In Job Hunt, College Degree Can’t Close Racial Gap

[jiang bao]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/01/us/01race.html?hp

In Job Hunt, College Degree Can’t Close Racial Gap
Damon Winter/The New York Times

Johnny Williams has scrubbed his résumé of any details that might tip off his skin color.

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By MICHAEL LUO
Published: November 30, 2009

Johnny R. Williams, 30, would appear to be an unlikely person to have to fret about the impact of race on his job search, with companies like JPMorgan Chase and an M.B.A. from the University of Chicago on his résumé.
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Barry Jabbar Sykes goes by Barry J. Sykes in his job hunt.
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But after graduating from business school last year and not having much success garnering interviews, he decided to retool his résumé, scrubbing it of any details that might tip off his skin color. His membership, for instance, in the African-American business students association? Deleted.

“If they’re going to X me,” Mr. Williams said, “I’d like to at least get in the door first.”

Similarly, Barry Jabbar Sykes, 37, who has a degree in mathematics from Morehouse College, a historically black college in Atlanta, now uses Barry J. Sykes in his continuing search for an information technology position, even though he has gone by Jabbar his whole life.

“Barry sounds like I could be from Ireland,” he said.

That race remains a serious obstacle in the job market for African-Americans, even those with degrees from respected colleges, may seem to some people a jarring contrast to decades of progress by blacks, culminating in President Obama’s election.

But there is ample evidence that racial inequities remain when it comes to employment. Black joblessness has long far outstripped that of whites. And strikingly, the disparity for the first 10 months of this year, as the recession has dragged on, has been even more pronounced for those with college degrees, compared with those without. Education, it seems, does not level the playing field — in fact, it appears to have made it more uneven.

College-educated black men, especially, have struggled relative to their white counterparts in this downturn, according to figures from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The unemployment rate for black male college graduates 25 and older in 2009 has been nearly twice that of white male college graduates — 8.4 percent compared with 4.4 percent.

Various academic studies have confirmed that black job seekers have a harder time than whites. A study published several years ago in The American Economic Review titled “Are Emily and Greg More Employable than Lakisha and Jamal?” found that applicants with black-sounding names received 50 percent fewer callbacks than those with white-sounding names.

A more recent study, published this year in The Journal of Labor Economics found white, Asian and Hispanic managers tended to hire more whites and fewer blacks than black managers did.

The discrimination is rarely overt, according to interviews with more than two dozen college-educated black job seekers around the country, many of them out of work for months. Instead, those interviewed told subtler stories, referring to surprised looks and offhand comments, interviews that fell apart almost as soon as they began, and the sudden loss of interest from companies after meetings.

Whether or not each case actually involved bias, the possibility has furnished an additional agonizing layer of second-guessing for many as their job searches have dragged on.

“It does weigh on you in the search because you’re wondering, how much is race playing a factor in whether I’m even getting a first call, or whether I’m even getting an in-person interview once they hear my voice and they know I’m probably African-American?” said Terelle Hairston, 25, a graduate of Yale University who has been looking for work since the summer while also trying to get a marketing consulting start-up off the ground. “You even worry that the hiring manager may not be as interested in diversity as the H.R. manager or upper management.”

Mr. Williams recently applied to a Dallas money management firm that had posted a position with top business schools. The hiring manager had seemed ecstatic to hear from him, telling him they had trouble getting people from prestigious business schools to move to the area. Mr. Williams had left New York and moved back in with his parents in Dallas to save money.

But when Mr. Williams later met two men from the firm for lunch, he said they appeared stunned when he strolled up to introduce himself.

“Their eyes kind of hit the ceiling a bit,” he said. “It was kind of quiet for about 45 seconds.”

The company’s interest in him quickly cooled, setting off the inevitable questions in his mind.

Discrimination in many cases may not even be intentional, some job seekers pointed out, but simply a matter of people gravitating toward similar people, casting about for the right “cultural fit,” a buzzword often heard in corporate circles.

There is also the matter of how many jobs, especially higher-level ones, are never even posted and depend on word-of-mouth and informal networks, in many cases leaving blacks at a disadvantage. A recent study published in the academic journal Social Problems found that white males receive substantially more job leads for high-level supervisory positions than women and members of minorities.

Many interviewed, however, wrestled with “pulling the race card,” groping between their cynicism and desire to avoid the stigma that blacks are too quick to claim victimhood. After all, many had gone to good schools and had accomplished résumés. Some had grown up in well-to-do settings, with parents who had raised them never to doubt how high they could climb. Moreover, there is President Obama, perhaps the ultimate embodiment of that belief.

Certainly, they conceded, there are times when their race can be beneficial, particularly with companies that have diversity programs. But many said they sensed that such opportunities had been cut back over the years and even more during the downturn. Others speculated there was now more of a tendency to deem diversity unnecessary after Mr. Obama’s triumph.

In fact, whether Mr. Obama’s election has been good or bad for their job prospects is hotly debated. Several interviewed went so far as to say that they believed there was only so much progress that many in the country could take, and that there was now a backlash against blacks.

“There is resentment toward his presidency among some because of his race,” said Edward Verner, a Morehouse alumnus from New Jersey who was laid off as a regional sales manager and has been able to find only part-time work. “This has affected well-educated, African-American job seekers.”

It is difficult to overstate the degree that they say race permeates nearly every aspect of their job searches, from how early they show up to interviews to the kinds of anecdotes they try to come up with.

“You want to be a nonthreatening, professional black guy,” said Winston Bell, 40, of Cleveland, who has been looking for a job in business development.

He drew an analogy to several prominent black sports broadcasters. “You don’t want to be Stephen A. Smith. You want to be Bryant Gumbel. You don’t even want to be Stuart Scott. You don’t want to be, ‘Booyah.’ ”

Nearly all said they agonized over job applications that asked them whether they would like to identify their race. Most said they usually did not.

[Trien Chieu]

Racism, racism, racism............ but it doesn't surprise me.
The race card is powerful and easy to use isn't it. Whenever they didn't get what they wanted, it's nothing but racism. They now have a black president, what else do they want?

The Journal of Labor Economics found white, Asian and Hispanic managers tended to hire more whites and fewer blacks than black managers did.

It's always other people fault and never their fault when things don't go right for them. It has been always the white man fault and now extend to Hispanic and Asian men as well. Which race is supporting criminals of their own kind? I guess the white race is supporting Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka while the asian race is supporting Seung Hui Cho.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_massacre
I wonder which race in the US is the most racist among all.

Not just unemployment rate, the rate of AIDS/Hiv/STDs and crime are also higher in their community, I guess they are nothing but racism.

[pemberly]

They now have a black president, what else do they want?

i think they want big mouthed b*stards to stop stereotyping that black people are somehow prone to crime, stds, and unemployment just because of the color of their skin.

[Trien Chieu]

i think they want big mouthed b*stards to stop stereotyping that black people are somehow prone to crime, stds, and unemployment just because of the color of their skin.

It has nothing to do with skin color, it is all about actions and consequences. I am just sick and tire of seeing people using the race card when things don't go right for them. It has been the white men fault due to slavery and now blaming the hispanic and asian men for personal failure as well.

[jiang bao]

So here’s a clear case of racism, and it’s the professional black people’s own fault cuz “they” are black, according to TC. Fundamental racism right there. Clearly, these people who cannot even get an interview because their names sound black are not the criminals that TC condemns black people for, and are the responsible people that TC loves to diss black people for not being, and yet TC—who denies being a racist—is still claiming they “play the race card” and shows no sympathy for their unfair treatment because why? Because they are black. Just because other blacks may be criminals, it doesn’t mean these specific professionals deserve to be treated unfairly. TC thinks it’s ok though.

[Dennis Chen]

Barack HUSSEIN Obama is President. His name didn't seem to hurt him.

[Trien Chieu]

So here’s a clear case of racism, and it’s the professional black people’s own fault cuz “they” are black, according to TC. Fundamental racism right there. Clearly, these people who cannot even get an interview because their names sound black are not the criminals that TC condemns black people for, and are the responsible people that TC loves to diss black people for not being, and yet TC—who denies being a racist—is still claiming they “play the race card” and shows no sympathy for their unfair treatment because why? Because they are black. Just because other blacks may be criminals, it doesn’t mean these specific professionals deserve to be treated unfairly. TC thinks it’s ok though.

Whatever.
This is tough time. Good jobs are hard to find for all people, not just black. I am pretty sure it's not easy for non-black to land a high paying job either. I am pretty sure that it's not easy for non-black to get an interview either because at this time, there are probably hundreds, if not thousands, of people apply a same high paying job. Therefore, the ones with years of experience will probably get the interview and land the job while the newly graduate will not. This is not racism. Jiang Bao, you claimed you yourself just lost your job recently due to A$$ Wipe, do you blame it on racism?? Do you think it would be different if you are white? I think you should just join the NAACP and Jeremiah Wright's church and at the same time follow Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton around protesting about racism.

[jiang bao]

It’s really hard to not come across as personally attacking you when I respond to you because you write these idiotic things.

The article notes VARIOUS (as in multiple) studies that finds that black people are disproportionately having a difficult time finding employment. Either you ignored the two paragraphs which I have pasted below FYI or you cannot understand it. Of course, to you, that’s just “a race card” right cuz clearly the article writer (a Chinese person) and/or the academic researchers must be a bunch of black sympathizers right?

