Are the Gu Long novels with the more "limited" martial arts more popular?

[Ken Cheng]

Gu Long sometimes tends to go off the deep end in describing the most powerful martial arts in his novels...witness the "time-stopping" and "world-flipping" swordsmanship of Yin 13 in THIRD YOUNG MASTER'S SWORD.

Now THIRD YOUNG MASTER'S SWORD is a fairly popular Gu Long novel, but I don't think it's as popular as the LUK SIU FUNG, CHOR LAU HEUNG, and SENTIMENTAL SWORDSMAN, RUTHLESS SWORD novels. For better or worse, those three very popular Gu Long novels feature martial arts that are (for the most part) within the bounds of reasonable limits.

Is it a coincidence that the most popular Gu Long novels are the ones who feature martial arts and martial artists who, while powerful, are kept within worldly limits and don't perform otherworldly feats that seem beyond the scope of wuxia?

[tape]

The Legendary Twins/Siblings is pretty popular, and the martial arts there are pretty over the top.

[jiang bao]

Actually the MA in the mentioned novels are even more out there. It’s just that GL favors that one trademark move and bother to address how such moves are done. The characters simply are able to do them.

LXF able to stop any attack with his two fingers? XMCX literally no longer needs a sword to kill with a “sword”? LXH able to end most fights with basically one move (the dagger throw)? Leaps of faith.

[smurf120]

OT - I must have missed the postings but has our moderator Ken read all the novels? I am genuinely curious since I remember the long ago threads about novels vs adaptation.

[Han Solo]

OT - I must have missed the postings but has our moderator Ken read all the novels? I am genuinely curious since I remember the long ago threads about novels vs adaptation.

KC never reads any novels AFAIK but is still pretty knowledgeable.

On topic = those novels are more popular because they have some mystery detective style, and have more stylish writing, and have been adapted early enough to permeate into the general culture.

Han Solo

[PJ]

Actually, Lu Xiaofeng and Chu Liuxiang series each had some outrageous martial arts. For example, Water Matriarch Yin Ji is ranked #4 on TigerWong's list, while Old Man Gong is also ranked in the top 10.

Water Matriarch's kung fu was far above Chu Liuxiang's, it was like Sweeper Monk vs Xiao Feng.

As for Dagger Lee, he may actually rank very high if we consider his old version. Apparently he had become so legendary that even Third Master Xie Xiaofeng, who eventually reached a level above that of the deceased Yan "Freeze Time And Space" 13, was afraid of Lee.

But really, I think the 3 Mega Popular novels (Chu, Lu, and Lee) win probably on the strength of better writing and more interesting stories.

[CC]

Gu Long martial arts don't need to make 'sense' sometimes.

The way he used his words, I get the impression that even though Little Li's dagger did not have the strength to punch through the Fat Lady 'Buddha's' neck blubber, it was still LEAGUES ahead of crazy stuff like the Demon Decapitating Sabre which was like 6MSJ on steroids and could win over Swordsmen who freeze time and space and Sabres which exceed the limitations of speed.

[bliss]

It seems like Dagger Li was much more powerful after his time than during when he actually wandered Jianghu. Kind of like how you see most famous people have their legacies way inflated after death.

[CC]

It seems like Dagger Li was much more powerful after his time than during when he actually wandered Jianghu. Kind of like how you see most famous people have their legacies way inflated after death.

Possible, but the facts are that he defeated the #1 Fighter of his time and after he faded from the scene, his disciple was clearly dominating the field too.

I am still sticking with my theory that GL shows heavy favouritism to Dagger Li due to his identification with the melancholic alcoholic.

[Ren Wo Xing]

In Biancheng Langzi, it was stated that Bai Tianyu was not at all inferior to Shangguan Jinhong of bygone years, and also often suggested that Fu Hongxue's sabre was every bit as fast and as terrifying as Bai Tianyu's sabre. And yet, compared to the 'modern-day' Ah Fei, he was far, far behind, though Ah Fei himself states that he, Ye Kai, and Jin Wuming were not inferior to the previous generation at the same age. This suggests that Gulong protagonists simply continue to improve at a high rate, regardless of how good they already are.

[CC]

In Biancheng Langzi, it was stated that Bai Tianyu was not at all inferior to Shangguan Jinhong of bygone years, and also often suggested that Fu Hongxue's sabre was every bit as fast and as terrifying as Bai Tianyu's sabre. And yet, compared to the 'modern-day' Ah Fei, he was far, far behind, though Ah Fei himself states that he, Ye Kai, and Jin Wuming were not inferior to the previous generation at the same age. This suggests that Gulong protagonists simply continue to improve at a high rate, regardless of how good they already are.

I always wondered about all that. Because if Shangguan = Bai = 18 yr old Fu Hongxue.

Then Shangguan = 18 yr FHX >= Little Li (in the first novel)!?!?!?!?

And if 18 yr FHX not inferior to young Ah Fei, then Young Ah Fei is also > Little Li!!!

As I said, forget about using linear relationships and common sense for Gu Long. Just accept that the damned dagger is invincible in Gu Long's heart.

[PJ]

I think Gu Long's self-glorification of Li Xunhuan is largely bullshit. He was no saint in his novel, fighting mostly because he was forced to. And yet, in subsequent novels where his name is mentioned, he suddenly became "one who fights for justice." What the hell? I think Gu Long took a huge leap of faith.

