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Thread: Christian teacher accused of ‘bullying’ because offered to pray for sick student

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    Moderator kidd's Avatar
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    Default Christian teacher accused of ‘bullying’ because offered to pray for sick student

    I first read about this news here.

    http://www.examiner.com/x-16044-Chri...r-sick-student

    I was flabbergasted at the extreme reaction to the teacher's offer for prayer. I mean, if my child is sick and someone want to offer prayer and give her positive encouragement, I'll totally welcome it.

    But, knowing how news can be distorted and bias depending on who reported it I googled for more info and found these.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-pray-her.html

    http://www.thisissomerset.co.uk/news...l/article.html

    What do you think? Is the teacher wrong? Are the parents overreacting?
    Last edited by kidd; 12-25-09 at 01:50 AM.
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    Senior Member Guo Xiang's Avatar
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    I'd report her too. She is distressing the child by discussing stuff the kid doesn't want to hear about (death), and she carried on after being told REPEATEDLY to stop. She deserves it. She shouldn't have been so pushy; it just turns people off.

    The good intention is for her own benefit, not the child's or the parents'.
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    I think this is one of those problems that get blown out of proportion by miscommunication.

    The teacher believes she only brought up her faith a few times and although not well received, it wasn't a big reaction.

    The parent believes it bordered on harassment and wouldn't stop.

    If they just set the boundaries straight out, the teacher is there to only teach maths and she can continue doing so if she doesn't bring up religion etc. It wouldn't get this complicated. What's she doing talking about God whens he's spose to be teaching Maths anyway.

    Personally I don't care, but it's really annoying when religious people try to convert me. Jewish and Muslim people haven't tried to convert me, and I'm cool with that but Christianity and it's offshoots really get on my nerves when they try to convert.

    I mean, I don't mind a debate or discussion about religion, but I don't want to be converted.

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    Senior Member remember_Cedric's Avatar
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    Christian take opportunity to reach out. This is something I've failed/ can't be bothered to do.

    I used to tell my friend off (who preached to me) before I came into this belief. Now I come to think of it. What is there to get distressed about? I mean, it's just talking (and sharing) and no one is holding a knife or being abusive against you to make you believe. I had ever get "distressed" before but it was just a state of mind (to run, to escape, to fear to get defeated and "succumbed" to the faith....because I felt more comfortable without the rules and regulations of Christianity?). Just relax, be patient and let them talk. See if those words make sense to you.

    I read parts of the article and not all. So, let just say that, a teacher may be a Math teacher or whatsoever but being a Christian is something I'd called Universal, doesn't matter in what capacity. This teacher is playing both her roles as a teacher and a Christian (which she can also turn a blind eye and go 'Duh, it's your problem. I'm just a teacher.'). Unless this teacher in any part of the story had performed exorcism or do any crazy stuff to traumatise the student, otherwise I don't think she deserves to get sacked when she's marely preaching, plus her intention is good (apparently).

    On the other hand, I read the part that mentioned "On another, after the death of my daughter's close friend, Miss Jones told my 14-year-old daughter that when young people die they go to heaven. These conversations upset my daughter deeply."..... I was like 'Bad timing, Miss Jones, the young lady is in an emo state.'. I mean, I don't understand. That "go to heaven" word sounded consoling to me. I said something with that similar touch to my cousin on the demise of her dad, she smiled and said "Thank you!".

    Death is obviously a topic most people still wants to deny, avoid and refused to accept. She's a teenager, BTW. It seems that this young lady is still in the phase of "afraid to face". I believe Miss Jones's intention is in the young lady's interest rather than her own (what would Jones gain when it is most likely that she's in the risky of getting sued for harassment?). I hate pushy people too, but it depends on pushy for what reasons.

    I believe her intention is to show the young lady how she can live a more meaningful and optimistic life (hence she "promoted" Christianity) even when the young lady is badly ill, rather than miserably holding on to the bad news of death.
    Last edited by remember_Cedric; 12-24-09 at 07:55 AM.
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    Senior Member jiang bao's Avatar
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    I don’t think the religious lady deserves to be fired just for that unless she was REALLY persistent in praying with the sick girl despite numerous requests from the family not to or if she has offered unsolicited religious guidance several times before.

