19/12/2009, Muay Thai to challenge Chinese Kungfu

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Thai boxing champs to challenge Chinese boxers

Five Muay Thai boxing champions will challenge Chinese boxers at a kickboxing contest set for December 19 in Foshan, Guangdong Province.
In the list released by the Chinese Wushu Association (CWA) Wednesday, the boxers include Xu Jifu, Dong Wenfei, Liu Cengceng, Zhang Kaiyin and Zhang Maofu. They are in classes ranging from 60 kg to 80 kg and will participate in the contest and fight against a team of five Muay Thai boxers.
New rules giving players the green light to use knees and elbows to attack will put Chinese boxers in a disadvantageous position, as it is the strength of Muay Thai boxers, according to Chen Guorong, vice president of the CWA. He also added that the final list of boxers was a decision to make sure China chooses the right people.

source: http://sports.globaltimes.cn/morespo...12/489420.html (pics of Chinese fighters included)

Which side you guys think will win?

[Banh Mi]

It's up to the fighter. Styles makes fights, but the person inside the ring is the one who determines what happens.

[Extremer88]

I think this has nothing to do with wuxia.

[K2Grey]

The Chinese guys seem to be boxers, not kung fu proponents.

[GuGu]

will they be broadcasting this? i wanna watch.

[jiang bao]

My hometown!

We rock. Well, not really, but in terms of kung fu, we have a good history.

[Ken Cheng]

Not that I like it, but I'm ready to see Chinese kung fu get pwnd again...as usual.

[QF]

its like a Great(Muy Thai) fighting Mei Chao Feng(chinese)

QF

[GuGu]

lol. you guys should have some faith.

[Ahoxan]

I think "Muy Thai" will win in a straight-up set competition.

"Chinese Kung-Fu" emcompasses a wide variety of different skills & techniques... and as a whole would be superior if an exponent knew them all. In a competition in a ring... "Muy Thai" seems to be more specifically designed for it. The training to receive blows and still fight seems better than that of most "Kung Fu" fighters.

[Aventinus]

What with the advent of MMA and stuff, and the includiosn of grappling on top of striking, and given Muay Thai for the most part usually gets better showings and Kung Fu (both predominantly striking arts) I say Muay Thai.

(Now this was back in the day when it was just starting out, MMA for the most part these days has developed into it's own art mixing striking and grappling)

Doesn't say which is a "superior" art. It miffs me a little actually when some people say this art of that art is mostly striking and thus "inferior" to MMA styles. And while having everything well rounded is good, lack of grappling isn't necessarily inferior. In the rings perhaps when you don't have a good defense against it. But most of these arts weren't developed for rings battles with refs. In a battlefield fighting for your life, trying to tie your opponent up in a rear naked choke might not be the best idea in the world.

[Ren Wo Xing]

This is somewhat misrepresented in the media. In actuality, this 'challenge' is an ongoing commercial competition that has been around for years, and this competition is the 'Sixth Annual Chinese-Thai Boxing Competition'. China won all five of the previous competitions, BUT, knees and elbows were previously not allowed, putting Muay Thai fighters at a significant disadvantage.

[Ahoxan]

This is somewhat misrepresented in the media. In actuality, this 'challenge' is an ongoing commercial competition that has been around for years, and this competition is the 'Sixth Annual Chinese-Thai Boxing Competition'. China won all five of the previous competitions, BUT, knees and elbows were previously not allowed, putting Muay Thai fighters at a significant disadvantage.

Glad to see that the core skills of "Muay Thai" won't be excluded this time around.
To exclude the use of a fighter's core skill is the same as crippling him.

[JoeLee]

depends on who's competing and the rules..clinching allowed for thais? take downs allowed for sanshou guys? even if knees and elbows allowed how are they scored?

also the thing about the thai's is that they generally cut very little weight 2 make fights because they fight so often (and honestly they so lean there not much 2 cut). So when they fight internationally they are outweighed by 20 something pounds during fight night..

another thing 2 consider is that the best thai fighters are around 126-147 ....the thai fighter @ 80kg will definetly not be top tier.....

but ya...pound 4 pound if u talk about pure striking and no ground grappling, it's very difficult to beat them. The typical fighter trains 6-8 hours a day 6 days a week. This includes jogging 12-20km, bag work (which includes rounds and reps..ie 800knees or 100 kicks or something like that), pad training and general strength and conditioning excercises (pushes, situps lots of them) sparring (light usually...north americans actually hit alot harder when sparring) and also a couple rounds of clinching...their style of training imo maybe couterproductive and not very scientific, because their is only so much your body can take. but they do it from such a young age, that they adapt 2 it.

but their secret is not their training, it's their expiernce.i met a 13-14 yr old with 65 fights...and a 18 yr old with 120....and that type of thing is pretty common...

[kyss of the sword]

quote from history's strongest disciple:
scene kenichi learning muay thai from apachi.
akisame: "most current martial arts prohibit the use of knees and elbows during a match."
kenichi: "why?"
apachi: "because if you get hit wrong you die."
akisame: "true, but, muay thai focuses on these two techniques instead."
kenichi: "why."
apachi: "that's because! if you get a good hit in, you can kill him."
kenichi hiding in fear.

muay thai is a battle field art that has not lost it's power in the ring. chinese kungfu is varied but only a few arts of it actually could match muay thai's power.

[Banh Mi]

Please stop it with the grossly generalized cliches.

[K2Grey]

I'm not sure why people associate knees and elbows with Muay Thai so much, punches and kicks seem to be much more common outside the clinch. I guess it's the influence of Ong Bak or whatever it was called but really, people don't just randomly throw flying knees as their main attack and KOing people with elbows outside the clinch is just something which is not expected. Also I highly doubt any kind of unarmed combat can be said to be a battlefield art unless it was historically popular for armies to fight each other with their bare hands.

And, where the heck does it say the Chinese boxers are kung fu experts?

[duguxiaojing]

In thailand its the knees and elbows that are their primary weapons. They are the highest scoring weapons as well. Part of it has to do with the gambling down there.....and because the heavy gambling doesn't happen until the later rounds...its usually first 2 or sometimes three rounds its just light technique and this is where they'll use their punch and kicks and the nice looking techniques.....and then the last 2-3 its a clinch war with elbows and knees. Not the prettiest fight..but unfortunately they are doing it for a living and they need the gamblers and they need 2 win.

That's the typical thai fighters...but there are guys who are primarily walk forward punchers ..and some of them have done quite well.


North American style heavily favors movement, punching and leg kicks....thai's have a very different style from North American MT practitioners who are influenced by western style boxing. You can see it in their stance...and there rhythm is also very different from one another as well.

[CC]

TIGER UPPERCUT!!!!


Sorry, thats the first thing that comes to mind when reading this thread...

[kyss of the sword]

muay thai takes the stance that the body is like a machine with hinges and pulleys. muay thai's techniques and training focuses on using the body effectively to destroy the opponent. boxing and modern sport martial arts take the same stance.
the use of knees and elbows is very functional when considering power strikes that take less energy. the closer the hand stays near the body or the foot under the body, the better leverage and balance there is in the strike. this is real, not a theory or wuxia fantasy.
chinese kungfu mostly focuses on acrobatic moves and variety in techniques/counter techniques but seems to lack in one hit, one kill moves. the agility based movements serve a function in evading the opponents attack and gaining opportunities to attack but most chinese kungfu generally lacks power compared to other styles. many of the famous aerial attacks like double mandarin duck kicks are good at knocking down the opponent but not as forceful as e.g.standing karate kick or muay thai flying elbow.

just want to add something in case i offended anyone. chinese kungfu is not weak. taiji quan is rather effective in combat and shaolin kungfu is a style that has proven itself. it's most of the other styles of chinese kungfu has been passed down through performance and dance troops so acrobatic and stylish form has played more importance the actual combat effectiveness. due to the reason of keeping it's uniqueness most styles have not changed this mindset(except for bai min quan/white eyebrow kungfu, i don't know of a pure combat based chinese kungfu). most styles outside china have progressed because of their combative effectiveness. styles that don't make the criteria have pretty much died out, unlike china where family or clans maintain traditional styles.

in the fight between chinese kungfu and muay thai, what style of chinese kungfu will be used will be a factor.