[CC]

I think Gu Long's self-glorification of Li Xunhuan is largely bullshit. He was no saint in his novel, fighting mostly because he was forced to. And yet, in subsequent novels where his name is mentioned, he suddenly became "one who fights for justice." What the hell? I think Gu Long took a huge leap of faith.

I think the point is not that Li is the 'most righteous' fighter of all time.

The point is that Li's martial arts uses 'righteousness' as a source. Like Yang Guo's Sad Palms using emotion as a source of power. Other fighters might be fighting for justice, just that it is not a factor in their martial arts.

[PJ]

I think the point is not that Li is the 'most righteous' fighter of all time.

The point is that Li's martial arts uses 'righteousness' as a source. Like Yang Guo's Sad Palms using emotion as a source of power. Other fighters might be fighting for justice, just that it is not a factor in their martial arts.

I thought the words Gu Long/Ah Fei used to describe Li was that he "fought for justice, so cannot be defeated."

How did he "use righteousness as a source" more than Xie Xiaofeng, Ding Peng, or Xiao 11 Lang? Or are we supposed to just believe it because the author said so, even though it seems to be pulled out of thin air?

[CC]

I thought the words Gu Long/Ah Fei used to describe Li was that he "fought for justice, so cannot be defeated."

How did he "use righteousness as a source" more than Xie Xiaofeng, Ding Peng, or Xiao 11 Lang? Or are we supposed to just believe it because the author said so, even though it seems to be pulled out of thin air?

In Ye Kai's words. The essense of the dagger is the 'kind' heart. It cannot be learnt by one without a kind heart. I don't think all the other skills used by DP,X11L and Yan 13 had that limitation mentioned.

[bliss]

In Ye Kai's words. The essense of the dagger is the 'kind' heart. It cannot be learnt by one without a kind heart. I don't think all the other skills used by DP,X11L and Yan 13 had that limitation mentioned.

Like I mentioned earlier, it seems that this 'kind heart' was retconned in after DQJKWQJ. I can't remember any specific instance of this being mentioned in Li's own novel, only after the fact as stated by Jing Wuming at the end of Bordertown. Everything before that only seemed to point at the ferocity of his dagger, mainly the 'Xiao li fei dao, once released never misses' motto.

[CC]

Like I mentioned earlier, it seems that this 'kind heart' was retconned in after DQJKWQJ. I can't remember any specific instance of this being mentioned in Li's own novel, only after the fact as stated by Jing Wuming at the end of Bordertown. Everything before that only seemed to point at the ferocity of his dagger, mainly the 'Xiao li fei dao, once released never misses' motto.

Yes, it is quite possible that:

GL fell in love with Dagger Li much more _after_ he wrote the novel, so came up with some excuse to boost him even more after the novel was written.

And yet, his excuse falls in line with the storyline because during DQJKWQJ, Ah Fei, Jin Wuming and Co. had not reached the state of enlightenment needed to realise this fact yet.

[minutemanwayne]

In Biancheng Langzi, it was stated that Bai Tianyu was not at all inferior to Shangguan Jinhong of bygone years, and also often suggested that Fu Hongxue's sabre was every bit as fast and as terrifying as Bai Tianyu's sabre. And yet, compared to the 'modern-day' Ah Fei, he was far, far behind, though Ah Fei himself states that he, Ye Kai, and Jin Wuming were not inferior to the previous generation at the same age. This suggests that Gulong protagonists simply continue to improve at a high rate, regardless of how good they already are.

A bordertown wanderer Ah Fei, who was already ridiculously strong, still said Li was faster than him, which means Li XunHuan had also improved to an umimaginable level. Same as Xie Xiaofeng after the end the The Sword of the Third Young Master into Ding Pengs era. Pretty much all Gu Long characters which were mentioned in another novel seemed to have improved. Even Long Xiaoyun inherited Little Li's flying dagger.

[bliss]

Yes, it is quite possible that:

GL fell in love with Dagger Li much more _after_ he wrote the novel, so came up with some excuse to boost him even more after the novel was written.

And yet, his excuse falls in line with the storyline because during DQJKWQJ, Ah Fei, Jin Wuming and Co. had not reached the state of enlightenment needed to realise this fact yet.

Yeah, the impression I got after reading DQJKWQJ was that Li beat Shangguan due to luck. After that fight, no one expected Li to be the one who walked out of that chamber alive. It was made very clear that Li didn't win, but rather that Shangguan lost because he wanted to test Li's dagger.

All the talk about his dagger being powered by righteousness only started appearing afterwards in Bordertown.

[bliss]

Back to the original topic, the three aforementioned novels have pretty outrageous martial arts on par with anything Gu Long's ever written.

Both Li and Shangguan were at the level of or maybe even above Dugu 9 Jian's "Overcoming the sword without a sword". They were both flirting with martial arts theories such as "No-sword in hand, sword in heart" and "No-sword, no-hand, no-heart" that make Dugu 9 Jian seem like Founder's Long Fist.

As someone alluded to before, Water Matriarch Yin Ji was at a ridiculously high level, being able to elevate herself on streams of water.

And in Lu Xiaofeng, I recall Yu Luocha being able to make a top-level martial artist drop out of the air dead through sheer presence.