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Thread: "Evil" Martial Arts in Wuxia Novels?

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    Senior Member goodrick's Avatar
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    Default "Evil" Martial Arts in Wuxia Novels?

    A lot of times in many of Jin Yong's novels, there were martial arts that were considered "evil" or so called evil. For example Sunflower Manual (KHBD) which was destroyed by Ren Woxing, Bixie Jianfa, Xi Xing Da Fa, White Bone Claws of Jiu Yin Zhen Jing, Poisonous Spider techniques used by Yin Li in HSDS and even Hama Gong to some extend.

    So the question is, can martial arts really be "evil" in nature? Or is it the practioner that makes it evil?

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    Senior Member Sentry's Avatar
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    I think they are just unorthodox and vicious more than anything else...I mean the yellow robed lady in HSDS did use the white bone claws, yet she wasn't evil, same with Yang Guo learning the toad stance. The martial art isn't evil, depends on who's practicing it.

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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    Oh come on now. I know that we're in the age where Grey is the in thing, but it's pretty black/white that some of those martial arts are evil.

    Xi Xing Da Fa: sucking other people's internal energy to use as your own, and practitioners can't even generate their own.

    White Bone Claws: I don't care how good you look while doing it, but creating five holes on another person's head is an evil move. You think that Yellow Robed B!tch isn't the same as ZZR just because she danced the moves to fancy music?

    Poisoned Spider: with all that poisons going to one's body, plus how horribly it kills the victim... no argument.

    ###

    Some are legitimately up for debate like: QHBD and HMG. The former is simply fvcked up (not the same as evil) and the latter is plain weird.
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

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    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide View Post
    White Bone Claws: I don't care how good you look while doing it, but creating five holes on another person's head is an evil move. You think that Yellow Robed B!tch isn't the same as ZZR just because she danced the moves to fancy music?
    I don't know if it's as simple as that...I mean, Wudang had a set of tiger claws that had moves meant to castrate a guy, which seems more evil to me than just poking holes in people (what's the moral difference between doing that and stabbing them normally, anyhow?).

    I think when it comes to most evil/unorthodox techniques (which really come to the same character in Chinese), it's just a question of viciousness/underhandedness/deceptiveness as well as not originating from an 'orthodox' base of martial arts. The yellow robed girl was specifically described by bystanders watching her fight with ZZR as using techniques which were 'orthodox' and 'upright', in comparison to ZZR's 'evil' and 'unorthodox' techniques, even though they were very similar (presumably because the yellow robed girl was using 9 Ying Divine Claws, instead of White Bone Claws?).

    There are some 'demonic' martial arts which do appear to affect the practitioner's mind (such as the Holy Fire Commandment martial arts Zhang Wuji learned), which can legitimately be called 'evil'.
    Last edited by Ren Wo Xing; 01-02-10 at 01:58 AM.
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    I thought the Wudang claws just hit some vital areas that had a decent chance of preventing someone from reproducing. They didn't create it to castrate someone, it just happened to be that way. I wasn't quite sure if some of the moves Yu Lianzhou invented happened to be grabbing a guys balls and twist them off because it was the most efficient and deadly...

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    Senior Member Extremer88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodrick View Post
    So the question is, can martial arts really be "evil" in nature? Or is it the practioner that makes it evil?
    The original purpose of Martial Arts is to strengthen a person's body and protect the weak. You can ask any Shaolin monk in Jin Yong novels, and they would probably answer the same.

    If a martial arts goes against
    a) the purpose of strengthing a person's body and to protect the weak
    b) harms a practitioner's body (certain parts)(whether its short-term or long-term) even though it makes him/her powerful,
    then it can be considered evil.

    Some notable examples are Kuihua Baodian, Yin Li's Thousand-Spider Palms and the martial arts that Tianshan Tonglao practised.

    However, most of the time martial arts that come from the so-called "demon"/"unorthodox" sects, are often considered evil by the so-called "orthodox" schools.
    ..ext88

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    Senior Member goodrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extremer88 View Post
    If a martial arts goes against
    a) the purpose of strengthing a person's body and to protect the weak
    So are you basically saying that any martial arts that is practised by a bad person who has no intentions of protecting the weak is an evil martial arts form?

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    Default evil or not

    Its not that JY means the martial arts is evil. JY means that its unorthodox or more vicious like its a form of martial arts that incorporate tricks to it like poison, traps, etc. IF you've also noticed, its not just the vicious types of martial arts that are labeled unorthodox in his novels, its also the martial arts that are new and "strange" to the so called "orthodox" clans, sects, cults, etc.. The only thing that makes the martial arts evil in JY's novels are the practitioners of the martial arts itself.

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    I think Wuxia is a pretty good carciature of real life, which is a pile of contradictions that are convenient to those that set the rules.

    Evil in martial arts? ***** please. Fighting techniques are a tool of war, designed to stop someone in the most efficient way possible. You use swords, swords are by principle sharpened to a murderous edge.

    Evil martial arts are just stuff with more balls than most people can handle. Like land mines, booby traps, nuclear bombs and biological warfare. Reality is harsh and doesn't care. People are soft and sentimental.

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    Senior Member goodrick's Avatar
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    Not sure I understand

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    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
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    orthodox martial arts are the type that are created for contesting skills, defeating the opponents moves. unorthodox moves focusing on underhanded means to kill or are extremely vicious. poisons are unorthodox. even some weird weapons, but mainly what ever skill is different from the regular type that is commonly known. unorthodox and evil might not be the same.
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