    She did overstep her bounds though. I wonder if she actually did teach any math or if she was more interested in making the girl pray. I mean I don’t go around telling the rightwing folks I have to talk to on a regular basis for my job about why social equality is the moral thing to pursue. So why should some religious person be allowed to do that if the other person never requested it and doesn’t want to hear about it, especially when the lady’s supposed to be doing her job as a math teacher.

    Best of the luck to the girl. I hope she recovers.
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    Senior Member GuGu's Avatar
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    i'm sure she tried it more than once. if the parents asked her to stop and she didn't, then yes, she deserves to be sacked. i'm a christian but i would never ask others to believe in what i believe in. if i wanted to pray for her i would do it on my own time, not during my work hour. and i would most certainly make sure first of all if they are religious and if so what they are. the way mrs jones presented herself and her belief, i believe was in an inappropriate way. she spoke to the child about death and heaven, told them her 'miracle' story then asked them to pray with her, had she asked at the beginning if they wanted to listen to her i'm sure this wouldn't happen. you have freedom of speech, but you should also be smart enough to know who your audiences are. 'preaching' to a sick little child like that is borderline brainwashing. the child i'm sure was beyond scared of the deadly disease and here comes this lady offering her a route to 'heaven'.

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    Senior Member Trinie's Avatar
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    One of my biggest pet peeves are people who try to impose their religious beliefs on others. Which is why I can't stand it when some Christians always try to to convert me and say that their religion is the best. Can't they understand and realize that there are other religions in the world and that others have different beliefs??? In fact, there are also people who don't believe in any religion at all.. I once had a teacher like that but luckily she was not as bad...
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    Senior Member Guo Xiang's Avatar
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    the child i'm sure was beyond scared of the deadly disease and here comes this lady offering her a route to 'heaven'.
    Exactly. Also, assuming the child has no death wish, she would not be keen to go to heaven, yet.

    People react different to the "heaven" thingy too. For some, it is a comfort to know their deceased friends or kin or in a good place. But for others, they simply do not need to be reminded of the pain of loss they are already going through.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuGu View Post
    i'm sure she tried it more than once. if the parents asked her to stop and she didn't, then yes, she deserves to be sacked.
    According to one of the articles, she tried many many times despite the parents of the sick girl asked her not to.

    'preaching' to a sick little child like that is borderline brainwashing. the child i'm sure was beyond scared of the deadly disease and here comes this lady offering her a route to 'heaven'.
    Agree.

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    Senior Member remember_Cedric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuGu View Post
    i'm a christian but i would never ask others to believe in what i believe in.
    You are, Gugu? I'm semi-Christian.

    i would most certainly make sure first of all if they are religious and if so what they are.
    But, isn't the deal about reaching out to non-religious people?

    The thing is, it's now or never. No?

    _____________________________________

    BTW, my lecturer who is a physio-therapist, shared this story with our class: During his trainee days as a Physio-therapist, he was assigned this old lady as his patient. Her neck is bandaged up and her condition over all is very bad.

    She's very moody and insist to see her grandson right away. She moves around which she is not allowed to. So, my lecturer nicely told her "Auntie, please don't move around for now or it will worsen your condition. Let me assess your condition and see how I can help you." She refused and continue to move around, and rumbling away.

    So, another senior PT came in (to the rescue). He looked at her sternly and told her this sharply, "Ok auntie, if you want live, you stop moving! If you want to die, continue to move like that!". The old lady immediately stopped. Now, go figure!
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    Senior Member Trinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by remember_Cedric View Post
    You are, Gugu? I'm semi-Christian.



    But, isn't the deal about reaching out to non-religious people?

    The thing is, it's now or never. No?

    _____________________________________

    BTW, my lecturer who is a physio-therapist, shared this story with our class: During his trainee days as a Physio-therapist, he was assigned this old lady as his patient. Her neck is bandaged up and her condition over all is very bad.

    She's very moody and insist to see her grandson right away. She moves around which she is not allowed to. So, my lecturer nicely told her "Auntie, please don't move around for now or it will worsen your condition. Let me assess your condition and see how I can help you." She refused and continue to move around, and rumbling away.

    So, another senior PT came in (to the rescue). He looked at her sternly and told her this sharply, "Ok auntie, if you want live, you stop moving! If you want to die, continue to move like that!". The old lady immediately stopped. Now, go figure!
    Your story really reminds me of this one story that my brother said he heard on the news. It was something about either mormons or was it jehovah's witness worshippers. This one person had to get a blood transfusion or else they would die. However,they said that their religion did not allow it so they did not get it and died as a result. IF they had gotten the blood transfusion they would have lived. Gosh, the extent that some people go through just to worship a religion..... sigh...
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    Senior Member remember_Cedric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinie View Post
    Your story really reminds me of this one story that my brother said he heard on the news. It was something about either mormons or was it jehovah's witness worshippers. This one person had to get a blood transfusion or else they would die. However,they said that their religion did not allow it so they did not get it and died as a result. IF they had gotten the blood transfusion they would have lived. Gosh, the extent that some people go through just to worship a religion..... sigh...
    Errr,,,, ok, those mormons and jehovah's witness worshippers are cults. I'm uncertain why they are distinct as cults exactly but I vaguely understand it's their way of practice (odd as it can be, perhaps just like one raised in your post). And, my intention has nothing to do with "the extent that some people go through just to worship a religion" neither does it have any effect to your part of moral story too.
    Last edited by remember_Cedric; 12-25-09 at 11:28 PM.
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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by remember_Cedric View Post
    Christian take opportunity to reach out.
    In plain English, we call it "preying on the weak".
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

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    Senior Member remember_Cedric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide View Post
    In plain English, we call it "preying on the weak".
    No, not in plain English. Rather, from the pessimistic point of view. On contrary, the optimistic point of view, it's called "helping the needys".
    What can I say? I'm still standing! No weapon against me shall prosper! I am more than a conqueror!!!

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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    You're not helping anyone by trying to convert them to your religion in their moments of weakness.

    Helping: nursing them, feeding them, giving them clothes.

    Preying: converting them to your belief.
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

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    Senior Member remember_Cedric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide View Post
    You're not helping anyone by trying to convert them to your religion in their moments of weakness.

    Helping: nursing them, feeding them, giving them clothes.

    Preying: converting them to your belief.
    By using the word 'helping', Christianity includes 'saving the needy's soul' -and the 'deal' is, believers go to heaven. So rightfully, it isn't a believer's wish to see someone going to hell. Tell me, what other good do they gain by converting people to their religion? - Someone gain their membership? I don't think so.

    Of course, some Christians do these too: nursing them, feeding them, giving them clothes. And certainly, there are some out there who thinks "nursing them, feeding them, giving them clothes" is part of the preying plot. Now, that's beyond me.
    What can I say? I'm still standing! No weapon against me shall prosper! I am more than a conqueror!!!

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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by remember_Cedric View Post
    By using the word 'helping', Christianity includes 'saving the needy's soul' -and the 'deal' is, believers go to heaven. So rightfully, it isn't a believer's wish to see someone going to hell.
    It's the very definition of imposing your fairy tale on others. It's also insulting to think of those who don't follow your religion as "needy".

    Ever heard of "Jesus, please save me from your followers!"?

    Tell me, what other good do they gain by converting people to their religion? - Someone gain their membership? I don't think so.
    - Social validation for their belief (this is a strong drive for human beings in pretty much everything)
    - Strength in numbers (various benefits, most of all: political pull, tax exemption)

    Of course, some Christians do these too: nursing them, feeding them, giving them clothes. And certainly, there are some out there who thinks "nursing them, feeding them, giving them clothes" is part of the preying plot. Now, that's beyond me.
    Beyond you, but not me. When you do nice things to suffering people as a part of an agenda to convert them to your belief, that's still preying on them.

    If your religion appeals to other people, they will come to you. Stop hunting them down!

    If your action does come from kindness of the heart and not the agenda of trying to get a new follower, you'll help them without even mentioning your religion.
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide View Post
    It's the very definition of imposing your fairy tale on others. It's also insulting to think of those who don't follow your religion as "needy".

    Ever heard of "Jesus, please save me from your followers!"?

    - Social validation for their belief (this is a strong drive for human beings in pretty much everything)
    - Strength in numbers (various benefits, most of all: political pull, tax exemption)

    Beyond you, but not me. When you do nice things to suffering people as a part of an agenda to convert them to your belief, that's still preying on them.

