Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 45

Thread: ...wuxia characters that don't get any love...

  1. #1
    Senior Member Cesare's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Czech Republic
    Posts
    703

    Wink ...wuxia characters that don't get any love...

    a) Do you happen to like a character who's pretty much universally disliked in the 'fandom'? Or do you merely think that this or that girl or guy gets more bashing/more bad rep than they deserve? Or do you think they're bashed for wrong reasons?

    b) Wanted to reply to this...;-)...:
    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    That stinking taoist deserves to be chained then slice him a thousand time then pepper spray him, then let him cure, then repeat the process all over again and again until he dies of old age. At the mean time, YG should track down his entire family and kidnap them then torture them to death in front of his eyes. He is one of the most hated guy in wuxia universe. He is 1000 times worse than Zhao Zhi Kin.
    Poor Zhen Zhibing (or Yin Zhiping if you prefer)...

    Now, seriously - I really fail to understand why this particular character is hated with so much passion. He does 2 things horribly wrong - he defiles XLN and takes too damn long to gather up the courage to directly face the consequences; but he does repent and he does pay the ultimate price in the end (and is overall actually a fairly nice guy). There are far worse bastards in ROCH, let alone in wuxia.

    I see why he doesn't have a crowd of fans (unless a hot hunk plays the role, that is) - but why all the bashing?
    Is it because he's weak rather than evil to the core - given that weakness is not exactly cool compared to badassness? Or because his inappropriate conduct complicates the boring central romance enough to make it mildly interesting?
    别想把黑暗放在我的面前
    太阳已经生长在我心底
    不再有封闭的畏惧
    奔腾的灵魂飞上天际
    太阳 我在这里

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    4 seasons in 1 day
    Posts
    1,138

    Default

    I generally don't like Guo Jing that much, but I give him props when he wanted to hack off his daughter's arm.

    I know people generally feel the reverse about this, they like him, but disagree with that notion.

    I respect the guy for sticking to his guns when it's tough. If you only stick to a principle when it's easy to follow then what good are you? If you expect honour of everyone by give in when it's your loved ones, then you're just a hypocite.
    It's when you stick to your values even though it's hard and you might have more reasons not to, that's commendable.

  3. #3
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    22,824

    Default

    Yau Chui Gei. Historically, Yau Chui Gei was known as a great Taoist sage and was even something of a historian (at least in regards to Genghis Khan's exploits). He's revered among Taoists as a wise man.

    But Jin Yong took a hatchet job to his reputation in L/ROCH...or at least wrote him in a way in which readers would focus on his weaknesses rather than his strengths.

  4. #4
    Senior Member forgot password's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    449

    Default

    i am a big fan of:
    yin zhiping
    guo fu
    mie jue
    ah zi
    madam ma

  5. #5
    Senior Member Cesare's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Czech Republic
    Posts
    703

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Banh Mi View Post
    I generally don't like Guo Jing that much, but I give him props when he wanted to hack off his daughter's arm.

    I know people generally feel the reverse about this, they like him, but disagree with that notion.

    I respect the guy for sticking to his guns when it's tough. If you only stick to a principle when it's easy to follow then what good are you? If you expect honour of everyone by give in when it's your loved ones, then you're just a hypocite.
    It's when you stick to your values even though it's hard and you might have more reasons not to, that's commendable.
    This has been my sentiment regarding Guo Jing as well. Unlike you, I do like him quite a lot, actually - but it's the way he firmly sticks to his principles that makes me appreciate him even more.
    I'm of a totally different mindset - but GJ's integrity is an admirable trait.
    别想把黑暗放在我的面前
    太阳已经生长在我心底
    不再有封闭的畏惧
    奔腾的灵魂飞上天际
    太阳 我在这里

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    4 seasons in 1 day
    Posts
    1,138

    Default

    I just don't like him as much because Xiao Feng's character strikes me alot more than Guo Jing does.

    There are 2 vague types of protagonists that I recognise in Jin Yong characterization. The straight forward, gung ho, harsh, strict, hardass hero type. And the cunning, smart, witty, playful, carefree prankster type.

    In the first category I like Xiao Feng every which way more than Guo Jing. The word badass was instantaneusly spawned in the English language to describe him, and he doesn't beat around the bush as much as Guo Jing does. He just strikes that side of me more.

    Then for the care free type, I like LHX, he has his bouts of emo but for the most part he's chillax like ice cream.

