ever correct them, and led the whole life in this manner. The price of the permanent injury of another seemed too much a price to pay in the formation of making a person living more closely to holiness, but 'demanding' vengeance and having the strong urge to INJURE just because they did wrong, will cause one to lead a life further from simple purity.

    XLN had a very good formula to living a simplistic life. Actually she's one of my favorite characters, and even her rape doesnt really taint her spiritual purity. GF was too bothered by the 'noises' around her, so she was easily led, goaded, enraged etc. XLN didn't care what anybody else says, and did things she believed, should be done. She may not be wise in some of her choice of action ~ but in her simplistic innocent understanding, she did her best.

    GF was a victim of her own ego, but she did overcame that and repented later on in life. I guess there is hope when people knew they were wrong. It's a first sign of humility, to admit your mistakes.

  16. #36
    Senior Member jiang bao's Avatar
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    No she didn’t repent. I love how some of you guys just assume that she’s a different person simply from that one act at the end. It’s just a spurt of the moment where she had to bury her ego temporarily to save her husband’s behind. We clearly see that she was the same byatch 16 years later prior to that ONE SINGLE incident under extraordinary circumstances. During normal times, she was still snooty toward others and jealous of her own sis.

    I’ll believe it if I see more evidence. Based on what’s available in ROCH, that one moment of not being a byatch does not mean she has changed for the better. Knowing GF, after her hubby is safe and she sees and hears people kissing YG and XLN’s butts, she’ll be all jealous and resentful again.

    AND, GX’s mention of her sis as being difficult in HSDS when she suggested to the young Z3F to seek shelter with her family strongly suggests that GF was the same person.
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    Senior Member Guo Xiang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiang bao View Post
    No she didn’t repent. I love how some of you guys just assume that she’s a different person simply from that one act at the end. It’s just a spurt of the moment where she had to bury her ego temporarily to save her husband’s behind. We clearly see that she was the same byatch 16 years later prior to that ONE SINGLE incident under extraordinary circumstances. During normal times, she was still snooty toward others and jealous of her own sis.

    I’ll believe it if I see more evidence. Based on what’s available in ROCH, that one moment of not being a byatch does not mean she has changed for the better. Knowing GF, after her hubby is safe and she sees and hears people kissing YG and XLN’s butts, she’ll be all jealous and resentful again.

    AND, GX’s mention of her sis as being difficult in HSDS when she suggested to the young Z3F to seek shelter with her family strongly suggests that GF was the same person.
    If I remember correctly, GX left home not long after the Huashan event, and was outside for quite some time without returning home.

    Therefore, it is likely her impression of GF had was the same one she had of three years (?) ago, because if GF changed, she wouldn't have known since she had not gone home since.

    You are basing everything on what is likely to be outdated information - 50% chances are that GF had changed for the better but you'd rather lop off your head than to even stick a finger on that 50%, right?
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    Senior Member jiang bao's Avatar
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    You are knocking me because you think I am basing my opinion on “outdated information”? How bout you basing your opinion on NO information?? Laughable double standard you are operating on there. How do you know the chances are “50-50”? Based on what? It’s ok if you jump to conclusions based on nothing, and it’s not ok if I use 30+ years of her life prior to that one incident and her sister’s opinion later on as support?

    Although GX had been away from home for a while, she did not leave her family immediately. They were even on the trip to Huashan together at the end of ROCH. And she would have stayed with her family at XY for a while before leaving to look for YG and XLN. She would have known if GF had truly changed or not.
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    i aint sure what got jiang bao so worked up, but it could have been possible that in the last moments of her life she repented, and finally did something right. There is probably some humanity left in her, if she is willing to save anyone's butt apart from her own.

    So my views could have been based on an assumption, but so is jiang bao's. The difference is, Guo Xiang and myself is willing to explore the possibility that time and age will change a person (which is actually a more realistic aprpoach to human personality, hardly anyone remained the same as time passes) whereas jiang bao was dead insistent that Guo Fu remained exactly the same (he could be right, though that would have implied that Guo Fu is a one-dimensional person, flat as a cardboard. Since this IS a story, it is not impossible, but if we are willing to explore a personality, we have to keep in mind even the 'least of the people' is never one-dimensional)

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    Senior Member Guo Xiang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiang bao View Post

    Although GX had been away from home for a while, she did not leave her family immediately. They were even on the trip to Huashan together at the end of ROCH. And she would have stayed with her family at XY for a while before leaving to look for YG and XLN. She would have known if GF had truly changed or not.
    Yes? You just made one U-turn going back to my post.

    GX left home not long after the Huashan event, and was outside for quite some time without returning home.

    Therefore, it is likely her impression of GF had was the same one she had of three years (?) ago, because if GF changed, she wouldn't have known since she had not gone home since.
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