    If your religion appeals to other people, they will come to you. Stop hunting them down!

    If your action does come from kindness of the heart and not the agenda of trying to get a new follower, you'll help them without even mentioning your religion.
    Candide, couldn't better worded.
    The church only care about their image, not the weak and poor. They has been covering up for their child molester/rapist priests and do everything they can to shut the victims up.

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    Senior Member remember_Cedric's Avatar
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    Have you noticed and wondered how come you don't read as many "You" and "I" in my post (as they are, in your post)? Food for thought, for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Candide View Post
    It's the very definition of imposing your fairy tale on others. It's also insulting to think of those who don't follow your religion as "needy".
    Instead of defending, I wish I could be motivated enough to do what other Christians did - reach out. No, I never, not at all, not even now. I sit my arse back and wait for people to come to me. But the thing is, people prefer to run away (just like what I used to do). So Christians go to them.

    How can you call it "Fairy tale" when you don't even give someone (Christian) a chance to share their testimony with you? Or, have you given them a chance? Openheartedly, I meant. What harm could there be? It's like going to the dentist and extract a tooth. If you're going to hand on to that resistance, it's going to hurt more.

    Ever heard of "Jesus, please save me from your followers!"?
    Countless times. Nearly everyone before convert thinks or says that. Including me!

    When I attended a sermon (still with a heart of resistence), I even pray for this "Dear heavenly father, if you're there, please make me invisible. Thank you." when I was sitting under the nose of the Man of God - Pastor because he was picking on people and throwing questions at them. Guess what? Nearly everyone answered a question, except me. No, I didn't turn invisible FYI.

    - Social validation for their belief (this is a strong drive for human beings in pretty much everything)
    - Strength in numbers (various benefits, most of all: political pull, tax exemption)
    I can't deny that some dodgy characters out there would do hanky-panky in the name of Christianity.

    Well, people can do that with any religion. Why is it only Christians getting that sort of sh1t? Pfftttt....

    Part of what a Christian should obey is Evangelism, FYI.

    Beyond you, but not me. When you do nice things to suffering people as a part of an agenda to convert them to your belief, that's still preying on them.
    Too much of negative of view isn't healthy, try to view it as a coin with two sides - the dark and the light. Too much of "you" and "I" is not healthy too, start seeing human race as one - we.

    When one is Christian, one can naturally be mistaken as having an agenda to convert another into their belief, especially this is the first idea that would come about rather than recognising the helping heart.

    If your religion appeals to other people, they will come to you. Stop hunting them down!
    When you have a resistence against something, you run away. No?

    If your action does come from kindness of the heart and not the agenda of trying to get a new follower, you'll help them without even mentioning your religion.
    Well, unfortunately most cases out there appear to be against Christianity, which makes the devil happy because everyone is falling into his trap. I guess, in some cases, like the Christian teacher, her passion is probably to help the kid and save her in the shortest time. Especially, if the kid has only remaining days/months/years to live, the teacher probably wants her to live it meaningfully, with minimal sufferings that explains why she shares stories and eventually lead to accusation "promoting her religion".

    Like I said, if not clear enough, the goal for every Christians is to see someone be saved, and by save, it means seeing their soul going to heaven.

    BTW, I spent more time helping animals too. Without even a whizz of thought to convert them.
    Last edited by remember_Cedric; 12-26-09 at 03:09 AM.
    What can I say? I'm still standing! No weapon against me shall prosper! I am more than a conqueror!!!

    I don't care to sit by the window on an airplane. If I can't control it, why look?

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    Senior Member remember_Cedric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    Candide, couldn't better worded.
    The church only care about their image, not the weak and poor. They has been covering up for their child molester/rapist priests and do everything they can to shut the victims up.
    You, TC, singleminded hardcore aethist.... I'll effectively keep you in prayers (not just mine but cellgroup) that the world will be a better place, you'll find a gf who is a complete virgin with a pretty face but incapable in anything else and you'll not meet a female rapist in any fine day. Merry holy Christmas!
    Last edited by remember_Cedric; 12-26-09 at 03:35 AM.
    What can I say? I'm still standing! No weapon against me shall prosper! I am more than a conqueror!!!

    I don't care to sit by the window on an airplane. If I can't control it, why look?

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