    So I'm pretty unfair when it comes to characters. Xiao Feng in my eyes makes Guo Jing look like a lost preschooler. He's a likable character in his own right, but he just doesn't size up.

  7. #7
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    18,381

    Default

    Yin Zhiping (2nd edition; haven't read about Zhen Zhibing yet). Nowhere nearly as evil as that douche bag Zhao Zhijing. People are often too caught up with his one mistake, overlooking that he genuinely repented and eventually sacrificed his life for his victim. Like Xiao Longnu, I, too, would have forgiven him after his repentance and sacrifice.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  8. #8
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    18,381

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Banh Mi View Post
    I just don't like him as much because Xiao Feng's character strikes me alot more than Guo Jing does.

    There are 2 vague types of protagonists that I recognise in Jin Yong characterization. The straight forward, gung ho, harsh, strict, hardass hero type. And the cunning, smart, witty, playful, carefree prankster type.

    In the first category I like Xiao Feng every which way more than Guo Jing. The word badass was instantaneusly spawned in the English language to describe him, and he doesn't beat around the bush as much as Guo Jing does. He just strikes that side of me more.

    Then for the care free type, I like LHX, he has his bouts of emo but for the most part he's chillax like ice cream.

    So I'm pretty unfair when it comes to characters. Xiao Feng in my eyes makes Guo Jing look like a lost preschooler. He's a likable character in his own right, but he just doesn't size up.
    For the first 30 years of his life, Xiao Feng was the perfect strong protagonist. He was like Guo Jing without the latter's flaws. Which inevitably made him a little boring: He always overcame stronger foes, came up through the ranks quickly, and had no major obstacles in life. Everything went too smooth, too perfect. When his trouble began, that's when he became more human, where in the process he experienced his first love and the pain of losing it, universal rejection and hate towards him, and mostly importantly, by being on the other side, he understood the value of universal peace and compassion. He was the first Jin Yong protagonist to see the light.

    Ironically, when Xiao Feng was young, when he was Mr. Perfect and Mr. Robot at the same time, that's when he was the most trouble-free. When he became more human, when his character began to blossom, he experienced the inevitable pitfalls of human life, as all humans do, that's when he suffered the most. And yet, without the suffering, he could not have gained his wisdom that was beyond his time which few in his time could understand. Most importantly, he did not stop once the wisdom was upon him; he used it to save the lives of thousands, even giving up his most precious resource in doing so. In the end, Xiao Feng = Enlightenment + Courage + Compassion = Real Impact.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  9. #9
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    22,824

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    Yin Zhiping (2nd edition; haven't read about Zhen Zhibing yet). Nowhere nearly as evil as that douche bag Zhao Zhijing. People are often too caught up with his one mistake, overlooking that he genuinely repented and eventually sacrificed his life for his victim. Like Xiao Longnu, I, too, would have forgiven him after his repentance and sacrifice.
    Also, people forget that pre-Little Dragon Girl, Wan Tze Ping was rather exemplary as an honorable and competent third generation Cheun Jen Sect disciple. Jin Yong really threw the Cheun Jen Sect into the fire to bolster Yeung Gor and Little Dragon Girl.

  10. #10
    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    3,943

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cesare View Post
    Poor Zhen Zhibing (or Yin Zhiping if you prefer)...
    I don't think he's bashed that much in this forum. The only person that constantly bash him with venom is TC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Banh Mi View Post
    I generally don't like Guo Jing that much, but I give him props when he wanted to hack off his daughter's arm.

    I know people generally feel the reverse about this, they like him, but disagree with that notion.

    I respect the guy for sticking to his guns when it's tough. If you only stick to a principle when it's easy to follow then what good are you? If you expect honour of everyone by give in when it's your loved ones, then you're just a hypocite.
    It's when you stick to your values even though it's hard and you might have more reasons not to, that's commendable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Banh Mi View Post
    I just don't like him as much because Xiao Feng's character strikes me alot more than Guo Jing does.

    There are 2 vague types of protagonists that I recognise in Jin Yong characterization. The straight forward, gung ho, harsh, strict, hardass hero type. And the cunning, smart, witty, playful, carefree prankster type.

    In the first category I like Xiao Feng every which way more than Guo Jing. The word badass was instantaneusly spawned in the English language to describe him, and he doesn't beat around the bush as much as Guo Jing does. He just strikes that side of me more.

