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How Powerful is Yuan Chengzhi?
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Thread: How Powerful is Yuan Chengzhi?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Sentry's Avatar
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    Default How Powerful is Yuan Chengzhi?

    Like the title says, I'd like to get a better understanding of the martial arts level of Yuan Chengzhi (Sword Stained with Royal Blood) with his golden snake sword... How is he compared to mid/top tier fighters from other Jin Yong novels...?

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    He had some crazy feats in the novel if I remembered right, leaping wise. Purely speaking martial arts wise, he would be around his teacher and the princess turned nun in DOMD who also happens to be his former lover.

    He'd be better than most fighters from novels that take place after BXJ, like Hu Fei etc. However he wouldn't hold a candle against even mid tiers from SPW like XWT, let alone characters from the Condors trilogy or DGSD.

    My gripe with Yuan Chengzhi is primarily that when he left his secluded mountain, he was already pretty much Godlike. That only increased after he learned the Golden Snake Martial arts. His martial brothers, who were his seniors couldn;t even come close to him, his only worthwhile nemesis only seemed to be slightly above him in their multiple encounters.

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    My gripe with Yuan Chengzhi is primarily that when he left his secluded mountain, he was already pretty much Godlike.
    Yes, he was made too powerful too early. He also didn't suffer the Zhang Wuji syndrome of sucking at fighting. Chengzhi was a naturally gifted fighter, so once he learned the best martial arts, he soared to (near) the peak of martial arts within the first 2-3 chapters of the book.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiang Yu View Post
    His martial brothers, who were his seniors couldn;t even come close to him
    Actually, his martial brothers were close to him in martial arts. Even if Yuan Chengzhi used all his skills, including the weird Golden Snake martial arts and Priest Musang's lightness skills, he would have trouble defeating Huang Zheng and Guo Xinshu.

    In chapter 10 when Chengzhi first fought Guo Xinshu, their teacher Mu Renqing commented that Yuan Chengzhi was still far behind Gui Xinshu in purity of martial arts.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    Actually, his martial brothers were close to him in martial arts. Even if Yuan Chengzhi used all his skills, including the weird Golden Snake martial arts and Priest Musang's lightness skills, he would have trouble defeating Huang Zheng and Guo Xinshu.

    In chapter 10 when Chengzhi first fought Guo Xinshu, their teacher Mu Renqing commented that Yuan Chengzhi was still far behind Gui Xinshu in purity of martial arts.
    Ah thanks for the correction, I thought the only reason Gui Xinshu was performing so well, was because he was attacking with such fierceness that it seemed like he had intentions to really hurt Yuan Chengzhi whereas Yuan Chengzi, despite taking it fairly easy, still stood his ground without too much effort?

    OT: your sig is hilarious man. TC, bringing smiles to SPCnet since the dawn of time.

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    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    I reckon its Gui Xinshu then YCZ then Huang Zhen. YCZ holding on for 1000 stances with GXS was pretty impressive on YCZ's part. End of novel, he probably closed the gap even more. HZ said his martial arts is lower than his martial brothers.

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    Senior Member wang23's Avatar
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    Whatever happened to Yuan after Sword Stained With Royal Blood? Does anybody know if he was mentioned in Duke of Mount Deer?

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    He was mentioned in DOMD as having retired from the world, his whereabouts unknown.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    He was mentioned in DOMD as having retired from the world, his whereabouts unknown.
    Did he settle down with Wen Qing Qing??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sentry View Post
    Like the title says, I'd like to get a better understanding of the martial arts level of Yuan Chengzhi (Sword Stained with Royal Blood) with his golden snake sword... How is he compared to mid/top tier fighters from other Jin Yong novels...?
    I'll put him around Post Jinlun Advice/Hero Sword Yang Guo👲👲

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    Quote Originally Posted by flamer View Post
    I reckon its Gui Xinshu then YCZ then Huang Zhen. YCZ holding on for 1000 stances with GXS was pretty impressive on YCZ's part. End of novel, he probably closed the gap even more. HZ said his martial arts is lower than his martial brothers.
    If YCZ is still around DOMD and if he helps GXS, they probably able to assassinate Kangxi.

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    Yuan Cheng Zhi feels very powerful in BXJ. He's more of a pacifist and wants to solve things peacefully so he's never in a state of mind where he wants a person dead at all costs until his last fight with Yu Zhen Zi, whom he beat quite handily.

    He has a ridiculously large repertoire of moves (everything from Hua Shan, Golden Snake Manual, and all of Musang's Iron Sword Clan's projectile and movement skills). He seems to be able to master everything within a short amount of time and can combine elements of all of his knowledge in application (when he fought Gui ErNiang and Gui Xinshu for the first time, he combined the best of Hua Shan movement skills, Golden Snake movements and Shen Xing Bai Bian). The result was something that scared Gui Xinshu and he immediately attacked YCZ because he was worried about his wife's safety.

    In the 1000-exchange duel between YCZ and GXS, GXS was gaining a very very slight advantage as time went on when they both used Hua Shan fists. Then quickly out of nowhere YCZ changed his form into a form of Golden Snake Fist and GXS had no idea how to fight it since it was weird and deadly. YCZ then handicapped himself and took out all the moves meant for killing blows and "deadlier" moves (sounded like they're eye gouges, groin kicks, throat strikes or something :P) and just used weird stuff to attack GXS. GXS would have probably lost then if YCZ threw everything at him like his life was dependent on it. At that time, one of GXS's disciples (Sun Zhong Jun) started attacking Qing Qing and got YCZ desperate. YCZ then started turning things up and thought to himself that "if Qing Qing dies, even though you are my martial brother, I will kill you!". I wouldn't want to think what would have happened if Qing Qing died and YCZ decides to use everything he knows to kill GXS. I don't like GXS's chances there. When things were settled since Musang and Mu Renqing shows up, YCZ decided to let GXS win the exchange and planned a way to make Hua Shan skills look good while purposely losing on a Golden Snake Fist move. When he used a weird form, GXS pulled back for full defense, then YCZ purposely gave GXS a chance and GXS took the strike and the fight was over. In that fight if I was a betting man for a life and death exchange, I'd put all my money on YCZ. He just simply knows way too much that GXS doesn't know.

    Mu Renqing for not having really fought seriously before falls into the Z3F category for me. He's hyped by the author and by most readers so I'll put him in a high place, but in a life / death duel against YCZ, I'm not sure. It's hard to say he will for sure win since he is pretty old. It's not a stretch that YCZ is the #1 fighter in this book.

    Compared to novels with very powerful people, YCZ's overall power and strength seems a bit less his older brothers due to his age but he is way smarter and way more skilled overall. He hasn't shown amazing displays of power but he's been super confident in his fights and has been shown to be very intelligent. L45-50 may be fitting. I can see him doing very well against Wei Yi Xiao, a pre-dual sword XLN and Purple Dragon. I can't see him beating Golden Lion nor White Eagle reliably since they can just bully him with their strength but he may not be far off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heromyst View Post
    Yuan Cheng Zhi feels very powerful in BXJ. He's more of a pacifist and wants to solve things peacefully so he's never in a state of mind where he wants a person dead at all costs until his last fight with Yu Zhen Zi, whom he beat quite handily.

    He has a ridiculously large repertoire of moves (everything from Hua Shan, Golden Snake Manual, and all of Musang's Iron Sword Clan's projectile and movement skills). He seems to be able to master everything within a short amount of time and can combine elements of all of his knowledge in application (when he fought Gui ErNiang and Gui Xinshu for the first time, he combined the best of Hua Shan movement skills, Golden Snake movements and Shen Xing Bai Bian). The result was something that scared Gui Xinshu and he immediately attacked YCZ because he was worried about his wife's safety.

    In the 1000-exchange duel between YCZ and GXS, GXS was gaining a very very slight advantage as time went on when they both used Hua Shan fists. Then quickly out of nowhere YCZ changed his form into a form of Golden Snake Fist and GXS had no idea how to fight it since it was weird and deadly. YCZ then handicapped himself and took out all the moves meant for killing blows and "deadlier" moves (sounded like they're eye gouges, groin kicks, throat strikes or something :P) and just used weird stuff to attack GXS. GXS would have probably lost then if YCZ threw everything at him like his life was dependent on it. At that time, one of GXS's disciples (Sun Zhong Jun) started attacking Qing Qing and got YCZ desperate. YCZ then started turning things up and thought to himself that "if Qing Qing dies, even though you are my martial brother, I will kill you!". I wouldn't want to think what would have happened if Qing Qing died and YCZ decides to use everything he knows to kill GXS. I don't like GXS's chances there. When things were settled since Musang and Mu Renqing shows up, YCZ decided to let GXS win the exchange and planned a way to make Hua Shan skills look good while purposely losing on a Golden Snake Fist move. When he used a weird form, GXS pulled back for full defense, then YCZ purposely gave GXS a chance and GXS took the strike and the fight was over. In that fight if I was a betting man for a life and death exchange, I'd put all my money on YCZ. He just simply knows way too much that GXS doesn't know.

    Mu Renqing for not having really fought seriously before falls into the Z3F category for me. He's hyped by the author and by most readers so I'll put him in a high place, but in a life / death duel against YCZ, I'm not sure. It's hard to say he will for sure win since he is pretty old. It's not a stretch that YCZ is the #1 fighter in this book.

    Compared to novels with very powerful people, YCZ's overall power and strength seems a bit less his older brothers due to his age but he is way smarter and way more skilled overall. He hasn't shown amazing displays of power but he's been super confident in his fights and has been shown to be very intelligent. L45-50 may be fitting. I can see him doing very well against Wei Yi Xiao, a pre-dual sword XLN and Purple Dragon. I can't see him beating Golden Lion nor White Eagle reliably since they can just bully him with their strength but he may not be far off.
    Agree with Yu but Lv 45 too high for him since Yu Lianzhou (2nd Wudang Hero) "only" at Lv 46..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heromyst View Post
    Yuan Cheng Zhi feels very powerful in BXJ. He's more of a pacifist and wants to solve things peacefully so he's never in a state of mind where he wants a person dead at all costs until his last fight with Yu Zhen Zi, whom he beat quite handily.

    He has a ridiculously large repertoire of moves (everything from Hua Shan, Golden Snake Manual, and all of Musang's Iron Sword Clan's projectile and movement skills). He seems to be able to master everything within a short amount of time and can combine elements of all of his knowledge in application (when he fought Gui ErNiang and Gui Xinshu for the first time, he combined the best of Hua Shan movement skills, Golden Snake movements and Shen Xing Bai Bian). The result was something that scared Gui Xinshu and he immediately attacked YCZ because he was worried about his wife's safety.

    In the 1000-exchange duel between YCZ and GXS, GXS was gaining a very very slight advantage as time went on when they both used Hua Shan fists. Then quickly out of nowhere YCZ changed his form into a form of Golden Snake Fist and GXS had no idea how to fight it since it was weird and deadly. YCZ then handicapped himself and took out all the moves meant for killing blows and "deadlier" moves (sounded like they're eye gouges, groin kicks, throat strikes or something :P) and just used weird stuff to attack GXS. GXS would have probably lost then if YCZ threw everything at him like his life was dependent on it. At that time, one of GXS's disciples (Sun Zhong Jun) started attacking Qing Qing and got YCZ desperate. YCZ then started turning things up and thought to himself that "if Qing Qing dies, even though you are my martial brother, I will kill you!". I wouldn't want to think what would have happened if Qing Qing died and YCZ decides to use everything he knows to kill GXS. I don't like GXS's chances there. When things were settled since Musang and Mu Renqing shows up, YCZ decided to let GXS win the exchange and planned a way to make Hua Shan skills look good while purposely losing on a Golden Snake Fist move. When he used a weird form, GXS pulled back for full defense, then YCZ purposely gave GXS a chance and GXS took the strike and the fight was over. In that fight if I was a betting man for a life and death exchange, I'd put all my money on YCZ. He just simply knows way too much that GXS doesn't know.

    Mu Renqing for not having really fought seriously before falls into the Z3F category for me. He's hyped by the author and by most readers so I'll put him in a high place, but in a life / death duel against YCZ, I'm not sure. It's hard to say he will for sure win since he is pretty old. It's not a stretch that YCZ is the #1 fighter in this book.

