Huang Rong Martial Arts question

[Ken Cheng]

If brains were equal to martial arts, then Huang Yaoshi and Yang Guo should be double as powerful than the others cuz they definitely had the martial arts and super talented brains as well.

Except it rarely works that way. Because East Heretic Wong Yerk See and the post-Heavy Iron Sword Yeung Gor were generally able to overwhelm their enemies with martial arts, they seldom put their innate cleverness to use. Things that aren't used don't disappear, but they do grow dull from disuse...

Wong Yung, on the other hand, relied on her brains *over* her martial arts, so I think her "active intelligence" might be able trump her father and Yeung Gor's "latent intelligence."

[goodrick]

Wong Yung, on the other hand, relied on her brains *over* her martial arts, so I think her "active intelligence" might be able trump her father and Yeung Gor's "latent intelligence."

Even if we say just for the sake of discussion that HR was smarter than HYS and YG, was her smartness and intelligence so superior to these two greats?? Let us not forget that HYS was an extremely intelligent and intellectual human being who created so many superior martial arts forms like The Divine Finger Flick, Jade Flute Swordplay, etc, various stone formations and other formations and mazes, prowess in medicine and arts. I mean the list is just relentless.

Also can Huang Rongs "active intelligence" trump her fathers and YGs martial arts prowess? I think not!

[Ken Cheng]

Also can Huang Rongs "active intelligence" trump her fathers and YGs martial arts prowess? I think not!

It got her and her allies out of trouble with the likes of Au Yeung Fung, Kau Cheen Yan, the Golden Wheel Monk for years and years, so she must have had something going for her.

Moreover, for all their martial arts accomplishments, Wong Yerk See and Yeung Gor never bagged anything as big as breaking through the fortresses at Samarkand or holding the Mongolian armies at bay at Seung Yeung for nearly fifty years.

[goodrick]

Moreover, for all their martial arts accomplishments, Wong Yerk See and Yeung Gor never bagged anything as big as breaking through the fortresses at Samarkand or holding the Mongolian armies at bay at Seung Yeung for nearly fifty years.

I do agree that breaking through the fortress at Samarkand and defence of Xiangyang are big accomplishments, although it is debatable if they can strictly be classified under martial arts accomplishments. Also HR should not get the complete credit for these feats. Guo Jing gets just as much credit (if not more) for these accomplishments.

[Ken Cheng]

I do agree that breaking through the fortress at Samarkand and defence of Xiangyang are big accomplishments, although it is debatable if they can strictly be classified under martial arts accomplishments. Also HR should not get the complete credit for these feats. Guo Jing gets just as much credit (if not more) for these accomplishments.

Gwok Jing supplied the morale and, when the situation called for it, the excellent martial arts skills that could pull out an improbable victory in the clutch. Still, warfare is a thinking game, and I'm pretty sure Gwok Jing wasn't doing the bulk of the thinking in the Samarkand and Seung Yeung operations.

[goodrick]

Gwok Jing supplied the morale and, when the situation called for it, the excellent martial arts skills that could pull out an improbable victory in the clutch. Still, warfare is a thinking game, and I'm pretty sure Gwok Jing wasn't doing the bulk of the thinking in the Samarkand and Seung Yeung operations.

Fair enough! I'm glad we agree that this is a joint accomplishment and both GJ and HR should get credit for it.

[yittz]

I think what Ken is getting at is HR can outwit HYS and YG. I think HR is smarter than YG regardless. HR will be able to outsmart HYS, because HYS will not resort to it against opponents of HR's calibre in martial arts.

HYS never strike me as someone who relied on cunning. It might have been used early in his martial arts days. But once he was at great level, he was too proud. Palming/flicking the enemy was probably less effort/time than tricking the enemy. He did show cunningness in cheating ZBT out of 9YZJ though.

[SkyWalker]

If we're talking purely martial arts feats, then no, HR never really accomplished anything "great". For all the time that we saw her in LOCH, she relied mostly on her wits to get her out of trouble or to get what she wanted. Fighting was never her forte. If we were to list her "brains" accomplishments, I'm sure we can compile a pretty long list.

-She persuaded/bribed the lazy H7G with her great cooking skills to accept GJ as his disciple. If it wasn't for her, there wouldn't be a Guo Hero.

-She tricked & crippled OYK and persuaded OYF not to harm her sifu and GJ while they were stranded on that island.

-Facing her worst enemies head on (YH & OYF), she was able to make them admitted to the murders of the 7 Freaks thereby clearing her father's name, and accidentally caused YH's death in the process.

-She was able to escape from the mighty OYF's hand and evaded his capture for 6 months.

-With her help, GJ was able to capture OYF three times! I mean, OYF would've been dead if GJ wasn't so keen on keeping his promises.

-She came up with a plan to break through the fortress at Samarkand. I think she should get the bulk of the credit here b/c without her brilliant plan, who knows how long it could take.

-And probably the greatest feast attributed to her brains power would have to be the defense of Xiangyang. Without her brilliant mind, I don't think GJ would've held the wall for as long as they did. Not to mention that she was the leader of the beggar clan. She lent GJ her brains and assisted with man power as well.

So you could see that HR's main weapon is and always will be her mind (and mouth). Even when she had to fight, she would always utilize her brains power. Even though she doesn't measure up to the Greats or GJ/YG or even XLN, I would never bet against her in a fight b/c I think she's that smart!

[goodrick]

If we're talking purely martial arts feats, then no, HR never really accomplished anything "great".

Thanks, I think thats the confession some of the posters were looking for.

[goodrick]

Did Huang Rong master Jiu Yin Zhen Jing along with Guo Jing or was it just GJ who had mastered the techniques?

I think a small part of my original question still remains unanswered. Did HR also master the complete Jiu Yin Zhen Jing along with GJ or was it GJ alone that mastered the complete JYZJ? Thanks

[kyss of the sword]

there's mastering a skill, then taking the skill to the ultimate level. huang rong mastered the full 9yin zhenjing but she did not reach the same level of the greats, she was a level below. YG did not learn the full 9yin but he learnt the main points and reached the ultimate level in what he learnt.

[goodrick]

there's mastering a skill, then taking the skill to the ultimate level. huang rong mastered the full 9yin zhenjing but she did not reach the same level of the greats, she was a level below. YG did not learn the full 9yin but he learnt the main points and reached the ultimate level in what he learnt.

Makes sense. Thank you

[kyss of the sword]

a another point to add, HR thought if YG had followed her around for a year and mastered dog beating skill and 9yin zhenjing, he would be invincible. HR should be perfectly capable of passing on 9yin zhenjing and she also wrote the shortcut method of 9yin in HSDS that was with the orthodox full version.

also, other experts of the top sects may not have reached great level but they would have mastered the skills and could teach disciples who could surpress them and reach great level even if they couldn't. like XF was far more powerful then his shaolin teacher who was about the level of the abbot.