    Then for the care free type, I like LHX, he has his bouts of emo but for the most part he's chillax like ice cream.

    So I'm pretty unfair when it comes to characters. Xiao Feng in my eyes makes Guo Jing look like a lost preschooler. He's a likable character in his own right, but he just doesn't size up.
    Wow, I have the same assessment of GJ and XF.
    Member of HYS fanclub -> click here to join group.

    Member of TC fanclub.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Cesare's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Czech Republic
    Posts
    703

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yittz View Post
    I don't think he's bashed that much in this forum.
    He can't compete with poor Guo Fu, that's for sure...:-)
    别想把黑暗放在我的面前
    太阳已经生长在我心底
    不再有封闭的畏惧
    奔腾的灵魂飞上天际
    太阳 我在这里

  12. #12
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    22,824

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cesare View Post
    He can't compete with poor Guo Fu, that's for sure...:-)
    I think it's a testament to how poorly conceived the Yeung Gor and Little Dragon Girl characters were as protagonists that Jin Yong felt that he needed to contrive Gwok Fu and Wan Tze Ping/Yan Tze Bing, bringing down the reputations of the honorable Gwok family and Cheun Jen Sect from LOCH, just to bolster those two weak protagonists. They had so little innate appeal that ersatz "appeal" was forced upon them by smearing former protagonists and heroic supporting characters.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    4 seasons in 1 day
    Posts
    1,138

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    For the first 30 years of his life, Xiao Feng was the perfect strong protagonist. He was like Guo Jing without the latter's flaws. Which inevitably made him a little boring: He always overcame stronger foes, came up through the ranks quickly, and had no major obstacles in life. Everything went too smooth, too perfect. When his trouble began, that's when he became more human, where in the process he experienced his first love and the pain of losing it, universal rejection and hate towards him, and mostly importantly, by being on the other side, he understood the value of universal peace and compassion. He was the first Jin Yong protagonist to see the light.

    Ironically, when Xiao Feng was young, when he was Mr. Perfect and Mr. Robot at the same time, that's when he was the most trouble-free. When he became more human, when his character began to blossom, he experienced the inevitable pitfalls of human life, as all humans do, that's when he suffered the most. And yet, without the suffering, he could not have gained his wisdom that was beyond his time which few in his time could understand. Most importantly, he did not stop once the wisdom was upon him; he used it to save the lives of thousands, even giving up his most precious resource in doing so. In the end, Xiao Feng = Enlightenment + Courage + Compassion = Real Impact.
    The humanity of the character is not as much important to me. Rather I like reading about these unrealistically heroic characters because they evoke certain emotions and thoughts in me. My favourite parts of Xiao Feng is usually his extreme devil may care attitude. Like stabbing himself 6 times etc, or LHX bleeding himself for some girl he's never met or even loved. Terribly unrealistic but that's why it's fiction and it makes me think, damn that's badass.

    Wow, I have the same assessment of GJ and XF.
    I guess that's why we became quick friends. If we end up meeting lets make a blood pact, you can be older if you want.
    Last edited by Banh Mi; 11-14-09 at 08:22 PM.

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    1,930

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I think it's a testament to how poorly conceived the Yeung Gor and Little Dragon Girl characters were as protagonists that Jin Yong felt that he needed to contrive Gwok Fu and Wan Tze Ping/Yan Tze Bing, bringing down the reputations of the honorable Gwok family and Cheun Jen Sect from LOCH, just to bolster those two weak protagonists. They had so little innate appeal that ersatz "appeal" was forced upon them by smearing former protagonists and heroic supporting characters.
    If you want to play that game, both were better written characters than Yang Kang, which was clearly written to be the anti-Guo Jing. Whereas Guo Fu and Zhen Zhibing might be marginally realistic continuations of a LOCH Huang Rong and a Quanzhen disciple who can't resist temptation, Yang Kang wasn't a coherent character at all, just whatever the plot at that point needed him to be be.

  15. #15
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    22,824

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pannonian View Post
    If you want to play that game, both were better written characters than Yang Kang, which was clearly written to be the anti-Guo Jing.
    Yeung Hong was a villain and he did his job.

    Why do people bother defending Yeung Gor and Little Dragon Girl anyway? I don't think either one of them is worth a single letter of ink on a page or a byte of data on the Web (to defend, anyway; they're worth a few books to criticize, however). Just don't get the appeal at all, let alone the fanaticism.