    Compared to novels with very powerful people, YCZ's overall power and strength seems a bit less his older brothers due to his age but he is way smarter and way more skilled overall. He hasn't shown amazing displays of power but he's been super confident in his fights and has been shown to be very intelligent. L45-50 may be fitting. I can see him doing very well against Wei Yi Xiao, a pre-dual sword XLN and Purple Dragon. I can't see him beating Golden Lion nor White Eagle reliably since they can just bully him with their strength but he may not be far off.
    so you mean comparing Mu Renqing and YCZ is like comparing ZSF and Zhang Wuji ?

    i dont think Yuan Chengzhi is better than Yuzhenzhi, even though in the novel YCZ beat Yuzhenzhi, thats because he had anti-sword vest , like you said , if they fight for life or death situation and without the anti-sword vest, Yuan Chengzhi would be the one who die first

    of course i dont read the third edition of novel, which i heard that YCZ improve the quality of golden snake swordplay

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    I am definitely not comparing MRQ to Z3F. I'm only comparing the impression I get from them when reading. Both of these share the same similarities with being the undisputed number 1 in the world and receives hype by many characters in the book but they really haven't given the reader that kind of confidence through events or evidence in fights.

    I will find a quote from the book later, the last fight is a fair fight between the 2 and Jin Yong wrapped it up fairly quickly with YCZ having much difficulty I remember. In the middle of the book where Yu Zhen Zhi was beating YCZ, he was also attacked by other people at the same time right?

    Yu LianZhou is a very strong Taiji practicioner but isn't the greatest against weird moves (trouble with ZZR). I can see YCZ having a pretty good chance here. YCZ's martial arts feel very complete. Palm/Fist, sword, movement skills, darts and projectiles, orthodoxed Hua Shan internal, high intelligence. Just my 2 cents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heromyst View Post
    I will find a quote from the book later, the last fight is a fair fight between the 2 and Jin Yong wrapped it up fairly quickly with YCZ having much difficulty I remember. In the middle of the book where Yu Zhen Zhi was beating YCZ, he was also attacked by other people at the same time right?
    yeah , if you dont mind please post all of their fight scenes . even better if you translate it to english (google translate doesnt help much).
    my knowledge is just based on first edition novel (the old one), as no one translate the 2nd and 3rd ed novel to english.

    in the first ed novel, yuzhenzhi only make one appearance, at mt. huashan in the last chapter . at that fight, yuzhenzhi stabbed his sword to YCZ first, luckily YCZ wore anti-sword vest (the one given by priest musang) which saved his life , then YCZ change his fight style to golden snake martial arts and gain upperhand because of the unique and unpredictable movement that Yuzhenzhi never seen before, then YCZ won. so , without that vest, YCZ would die first before he had a time to execute his golden snake stances.

    cmiiw , the 2006 adaptation probably stay faithful to novel, yuzhenzhi made earlier appearance, and he encountered YCZ at least 4 times (at wulin gathering, at Yuzhenzhi's home when Yuzhenzhi fought in nude manner, at palace where the revolt by prince occured, and the last one at mt huashan).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heromyst View Post
    I am definitely not comparing MRQ to Z3F. I'm only comparing the impression I get from them when reading. Both of these share the same similarities with being the undisputed number 1 in the world and receives hype by many characters in the book but they really haven't given the reader that kind of confidence through events or evidence in fights.

    I will find a quote from the book later, the last fight is a fair fight between the 2 and Jin Yong wrapped it up fairly quickly with YCZ having much difficulty I remember. In the middle of the book where Yu Zhen Zhi was beating YCZ, he was also attacked by other people at the same time right?

    Yu LianZhou is a very strong Taiji practicioner but isn't the greatest against weird moves (trouble with ZZR). I can see YCZ having a pretty good chance here. YCZ's martial arts feel very complete. Palm/Fist, sword, movement skills, darts and projectiles, orthodoxed Hua Shan internal, high intelligence. Just my 2 cents.
    Even Wuji getting "trouble" against ZZR it's not due Wuji (and Yu Lianzhou) "overall" skill and inteligent but due the fact that people at this time not "familiar" with 9 Yin White Bone Claw so I don't think YCZ or people in SSWRB can did "better" than Wuji/Yu Lianzhou against ZZR..

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