“College-educated black men, especially, have struggled relative to their white counterparts in this downturn, according to figures from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The unemployment rate for black male college graduates 25 and older in 2009 has been nearly twice that of white male college graduates — 8.4 percent compared with 4.4 percent.

Various academic studies have confirmed that black job seekers have a harder time than whites. A study published several years ago in The American Economic Review titled “Are Emily and Greg More Employable than Lakisha and Jamal?” found that applicants with black-sounding names received 50 percent fewer callbacks than those with white-sounding names.”

[pemberly]

Whatever.
This is tough time. Good jobs are hard to find for all people, not just black. I am pretty sure it's not easy for non-black to land a high paying job either. I am pretty sure that it's not easy for non-black to get an interview either because at this time, there are probably hundreds, if not thousands, of people apply a same high paying job.

it's clear from the article that black college graduates are having a much tougher time looking for jobs than their white counterparts.

College-educated black men, especially, have struggled relative to their white counterparts in this downturn, according to figures from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The unemployment rate for black male college graduates 25 and older in 2009 has been nearly twice that of white male college graduates — 8.4 percent compared with 4.4 percent.

Jiang Bao, you claimed you yourself just lost your job recently due to A$$ Wipe, do you blame it on racism?? Do you think it would be different if you are white?

he pointed out a legitimate case in which rascism played a role. this doesn't mean that he is "playing the race card" nor does it mean that he's going to start blaming rascism for everything. the case he pointed out was based on statistics and hard facts.

I think you should just join the NAACP and Jeremiah Wright's church and at the same time follow Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton around protesting about racism.

stop talking about the naacp like it's some sort of cult. they do a lot of charitable work such as

voter registration drives; economic empowerment campaigns ; health awareness campaigns; media monitoring; the re-enfranchising of ex-felons; advocacy for women of color; and campaigns targeting youth

from http://www.ehow.com/about_5068460_be...americans.html

[Sparky]

I don't see why TC singles out blacks for using their race as a crutch. The phenomenon is hardly unique to a single race and perhaps a fundamental part of human nature. I've spoken to many people about affirmative action and I find it hilarious how people from overrepresented groups justify their rejections with AA. For example, many whites and Asians blame AA for their lack of success in college admissions. Do I doubt there's reverse discrimination? No. But comments like, "I could've gotten into college otherwise" are ridiculous. These people manage to ignore all of their other shortcomings and simply attribute their problems to their race, while completely failing to recognize that there *were* people of their race who were admitted!

Furthermore, I can't believe how many "Barack Obama is president, so racism clearly doesn't happen in the US" comments there are in this thread. What a ludicrous argument. There's much involved in politics beyond the candidates themselves. While Obama's election was monumental to say the least, racism didn't magically evaporate in that instance. Benazir Bhutto was Prime Minister of Pakistan. Does that mean women there don't have a right to complain about discrimination?

That being said, I would argue that the data presented in the article does show rather weak causality. I feel like I agree with the general premise, however, simply based on the racist/sexist attitudes among people I've encountered; I also know that similar studies have been done in the past. There will always be people who portray themselves as victimised. But this doesn't nullify empirical evidence that clearly corroborates the claim about discrimination in the work place. It's easy to abrogate de jure discrimination and much more difficult to regulate de facto discrimination.

[Trien Chieu]

I don't see why TC singles out blacks for using their race as a crutch. The phenomenon is hardly unique to a single race and perhaps a fundamental part of human nature. I've spoken to many people about affirmative action and I find it hilarious how people from overrepresented groups justify their rejections with AA. For example, many whites and Asians blame AA for their lack of success in college admissions. Do I doubt there's reverse discrimination? No. But comments like, "I could've gotten into college otherwise" are ridiculous. These people manage to ignore all of their other shortcomings and simply attribute their problems to their race, while completely failing to recognize that there *were* people of their race who were admitted!

Society should be color blind. College admissions should be based on grade, not skin color. If PersonA has higher grade than PersonB but PersonA is unable to get into college while PersonB got in due to skin color, then that is out right racist against PersonA. Society should treat PersonA and PersonB as an individual, it doesn't matter what color they belong to.

Furthermore, I can't believe how many "Barack Obama is president, so racism clearly doesn't happen in the US" comments there are in this thread. What a ludicrous argument. There's much involved in politics beyond the candidates themselves. While Obama's election was monumental to say the least, racism didn't magically evaporate in that instance. Benazir Bhutto was Prime Minister of Pakistan. Does that mean women there don't have a right to complain about discrimination?

That being said, I would argue that the data presented in the article does show rather weak causality. I feel like I agree with the general premise, however, simply based on the racist/sexist attitudes among people I've encountered; I also know that similar studies have been done in the past. There will always be people who portray themselves as victimised. But this doesn't nullify empirical evidence that clearly corroborates the claim about discrimination in the work place. It's easy to abrogate de jure discrimination and much more difficult to regulate de facto discrimination.

If it's ok for 96% of black voters to vote for a black candidate, then it's ok (I don't believe it is the case) for 96% of white business owners to prefer hiring white workers. If they prefer to stick to their own color then don't blame others to do so as well. You can't have it both ways.

[GuGu]

TC doesn't believe in statistics and research, he only knows that if a black person is complaining of unfair treatment then that means the colored fella is using the race card. Evident by how he totally missed all the facts in the article and just started blurting 'RACE CARD!'

[kidd]

It has nothing to do with skin color, it is all about actions and consequences. I am just sick and tire of seeing people using the race card when things don't go right for them. It has been the white men fault due to slavery and now blaming the hispanic and asian men for personal failure as well.

Yes, it's is everything to do with skin color in your case. Whenever the word 'black' was mentioned you immediately thought of criminals, race card, std, laziness. To you, it's always the black people's fault. To you, black people are automatically race card thumping criminal defenders without self motivation unless that black person prove otherwise. It's guilt until proven innocent when it comes to black in your eyes. I bet you already made up your mind it's the race card even before your reach 1/4 of the article.

[kidd]

I don't see why TC singles out blacks for using their race as a crutch. The phenomenon is hardly unique to a single race and perhaps a fundamental part of human nature. I've spoken to many people about affirmative action and I find it hilarious how people from overrepresented groups justify their rejections with AA. For example, many whites and Asians blame AA for their lack of success in college admissions. Do I doubt there's reverse discrimination? No. But comments like, "I could've gotten into college otherwise" are ridiculous. These people manage to ignore all of their other shortcomings and simply attribute their problems to their race, while completely failing to recognize that there *were* people of their race who were admitted!

Society should be color blind. College admissions should be based on grade, not skin color. If PersonA has higher grade than PersonB but PersonA is unable to get into college while PersonB got in due to skin color, then that is out right racist against PersonA. Society should treat PersonA and PersonB as an individual, it doesn't matter what color they belong to.

I see that you have again miss the point and just choose to see what you want. Sparky was saying that there are some whites and Asians who blame AA for their failure in getting into college when the fact was most probably that the AA has better qualifications than them.
But, from your reply, you seem to read the message as 'AA got into college using their skin color' and argued over this point, when the point is actually 'some whites and asians complaining that AA took the college place due to race color'.

What sparky was trying to say is Person A (non-black) complains/speculates that Person B (black) got into college instead of him because Person B is black while ignoring his own shortcoming and the fact that other non-blacks have also gotten into college. Person B might have gotten into college because of his qualification, but, Person A thinks it's race. That's the point of Sparky's message.

[jiang bao]

TC doesn't believe in statistics and research, he only knows that if a black person is complaining of unfair treatment then that means the colored fella is using the race card. Evident by how he totally missed all the facts in the article and just started blurting 'RACE CARD!'

TC is a typical hardcore conservative. Research data? They dismiss as liberal attempts to manipulate. Subjective opinion and dubious claims reeking of right wing propaganda presented as fact? They regard as gospel.

You can see that trait in the few hardcore conservatives we have on this forum. It’s not just TC.

[pemberly]

TC is a typical hardcore conservative. Research data? They dismiss as liberal attempts to manipulate. Subjective opinion and dubious claims reeking of right wing propaganda presented as fact? They regard as gospel.

You can see that trait in the few hardcore conservatives we have on this forum. It’s not just TC.

that's unfair to lump him in with all conservatives! we don't want him either!

[jiang bao]

I am talking about the hardcore conservatives, those on the far right. I think moderate Republicans/conservatives are capable of fairness. The ones who’ll diss Obama no matter what he does, and blame “big government,” blacks, immigrants, gays, (insert other minorities) for what they see as wrong with society.

[pemberly]

I am talking about the hardcore conservatives, those on the far right. I think moderate Republicans/conservatives are capable of fairness. The ones who’ll diss Obama no matter what he does, and blame “big government,” blacks, immigrants, gays, (insert other minorities) for what they see as wrong with society.

when did the word "conservative" become synonymous with "crazy?"

[Ken Cheng]

when did the word "conservative" become synonymous with "crazy?"

Around 1994.

[PJ]

Around 1994.

Disagree. It was more like Dec 31, 1993, at 11:58:49 pm.