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    1,930

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Yeung Hong was a villain and he did his job.

    Why do people bother defending Yeung Gor and Little Dragon Girl anyway? I don't think either one of them is worth a single letter of ink on a page or a byte of data on the Web (to defend, anyway; they're worth a few books to criticize, however). Just don't get the appeal at all, let alone the fanaticism.
    Some of us are just tired of your using anything and everything to bash those two characters. Any imperfections in Quanzhen? Yang Guo's fault. Huang Rong not being a perfect mother? Yang Guo's fault. Wang Chongyang less than perfect? Well, Lin Chaoying's fault, but it's transmitted down the ages to Xiao Longnu and Yang Guo as well. Never mind that Zhen Zhibing wasn't the only person to be struck by Xiao Longnu's beauty (HSDS begins with a poem by Qiu Chuji on his first meeting with XLN), nor that it would be stretching credulity that Huang Rong would automatically be a good mother (Guo Fu's selfish and wilful tendencies were always there in her mother, only tempered by Guo Jing). Or that Wang Chongyang's heroism was far more tarnished by the 3rd edition HSDS 9 yang addition than it ever was in ROCH. There are lots of things to legitimately criticise in ROCH, but you manage almost unerringly to choose the wrong ones to hammer on.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Extremer88's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    LOHAH - Land of Honour & Happiness
    Posts
    2,405

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I think it's a testament to how poorly conceived the Yeung Gor and Little Dragon Girl characters were as protagonists that Jin Yong felt that he needed to contrive Gwok Fu and Wan Tze Ping/Yan Tze Bing, bringing down the reputations of the honorable Gwok family and Cheun Jen Sect from LOCH, just to bolster those two weak protagonists. They had so little innate appeal that ersatz "appeal" was forced upon them by smearing former protagonists and heroic supporting characters.
    Yang Guo and Xiao Longnv are perhaps, weak and not appealing enough as individual characters. But I don't feel that Yang Guo and Xiao Longnv are collectively weak as a protagonists-couple.

    Perhaps it could be attributed to their love story. However childish or ridiculous their love relationship was, it was their love that shone through, that makes them glow, that makes the novel riveting, even to the extent of overshadowing Guo Jing and Huang Rong.
    ..ext88

  18. #18
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    22,824

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pannonian View Post
    Some of us are just tired of your using anything and everything to bash those two characters.
    And why? Are these two characters *worth* defending? I'd say absolutely not. They are the absolute offenders, not the offended. They are the perpetrators of wrongs, not the wronged.

    So there's no cause to be "tired" of anything negative directed towards these characters because they deserve it all and then some.

    I use "anything and everything" because it's applicable and beyond deserved.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    1,930

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    And why? Are these two characters *worth* defending? I'd say absolutely not. They are the absolute offenders, not the offended. They are the perpetrators of wrongs, not the wronged.

    So there's no cause to be "tired" of anything negative directed towards these characters because they deserve it all and then some.

    I use "anything and everything" because it's applicable and beyond deserved.
    They're not worth defending. They're not worth praising. They're not worth criticising. They're not worth anything, if that requires the obsession that you devote to them. They're just characters who are part of stories. There are other aspects of the stories to be appreciated or groaned at, such as other characters, and the quality or otherwise of the writing. But when someone relates absolutely everything to one or two characters, and all from one direction, it gets tedious awful quick.

  20. #20
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    22,824

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pannonian View Post
    But when someone relates absolutely everything to one or two characters, and all from one direction, it gets tedious awful quick.
    If you'd "lived" with them for twenty-five years the way I have, you'd dedicate your life to destroying their reputations too.

    Word to all members: when Ken wants to hate on Yeung Gor and Little Dragon Girl, the wise thing to do is just get out of his way...resistance will only lead to thirty-six more hate posts towards your favorite Divine Condor Couple.

    Just sit back and watch quietly and it'll go away faster.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 11
    Last Post: 08-09-14, 02:41 AM
  2. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 02-05-13, 03:11 PM
  3. Female characters in wuxia
    By Han Solo in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: 08-03-10, 10:08 PM
  4. Damage taken by wuxia characters
    By tape in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-19-07, 12:23 AM
  5. Your love progression of JY Main Characters
    By Temujin in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 02-14-06, 10:11 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •